MS xbox360 launch hype tactics?

[rabidrabbit]

...
In order to get all of them, each shop or chain has to sign an agreement saying that they will sell out of all 20 consoles on the release date (which is December 2 over there). On top of that, the retailers must agree to sell a minimum of 2 games per console.
...
“Microsoft Norway even said them selves that they’re gonna use the ‘Sold Out’ as a marketing strategy to hype the console.”
Full story here (http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/xbox-360-retail-bully-134320.php)

Guess this is pretty standard marketing practise nowadays, though I haven't heard of such blatant "blackmailing" before.

[Phil]

I wonder how many shops will put the "Sold out" tag outside their window if they have stacks of Xbox's waiting to be sold at the back of the store....

[Shifty Geezer]

That doesn't make sense. The retail company make no money selling XB360 hardware. To be held to moving 20 units, include 6 core units that perhpas no-one will want, at a profit of $0 to themselves (ignoring games), at a risk of being punished for a breech of contract if the store doesn't sell all 20...I would just say no. I wouldn't waste my time sellng the system and would cater to the existing millions of current gen gamers. If MS want to sell the hardware they want it in shops. Approaching this in such an antagonistic way seems mindnumbingly dumb and offensive.

[Guden Oden]

I've no idea if this is true or not, but if yes, it seems a classic example of biting the hand that feeds you whilst shooting oneself in the foot at the same time.

There's no need to threaten and bully retailers like this when all they have to do is trust in the system they've built. It can manage to stand on its own just fine anyway, no need for any underhanded tactics to make demand seem greater than it really is, because they're likely to sell out anyway, and people will want to have two games (if not more) to play on it as well.

[rabidrabbit]

So, this kind of tactic would pretty much ensure the headlines:
"XXX sold out on day one, XXX launch the most succesful ever!"
"XXX software tie-in ratio 6:1!! The launch software is selling better than any console!"

If this is indeed true, can we please agree to ban all next gen sales figures topics, please :)

[PARANOiA]

I've no idea if this is true or not, but if yes, it seems a classic example of biting the hand that feeds you whilst shooting oneself in the foot at the same time.

There's no need to threaten and bully retailers like this when all they have to do is trust in the system they've built. It can manage to stand on its own just fine anyway, no need for any underhanded tactics to make demand seem greater than it really is, because they're likely to sell out anyway, and people will want to have two games (if not more) to play on it as well.

Indeed... as a store owner I'd say a big "no". If lots of store owners say no, MS will be screwed.

[Pugger]

Beleive me they haven't said this to major retailers. In fact that website is basically saying that MS is slowing production of the 360 to make sure its a sell out.

[rabidrabbit]

Don't know, but one retailer here is selling six different kind of xbox360 bundles.
From the "Core+King Kong", which is just that, the Core xbox360 with the King Kong game, fora little less than €400
to the "Ultimate Bundle" with 5 games plus pretty much all the accessories for a little less than €900.

There's no xbox360 available without a single game bundled in, although you can buy it with just one game to contradict the article.

Don't know if they're subject to change though.

Edit: Just checked another retailer's online store, and they're selling the Core for just under €300... huh! the King Kong game in that bundle of that another store costs almopst €100!! Must be a good game :)

[TrungGap]

I wouldn't be surprise if MS had some "incentive" for retailers to push as many consoles as they could at launch. Actually, I expected them to do so. I don't know how far these incentives go. But I assume reallocating second shipment to retailers that can move the inventory is the standard practice.

[Carl B]

I don't know why MS has to go all hardball on these retailers - I guess their OS strategy guys got involved! ;) Anyway I would be *shocked* if the 360 didn't sell out (at least in the US) within days. They needn't worry, though I understand their desire to create 'hype.'

Bottom line is 360 marketing is all viral, all the time now it seems.

[Shark Sandwich]

As long as I don't have to buy Fantavision with my Xbox 360 I'm ok.

It seems like this is a common practice, though. Force retailers to buy the low-demand stuff in order to get the high-demand stuff.

[london-boy]

Am i the only one who kinda enjoyed Fantavision? It was kinda gay but it was cool-ish...

I can only imagine what a new Fantavision would look like, even on current gen consoles, with the amount of particles these machines can push... Let alone a next gen version...

[Thegameman]

This is horrible they did the same with EBX when the xbox was launch,if you din't pre-order with time and you pre-order a month or weeks before launch you would have to buy a $500 dollars xbox bundle, you know MS hand was inside cuz,you had to pick and MS first partie game or they would not sell it to you.


I still think EB was also happy with this bundle.


Reason why i pre-order long ago,if you do it that way they can't force a bundle on you.

[Sis]

Where is this "hard ball" tactics? By everything I know, this is very standard procedures, especially given that the Xbox 360 is in a shortage. Why on Earth would MS distribute to stores that won't sell out?

It seems very simple : You only get an allotment if you can use it and they require an attach rate of two games. This is hard ball?

.Sis

[Carl B]

Where is this "hard ball" tactics? By everything I know, this is very standard procedures, especially given that the Xbox 360 is in a shortage. Why on Earth would MS distribute to stores that won't sell out?

It seems very simple : You only get an allotment if you can use it and they require an attach rate of two games. This is hard ball?

.Sis

The games requirement is hardball I feel. As for the 'sistribute to stores that won't sell,' pray tell which stores will not sell out of 360 this year? There will be frantic parents calling every store in their area.

What the 'must sell these consoles' clause really is, is a subtle push for retailers to advertise the hell out of their 360 stocks, thus basically providing MS with a free advertising blitz.

I'm not saying it's not smart - but I am saying having stores sign this is wholly unnecessary.

[Tap In]

sounds to me that they just want to be sure that systems are allocated to stores that NEED the systems to fulfill demand rather than leaving product sitting on a shelf in one area, with a demand in another area.

logical.

[valioso]

The games requirement is hardball I feel. As for the 'sistribute to stores that won't sell,' pray tell which stores will not sell out of 360 this year? There will be frantic parents calling every store in their area.

What the 'must sell these consoles' clause really is, is a subtle push for retailers to advertise the hell out of their 360 stocks, thus basically providing MS with a free advertising blitz.

I'm not saying it's not smart - but I am saying having stores sign this is wholly unnecessary.


some areas have more 1st shipment pre-orders than others.. so I assume they want to fulfill as many pre-order obligations as possible first, instead of having some other stores having machines sitting on the shelves.

[Carl B]

@Tap In and Valioso: Alright I buy that logic, makes sense. I would imagine that just distributing based on demographic data should have been sufficient though. They should have a pretty detailed 'map' of the country showing interest in various geographic regions based on pre-order information alone.

[valioso]

@Tap In and Valioso: Alright I buy that logic, makes sense. I would imagine that just distributing based on demographic data should have been sufficient though. They should have a pretty detailed 'map' of the country showing interest in various geographic regions based on pre-order information alone.

Developers want their cut for making launch titles. Stores don't make any money of hardware sales only software so they also want to make some profit with this whole thing as well. And bundles have always existed, the ps2 had bundles, the xbox had bundles.. is just part of launch.

[Shark Sandwich]

Am i the only one who kinda enjoyed Fantavision? It was kinda gay but it was cool-ish...

I can only imagine what a new Fantavision would look like, even on current gen consoles, with the amount of particles these machines can push... Let alone a next gen version...

To be honest, I've never played Fantavision. I just think of that as the epitome of an "early adopter tax". So many people had to buy that game in order to get their hands on a PS2, despite the fact that nobody was really interested in it.

[Carl B]

Developers want their cut for making launch titles. Stores don't make any money of hardware sales only software so they also want to make some profit with this whole thing as well. And bundles have always existed, the ps2 had bundles, the xbox had bundles.. is just part of launch.

Right, but those bundles were store-driven - as it should be - not manufacturer mandated.

[scooby_dooby]

MS is sure taking a really wierd approach here, a little off topic but have they decided they don't need to run large media campaigns anymore? Or are they trying to get the most bang for their buck?

Launch is 3 weeks away and I haven't seen a single commercial, I expected a marketing blitz and instead...nothing...I mean if they want casual gamers to take a look at their system their gonna have to advertise to them.

Maybe it's an issue of slowing an already overwhelming demand? I dunno, that sounds a little dumb to me.

p.s. watch, i'll get home today and there'll be X360 ads plastered all over the TV stations...

[valioso]

Right, but those bundles were store-driven - as it should be - not manufacturer mandated.

Are there any other reports from other areas? cause as far as we know that may be a Norway only thing? Does it matter who makes the bundles?

[Carl B]

Does it matter who makes the bundles?

Well, it does to me. ;)

The whole PC space is something I take great interest in, so the 'Intel Inside' campaign, Windows-bundling, I just think on a level it slights the consumer, and I don't want the console space infected with a similar disease.

I just think that businesses should let businesses operate as they normally would. EB doesn't need Microsoft telling them how to sell, for example. It's not like EB Games doesn't derive it's own livlihood from selling games, afterall.

[Tap In]

MS is sure taking a really wierd approach here, a little off topic but have they decided they don't need to run large media campaigns anymore? Or are they trying to get the most bang for their buck?

Launch is 3 weeks away and I haven't seen a single commercial, I expected a marketing blitz and instead...nothing...I mean if they want casual gamers to take a look at their system their gonna have to advertise to them.

Maybe it's an issue of slowing an already overwhelming demand? I dunno, that sounds a little dumb to me.

p.s. watch, i'll get home today and there'll be X360 ads plastered all over the TV stations...


I've read reports of commercials at movie theaters out now

[dukmahsik]

I've only seen 1 commercial too, ms marketing stinks

[valioso]

why would they make commercials this far out before christmas, knowing that the first couple of waves of shipments are already sold out.

[Carl B]

You guys are crazy, MS marketing rules. They're going to have stores, word-of-mouth, and news sources do all the advertsing they need. And it's all looking to be a lot more effective than a TV commercial could ever be. I mean, we're almost certain they're going to sell out, right? ;)

So something's going correctly in their campaign.

[valioso]

Well, it does to me. ;)

The whole PC space is something I take great interest in, so the 'Intel Inside' campaign, Windows-bundling, I just think on a level it slights the consumer, and I don't want the console space infected with a similar disease.

I just think that businesses should let businesses operate as they normally would. EB doesn't need Microsoft telling them how to sell, for example. It's not like EB Games doesn't derive it's own livlihood from selling games, afterall.

who's going to buy a console without a game or two anyway? Is not like is forcing you to an specific title, like the ebgames or gamestop online bundles.

[Sis]

The games requirement is hardball I feel. As for the 'sistribute to stores that won't sell,' pray tell which stores will not sell out of 360 this year? There will be frantic parents calling every store in their area.

What the 'must sell these consoles' clause really is, is a subtle push for retailers to advertise the hell out of their 360 stocks, thus basically providing MS with a free advertising blitz.

I'm not saying it's not smart - but I am saying having stores sign this is wholly unnecessary.
But this doesn't seem any different than other products.

1) Given that MS loses money on each hardware unit sold
2) Given that there will be a lack of supply
3) Why is it hard ball to tell retailers, "Hey, you wanna buy our hardware, you have to agree to sell through the units and the games."

This really seems like a non-issue. I'm not going to suggest I know all the ins-and-outs of retail distribution, but from what I understand there's all kinds of control given to disributors by the retailers.

For instance, I heard a rumor that Apple actually dictates what portable music devices CompUSA sells (that is to say, the decision about variety, brands, and quanity is driven by Apple). And apparently, this is fairly standard practice for retailers in general.

.Sis

[mckmas8808]

You guys are crazy, MS marketing rules. They're going to have stores, word-of-mouth, and news sources do all the advertsing they need. And it's all looking to be a lot more effective than a TV commercial could ever be. I mean, we're almost certain they're going to sell out, right? ;)

So something's going correctly in their campaign.

I love the sarcasm. Keep it coming.:lol: Oh boy MS to me still hasn't learned. *shakes head*

[blakjedi]

The games requirement is hardball I feel. As for the 'sistribute to stores that won't sell,' pray tell which stores will not sell out of 360 this year? There will be frantic parents calling every store in their area.

What the 'must sell these consoles' clause really is, is a subtle push for retailers to advertise the hell out of their 360 stocks, thus basically providing MS with a free advertising blitz.

I'm not saying it's not smart - but I am saying having stores sign this is wholly unnecessary.

Really they are just applying lare retail techniques to smaller ones. EB etc does this attach software sell through anyway.

Also if I know that EB could sell 200 360s but i only gave them 100 so that the other 100 could be distributed to small guys (that way they dont complain that I snubbed them)... why wouldnt i want to ensure that I am selling all my consoles plus a few games to boot?

its not hardball its logical business.

[scooby_dooby]

You guys are crazy, MS marketing rules. They're going to have stores, word-of-mouth, and news sources do all the advertsing they need. And it's all looking to be a lot more effective than a TV commercial could ever be. I mean, we're almost certain they're going to sell out, right? ;)

So something's going correctly in their campaign.

I don't know about that. I think a good TV commercial goes a long way.

Halo 2 was going to be a smash hit too, but that didn't stop them from running 2 months worth of Halo 2 commercials.

I think we'll see it kick up here, but I expected it to begin 4-6weeks before launch.

[Sis]

Right, but those bundles were store-driven - as it should be - not manufacturer mandated.
I didn't see anything about a bundle, just that the stores are committing up front to selling 2 games for every console unit sold. Whether one person buys 3 games and another only 1, I don't see the difference.

The bottom line is that the distributor is putting the expectation of sell-through to the retailer. It seems to be very common practice (such as, we'll only give you units if you gaurantee prime shelf space, in-store advertising, etc).

.Sis

[Sis]

why would they make commercials this far out before christmas, knowing that the first couple of waves of shipments are already sold out.QFT since others seem to missing (ignoring?) this.

.Sis

[mckmas8808]

QFT since others seem to missing (ignoring?) this.

.Sis


HYPE!! With the PS3 around the corner I would want to capture the minds on the PS2/Xbox/GC people to upgrade them to next-gen as soon as possible.

[Tap In]

....

I think we'll see it kick up here, but I expected it to begin 4-6weeks before launch.

same thing with the Xbox1 launch. Why promote something that is not on the shelf? Not to mention, there probably will not be many units available for several weeks after launch.

People typically want instant gratification.

We will see it closer to the holiday.

[Carl B]

Wow I've got a lot of posts to reply to! :razz:

Ok listen, they're doing it, it's not not standard, and yes the retailers do it anyway. But I just think it should be retailer controlled anyway, rather than a mandate. What's the penalty if the stores don't meet the requirements? Will store employees turn people who waited all night for one of these down because they only want to purchase one game? I mean maybe these instances are outliers, but still I would just prefer it if the stores were in contol.

That's all - I would prefer it. It seems more 'clean' to me. And Apple is hardly the exemplar of a business partner, so that doesn't go to far with me - though I didn't know they did that at CompUSA; I think that's terrible, don't you?

And at Mckmass: I actually wasn't being sarcastic with the 'wink,' I honestly feel that at least in the US, every 360 will be sold out - so a lot of this is unneeded.

[Tap In]

HYPE!! With the PS3 around the corner I would want to capture the minds on the PS2/Xbox/GC people to upgrade them to next-gen as soon as possible.

I don't want to live on your block... that's a big corner (6mos to 1 year in NA). :razz:

[Sis]

HYPE!! With the PS3 around the corner I would want to capture the minds on the PS2/Xbox/GC people to upgrade them to next-gen as soon as possible.
If you're selling out of your product, what's left to capture? Building brand awareness is only needed if the brand needs awareness, which Xbox and Xbox 360 probably do not. I would expect either a slow build up of marketing or a full press marketing if sales are off...

.Sis

[mckmas8808]

I don't want to live on your block... that's a big corner (6mos to 1 year in NA). :razz:

Well you know I meant to the world. It's intro to the planet Earth should be what 4 to 5 months after the 360's? Not too much of a difference. That time will fly by quick you know.

[mckmas8808]

If you're selling out of your product, what's left to capture? Building brand awareness is only needed if the brand needs awareness, which Xbox and Xbox 360 probably do not. I would expect either a slow build up of marketing or a full press marketing if sales are off...

.Sis

Yeah basically you're right. They probably will build up the marketing bull slowly.

[Tap In]

Well you know I meant to the world. It's intro to the planet Earth should be what 4 to 5 months after the 360's? Not too much of a difference. That time will fly by quick you know.

just razzin ya Mck. :razz:

[Sis]

Well you know I meant to the world. It's intro to the planet Earth should be what 4 to 5 months after the 360's? Not too much of a difference. That time will fly by quick you know.
That seems supremely optimistic at this point. That would be March or April of 2006. Does anyone still believe the PS3 will release sooner than June/July of '06?

I'm actually betting the PS3 is a full year behind Xbox 360 (a Nov. launch in Japan only). And like the PS2, I also think it won't really matter that they were a year behind.

.Sis

[Carl B]

That seems supremely optimistic at this point. That would be March or April of 2006. Does anyone still believe the PS3 will release sooner than June/July of '06?

I'm actually betting the PS3 is a full year behind Xbox 360 (a Nov. launch in Japan only). And like the PS2, I also think it won't really matter that they were a year behind.

.Sis

Whatever the case in the US or Europe, I'm expecting a pre-Golden Week launch in Japan. Of '06.

[Sis]

Whatever the case in the US or Europe, I'm expecting a pre-Golden Week launch in Japan. Of '06.Seriously? What is this based on though, other than Sony saying "Spring of '06"? Maybe I've missed a couple news bits here and there.

.Sis

[Carl B]

Seriously? What is this based on though, other than Sony saying "Spring of '06"? Maybe I've missed a couple news bits here and there.

.Sis


Yeah, that's all it's based on. That and the fact that Golden Week is the equivelent shopping holiday in Japan to Christmas here.

Now, what's your prediction based on? Just rumor and the thinking that playable games haven't been shown yet, right?

Well - for now I'll opt to go with Sony's spring claims, knowing how important a Golden Week properly hyped launch could be for them in Japan.

[mckmas8808]

just razzin ya Mck. :razz:

What does razzin mean anyway? I post it just because I like the face.:lol:


I'm actually betting the PS3 is a full year behind Xbox 360 (a Nov. launch in Japan only). And like the PS2, I also think it won't really matter that they were a year behind.

With all due respect Sis, most people are saying Spring of '06 because that's what Sony is saying over and over. May I can see too though. November of '06 in Japan is just not going to happen though.

[Sis]

Yeah, that's all it's based on. That and the fact that Golden Week is the equivelent shopping holiday in Japan to Christmas here.

Now, what's your prediction based on? Just rumor and the thinking that playable games haven't been shown yet, right?

Well - for now I'll opt to go with Sony's spring claims, knowing how important a Golden Week properly hyped launch could be for them in Japan.
I base my prediction on lack of anything substantial, given that by your estimates they are just a mere 5 months from release. It feels to me like the console is at least a year away still. I also surmised that Sony is not averse to a late-year release given their PSP launch in Japan of last year. I'd feel better about your claims if I heard of blu-ray laser productions kicking into high gear (or Blu-ray device manufacturing going ahead). And is there any info at all about the graphics chip, other than it's nVidia? Finally, what about the recent rumor/FUD about the heat problems of the Cell? Is it completely hogwash?

Again, all this information may be out there, but I'm not seeing it. But given all the uncertainty and given that it's in Sony's best interest to freeze consumers, I don't really have any reason to believe they can hit a spring launch.

BTW: I pre-ordered by Xbox 360 five months ago almost to the day. That to me is substance. (I realize that if it's a Japan only release, I wouldn't be able to pre-order :wink:, but I would expect there to be something...)
.Sis

[Sis]

With all due respect Sis, most people are saying Spring of '06 because that's what Sony is saying over and over. May I can see too though. November of '06 in Japan is just not going to happen though.
Absolutely--and I'm not necessarily saying the Sony is spreading FUD with this; they may honestly have wanted to hit Spring of '06. But like any complex system, you aren't always in control of dates.

Microsoft, for instance, did not want to wait until the end of next year to release Vista--they wanted to release it a couple years ago and said as much. But as it turns out, it was just not feasible. And I would not be shocked if end of '06 turned into mid-'07 for the Vista release.

The same could very well have happened to Sony.

.Sis

[Serenity Painted Death]

Delaying Vistas like that wouldn't be nearly as damaging to MS as delaying the PS3 would be to Sony. It just isn't going to happen. No reason to delay it in Japan anyway, they could release it with /nothing/ and it will still obliterate the competition.

[Carl B]

I base my prediction on lack of anything substantial, given that by your estimates they are just a mere 5 months from release. It feels to me like the console is at least a year away still. I also surmised that Sony is not averse to a late-year release given their PSP launch in Japan of last year. I'd feel better about your claims if I heard of blu-ray laser productions kicking into high gear (or Blu-ray device manufacturing going ahead). And is there any info at all about the graphics chip, other than it's nVidia? Finally, what about the recent rumor/FUD about the heat problems of the Cell? Is it completely hogwash?

Again, all this information may be out there, but I'm not seeing it. But given all the uncertainty and given that it's in Sony's best interest to freeze consumers, I don't really have any reason to believe they can hit a spring launch.

BTW: I pre-ordered by Xbox 360 five months ago almost to the day. That to me is substance. (I realize that if it's a Japan only release, I wouldn't be able to pre-order :wink:, but I would expect there to be something...)
.Sis


Well, just to start my reply - yeah that Cell heat thing is total hogwash. You can go read the numerous displays of evidence to the contrary if you like in that thread, but the rumor (the Gamestop employee aspect of it) was a total farce.

The rest of your argument makes sense, to be sure - but for me it doesn't push PS3's launch back. I'm quite certain that blu-ray read head production will go ahead per plan, and that PS3 will be one of the first devices containing it. I'm used to the dance companies dance I guess, and for whatever reason I'm pretty good at guessing the meaning behind the words. Every word, every sentence, every venue - it all gives an indication.

Now, I'm not saying that there's no chance that PS3 get delayed, but the very public claim on SCE's part that the console will launch in Spring tells me that at the very least, they also feel that's when it will launch; and anything between now and then that happens will have been unexpected.

So, although again PS3 might launch later than Spring, I don't believe any claim of theirs to the contrary thus far has been an attempt to 'dupe' the public pre-360 release.

I remember there were a lot of claims back in the day that Cell would not make it into the PS3, would not be ready in time, because of the incredible lack of info. And then 'Bam!,' there it was - ready to go. I'm sure Sony will pull a blitzkrieg with PS3 marketing and buzz when they are suitably prepared to impress.

Sony was quiet before E3 as well - nobody knew what they would show or do - but they were there in full force. Often I feel lack of information does not equate to lack of plans; different companies simply have different styles.

In essence, your assumption that PS3 has been pushed back is the assumption that something has gone wrong; and mine that it will be on time is the assumption that things are still under control.

[Sis]

Delaying Vistas like that wouldn't be nearly as damaging to MS as delaying the PS3 would be to Sony. It just isn't going to happen. No reason to delay it in Japan anyway, they could release it with /nothing/ and it will still obliterate the competition.
Vista being delayed has significantly damaged Microsoft through multiple facets; it's not like they WANT to delay. Sony can't just magic the PlayStation 3 into existence. If there's intractable problems their facing, they have to solve them, and sometimes that's by continual re-engineering until it's solved. This takes time.

.Sis

[Sis]

I remember there were a lot of claims back in the day that Cell would not make it into the PS3, would not be ready in time, because of the incredible lack of info. And then 'Bam!,' there it was - ready to go. I'm sure Sony will pull a blitzkrieg with PS3 marketing and buzz when they are suitably prepared to impress.

Sony was quiet before E3 as well - nobody knew what they would show or do - but they were there in full force. Often I feel lack of information does not equate to lack of plans; different companies simply have different styles.
Good point and one that I find MS screws up a lot: they overload consumers with information to the point of exhaustion such that when it is released, people don't consider it "shiney and new".

Apple is amazingly good at doing the opposite, and perhaps Sony as well. We shall see :smile:

.Sis

[Tap In]

What does razzin mean anyway? I post it just because I like the face.:lol:





:D

it just means, giving you a hard time in a friendly/no harm intended manner.

[Powderkeg]

The only reason Sony isn't saying much about the PS3 is because they still have a major holiday shopping season left to go with the PS2. Sure they want to generate hype for the PS3, but not at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars in sales during the rest of this year.

[fireshot]

I remember there were a lot of claims back in the day that Cell would not make it into the PS3, would not be ready in time, because of the incredible lack of info. And then 'Bam!,' there it was - ready to go.

The claims were right, 32 SPEs at 4Ghz isn't in the PS3. :D

[Carl B]

The claims were right, 32 SPEs at 4Ghz isn't in the PS3. :D

Oh Fireshot, why I deal with you... ;)

Anyway the claims were that the Cell R&D wouldn't be completed in time; but it was.

The whole 1 TFlop thing was for the 'Broadband Engine,' nothing Sony ever claimed would be in the PS3. This has been discussed on this board and every other board I know of several times over.

The only relation is that the BE uses Cell(s) (composed of four of them) and Sony also said Cell would be in the PS3. A lot of people mistakenly assumed this was a promise of BE in PS3.

The Broadband Engine as such has not been implemented into anything - and it was really only ever a buzzword and a patent - but the performance required to reach it is there. 4 Cells (as in the BE patent) at 4 GHz would indeed surpass 1 TFlop of performance.

So the Cell's we see today are still up to spec with the intitial promises.

[jvd]

So, this kind of tactic would pretty much ensure the headlines:
"XXX sold out on day one, XXX launch the most succesful ever!"
"XXX software tie-in ratio 6:1!! The launch software is selling better than any console!"

If this is indeed true, can we please agree to ban all next gen sales figures topics, please :)

why ? all companys do this . IN fact gamestop and eb both made u buy acessorys and games with the unit on launch day in msot of the stores . For the psp if you bought online u had to buy a bundle. Should we ban all those sales ?

This is common practice and actually this is something the stores like and most of the time its thier own imposing as they want thier own tie in rates to be high. We are allways told to get people to buy more than one thing when ringing up and at least a reserve or sub . Thats because each store's numbers look better and then of course the disrict and then the region and then the companys numbers all look better .

[jvd]

why would they make commercials this far out before christmas, knowing that the first couple of waves of shipments are already sold out.

exactly. In our store we are getting 32 units now , 2 are core . We have 72 preorders and we don't thin kwe will fill them all untill december 28th . That is already after the holiday season. So most likely casuals aren't getting thier hand on thier system . So really why advertise something that they can't increase sales on ?

Now i expect the game comercials to start in another week or so

[scooby_dooby]

So really why advertise something that they can't increase sales on ?


It can't hurt. Why not take the strong buzz, and turn it into a Frenzy?

What better way to ensure consistent sales well into the new year? right now they have no competition, this is teh perfect time to capture the "cool" factor en masse.

[valioso]

It can't hurt. Why not take the strong buzz, and turn it into a Frenzy?

What better way to ensure consistent sales well into the new year? right now they have no competition, this is teh perfect time to capture the "cool" factor en masse.

because is a waste of money.. if commercials doesnt increase sales they are pointless, if all available consoles are already sold out from pre-orders, the commercials will just serve to make people piss they can't find it and for MS to piss money away and not get any return on that $$

[jvd]

It can't hurt. Why not take the strong buzz, and turn it into a Frenzy?

What better way to ensure consistent sales well into the new year? right now they have no competition, this is teh perfect time to capture the "cool" factor en masse.

They don't need to .

Come on

Remember n64
tickle me elmo
ps2 ?

How about the cabage patch kids ?


All of these are strong x mass toys and all of these got constant media coverage. Hell even the dreamcast had great hype in sept . There were articlesi n all hte papers and on tv constantly .

Aside from that we all know the first shipment or two are sold out. So why not save the money and start advertising when sales start to soften ? Specificly the dead time of year that is febuary through june ?

[scooby_dooby]

lol, good points, conventional media will probably take care of it. Still, with only 3 weeks before launch, it's a little strange not to have seen a single commercial.

[Sis]

lol, good points, conventional media will probably take care of it. Still, with only 3 weeks before launch, it's a little strange not to have seen a single commercial.
I agree that it feels strange, but I think MS might be a little screwed on the launch with the whole multi-territory launch. So instead of creating a frenzy that can't be satiated, better to play it low key until supply can catch up to demand.

Then again, I remember thinking that the Xbox launch was weak and lackluster as well, but maybe that was me not caring about it (the Dreamcast broke my heart for a good year or two :cry: ).

.Sis

[fireshot]

Ah xb sony virgil watch,

I stand by my statement. composition of Cells in PS3 > R&D delay :D

I will stop our little OT spate with a hypothesis, have one guy travel back in time and tell the world that PS3 will havethis (http://www.consoleo.internauci.pl/ogm/Grafa/sc/Inne/E32005/porownanie_big.jpg) Cell in it. no claims of delay will surface.

[Carl B]

EDIT: ah well whatever, yeah it's gone off-topic

[mckmas8808]

I agree that it feels strange, but I think MS might be a little screwed on the launch with the whole multi-territory launch. So instead of creating a frenzy that can't be satiated, better to play it low key until supply can catch up to demand.
.Sis

Honestly listen to you guys buying the Xbox 360. Better play it low key? For what you have the PS3 on your a$$. Along with the ultra cool and different Revolution. If I were MS, like scooby said earlier I would be trying to soak up all the craziness that I can. After E3 of next year I guaruntee that Sony will kill the media with hype. MS needs to be doing that now and all the way through.

If not then if/when MS loses this next-gen battle people will be saying, "Oh they lose do to the Sony hype in 2006. Next time with the Xbox 720 MS will be doing things differently."

[valioso]

Honestly listen to you guys buying the Xbox 360. Better play it low key? For what you have the PS3 on your a$$. Along with the ultra cool and different Revolution. If I were MS, like scooby said earlier I would be trying to soak up all the craziness that I can. After E3 of next year I guaruntee that Sony will kill the media with hype. MS needs to be doing that now and all the way through.

If not then if/when MS loses this next-gen battle people will be saying, "Oh they lose do to the Sony hype in 2006. Next time with the Xbox 720 MS will be doing things differently."

for someone that claims not to be a fb that stament sure sounds like it... better take it to system wars would ya.

[Sis]

Honestly listen to you guys buying the Xbox 360. Better play it low key? For what you have the PS3 on your a$$. Along with the ultra cool and different Revolution. If I were MS, like scooby said earlier I would be trying to soak up all the craziness that I can. After E3 of next year I guaruntee that Sony will kill the media with hype. MS needs to be doing that now and all the way through.

If not then if/when MS loses this next-gen battle people will be saying, "Oh they lose do to the Sony hype in 2006. Next time with the Xbox 720 MS will be doing things differently."
Could be, it's hard to say. The idea is this: let's say you have 700 million to spend on marketing (I don't know what their actual marketing spend will be, but I'm assuming it's up there). Now, with that 700 million, do you blow 300 million now in order to create a huge frenzy, given that consumers can't really get the console yet?

Or do you blow it all around the same time PS3 launches to try to drown out the PS3 marketing?

But given that, the more I think about it the more I think it's odd that I haven't seen any real advertising. Who knows? We'll probably see it kicked up here soon. MS may be pushing more on retailers to do the promoting early on.

.Sis

[Sis]

for someone that claims not to be a fb that stament sure sounds like it... better take it to system wars would ya.
That's just mckmas's way when he gets excited about a topic; I tend not to think he's trying to have a console war but you have to look past his hyperbole...

.Sis

[scooby_dooby]

"After E3 of next year I guaruntee that Sony will kill the media with hype."

You're TOTALLY overestimating sony's hype machine, and underestimating MS.

I think with the amount of really cool games MS has coming out in Q2, Q3 and Q4 2006 they won't have any problem dealing with sony's 'hype'

At E3 we'll see possibly GOW, Splinter Cell 4, Lost Odyssey, Too Human, Crackdown, Halo 3, those are real games people will be able to go out and play, and MS will have no problem dealing with the PS3 hype.

In fact, I would wager they do much better vs Sony than they did at E3 2005, as Sony will now have to show 'real' games, they won't be able to slide by on CGI, and MS will have some graphical powerhouses like GOW, Mass Effect and Splinter Cell 4.

[mckmas8808]

for someone that claims not to be a fb that stament sure sounds like it... better take it to system wars would ya.

You got to know me a little better homie I don't do the systems wars thing.:razz:

[mckmas8808]

Could be, it's hard to say. The idea is this: let's say you have 700 million to spend on marketing (I don't know what their actual marketing spend will be, but I'm assuming it's up there). Now, with that 700 million, do you blow 300 million now in order to create a huge frenzy, given that consumers can't really get the console yet?

Or do you blow it all around the same time PS3 launches to try to drown out the PS3 marketing?

But given that, the more I think about it the more I think it's odd that I haven't seen any real advertising. Who knows? We'll probably see it kicked up here soon. MS may be pushing more on retailers to do the promoting early on.

.Sis

Oh know I totally understand what you are saying here. But wasn't it everybody else that says MS has big pockets, MS money is long, and MS can afford to do this and that because they are so paid? If they have so much money and MS usually beats the competition buy out spending them then why don't they do it now?

It's kind of like using your opponents arguement against him. The opponent says MS has big money and that this generation didn't hurt MS because of that. So I say they should spend some of that big money and out hype Sony early.

You're TOTALLY overestimating sony's hype machine, and underestimating MS.

I think with the amount of really cool games MS has coming out in Q2, Q3 and Q4 2006 they won't have any problem dealing with sony's 'hype'

At E3 we'll see possibly GOW, Splinter Cell 4, Lost Odyssey, Too Human, Crackdown, Halo 3, those are real games people will be able to go out and play, and MS will have no problem dealing with the PS3 hype.

In fact, I would wager they do much better vs Sony than they did at E3 2005, as Sony will now have to show 'real' games, they won't be able to slide by on CGI, and MS will have some graphical powerhouses like GOW, Mass Effect and Splinter Cell 4.

With all due respect scooby you were on the internet around E3 2005 and TGS 2005 you know the deal. You know which consoles received the least amount of hype at each show. And that's with only MS launching this year and nobody else. Imagine if somebody was actually launching a next-gen console this year too.

[avaya]

You're TOTALLY overestimating sony's hype machine, and underestimating MS.

I don't think he is. He is a bit overconfident/highly excited about the matter at hand but he does have a point.

If history is any lesson Sony does seem to be able to build a level of hype that even reaches the mainstream.

It's definitely an advantage they have; they already have a brand that appeals to the target demographics on every level and even transcends the market. Microsoft has to devote a lot of resources to match that sort of brand power worldwide and breakdown negative perceptions of the company.

[<nu>faust]

why would one machine has to kill the other anyway??? sony's wastly superior software support, its dominance in terms of user base and excellent marketing couldnt "kill" xbox1 (which a machine that was everybody sceptical about,was not supported by some of the biggest developers,came to market 1 year after sony,its design was ugly,ms's marketing was not comparable to sony's...etc(i could go on,you know :)) and ms prevailed (yeah they might have lost alot of money but,being no 2 in your first attempt in highly competetive market such as videogame market is real good job in my book) what does sony have this time that they didn't have last time(please dont say supeior hardware), why are they in better position than last time?

[scooby_dooby]

With all due respect scooby you were on the internet around E3 2005 and TGS 2005 you know the deal. You know which consoles received the least amount of hype at each show. And that's with only MS launching this year and nobody else. Imagine if somebody was actually launching a next-gen console this year too.

But it's very easy to create hype when you show nothign but pre-selected, and prerendered videos. Anyone could do it. They won't have that luxury next year, so the 2 will be on a much more even platform.

Real Games vs Real Games, and MS doesn't have much to worry about IMO.

[Sis]

sony's wastly superior software support
I know this is just a type-o, so I apologize upfront, but this made me think of an Elmer Fudd covering the game industry:

"Wascally Kutawagi said his PwayStation thwee will be able to wender 120 fwames per second!"

[After these messages, we'll be riiight back.]

Ok, sorry about that.

.Sis

[<nu>faust]

it's all good sis,just watch ur back my friend :twisted:

[jvd]

mckmass you intrest me .


You believe sony is still going to hit a spring 06 launch yet that would give them about 5 months before launch and they have yet to

a) Show finished hardware

b) show any playable games

c) finalized bluray specs


Now with that said

Why do you belive its a poor move not to invest money into hyping a sold out product ?

What are the benfits to hyping it ?

You have basicly sold all the units you have. So why say hey guys look xbox 360 is out but guess what , you can't get them ? That will only hurt them. They are going to get enough hype being sold out from all the news . I can picture it now , abc , nbc , fox , cbs and the others are gong to be broadcasting from stores saying the hottest system this xmass , xbox 360 is sold out and your not going to find them.

When x mass is over the hype will still be there . Consumers will connect the sold out , hot x mass item with the comericals they are now seeing and when they go to stores they will find it in stock .

That is when advertising is important. In the febuary to june time frame when sales are normaly low for all products . This is a time when people are repaying the money they spend during x mass , this is the time that peopl eare saving money. This is the time you want to generate hype for people to go and buy things . Its when it really needs hype .


Now as I said ms needs to start advertising games . Which they are starting to do in comics an dmagazines in the states. However nov 1 2005 isn't the time . That is because the product isn't out and wont be out. They are advertising in stores though. There is a huge wall of advertising for the xbox 360 in almost every gaming store i went into . Even bestbuy and toys rus has advertising .

The comericals will start coming around the 15th or so i'd say right before you are able to buy them .


Also not lets forget that for 9 weeks we've been seeing here in the states at least xbox 360 comercials .

You know the ones that start off "So your upset that you didn't win an xbox 360 in the mountian dew every 10 minutes contest , well don't worry because in 10 minutes u will have another chance"

Ms is making hype . Just by doing it cost effective .

[mckmas8808]

mckmass you intrest me .


You believe sony is still going to hit a spring 06 launch yet that would give them about 5 months before launch and they have yet to

a) Show finished hardware

b) show any playable games

c) finalized bluray specs



One word again. YES! Why do they have to show finished hardware on your terms. Janurary is when we should be seeing A and B and maybe C. That's 3 to 5 months before the release. Not bad if they bring it hard.

[jvd]

One word again. YES! Why do they have to show finished hardware on your terms. Janurary is when we should be seeing A and B and maybe C. That's 3 to 5 months before the release. Not bad if they bring it hard.

Its not my terms . Its the industrys terms .

Or do you forget all the websites that claimed games weren't great or weren't going to hit launch cause they were playable at e3 which was what 6 months before the xbox 360 launch and that final hardware wasnt finished and they would never make launch with good games

Why are they showing us demos and videos instead of actual games . What is wrong with the games or the hardware .

Why no playable hardware anywhere ? Do devs even have it ?

Where is the finalized bluray ? Ms started making units in sept . That is about 2 months before they launched. Which means anytime table u give us has to be reduced by that for production .

Sony has yet to show any proof they will hit thier spring date .

You can go on believing whatever you want , i can't stop u . YOu go on believing the unit wont be expensive and they will make a spring launch . But when it doesn't come true dont go around trying to run damage control

[mckmas8808]

Its not my terms . Its the industrys terms .

Or do you forget all the websites that claimed games weren't great or weren't going to hit launch cause they were playable at e3 which was what 6 months before the xbox 360 launch and that final hardware wasnt finished and they would never make launch with good games

Why are they showing us demos and videos instead of actual games . What is wrong with the games or the hardware .

Why no playable hardware anywhere ? Do devs even have it ?

Where is the finalized bluray ? Ms started making units in sept . That is about 2 months before they launched. Which means anytime table u give us has to be reduced by that for production .

Sony has yet to show any proof they will hit thier spring date .

You can go on believing whatever you want , i can't stop u . YOu go on believing the unit wont be expensive and they will make a spring launch . But when it doesn't come true dont go around trying to run damage control

For of all unlike others I don't do the damage control thing. Sony hasn't also show no proof that they won't hit their spring date either. Yet they said they will. Is it actually possible that Sony have a different business model than the great unstopable Microsoft!?!?:shock: What!?!

At the end of the day if Sony launches the PS3 in June 23rd or later than yes you would have been correct and I would be the first person to tell you you were. No problem for me.

[jvd]

For of all unlike others I don't do the damage control thing. Sony hasn't also show no proof that they won't hit their spring date either. Yet they said they will. Is it actually possible that Sony have a different business model than the great unstopable Microsoft!?!?:shock: What!?!

At the end of the day if Sony launches the PS3 in June 23rd or later than yes you would have been correct and I would be the first person to tell you you were. No problem for me.


Please your the one still running around even after a number of interviews and articles stating killzone wasn't real , saying its possible .

But i'm not going to go into this with you as most likely i will be banned .

[Bad_Boy]

its all hype right?

they keep telling us, spring 06, spring 06, spring 06, spring 06. whether thats NA, Japan, Europe, or a total worldwide launch they keep saying spring 06.

what i dont get is why would they keep telling us this at every conference even this close to the end of the year when they dont think they can make spring 06, even in one region.

they keep showing us killzone, motorstorm and such over and over, and over and over. what i dont get is why they would keep showing us this footage if it were not possible. especially this late in the year.

ill keep belielieving in spring 06 until sony tells us otherwise. id rather hear it from the company themselves rather than hundreds of unbiased/biased journalist who like to speculate. so until sony says summer 06, or q3/q4of 06, or summer of 2009, ill keep on thinking sony is releasing in spring 06. if im wrong, im wrong, what am i gonna do. id rather be positive toward the situation than negative. they havent shown us any proof that killzone is not possible. they havent shown us any proof that spring 06 is not possible in any region, or worldwide.

god forbid if sony proves you guys wrong. the world would just stop now wouldnt it. some of you guys are so optimistic toward your favorite console, but love to talk negative when someone else is optimistic toward their favorite console. sorry, but it had to be said :/

its all hype right?

[jvd]

Bad boy . Why would bethesta tell us holiday 05 , holiday 05 , holiday 05 and then push the game back till fiscal 2006 ?

Things happen. IN sonys case if they give us the perseption of a sooner launch date it will keep some that are on the fence on the fence. If they said yea we are launching in summer or whatever that will loose them some people over the holiday . This way after the holiday they can announce that the system date has slipped . Like they did when the dreamcast launched with internet capabilitys for 2 years and sony claimed they'd have online games also and it took what 2 years for it to happen ?

[Platon]

Honestly listen to you guys buying the Xbox 360. Better play it low key? For what you have the PS3 on your a$$. Along with the ultra cool and different Revolution. If I were MS, like scooby said earlier I would be trying to soak up all the craziness that I can. After E3 of next year I guaruntee that Sony will kill the media with hype. MS needs to be doing that now and all the way through.

If not then if/when MS loses this next-gen battle people will be saying, "Oh they lose do to the Sony hype in 2006. Next time with the Xbox 720 MS will be doing things differently."

The console "wars" are not lost or won based on what happens only on launch. We know that all the xboxes between launch and christmas are sold out more or less, and I am sure that Sony will sell all they PS3s when they launch and at whatever prise. The bulk of the sales comes much longer after the launch, when the prices go down. Launch says little about how the rest of the 5 years will pan out...

[mckmas8808]

The console "wars" are not lost or won based on what happens only on launch. We know that all the xboxes between launch and christmas are sold out more or less, and I am sure that Sony will sell all they PS3s when they launch and at whatever prise. The bulk of the sales comes much longer after the launch, when the prices go down. Launch says little about how the rest of the 5 years will pan out...

I know that. What I said at the end was meant to be a joke. That's what MS fanguys will be saying if the PS3 far outsells the X360. They will be saying Sony out hyped MS and that Sony was at the right place at the right time. Trust me I know launch doesn't equal what your product will do in 5 years.

[Bad_Boy]

Bad boy . Why would bethesta tell us holiday 05 , holiday 05 , holiday 05 and then push the game back till fiscal 2006 ?

doesnt bethesta have a long history of delays? ;) sony on the other hand, delivered on most of the dates when they actually told us the dates. (i cant recall back to the ps1 release) but for example, uk wasnt delayed the psp, they just didnt give it to them for a long while (im guessing to work on production), but when they told us the date they would get them, they got them.

its funny because in the that oblivion delay thread it seemed you were the only one who could not beleive that it was going to get delayed being so optimistic that it was a rumor based of wrong facts or somthing, but when you use that game to compare to sony your not optimistic at all.

Things happen. IN sonys case if they give us the perseption of a sooner launch date it will keep some that are on the fence on the fence. If they said yea we are launching in summer or whatever that will loose them some people over the holiday . This way after the holiday they can announce that the system date has slipped . Like they did when the dreamcast launched with internet capabilitys for 2 years and sony claimed they'd have online games also and it took what 2 years for it to happen ?i dont think thats quite the same thing. your talking about software capabilities not hardware launch. for example again, the psp never launched with a web browser even though sony loved to market that it was very possible and probable before the psp launched.

if im wrong on spring 06 then im wrong. bad for sony, but what am i gonna do. all i can do is wait. but im saying spring 06 (most likely japan release first like usual) until sony says otherwise, unlike some who are intent on their own speculated release dates being correct, i.e. 22 months after xbox360. ;)

[mckmas8808]

if im wrong on spring 06 then im wrong. bad for sony, but what am i gonna do. all i can do is wait. but im saying spring 06 (most likely japan release first like usual) until sony says otherwise, unlike some who are intent on their own speculated release dates being correct, i.e. 22 months after xbox360. ;)

Me and you feel exactly the same on this issue. Like you said if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I would like to listen to Sony too over some posters.

[jvd]

doesnt bethesta have a long history of delays? :wink: sony on the other hand, delivered on most of the dates when they actually told us the dates. (i cant recall back to the ps1 release) but for example, uk wasnt delayed the psp, they just didnt give it to them for a long while (im guessing to work on production), but when they told us the date they would get them, they got them.

its funny because in the that oblivion delay thread it seemed you were the only one who could not beleive that it was going to get delayed being so optimistic that it was a rumor based of wrong facts or somthing, but when you use that game to compare to sony your not optimistic at all.


Sony has sliped on product releases . The amp i wanted for my car was delayed 6 months so was the receiver . They also had a ton of delays with mini discs


Yup i couldn't believe it was going to be delayed as i've actually played the game on the xbox 360 and thought it was running fine . I couldn't also believe it beucase it came out in a financial report and not from the developers themselves (Who still haven't comment it on )

Why would i believe sony ? Didn't they tell me the ps3 was going to have router type features built in and not even 2 months later they took out that feature ?

[Shifty Geezer]

Why would i believe sony ? Didn't they tell me the ps3 was going to have router type features built in and not even 2 months later they took out that feature ?No they didn't. This has been covered quite a lot but you persist in using it as an example for Sony changng their minds. Not that I'm saying they don't - the best laid plans yadayada. But using the 'PS3 has already lost router functionality' argument doesn't work because router functionality was never promised for it in the first place.

[rabidrabbit]

Why would you believe Microsoft then, they dropped the HD and wireless controlles from the core xbox360, certainly much more "bigger" features in a console than routing in anyone's book.
What has this got to do with Bethesda and Oblivion though, no more than Sony dropping features and their delays, not to speak of Microsoft "bullying" the retailers rumour
which is the topic of this thread, by the way ;)

[Bad_Boy]

Sony has sliped on product releases . The amp i wanted for my car was delayed 6 months so was the receiver . They also had a ton of delays with mini discs
lol. they could delay making their own blank dvd's for all i care im talking about their pretty much biggest known product they create the playstation line. (ps1/ps2/psp/ps3)


Why would i believe sony ? Didn't they tell me the ps3 was going to have router type features built in and not even 2 months later they took out that feature ?
but they told us right? they didnt try to hide it until the last minute which obviously proves my point. if they keep saying spring 06 over and over, this late in the game, then i have no choice but to go by spring 06 until told otherwise. this is how delays work.

Why would you believe Microsoft then, they dropped the HD and wireless controlles from the core xbox360, certainly much more "bigger" features in a console than routing in anyone's book.

exactly.

[Shifty Geezer]

lol. they could delay making their own blank dvd's for all i care im talking about their pretty much biggest known product they create the playstation line. (ps1/ps2/psp/ps3)PSP slipped it's EU release, by something like 6 months I think.

[Bad_Boy]

PSP slipped it's EU release, by something like 6 months I think.
i mentioned this in my earlier post, it never slipped up really, it was never delayed if they never announced a date. but when they told a date on when EU would get their psp's they got them.

[mckmas8808]

Why would i believe sony ? Didn't they tell me the ps3 was going to have router type features built in and not even 2 months later they took out that feature ?

NO they didn't and you know better.

[Shifty Geezer]

i mentioned this in my earlier post, it never slipped up really, it was never delayed if they never announced a date. but when they told a date on when EU would get their psp's they got them.They talked (IIRC) of a whenever it was release, never giving a specific date, and that release never appeared. Sony are talking of a release area, but in the same way that might not happen. At the moment it's a target period, if all goes to plan, that they're aiming for. There's no guarentees it'll happen. All sorts of things can go wrong.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=2770
Newly promoted Sony Europe boss Chris Deering has revealed that the company is planning to roll out the PlayStation Portable worldwide by the end of the year, with a global launch aimed at November 2004.
Speaking in an interview with official site PlayStation.com, Deering said that there was no official date for the unveiling of the handheld device, but added that he expected it to be announced widely well ahead of the November launch.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=6625
As yet, no details have been announced regarding the European launch of the system, although senior Sony executives have repeatedly confirmed their desire to launch the platform here before the end of the financial year on March 31st.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=6977
The company had originally planned to launch the PSP in Korea in late March, alongside its launch in North America - but it has now realised that it won't have enough hardware to satisfy demands in both markets simultaneously.

[Bad_Boy]

exactly though, if they give no date, technically its not really a delay. ps3 has already been given a date, spring 06, not very specific but a date/period nonetheless whether thats a global launch or japan only we dont know yet. if ps3 does not make any date in that spring 06 then its been definately been delayed. (or if they officially tell us its been delayed)

if the EU launch was delayed, then the NA launch for the psp was delayed because they didnt tell us anything about the release until feb/early-march i beleive on when the NA psp's would launch. (probably because they were getting production up like you said) see my point?

another example
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=57807
As yet, no details have been announced regarding the European launch of the system, although senior Sony executives have repeatedly confirmed their desire to launch the platform here before the end of the financial year on March 31st.
saying they desire to release the psp in EU in march is different then actually saying we will launch the psp in EU in march. saying they would like to do somethin is different from actually doing it.

ex. seeing a headline that says "Sony CEO confirms PS3 launch for Spring 2006" is definately more concrete than "Sony executives hope to deliver the PS3 Spring of 2006"

yeah its sucky how they word it. but its all we have to go by :(

but i agree with you, definately anything could happen from now and then, but like i said, if im wrong, im wrong.

[rabidrabbit]

uh, maybe it's just me but I fail to see the difference between the "desired PSP launch" and the "desired PS3 launch".
The PS3 launch is just as undecided and uncertain as was the PSP launch then, neither had/has been fiven more exact dates than "holiday season 04, spring 05, autumn 05, spring 06..."

[jvd]

No they didn't. This has been covered quite a lot but you persist in using it as an example for Sony changng their minds. Not that I'm saying they don't - the best laid plans yadayada. But using the 'PS3 has already lost router functionality' argument doesn't work because router functionality was never promised for it in the first place.

Sure they did . The announced it in the specs at e3 and talked about it in interviews

[Titanio]

Sure they did . The announced it in the specs at e3 and talked about it in interviews

You are being wilfully ignorant. They even said in those interviews, explicitly, that it was NOT a router!

There is no excuse for continuing to claim to the contrary. We've raked over this numerous times now.

It was announced at E3 as a three-port switching hub, this was explained in interviews - and that it was not a router - and that's how it remains. Show me one quote from Sony saying it's a router.

[jvd]

You are being wilfully ignorant. They even said in those interviews, explicitly, that it was NOT a router!

It was announced at E3 as a three-port switching hub, this was explained in interviews - and that it was not a router - and that's how it remains. Show me one quote from Sony saying it's a router.

Sure , i will pull out the old game informer .

[Titanio]

Sure , i will pull out the old game informer .

I want a quote from Sony, not some journo who doesn't know the difference between a switch and a router. OK? I'd also like to see these interviews you talk about, because I can point you to E3 interviews wherein it is explicitly said that it is NOT a router. For example, from the Masa Chatani PC Watch Impress E3 interview:

Q. Gigabit Ethernet connectors are listed as In x 1 + Out x 2, what does it mean? Does it have router function and are they for WAN/LAN? Or do you use a special connection to connect multiple PS3s together?

A. It has no router function. It's supposed to be a switching hub internally, but I don't know about the meaning of In/Out frankly so will answer about it at the next opportunity. Of course you can connect PS3s together. After it's on sale, some will make a supercomputer by connecting many PS3s. Apparently Sony Picture Entertainment is considering to use PS3 in a rendering farm for movies.

[Shifty Geezer]

Sure they did . The announced it in the specs at e3 and talked about it in interviewsIf you can show me where I'll be pleased to see it. The internet abounds with talk and articles of 'Router Function Dropped' but I haven't been able to find anything that says PS3 was to have router functionality at E3. I believe there was a Sony spokesman who said something along those lines without using the term correctly. By accounts the decision not to be a router was made before E3.

[jvd]

I want a quote from Sony, not some journo who doesn't know the difference between a switch and a router. OK? I'd also like to see these interviews you talk about, because I can point you to E3 interviews wherein it is explicitly said that it is NOT a router. I know there is a quote in the gameinformer . So i'm going to get the game informer when i get home tonight. I'm not going to spend 6 hours searching through e3 reports for it .

[Titanio]

I know there is a quote in the gameinformer . So i'm going to get the game informer when i get home tonight. I'm not going to spend 6 hours searching through e3 reports for it .

Well see my quote above for the explicit explanation from Chatani at E3 that it was NOT a router, for example. The spec sheets I'm looking at from E3 do not mention router functionality. I remember listening to the conference also, previously, to confirm that "router" was not mentioned, and indeed it was not - it's referred to as a switch, or switching hub. That's what it is, that's what it always was, and that's what it remains as.

Looking back on earlier threads on B3D about this, you even participated yourself in threads where all of this was corrected and clarified. So you do know better.

[jvd]

Well see my quote above for the explicit explanation from Chatani at E3 that it was NOT a router, for example. The spec sheets I'm looking at from E3 do not mention router functionality. I remember listening to the conference also, previously, to confirm that "router" was not mentioned, and indeed it was not - it's referred to as a switch, or switching hub. That's what it is, that's what it always was, and that's what it remains as.

Looking back on earlier threads on B3D about this, you even participated yourself in threads where all of this was corrected and clarified. So you do know better.

obvously not everyone agrees.
I believe there was a Sony spokesman who said something along those lines without using the term correctly. By accounts the decision not to be a router was made before E3.


so obviouslysothers remember it said by a sony spokesman .

[Titanio]

obvously not everyone agrees.


so obviouslysothers remember it said by a sony spokesman .

Well go find that quote.

In the meantime, ask yourself how wise it might be to cling to a quote from an anonymous (and if true, simply mistaken) "Sony spokesperson" when you have all you need from multiple much better sources right in front of you to see that it was never announced as part of the spec. Read the Chatani interview, listen to the conference, read the E3 spec. What more do you want?

[mckmas8808]

I know there is a quote in the gameinformer . So i'm going to get the game informer when i get home tonight. I'm not going to spend 6 hours searching through e3 reports for it .

Look at the darn quote Titiano posted above you man!! The guy is what the CTO of Sony. Can you imagine how many stripes Masa Chatani has earned in the past? And you want to grab a Gameinformer. What, you can't be serious? Please stop it. Please for the sake a Sonic just stop.

[Bobbler]

At the first announcement of PS3 (the conference pre-e3) Kutaragi explicitly said "Switching hub" (switch) and made no mention of a Router. There is also that Chatani interview that said the PS3 had "no router function". At this point, jvd, I'm not sure who you could quote that could possibly discredit either of those two sources. The only router mentions were from people guessing or completely misinterpreting things (like gi.biz and many other sites who can't tell a hub from a router).

Sony never said PS3 would have router functionality -- and a quote from game informer is hardly enough to discredit two sources (which were at the first announcement of PS3) saying otherwise. It's a fruitless arguement to even try it; it was never announced to begin with.

[jvd]

Look at the darn quote Titiano posted above you man!! The guy is what the CTO of Sony. Can you imagine how many stripes Masa Chatani has earned in the past? And you want to grab a Gameinformer. What, you can't be serious? Please stop it. Please for the sake a Sonic just stop.

Of course i'm serious . I'm sorry but if a person from sony says it will have router like functions than that is sony saying it will.

As for stoping perhaps you , yourself should stop it . I'm getting tired of your constant attacks

[Titanio]

Of course i'm serious . I'm sorry but if a person from sony says it will have router like functions than that is sony saying it will.

And if Sony's CTO says it does not, when its announced at E3 as a switching hub, when the specs refer to simply the 2 input/output ports and nothing more...

...?

But of course, you wish to crucify Sony at any (perceived) opportunity.

[jvd]

And if Sony's CTO, for one, says it does not...

...?

But of course, you wish to crucify Sony at any (perceived) opportunity.

of course i would . And others would go through any lengths including attacking ml and nikko group to protect sony .

Whats your point

if you want to call me a name then be a man and do it . Or if your waiting for someone to go in and ban me keep poking me with a stick

[mckmas8808]

Of course i'm serious . I'm sorry but if a person from sony says it will have router like functions than that is sony saying it will.

As for stoping perhaps you , yourself should stop it . I'm getting tired of your constant attacks

Man you hate Sony THAT much kid? I didn't know it was like that. Why do you ignore what the CTO the Chief Technology Officer (I think that's it) of Sony has to say, but you listen to some Sony hype man making $8 per hour working a 4 hour shift at E3 for 3 days?

[Titanio]

of course i would . And others would go through any lengths including attacking ml and nikko group to protect sony .

I'm not sure what you're talking about at all I'm afraid.

Whats your point

My point is you are perpetuating a myth in the face of massive evidence to the contrary. You have done so on multiple occasions now, simply because you like the idea of "Sony's broken promises".

I don't want to call you any names, I want you to stop spreading misinformation.

[jvd]

Man you hate Sony THAT much kid? I didn't know it was like that. Why do you ignore what the CTO the Chief Technology Officer (I think that's it) of Sony has to say, but you listen to some Sony hype man making $8 per hour working a 4 hour shift at E3 for 3 days?

A sony employee has said it .

I don't see why there is more debate on the subject . If a sony employee is not briefed on the product they are annoucning at a big event then there are problems with sony.

[Titanio]

A sony employee has said it .

I don't see why there is more debate on the subject . If a sony employee is not briefed on the product they are annoucning at a big event then there are problems with sony.

If a Sony rep did mistakenly say that, it is no more of a gaffe than for example MS's website error claiming 720p DVD upscaling. Anyone who knew what they were talking about in that instance knew it was wrong, just like anyone who had paid attention at E3 and listened to the likes of Kutaragi and Chatani would know that that rep was wrong.

But of course, you prefer to solely pay attention to this quote we've yet to see rather than SCEI's president or CTO (or again, even the spec sheet).

Oh - and it would it really be so remarkable if a rep did mistakenly refer to it as a router? As evidenced by the media reporting of that Kutaragi interview, very few seem to know the difference between a switch and a router..

[mckmas8808]

A sony employee has said it .

I don't see why there is more debate on the subject . If a sony employee is not briefed on the product they are annoucning at a big event then there are problems with sony.

Keep keep keep it on baby. Keep lighting that fire to burn Sony to the ground.:lol: If you are going to ignore Masa Chatani then there is nothing else I can say to you. And you think I'm a fanguy sheesh.