Jim Merrick speaks about Revolution... [Archive]

EndR

31-Oct-2005, 15:13

Some tidbits..

- Revolution will launch worlwide within 14 weeks maximum, that means on the same quarter in every region.
- Multiplayer mode in Revolution will be similar to the NDS: multiple players with only one copy of the game.
- You'll be able to download retro games from different regions (for instance, an European user could download Super Mario RPG for the SNES from the US server).
- When played on Revolution, N64 games will have better framerate but there won't be significant graphical improvements.
- No Revolution games will be shown in 2005.
- There won't be any significant differences in the graphics of Revolution compared to the other systems

This comes from an interview conducted by Meristation (in spanish):
http://www.meristation.com/v3/des_articulo.php?pic=NRV&id=cw4364e1acb0d17&idj=&idp=&tipo=art&c=1&pos=0
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Shifty Geezer

31-Oct-2005, 15:26

- Multiplayer mode in Revolution will be similar to the NDS: multiple players with only one copy of the game. Oh yes? Someone with a Rev will be uploading gigabytes of data up over their 256 MBit uplink?

darkblu

31-Oct-2005, 15:30

Shifty, i wouldn't read too much into that if it's really very much like multiplayer games on the NDS, as few of them support full game upload over the air.

mckmas8808

31-Oct-2005, 15:32

Some tidbits..

- Revolution will launch worlwide within 14 weeks maximum, that means on the same quarter in every region.

I love the sound of this. I hope Sony could open their eyes to try something like this.

hey69

31-Oct-2005, 15:38

wireles lan game where
1rev console is server connecting up to 6 TV's ?? , others are clients controlling just the input side of things.?
(or maybe emulated games will be shared)
about sony ps3 worldwide launch:
i dont th!nk it's a question about 'willing to deliver' but 'can deliver'

pc999

31-Oct-2005, 15:40

-No Revolution games will be shown in 2005.
No I has some hope on that, it would be good to take some attention from XB360 too (even if it is only some simple gameplay, ign like, demos).

- There won't be any significant differences in the graphics of Revolution compared to the other systems

I hope the same can be said for AI, physics etc...

The rest his more or less what I expected.

pipo

31-Oct-2005, 15:44

- When played on Revolution, N64 games will have better framerate but there won't be significant graphical improvements.

Ohh. WaveRace at 60FPS!

EndR

31-Oct-2005, 15:50

Ohh. WaveRace at 60FPS!

or even a playable multiplayer Perfect Dark.. ;)

Titanio

31-Oct-2005, 15:53

All sounds very good! Although a 14 week window for launches around the world isn't quite simultaneous (but much better than what we've had from Nintendo or Sony before).

wireles lan game where
1rev console is server connecting up to 6 TV's ?? , others are clients controlling just the input side of things.?

I don't think this would work. I'd say most games will probably work peer-to-peer or with a traditional client-server model, with servers on the publishers end. I think the game sharing would just be sharing data relevant to the multiplayer part of the game..I'm not sure if it'd need to be gigabytes of data (?) Though it could be rather a lot of data still...

hey69

31-Oct-2005, 16:13

well, lets say its only 150 mbyte of data.
on a 54mbit wireless connection , thats 22mbit sustained real troughpout you can practicly send.... (22mbit give or take 3mbyte a second maximum.)
i'm curious.. :)

Shifty Geezer

31-Oct-2005, 16:17

Shifty, i wouldn't read too much into that if it's really very much like multiplayer games on the NDS, as few of them support full game upload over the air.But how could any games be played with only one copy on Revolution? Seems like an impossibility to me. Unless you can download the game code but not be able to play it without a license, while sharing one license in multiplayer?

<nu>faust

31-Oct-2005, 17:14

may be i'm too much of a sceptic but i still don't undertsand how revolution can match xbox 360 and ps3 in terms of power,be size of 3 dvds stacked together and still cost substantially cheaper than those two. I mean look at graphical quality of some the first gen 360&ps3 titles such as gears of war and metal gear solid 4, can rev really be able to produce that kind of visual fidelity?

Also another thing i find hard to belive is late summer /early fall 06 release , from what i know sony finalized ps3's during specs late q4 04 and started to send out ps3 dev kits as early as spring 05. Nintendo in the other hand is still discussing the final specs of rev hardware and telling devs that nothing is finalized yet so...arent they little bit behind the schedule if they are really thinkin' a late summer early fall launch? I know a direct comparison between sony development/production schedule and nintendo's is not %100 fair one, of course nintendo always relied on its 1st party and they dont really need 3rd party support right away at the launch but considering the fact that they havent even released zelda:twilight princess yet , i really think that a proper/successful worldwide launch before 2007 is not feasible.

Readykilowatt

31-Oct-2005, 17:23

I mean look at graphical quality of some the first gen 360&ps3 titles such as gears of war and metal gear solid 4, can rev really be able to produce that kind of visual fidelity?

Yes.

avaya

31-Oct-2005, 17:24

Yes.

At SD resolutions ;)

Xeno

31-Oct-2005, 17:47

Yes.

Maybe if the Rev is encased in an ice cube

mckmas8808

31-Oct-2005, 18:05

At SD resolutions ;)

Yep SD resolutions only probably. HD yeah right.

Refreshment

31-Oct-2005, 18:06

About playing with one copy of the game with multiple Revs:

This is great. Revolution is small in size so is less of a pain to move it around, plus the WIFI, great for local matches withouth all those cables liyng around. Imagine every multiplayer game at least with some arenas to play with one copy (but with limitations) like we get now with the DS. I never understood how with the built in hardrive on the xbox1 no one tried this.

Better frame rates for the N64 games. Obviously, if true, we'll also get 640*480 resolution and maybe 480P scan. My only problem with most N64 games is the low resolution. I can tolerate the low poligon counts and frame rates in games like Majora Mask or Golden Eye, heck i see then almost as enjoyable as current gen games baring the resolution problems.

Finally, reserve judgement on the graphics comparisons to XBOX360 and PS3 until they unveal the games.

Teasy

31-Oct-2005, 18:23

may be i'm too much of a sceptic but i still don't undertsand how revolution can match xbox 360 and ps3 in terms of power,be size of 3 dvds stacked together and still cost substantially cheaper than those two.

Revolution isn't the size of 3 DVD cases stacked together. It'll be around twice that size. Still very small compared to the other consoles, but then so was GC (it was also much cheaper then PS2 and XBox). Also Merrick said there won't be any significant difference in graphics, he didn't say Revolution will have the exact same processing power. What he's saying is that Revolution's graphics won't look out of place next to the other two systems, it will look next gen. Just like GC's graphics weren't out of place this generation next to PS2 and XBox.

Refreshment

31-Oct-2005, 18:30

I wish it was the size of 3 DVD cases.

But they use the analogy as an aproximation even thoguh the prototype they showed at E3 was bigger. I mean we have to agree is easier to picture mentally 3 DVD cases than imagine an abstract volume measure, like 7'' * 10'' * 4''.

fearsomepirate

31-Oct-2005, 19:04

But how could any games be played with only one copy on Revolution? Seems like an impossibility to me. Unless you can download the game code but not be able to play it without a license, while sharing one license in multiplayer?

It's clearly not impossible, because they've already done it on DS. You download enough code to play the game along with a level or two and a few cars/skins/football teams/etc, and when you shut the machine off, it all disappears into the netherworld. Have you played DS? The single-cart multiplayer is always a very stripped-down version of the full-fledged multiplayer. Usually there are no more than 2 or 3 levels available (often only 1) only a few game options, and a limited selection of playable characters. There's never anything like a full co-op mode or 27 DM maps. The entire thing is stored in RAM, and when you shut the DS off, you lose everything.

Shifty Geezer

31-Oct-2005, 19:16

Yes, but DS is only a few megabytes. We're looking at tens of megs at least, and for storage for level data surely 100's of megabytes. Unless only a few simple games actually support this and it doesn't apply to all games. eg. Consider the next Metroid Prime. For something that look as good as XB360 or PS3, surely there's going to be lots of data dtreaming into 256/512 MBs RAM. I'd be surprised if 50 MB's were enough for a basic game. Now consider a player at home who owns and hosts the multiplayer, and 5 friends connecting to play multiplayer. They'll need to access 50 MB each of host player's game data. He's going to be uploading 50 MB's x 5 players on a 256 Kb upload. I make that over 2 hours of uploading!

DS can boradacst to multiple local consoles at a time, at faster rates than typical broadband uploading, and for much smaller amounts of data. World of difference it seems to me.

jvd

31-Oct-2005, 19:19

Oh yes? Someone with a Rev will be uploading gigabytes of data up over their 256 MBit uplink?

Prob wont be to much fun. But i'm sure after 2-3 mins of streaming to a portion of the flash ram built into the console it wouldn't be that bad. Or it could be 1 copy just for wifi users .

fearsomepirate

31-Oct-2005, 19:32

Yes, but DS is only a few megabytes. We're looking at tens of megs at least, and for storage for level data surely 100's of megabytes.

Executable files remain pretty small. What's Doom 3's .exe, isn't it a few hundred K?

Consider the next Metroid Prime. For something that look as good as XB360 or PS3, surely there's going to be lots of data dtreaming into 256/512 MBs RAM.

It doesn't have to look that good because it's free. It's quite possible to tailor the free download-play levels to be small enough to transfer quickly over a network or even the Internet. For example, if you make a room for a Doom 3 deathmatch with Quake 1-style geometry, single-layered medium-quality textures, a few lights here and there, and only a few normal maps, your map won't be very big, maybe just a couple megs. I don't think you've quite grasped that single-disc multiplayer isn't the full multiplayer game. A freebie doesn't have to look as good as the full version because it's free. The complex, really good-looking levels would only be accessible to someone already owning the disc. Does that make sense? Have some simple levels for download play, and have complex levels for standard everyone-owns-a-copy multiplayer.

DS can boradacst to multiple local consoles at a time

So will Revolution...Xbox made LAN parties easier. DS and Revolution are going to make them a lot cheaper. Merrick also didn't specify whether this would be possible for online gaming or only for local LAN gaming. If it works anything like DS, it would be only local.

Refreshment

31-Oct-2005, 19:35

Again we are talking local area for the sharing and not over the net.

Edit: my response wasnt directed to fearsome, just the guies above you. Just in case :)

OtakingGX

31-Oct-2005, 20:03

LAN play with just one copy of a game would be great. The last time I even attempted networked play was with a Japanese Gundam game on my PSX. The cable to network the PSX's was $20 alone. Luckily the game came on two discs, and each one supported multiplayer.

The Revolution is supposed to come with 512 MB of flash memory for storing downloaded NES/SNES/N64 games. Perhaps a portion of this (50-100 MB) can be reserved for LAN downloads. With 802.11g it wouldn't take more than a few seconds to completely transfer this much data.

Refreshment

31-Oct-2005, 20:22

Kind of "of topic". Since we are talking graphics withouth knowing a single spec of the rev.

I was watching the Famitsu pics of Virtua Fighter 5 and the game is quiet impresive, anyway for what i understand the game is running on the Lindbergh (SP?) board, wich in itself is a PIV 3.0 ghz with Nvidia based graphics (not sure wich series) and 1gb of RAM. What im trying to express is that this board is obviously inferior (save for the RAM) to the 360 and the PS3, yet the results are satisfactory for a next gen game. Plus its coded on standar PC hardware, yet with enough atention from developers the results speack for themselves.

So, can we expect the Revolution be in the same level of performance as the Linbergh?

Rur0ni

31-Oct-2005, 20:51

I expect same level of graphics(provided thats what a developer is shooting for), at a lower resolution. SD vs HD. Though 'late game', nearing the end of the consoles lives, I expect PS3 to be kicking a bit of butt. In regards to rev anyway. ;)

<nu>faust

31-Oct-2005, 21:09

Revolution isn't the size of 3 DVD cases stacked together. It'll be around twice that size. Still very small compared to the other consoles, but then so was GC (it was also much cheaper then PS2 and XBox). Also Merrick said there won't be any significant difference in graphics, he didn't say Revolution will have the exact same processing power. What he's saying is that Revolution's graphics won't look out of place next to the other two systems, it will look next gen. Just like GC's graphics weren't out of place this generation next to PS2 and XBox.

i see your point but still imo what they promising sounds too good to be true. From what i have read, nintendo basically promises 1- a really fast machine which will be in the same league with competitors' big boys (contrasting their earlier statements about rev's specs being be only 2-3 times faster than cube) 2- a really small machine,many times smaller than their competetion (which is a cost increasing, spec limiting factor) 3- the cheapest machine(with advanced capabilities like has a built-in wifi,wiless gyration controller..) .From my perspective,to deliver that kind of machine either a-they will have to receive a a huge loss per unit or b-they will have to sacrifice from power and/or capabilities.

Titanio

31-Oct-2005, 21:11

Remember that Nintendo in one respect (pixel-shading power) only requires a fraction of the power of the other systems to be competitive, because it'll only be dealing with a fraction of the resolution. From that perspective, they can "look the same", without need for nearly as much power.

In other respects - CPU/vertex shading etc - well, we'll see.

fearsomepirate

31-Oct-2005, 22:43

(contrasting their earlier statements about rev's specs being be only 2-3 times faster than cube)

Nintendo never made an official statement stating anything about Rev's specs being triple that of the Cube's (not that a 1.5 GHz G5 with a 485 MHz SM 3.0-based GPU and 3x the pipelines of Flipper would be all that bad for 480p games). That was a something Perrin Kaplan, who by her own admittance knows nothing about hardware (she's in marketing--if you've ever worked with marketing people, you know they're rarely tech savvy), threw out there because she thought it would sound good. Obviously, she was wrong, as spec whores want to hear 30x and 25x more powerful and multiple teraflops. The "two to three times" number means NOTHING. It's the kind of number my mom might throw out if she compared my Gamecube and my N64.

pc999

31-Oct-2005, 22:44

v0rt3x

01-Nov-2005, 00:22

I figure i'll post it here since it hasn't been posted...

Miyamoto interview in Businessweek.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_45/b3958127.htm?campaign_id=rss_magzn

nothing new except this caught my eye...

In the future, what do you think video games will be like?
It's convenient to make games that are played on TVs. But I always wanted to have a custom-sized screen that wasn't the typical four-cornered cathode-ray-tube TV. I've always thought that games would eventually break free of the confines of a TV screen to fill an entire room. But I would rather not say anything more about that.

nihilistcanada

01-Nov-2005, 04:40

rabidrabbit

01-Nov-2005, 06:16

And they say Kutaragi's ideas are far-fetched and crazy ;)

But I like these kind of both feet high off the ground scifi visionaries.

01-Nov-2005, 14:08

i see your point but still imo what they promising sounds too good to be true. From what i have read, nintendo basically promises 1- a really fast machine which will be in the same league with competitors' big boys (contrasting their earlier statements about rev's specs being be only 2-3 times faster than cube) 2- a really small machine,many times smaller than their competetion (which is a cost increasing, spec limiting factor) 3- the cheapest machine(with advanced capabilities like has a built-in wifi,wiless gyration controller..) .From my perspective,to deliver that kind of machine either a-they will have to receive a a huge loss per unit or b-they will have to sacrifice from power and/or capabilities.

Or launch on 65nm when that's available at later date.

Teasy

01-Nov-2005, 14:54

i see your point but still imo what they promising sounds too good to be true. From what i have read, nintendo basically promises 1- a really fast machine which will be in the same league with competitors' big boys (contrasting their earlier statements about rev's specs being be only 2-3 times faster than cube) 2- a really small machine,many times smaller than their competetion (which is a cost increasing, spec limiting factor) 3- the cheapest machine(with advanced capabilities like has a built-in wifi,wiless gyration controller..) .From my perspective,to deliver that kind of machine either a-they will have to receive a a huge loss per unit or b-they will have to sacrifice from power and/or capabilities.

But Nintendo haven't promised not to sacrifice power to some degree. As you said they have promised it will be in the same league, that's all. Which is why its not to good to be true.

mckmas8808

01-Nov-2005, 16:05

I figure i'll post it here since it hasn't been posted...

Miyamoto interview in Businessweek.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_45/b3958127.htm?campaign_id=rss_magzn

nothing new except this caught my eye...

This is the type of stuff I love about the Japanese developers. Hi-tech scifi thinking. Miyamoto and Ken Kutarugi are in the same league and on the same page in my book.