View Full Version : This week's LB rumour
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 09:08
I think i should have this weekly thread. I'm getting lots of things lately and well even though they're just "rumours", it's nice to discuss the implication IF they turn out to be true...
The latest is the 400$ ps3 launch. Some want to claim that ram won't be more than $30. Ram will most likely be the most expensive parts in both for the systems. Especially for the PS3 since it's using two different rams, one of which isn’t in production. Not to mention that the Cell cpu has about 100M more transistors than the Xcpu and that the RSX is in one part and is the size of the two parts of the Xenos. Add in the more expensive PCB as there are more ports on the system. Then let's not forget about the Bluray drive that is a) not a finalized standard b) not mass produced.
What we are hearing from the higher ups is that Sony is watching MS closely. They are very interested in the two SKUs which they recently tested in Japan (PSP and PSP Value Pack) and they are going to look at the X360 launch and see if a second SKU would be worthwhile to them. We are told pricing will be 400/500$ if Sony goes that route. One of the rumors is that the 400$ version is only a dvd player . The other version is that the 500$ version has a hardrive and the 400$ version doesn’t .
Again that little rumour we heard somewhere else before from a completely different source...
DISCLAIMER: DO NOT FLAME THE MESSENGER. REPEAT, CEASE YOUR FIRE! DO NO FLAME THE MESSENGER.
Titanio
28-Oct-2005, 09:11
Whilst this thread will undoubtedly live on under the protection of "anything is possible", I think this has to be one of the most unlikely rumours I've heard about PS3 ;)
L-B: You quote this as if it came from somewhere else. Link, please? I hope you're not trawling other boards for random rumours..the first thread was kind of funny, but this could get annoying quick.
rabidrabbit
28-Oct-2005, 09:14
$400 version only a DVD player?? Gaming amd Blu-ray would not be in that version... but it wouldn't be a Playstation then anymore, but a... DVD player, and you can get a very good one already for much less than $400.
Sorry, but that shot down the credibility of that rumour :)
Are you getting these again from hey69? What's wrong with you two :D
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 09:20
Whilst this thread will undoubtedly live on under the protection of "anything is possible", I think this has to be one of the most unlikely rumours I've heard about PS3 ;)
L-B: You quote this as if it came from somewhere else. Link, please? I hope you're not trawling other boards for random rumours..the first thread was kind of funny, but this could get annoying quick.
:shock: :shock: NEVER!!! I seriously NEVER visit any other forum, i'm faithful to B3D and alwas will!
This rumour was an email, and apparently it comes from the Gamestop conference they have every year before the holidays.
As i said, don't shoot me. Pretty please. It's just that we keep hearing this thing relating to the Bluray drive, and whether it ends up true or not, it seems that this Bluray drive is getting lots of attention for the wrong reasons.
Mefisutoferesu
28-Oct-2005, 09:24
Nah, this is a silly rumor. You have to remember PS3 is Blu-ray's free ride. There's no way in heaven Sony would hurt one of it's babies. Especially if that baby has the potential to bring in HUUUUUUUGE royalties.
PC-Engine
28-Oct-2005, 09:27
DVD only doesn't make sense unless they plan to release games only on DVD.
This week LB rumour contradicts his last rumour :)
Titanio
28-Oct-2005, 09:32
:shock: :shock: NEVER!!! I seriously NEVER visit any other forum, i'm faithful to B3D and alwas will!
I'm sorry ;)
As i said, don't shoot me. Pretty please. It's just that we keep hearing this thing relating to the Bluray drive, and whether it ends up true or not, it seems that this Bluray drive is getting lots of attention for the wrong reasons.
I ain't shooting you, no one is. But you can't hide behind "don't shoot the messenger" when people ask for something to back this up! :)
scificube
28-Oct-2005, 09:37
I call shens on the source of this rumor. (not you LB)
sytaylor
28-Oct-2005, 09:43
They launched the PS2 at massive cost to themselves as an expensive shiny toy. It worked.
They will launch the PS2 at massive cost to themselves as an expensive shiny toy. It will work.
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 10:12
I ain't shooting you, no one is. But you can't hide behind "don't shoot the messenger" when people ask for something to back this up! :)
I can't?? I thought the "Don't shoot the messenger" gave some kind of diplomatic immunity! :shock:
:wink:
Shifty Geezer
28-Oct-2005, 10:22
I ain't shooting you, no one is.I am. Well, I'm shooting at him. I just keep dang well missing :evil:.
Hey LB. Would you mind just standing on this cross here, just for a second?...
X
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 10:24
I am. Well, I'm shooting at him. I just keep dang well missing :evil:.
Hey LB. Would you mind just standing on this cross here, just for a second?...
X
I can't stand still.
Fafalada
28-Oct-2005, 10:55
This rumour was an email, and apparently it comes from the Gamestop conference they have every year before the holidays.
You sure it wasn't just one of those strange objects stuck in your ears whispering to you?:oops:
Guden Oden
28-Oct-2005, 10:57
I am. Well, I'm shooting at him.
Don't do that; L-B likes it when people shoot on him. :lol:
Anyway, what's up with posting these crazy rumors eh? And no more of that "oh noez ps3 will be teh xpensive because of all the USB ports!" crazyness either, ports hardly cost anything. They're a tiny bit of folded metal and plastic for grud's sakes.
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 10:57
You sure it wasn't just one of those strange objects stuck in your ears whispering to you?:oops:
I have objects stuck in my earse without me knowing?!!!! :shock:
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 10:59
Don't do that; L-B likes it when people shoot on him. :lol:
Anyway, what's up with posting these crazy rumors eh? And no more of that "oh noez ps3 will be teh xpensive because of all the USB ports!" crazyness either, ports hardly cost anything. They're a tiny bit of folded metal and plastic for grud's sakes.
Oh please everyone knows PS3 will be teh expansiv becuz of the shiny shine silvery metaly case thingy!
Fafalada
28-Oct-2005, 11:01
I have objects stuck in my earse without me knowing?!! Well you were the one insinuating things about them in some other thread not me :razz:
But anyway, this has lots its funny, having to explained it.
Edit: on second thought that was very sneaky use of Italics dammit, I'm too tired to notice subtleties like that.
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 11:02
Faf where are you working these days? And what you working on? You can tell me! :grin:
Fafalada
28-Oct-2005, 11:09
Me? I'm studying Giantology now, it's really interesting.
And still spending most of my time in Seoul.
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 11:15
Me? I'm studying Giantology now, it's really interesting.
And still spending most of my time in Seoul.
.... Faf.... STOP DOING THAT!!! I actually googled Giantology..... :lol:
what they meant was :
ps3 core pack (just ps3 with regular bleuray movie playback)
ps3 value pack (with built in harddisk etc..)
they will see how the x360 sells in those configs and will try to do the same
Remember sony launched their psp in core and valuepack in japan and the valuepack was a very big succes. thats why they dropped the standart pack in the EU and USA
(50 euro extra for 5euro of equipment extra you get, nice business!)
thats it.
this news is fully supported by me :)
Why would Sony do such a silly thing. That would undo everything they gained for BR.
It be more silly of sony to jepordize the launch of PS3 for Blueray alone. If it comes down to sony needing to get PS3 on to shelves, I'm sure they will sacrifice blueray.
Shifty Geezer
28-Oct-2005, 12:46
I disagree. BluRay means bigger games. If they sacrifice BluRay it means games need to be released solely on DVDs for compatibility. Which means there's no need to buy the BluRay version unless you want to play BluRay movies. And there aren't any BluRay movies.
Losing the BluRay drive loses the trojan 'n million BluRay players in homes' horse. No longer are these players sat there waiting for content, and the advantage of BluRay in PS3 goes out the window meaning it's a straight fight player vs. player in the HD format war.
Given the benefit to Sony for winning the format war outright, they'll postpone PS3 to get BluRay drive in there rather than launch without. Unless they're insane.
It be more silly of sony to jepordize the launch of PS3 for Blueray alone. If it comes down to sony needing to get PS3 on to shelves, I'm sure they will sacrifice blueray.
But they have almost won the battle. Now to think about removing BR from PS3 would be catastrophic. Infact that would boost 360's prospects in potential customers eyes.
Won what battle? The Blue ray vrs HDDVD? sure, but what's more important? winning the high def DVD battle or winning the console battle. Putting blueray in ps3 was always a risky move from many pespectives. They sorta have a gut check coming up. They need to ask themselves if the benefits of having blue ray in PS3 will out weigh the potential risks.
Shifty,
I think sony would be more crazy to delay PS3 over blueray. Blueray doesn't necessarily mean bigger games. what it does mean is more expensive disk production costs for publishers, less manufacturing choices, having to delay PS3 titles being worked on, and for sony delaying thier launch further could allow MS to sell even more units and gain a foothold in what is currently thier market to lose. From my what I've seen with every console launch, I don't think the majority of games will even need a disk with the cpacity of Blue ray.
think about blue ray form a publisher perspective. I mean sure, you'll see most publishers come out and say 'it allows us to make better games" but that isn't really a concern to them. What is a concern is "money". publishers don't care if develoeprs can fill one, two or three DVD's with content. what they do care is how much does this extra space needed for the game cost them.
Yes it would be sny's trojan horse, but not at the risk of losing market share in the one market that is profitable for this company. That would really be foolish.
Shifty Geezer
28-Oct-2005, 13:45
I'd say the BluRay battle is more important. PlayStation will sell anyway. Delaying an extra 3-6 months will give XB360 and extra what...1-3 million users? If those 1-3 million users are lost from PS3 (that is were going to get PS3 but decide instead to get XB360), that'll cost Sony how much? They'll save a lot on the initial hardware and lose, net, only some million in dollars I guess, maybe tens of millions. Which is next to nothing in the long term. Sony can pursue all sorts of other ways to get customers with their clever marketting and already immensely strong brand. Whereas they only have ONE chance to get BluRay inot their console so it's in every PS3 owners house, who without it as tandard will likely buy the cheap version as BluRay adds absolutely nothing other than movie playback. And that'll cost Sony billions in long-term BluRay revenues.
I can't see how delaying 6 months will cost Sony a substantial cut of the market. What they lose in early adopters and a few months extra sales, they can use to strengthen launch lineup and increase demand. Unless they really piss the devs off who are waiting to release their PS3 software, and they all go elsewhere and PS3 gets no software which kills the console...
Won what battle? The Blue ray vrs HDDVD? sure, but what's more important? winning the high def DVD battle or winning the console battle. Putting blueray in ps3 was always a risky move from many pespectives. They sorta have a gut check coming up. They need to ask themselves if the benefits of having blue ray in PS3 will out weigh the potential risks.
Yeah, but LB last rumour was that PS3 will play Bluray only no DVD, and this one say there will be DVD only PS3 SKU.
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 14:16
Yeah, but LB last rumour was that PS3 will play Bluray only no DVD, and this one say there will be DVD only PS3 SKU.
Oh erm did it? I can't even remember err...
Hey i'm like The Inquirer, one day i'll get the right one!! :twisted:
I think i should have this weekly thread. I'm getting lots of things lately and well even though they're just "rumours", it's nice to discuss the implication IF they turn out to be true...
Again that little rumour we heard somewhere else before from a completely different source...
DISCLAIMER: DO NOT FLAME THE MESSENGER. REPEAT, CEASE YOUR FIRE! DO NO FLAME THE MESSENGER.
Whats the source of the rumor?
It be more silly of sony to jepordize the launch of PS3 for Blueray alone. If it comes down to sony needing to get PS3 on to shelves, I'm sure they will sacrifice blueray.
Sony is relying on both PS3 and BR.They will support both as much
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 14:34
Whats the source of the rumor?
Can't say yet.
Alpha_Spartan
28-Oct-2005, 14:35
I think i should have this weekly thread. I'm getting lots of things lately and well even though they're just "rumours", it's nice to discuss the implication IF they turn out to be true...
Again that little rumour we heard somewhere else before from a completely different source...
DISCLAIMER: DO NOT FLAME THE MESSENGER. REPEAT, CEASE YOUR FIRE! DO NO FLAME THE MESSENGER.
I love you, LB. Well, actually I just love your rumors. Without them, you're just another lad.
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 14:43
I feel your love. And everyone else's. Really i do.
Alpha_Spartan
28-Oct-2005, 14:48
I can see the Sony apologists right now if this turns out to be true:
"This is the best move ever! Sony is giving their userbase a choice. How nice of them!"
"PS3 will definately debut at no more than $400! Not everyone wants Blu-Ray!"
"My TV doesn't accept HDMI, so I can't watch Blu-Ray movies anyways! I win!"
"Sony gives gamers a choice. No one loses!"
"Even Sony's "'Tard Pack" is equal the Xbox 360 Premium. So what does that make the Core System? The Quadrapalegic Pack?
I'd love to be on the Internet if this was true. Hours and hours of fun!
valioso
28-Oct-2005, 15:13
I can see the Sony apologists right now if this turns out to be true:
"This is the best move ever! Sony is giving their userbase a choice. How nice of them!"
"PS3 will definately debut at no more than $400! Not everyone wants Blu-Ray!"
"My TV doesn't accept HDMI, so I can't watch Blu-Ray movies anyways! I win!"
"Sony gives gamers a choice. No one loses!"
"Even Sony's "'Tard Pack" is equal the Xbox 360 Premium. So what does that make the Core System? The Quadrapalegic Pack?
I'd love to be on the Internet if this was true. Hours and hours of fun!
ROFL
while I doubt this rumor pretty heavily, it would make sence I mean we don't really NEED blu-ray to make next gen possible, it would be nice but not if they can't ATLEAST get a 4X player in the PS3 anything less than tjhat would make loading times just out of control, we all know first gen drives suck ass nio matter who makes them and yes they will be very costly to Sony. So like I said I doubt this to be true I could see it happening.
Shifty Geezer
28-Oct-2005, 15:26
we all know first gen drives suck ass nio matter who makes themOut of curiosity, why should this be? With the first CD drives it made sense as it was new tech, and DVD...same sort of tech but developing new hardware still...maybe things could go wrong. (I'm not sure what does go wrong or why first gen drives are bad BTW). But with a couple of decades developing optical drives, that all use the same tech principles, why should BluRay suffer problems? I mean, PSP is a first-gen version of the UMD format but I'm not hearing any problems. And won't things like a thinner coating actually be easier? Is the problem simply a matter of motor components accurate enough for the small track sizes?
Can some smart egg explain what the possible weaknesses for a launch blue-laser drive are? And then explain, why if you're such a smart egg, you're reading one of LB's rumour posts!
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 15:27
I'm still not too sure how a BDROM is NEEDED for next gen games but i'll stop here before creating another monster.
Arnie Pie
28-Oct-2005, 15:29
"Even Sony's "'Tard Pack" is equal the Xbox 360 Premium. So what does that make the Core System? The Quadrapalegic Pack?
Harsh..! But some idiot will go around saying stuff like that...
Well anyway, obviously this rumor is false. A PS3 without blu-ray defeats the purpose of PS3's with blu-ray in the first place. And with movie studios citing PS3 specifically as an advantage, and with all Kutaragi's said about blu-ray's inclusion - I think it's a safe bet it's in there.
Alpha_Spartan
28-Oct-2005, 15:58
Harsh..! But some idiot will go around saying stuff like that...
"'Tard Pack" is worse enough. But "Quad Pack" takes the cake!
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 16:03
Well anyway, obviously this rumor is false. A PS3 without blu-ray defeats the purpose of PS3's with blu-ray in the first place. And with movie studios citing PS3 specifically as an advantage, and with all Kutaragi's said about blu-ray's inclusion - I think it's a safe bet it's in there.
Yeah but just imagine for a second if it ISN'T there by default. Would that be teh endzorz of teh Sony?
Yeah but just imagine for a second if it ISN'T there by default. Would that be teh endzorz of teh Sony?
If it isn't, then I would say that were a very serious blow, absolutely.
Shifty Geezer
28-Oct-2005, 16:08
It'd make the HD format wrs more prolonged and interesting.
L-B your starting to enjoy hitting the hornets nest with the stichk aren't you?:lol:
london-boy
28-Oct-2005, 16:44
L-B your starting to enjoy hitting the hornets nest with the stichk aren't you?:lol:
Ta da da da daannn I'm lovin it!
There's talk about DVD and its successor bringing in hundreds of millions or billions a year in patent royalties. After getting all this studio support because of the prospect of Blu-Ray in every PS3, it would be stupid to segment the market. Not saying Sony absolutely won't do it but it would be stupid.
There would have to be a hell of a lot more than a HDD, unless that thing was over 200 GB, to justify a $100 price delta for the HDD SKU. And what are they going to do with that kind of storage on a game console? DVR? They should be chastened by the PSX experience.
L-B has to be loyal to B3D, as his 15k post count attests. But a cry for attention is not out of the question.:razz:
RancidLunchmeat
28-Oct-2005, 17:33
Well anyway, obviously this rumor is false. A PS3 without blu-ray defeats the purpose of PS3's with blu-ray in the first place.
Isn't that the same exact argument that was used against MS's HDD-less X360 as well as MS's possible HD-DVD X360?
If MS somehow believes these things are possible or have value, why wouldn't Sony believe the same thing?
Also.. as far as quality/size of games go, what? Half (?) of the games next generation will be X360/PS3 ports. Are those cross-platform games going to be designed for BR and then "downsized" to DVD for the X360? Or is it more likely, they'll be designed around the storage capacity of the DVD to begin with?
So all you'd be losing in terms of game quality are the PS3 exclusives that might like the extra space of the BR. A loss, sure.. but not a console killer.
And I agree with Qroach.. Sure, Sony wants the PS3 to have BR for reasons we all know. But the argument has also been discussed that the timeline of the PS2/DVD isn't the same as the PS3/BR. BR isn't close to being in the same level of adoption as DVD was, the user base that can benefit from BR isn't close to being the same level as the user base that could benefit from the DVD in the PS2.
Maybe Sony has realized that including a BR in the PS3 isn't really a selling point, and will just make the console more expensive and delay its launch unacceptably.
And with movie studios citing PS3 specifically as an advantage, and with all Kutaragi's said about blu-ray's inclusion - I think it's a safe bet it's in there.
He's also repeatedly said how expensive the PS3 has been and the reaction from gamers and analysts has been "No way.. it can't possibly be that expensive, it'll never sell!"
Isn't that the same exact argument that was used against MS's HDD-less X360 as well as MS's possible HD-DVD X360?
No it's not, as blu-ray is a format the larger SOny group is trying to push, and a good bit of their financial well being in the mid to long-term future could be affected by it's success or failure.
If MS somehow believes these things are possible or have value, why wouldn't Sony believe the same thing?
Also.. as far as quality/size of games go, what? Half (?) of the games next generation will be X360/PS3 ports. Are those cross-platform games going to be designed for BR and then "downsized" to DVD for the X360? Or is it more likely, they'll be designed around the storage capacity of the DVD to begin with?
So all you'd be losing in terms of game quality are the PS3 exclusives that might like the extra space of the BR. A loss, sure.. but not a console killer.
Again I don't think that the games themselves are where the blu-ray inclusion is important.
And I agree with Qroach.. Sure, Sony wants the PS3 to have BR for reasons we all know. But the argument has also been discussed that the timeline of the PS2/DVD isn't the same as the PS3/BR. BR isn't close to being in the same level of adoption as DVD was, the user base that can benefit from BR isn't close to being the same level as the user base that could benefit from the DVD in the PS2.
Well, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.
Maybe Sony has realized that including a BR in the PS3 isn't really a selling point, and will just make the console more expensive and delay its launch unacceptably.
But that's just the thing - I feel blu-ray inclusion is a strong selling point. It is for me at least. Maybe we should do a B3D poll on the matter, to be voted on by individuals who are presently interested in the PS3.
He's also repeatedly said how expensive the PS3 has been and the reaction from gamers and analysts has been "No way.. it can't possibly be that expensive, it'll never sell!"
Well, I'm one who believes it'll launch at around $400, so I can't take myself out of this situation and view it from your angle; IMO Kutaragi's just setting everyone up for the feeling of 'bargain!' when the price is finally announced.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet some $$$ on the blu-ray inclusion though. ;)
RancidLunchmeat
28-Oct-2005, 17:57
No it's not, as blu-ray is a format the larger SOny group is trying to push, and a good bit of their financial well being in the mid to long-term future could be affected by it's success or failure.
I was referring to your statement that DVD versions of the PS3 would make the BR version useless.
You were talking in financial terms in that statement, meaning that nobody would then purchase the BR version of the PS3?
Again I don't think that the games themselves are where the blu-ray inclusion is important.
Which is a sad commentary, which is the exact reason that HD-DVD nor BR are in the X360, and is exactly why Sony might be considering removing it and it's costs especially if it leads to significant launch delays.
But that's just the thing - I feel blu-ray inclusion is a strong selling point. It is for me at least. Maybe we should do a B3D poll on the matter, to be voted on by individuals who are presently interested in the PS3.
Do we need to do a poll? Can't we just look at HDTV sets sold in Japan, US and European markets for the past few years that included HDMI inputs and projections of those sales for the next 5 years and then compare those numbers to the numbers of PS2's sold and do an extrapolation?
Well, I'm one who believes it'll launch at around $400, so I can't take myself out of this situation and view it from your angle; IMO Kutaragi's just setting everyone up for the feeling of 'bargain!' when the price is finally announced.
So despite all the comments from Kutaragi and others that the PS3 is going to be expensive, and despite these rumors that are based around Sony offering multiple versions because of cost concerns, you still can't disconnect yourself from the situation enough to contemplate the plausibility of the possibility?
I was referring to your statement that DVD versions of the PS3 would make the BR version useless.
Ok, what statement did I make along those lines? I remember saying no such thing. Link me at will.
You were talking in financial terms in that statement, meaning that nobody would then purchase the BR version of the PS3?
Refer to above - I don't know what you're talking about.
Which is a sad commentary, which is the exact reason that HD-DVD nor BR are in the X360, and is exactly why Sony might be considering removing it and it's costs especially if it leads to significant launch delays.
Sure - but I doubt it'll lead to delays.
Do we need to do a poll? Can't we just look at HDTV sets sold in Japan, US and European markets for the past few years that included HDMI inputs and projections of those sales for the next 5 years and then compare those numbers to the numbers of PS2's sold and do an extrapolation?
The PS3 will be sold for roughly ten years, as will the PS2, as was the PS1. They've already stated 'relevence' down the line as a key design concern for them, and I doubt very highly with Sony's new push to target the high-end TV market primarily, that PS3 being ready for, ahem, the HD-Era isn't central to their thinking.
So despite all the comments from Kutaragi and others that the PS3 is going to be expensive, and despite these rumors that are based around Sony offering multiple versions because of cost concerns, you still can't disconnect yourself from the situation enough to contemplate the plausibility of the possibility?
Hey, you may think me the fool here - that's fine.
I've already posted elsewhere (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=606561&postcount=79) in this forum why the chip costs to Sony this time around will be less than they were for the PS2. The *only* x-factor, as it were, is the blu-ray inclusion.
It'll be some time though before we know which one of us is right or wrong. Certainly, I'm voting for myself. ;)
scooby_dooby
28-Oct-2005, 18:20
Isn't that the same exact argument that was used against MS's HDD-less X360 as well as MS's possible HD-DVD X360?
Yes, That was the argument I used, adamantly, about why I didn't believe X360 would drop the HDD.
By dropping making the HDD an add-on they would lose most of the benefit of the HDD in the first place since it could no longer be used for games. In addition, the HDD was the one Key advantage they had over the competition IMO.
But, they went ahead and dropped it anyways.
scooby_dooby
28-Oct-2005, 18:23
But that's just the thing - I feel blu-ray inclusion is a strong selling point. It is for me at least. Maybe we should do a B3D poll on the matter, to be voted on by individuals who are presently interested in the PS3.
But people like you would gladly pay an extra $100 for the BR enabled PS3 right?
While anyone who didn't see BR as a major selling point (a large portion of the 80% of SDTV users, and the majority of the marketplace) could save $100.
This allows Sony to reach the HDTV audience that matters, i.e. the ones that will go out and buy BR movies. While still being able to meet demands and their launch schedule. If they went this way, they could probably do 80% dvd, 20% BR ps3's, because I honestly don't think there is a very large demand for BR playback outside of HDTV owners.
I'm not saying I believe this though, I would still put my money on a $400 BR PS3, one SKU.
But people like you would gladly pay an extra $100 for the BR enabled PS3 right?
Removing BR doesn't mean it will cheaper for us consumers.
scooby_dooby
28-Oct-2005, 19:04
Removing BR doesn't mean it will cheaper for us consumers.
Obviously if they were to sell 2 versions, the one without BR would be cheaper.
Obviously if they were to sell 2 versions, the one without BR would be cheaper.
But why would they sell two versions (BR \ non BR) bec'se then they would be neither here nor there.
Just to chime in my opinion here (that is all these topics converge on in the end - opinion differences)...
Simple economics says it is in Sony's interest to get as many BR players out as possible even if they do cost in the inital stages. BR is a very extendable format (moreso than HDDVD) with potential for huge capacities over multi-layer disks and should last for a reasonably long time. As it gets royalties for the technology here (either every BR branded product pays a royalty or just players) it is ideal if it can establish a large market which will buy disks to soak up inital costs. Hardware costs go down, but royalties stay fixed over the product life cycle so Sony will make more and more as time passes. MS though are not going to get royalties from this and so putting a drive in would, although allow various things, not make a great deal of sense if the cost now is large as there is no chance of redemption via royalties.
Another seemingly amazing fact being brandished here is that "KK" said it would be expensive. Have any of you seen the announcement of this? As soon as he said it he was laughing indicating to take it lightly. Even then, all consoles are initally expensive - I remember people in the UK paying around $600 for a PS1 in the first year of release. Microsoft is the first one to try this multiple package option that allows for a cut-down cheaper edition, previously everything was 'in the box'. It makes good business sense to take the 'wait and see' approach which is what Phil (forget the name - Harrison?) said they would do. If consumers don't find it complex Sony said they would do it - all they were pointing out was that MS is following an untried model.
Oh and you guys seem to have massively missed the point as regards costs. As Sony has itself got all the patent libraries, controls royalty ownership, etc. etc. it is not going to charge itself double. A lot of the parts are standard commodity parts! Yes Cell etc. have had millions in R&D thrown at them but the R&D is expected to last and with Sony's chip fabrication capabilities (think how many Walkman's, TV's etc.) it will be cheap to produce. It will also be even cheaper (and this is a very neglected fact) because yields are almost irrelevant - if one SPU doesn't work fine, stick it in a set-top box to handle cable decoding, only got 1 SPU sell it as a DSP (this is not nuts go look at the FFT capabilities).
Isn't that the same exact argument that was used against MS's HDD-less X360 as well as MS's possible HD-DVD X360?
If MS somehow believes these things are possible or have value, why wouldn't Sony believe the same thing?
Also.. as far as quality/size of games go, what? Half (?) of the games next generation will be X360/PS3 ports. Are those cross-platform games going to be designed for BR and then "downsized" to DVD for the X360? Or is it more likely, they'll be designed around the storage capacity of the DVD to begin with?
So all you'd be losing in terms of game quality are the PS3 exclusives that might like the extra space of the BR. A loss, sure.. but not a console killer.
And I agree with Qroach.. Sure, Sony wants the PS3 to have BR for reasons we all know. But the argument has also been discussed that the timeline of the PS2/DVD isn't the same as the PS3/BR. BR isn't close to being in the same level of adoption as DVD was, the user base that can benefit from BR isn't close to being the same level as the user base that could benefit from the DVD in the PS2.
Maybe Sony has realized that including a BR in the PS3 isn't really a selling point, and will just make the console more expensive and delay its launch unacceptably.
He's also repeatedly said how expensive the PS3 has been and the reaction from gamers and analysts has been "No way.. it can't possibly be that expensive, it'll never sell!"
You fail to see that Sony sees value on Blue Ray generally and not specifically BR value on the game department.
They invested on BR.Removing BR from the PS3 ensures reducing value from the BR investment.They have the need to do anything possible to promote it.If they fail to make BR a succesful medium will mean that money were invested for nothing.That they threw money just like that.
Ooops sorry for the double post but I forgot to mention..
Having 2 products one with BR and one without doesn't make any sense at all for the long-term. KK said this was supposed to have a 10year lifespan and compression technology has pretty much reached its limits. Yes we can do things like better motion estimation, procedural content generation but this is not going to stop the cases where you need to compress something losslessly which in the Hi Def era is what people will want. Why buy a huge TV to display degraded content (though you can argue with this and question why people buy MP3s and play them on stereos)? To have one product that will reach its expiry date far quicker is irrational and though it may make sense to early purchasers (I buy a PS3 with no BR cheap now, then I buy one with BR when the price drops in 3 years) it would simply piss a lot of people off having to ditch a console to buy a game.
MS with hard-disks has this base covered as you can buy a drive to plug in. The same could be done with PS3 using a laptop-esque solution but this doesn't make sense.
Alpha_Spartan
28-Oct-2005, 20:15
I can't believe that some of you actually buy this "ten year" BS. Next gen console technology will be obsolete at the end of 2006 much less 2016.
I can't believe that some of you actually buy this "ten year" BS. Next gen console technology will be obsolete at the end of 2006 much less 2016.
Alpha, my simple friend - how long was PS1 sold for? How long will PSTwo be sold for? See where it's going? PS3 around for ten years doesn't mean that PS4 won't debut five years from now. It simply means PSThree's will still be being sold.
valioso
28-Oct-2005, 21:01
as much as they have been saying that the xbox can't be next gen cause is still using dvds for games... it would be quite a blow to their loyal following arguments against MS
MoeStooge
29-Oct-2005, 01:36
I could see either this rumour and/or LB's previous rumour about a single layer Bluray drive being true. If Sony has to go up against a new Nintendo console that is priced much lower in Japan and against a Microsoft console that is already somewhat entrenched in the U.S. (with a timely strategic price drop possible), then they might feel some pressure to keep a low price option available. They have a lot of Cell and Bluray R&D costs to get back too.
I am starting to get the impression of the blind leading the blind and l-b laughing as they all walk off the cliff.
Bobbler
29-Oct-2005, 02:11
I am starting to get the impression of the blind leading the blind and l-b laughing as they all walk off the cliff.
LB is leading the way though -- he'll be the first to hit the ground!
No he just figured out he has enough cred to start rumors so he just decided to throw one out there and see where it leads. He then proceeds to watch what happens.
Oh and just because he may be fed rumors doesn't mean he himself believes them.
TrungGap
29-Oct-2005, 02:41
It's not fair the l-b gets immunity (for being the messenger). ;)
First of all, I don't think there's any indication that BR will cause the PS3 launch delay. So, the second point which is cost.
Okay, BR is expensive in term of R&D. The actual cost to manufacture the drive isn't going to a fold more expensive. The BR stand alone play are expensive is because of the manufacturers need to recoup the cost of development. Okay, MK will reduce the cost to manufacturers, but it's not something they can recoup with the sales of software or royalty. Which is something that Sony can get. Cost difference could easily be done by the harddisk along. IMO, PS3 will be no more +$100 than 360, though it probably isn't the same PS3 announced at E3.
Okay, for argument sake, let's say BR is delayed. Will it delay the PS3 or should the PS3 launch without BR? Personally, I don't think Sony need BR in PS3 to make BR successful. BR has practically won the war, there's no need for a Trojan plan. However, Sony must not loose too much ground to MS. They can't afford to delay the PS3. They will probably do a Japan release only (without BR), and follow up to US and Europe by the year end or (at the lastest) early next year (with BR). That should give them plenty of time to prefect BR for those two market and reintroduce PS3 with BR back to the Japanese market. The limited PS3 without BR to the Japanese market is a symbolic release, to buy them time. Trust me, the japanese market is used to getting half-baked product.
Of course, all this not going to happen, because BR won't delay the PS3's launch.
typoEDR
29-Oct-2005, 17:09
Blu-Ray has to be in the PS3, or else it loses one of the advantages the system has over the X360. In all honesty, these rumours are incredibly stupid. I'm going to take a guess and say some launch games will go over 9GB in storage (HD video, for example), so a Blu-Ray-less PS3 would mean that you're buy a cripped system that can't play games.
Sony may be 'desperate', but they are not 'incredibly stupid'.
i heard there's a sku without gpu ,it's called 'Budget"
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