View Full Version : Xbox 360 screws up Walmart's wireless devices
mckmas8808
24-Oct-2005, 08:45
Now this is a crazy report about the Xbox 360 screwing up wireless equipment in Walmart stores across the country. Read below.
After our report last week (http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000347064516/) that the Xbox 360 might be interfering with wireless devices in use at Wal-Mart, more anecdotal evidence has trickled in. There may now be enough evidence to warrant deeper investigation.
There’s no reason to get worried about the Xbox 360 launch date (there, we recognized the elephant in the room), but the breadth and frequency of these reports point to a compatibility issue between the Xbox 360 and Wal-Mart, at least.
2.4 RF will screw with the Symbol handhelds which are pretty much the backbone of Wal-Mart day to day business. That’s probably why they shut the consoles off. Even wireless speaker system demos that run on 2.4 will screw things up. — bb
the walmart i live by and sadly work at, has a problem with the hand scanner not working properly because of the 360. strange indeed. — darksar
work at walmart…. the truth is that the 2.4ghz interferes with our “Smart”system. nation-wide all walmarts had to stop using the pa system, because costumers complain, so 360’s 2.4 is a scapegoat. at my store we use wireless home theater systems as our excuse — BugX
I work at a Wal Mart here. We had a problem like this too. But with us it crashed our SMART system, which made all handheld terminals not function. Those handheld devices use a wireless network to function and somehow it interfered with that. — Charlie
Went to the Ypsilanti, MI Walmart yesterday and they had the 360 there but it was not turned on because the electronics person said it was interferring with their photo lab. A rep is supposed to come this week and fix it. It looked good but would have liked to have played it. — Krista
The WalMart in Lansing, MI has one, but it’s not running because Peggy, Mildred and Linda (not their real names, but pretty descriptive of the old ladies working this dept) in the electronics department SWEAR that it’s screwing up their cash register scanner. I don’t believe it, myself. I think that the MS rep didn’t set it up, and the WalMart yokels screwed up the 360 by setting it up themselves before they were supposed to do it. — XenoCorpse
Inline kiosk is up in Walmart in Kewanee, IL but not playable. According to the guy at the electronics counter: “it screws up all of our electronics” — vidGuy
Maybe 2.4 GHz wasn't the best thing to go with.:???:
What do you guys think?
Link http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000410064738/
Odd..
shouldn´t this be a problem in ALL the wal-marts that MS has 360 kiosks?
I will not be playing xbox360 on a plane, thats for sure :) ...
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 08:58
What protocol is XB360's wireless? If not WiFi or BlueTooth I'm guessing a proprietary format? How much overlap with home electronics?
This is kinda embarrasing though, launching new kiosks only for them not to work. And shows some of the troubles with wireless. I've a couple of friends who bought wireless PS2 controllers but they're so troublesome and glitchy I prefer the wired controllers. Though I hear good things of Wavebird, is wireless really robust enough to be so widely used? And how can the WalMart staff mess up the setup to cause conflicts with their wireless systems? Can the frequency be selected or something?
Something more fundemantal to take into consideration is, The controllers in the demo pods are USB. The demo pods do not use any wireless features, so Walmart should look elsewhere for the problems.
Titanio
24-Oct-2005, 09:50
Maybe 2.4 GHz wasn't the best thing to go with.:???:
2.4Ghz is pretty standard. Lots of things use it, including wifi, Bluetooth, and probably your microwave. IIRC, it's the "open band" that you don't need a license to use, hence why everything uses it.
Apparently Walmart has to turn off a lot of stuff they sell because of this.
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 10:08
Something more fundemantal to take into consideration is, The controllers in the demo pods are USB. The demo pods do not use any wireless features, so Walmart should look elsewhere for the problems.Would not the console still be emitting wireless tranmissions to look for devices (wireless controllers) remotely? I think if the evidence is there that when the XB360 was introduced problems appeared, it must be something to do with the hardware. Though of course once the story gets out the moment anything goes wrong some people will start pointing fingers at the XB360 even if unrelated.
The problem might also be Wal-Mart's scanners in the first place... Old models? Bad shielding?
Edit - could be (from the Joystiq link)...
the scanners they use operate around 900Hz, they cant use cordless phones cuz they mess with the outdated system
mesyn191
24-Oct-2005, 10:35
Sounds like BS to me.
As another poster stated pretty much everything uses 2.4Ghz these days. PC's (802.11b,g), phones, microwaves, PDA's, you name it...
All of these things interfere with each other as they all use the same frequency band, X360 or no X360 you'd be having problems with all of them in the same building on at the same time.
Shifty: It uses plain old 802.11a,b, and g which are universal standards.
Also if Pugger is correct and the pods aren't using anything wireless then there is no way its possible for X360 to be causing the interference as in order to get a 802.11x signal with X360 you need the wireless adapter add-on which you have to buy seperately....
mckmas8808
24-Oct-2005, 10:41
I think some of those people posting that information were real Wal-Mart employees though.
BTW: I can't imagine the pods using wireless. You don't want to recharge those things right?
I also suspect the 360's wireless reciever / transmitter to be off by default untill you try to bind a controller...
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 10:57
Also if Pugger is correct and the pods aren't using anything wireless then there is no way its possible for X360 to be causing the interference as in order to get a 802.11x signal with X360 you need the wireless adapter add-on which you have to buy seperately....The Wireless networking needs the WiFi adapter, but what about the wireless controllers? Surely these aren't 802.11x or else why's a $100 WiFi adapter needed if the tranmitter/reciever hardware is already included in the console?
Just to put an end to the wireless controllers discussion...
http://www.xbox365.com/coranto/pgi.cgi?id=GGGruGdPLG04221653&f=Xbox_360_54.jpg
http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGGidrGGGG05251111
I also think it's very unlikely they have WiFi enabled on those retail setups.
mesyn191
24-Oct-2005, 11:48
Shifty:
The controllers use infrared signals, no 2.4Ghz or 900Mhz signals are coming from the base unit at all without the wireless adapter as the adapter also functions as the antenna.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzY4
"Right above the MU slots is a infrared controller window for the controller that will come with your Xbox 360. It is very much like any other CE controller you might see except with the big Xbox Guide Button on it, the same as is on the top middle of the wireless game controller, again with the ring of lights."
The Wireless networking needs the WiFi adapter, but what about the wireless controllers? Surely these aren't 802.11x...
The controllers use infrared signals...
Nope. It's a custom design.
Only the remote control uses infrared.
Brimstone
24-Oct-2005, 11:59
Like it has been pointed out already, why would the wireless aspect of the Xbox 360 crash anything if the controllers are plugged in via usb?
Comon, this quote in paticular comes across as ridiculous.
Went to the Ypsilanti, MI Walmart yesterday and they had the 360 there but it was not turned on because the electronics person said it was interferring with their photo lab. A rep is supposed to come this week and fix it. It looked good but would have liked to have played it. — Krista
How the hell could a wireless device screw with the stores photolab? They don't have photolabs next to consumer electronic departments at Wal-Mart stores.
robofunk
24-Oct-2005, 12:02
Sounds like the problem is with the scanners. This is Walmart we're talking about so they'll probably switch to wired controllers within the next few days.
I highly doubt this will interfere with Wi-Fi. If anything some 2.4Ghz cordless phones (the shit ones that interfere with Wi-Fi) might disconnect your controller from the 360, not the other way around.
london-boy
24-Oct-2005, 12:05
Why would the X360 pods use the infrared controllers?! Think about it. They need to be attached and secured to the pods or people will just start taking them home (or trying anyway). Therefore the controllers can just be the wired ones, or wireless ones always plugged in for "charging".
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 12:10
Just to put an end to the wireless controllers discussion...
http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGGidrGGGG05251111
I also think it's very unlikely they have WiFi enabled on those retail setups.If those are wired controllers, how come there's no wires into the controller (USB) ports on the front of the XB360 console? It's possible the controllers are wirelessly connected to the console but with seperate power line and secure fastening.
london-boy
24-Oct-2005, 12:15
If those are wired controllers, how come there's no wires into the controller (USB) ports on the front of the XB360 console? It's possible the controllers are wirelessly connected to the console but with seperate power line and secure fastening.
.... that doesn't make much sense....
If those are wired controllers...
Read point 4. :)
There's also USB on the back of the unit.
Titanio
24-Oct-2005, 12:27
It's been suggested elsewhere that the Samsung displays in the demo pods could be creating the interference, but I'm not sure how plausible that is..?
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 12:57
Read point 4. :)
There's also USB on the back of the unit.Point four of what? :???: Best I could find regards XB360's wired controller support was wired controllers attach to the units USB ports, of which there's 2 at the front and 1 at the back. So unless both controllers attach through a USB splitter, which might be done for aesthetics, wouldn't 2 wired controllers be attached through the 2 USB ports on the front?
rabidrabbit
24-Oct-2005, 13:00
Can the Walmart employees sue Microsoft if they get cancer and they think it's because of the radiating xbox360's?
Point four of what?
Of that link I posted. I think they want to create the feeling of wireless, but since the controllers have to be wired (power) why would they opt for anything else but the default wired ones?
LunchBox
24-Oct-2005, 13:07
maybe the subliminal messages walmart is transmitting to make consumers inside the store to buy more stuff is getting mixed with the subliminal messages the X360 kiosks is transmitting so people will buy the system...
then UFOs will come and bring their anal probes while leprechauns are being chased around by little kids because their "lucky charms" are so damn good...
then bigfoot apears demanding his money back coz the razor he bought from walmart is defective...
it could also be a crazy off-the-wall rumor from god knows where...
or an ill, viral marketing campaign against the X360 launch coming from it's direct competitors...
or...
... maybe it's just a coincidence due to those archaic walmart devices breaking down from the wear and tear of usage, just in time for those X360 kiosks to apear in the store...
p.s.
i'm a little drunk so if i misspelled something or if i don't make sense... don't bother pointing it out...
Helstar
24-Oct-2005, 13:27
X360 uses WiFi, 802.11b abd probably 802.11g too.
Both 11b and 11g works on 2.4GHz.
There are 11 channels available, and you can use 3 of them (1,6 and 11) and the same time, in the same air space, with NO interference.
PSP uses 802.11b , works exactly like that.
Also, I´m SURE you can turn off the radio when you are not using it... so anyone just set the X360 correctly (correct channel), and people should have no problem at ALL.
X360 uses WiFi, 802.11b abd probably 802.11g too.
802.11a, b and g are confirmed.
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 13:42
Of that link I posted. I think they want to create the feeling of wireless, but since the controllers have to be wired (power) why would they opt for anything else but the default wired ones?Can anyone who's seen one of these things confirm an apparent USB controller cable in the back? There ought to be 2 cables, power and TV, if the controllers are wireless, and 3 if the controllers are joined in the back, no?
Guden Oden
24-Oct-2005, 14:20
X360 uses WiFi, 802.11b abd probably 802.11g too.
Blah. You need to buy the hundred dollar ripoff wireless USB device to get wifi for x360. The controllers use a proprietary protocol (on the same frequency band I assume), and I expect the controller transciever in the base unit to be ALWAYS active, because how else would the console know you were trying to play with it if all you had was a wireless controller?
Powderkeg
24-Oct-2005, 14:24
This doesn't effect me at all. I've never used a hand scanner at home.
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 14:25
Though it will affect the general public if no-one shows XB360 kiosks because they scramble the services a store relies upon to operate :p
I agree, it sounds like it's the 360's wireless controller signal (whether there are wireless controllers present or not) that is causing the interference. As others have pointed out, the 360's in the Wal-Mart's likely don't even have their Wi-Fi enabled at this point, since why would Wal-Mart outfit them with the add-on?
With the 360 being as hot of an item as it is, it stands to reason that so many Wal-Mart's wouldn't be shutting down their kiosks unless they truly had cause to feel that the issues were emanating from those same kiosks.
Powderkeg
24-Oct-2005, 14:52
And silly me, I would have thought MS would use a core 360 in the kiosks. That would have given them the wired controller and no problems. Of course that is also the easiest solution, just replace the controllers with wired ones.
And silly me, I would have thought MS would use a core 360 in the kiosks. That would have given them the wired controller and no problems. Of course that is also the easiest solution, just replace the controllers with wired ones.
Powederkeg you're not getting it. The core console *still* sends out the wireless signal. The fact that wireless controllers aren't present has nothing to do with it. The core console works with wireless controllers you know. It just ships with a wired one.
Brimstone
24-Oct-2005, 14:58
This isn't even confirmed to be true. That website says it warrants futher investigation and they come to that conclusion based off of some forum posts.
london-boy
24-Oct-2005, 14:59
I think it's the Ghostbusters Trap causing interference. Those are powerful things...
This isn't even confirmed to be true. That website says it warrants futher investigation and they come to that conclusion based off of some forum posts.
Well, someone call one of these Wal-Marts and confirm! Man, let's not get too stuck on receiving information through the Internet. ;)
It's like the New Orleans levee break thing - everyone saying they broke one day when actually they broke the night before. How can these things not be known or corroborated?
blakjedi
24-Oct-2005, 15:19
802.11a, b and g are confirmed.
11a operates at 5.2 ghz from 1-54 Mbps
11b operates using DSSS @ 2.4 ghz from 1-11Mbps
11g operates using OFDM @ 2.4 Ghz from 1-54Mbps
If what you say is true pipo (that .11a is standard in x360) then they could switch all x360s nationwide to that protocol and end their problems immediately. If not use .11b on channel 11 (the least used channel of that spectrum).
valioso
24-Oct-2005, 15:20
I went to my local wal mart, but they had no x360 present. back to the weather danny
Ok, I called this Wal-Mart (as it was indicated in the original post):
Wal-Mart Supercenter
730 Tenney St
Kewanee, IL 61443-3702
Phone: (309) 853-3307
...and spoke to an individual in electronics.
They confirmed that indeed they have a 360 kiosk and indeed they have shut it down due to supposed serious interference with their '940s' (or whatever). So, it's real. (I swear they need me in FEMA ASAP)
Anyway @Blakjedi - wireless controller signals man, not Wi-Fi! ;)
blakjedi
24-Oct-2005, 15:40
Ok, I called this Wal-Mart (as it was indicated in the original post):
Wal-Mart Supercenter
730 Tenney St
Kewanee, IL 61443-3702
Phone: (309) 853-3307
...and spoke to an individual in electronics.
They confirmed that indeed they have a 360 kiosk and indeed they have shut it down due to supposed serious interference with their '940s' (or whatever). So, it's real. (I swear they need me in FEMA ASAP)
Anyway @Blakjedi - wireless controller signals man, not Wi-Fi! ;)
Oh wire them suckers up then! :-)
BTW in nearly every best buy they have wireless xboxs and ps2s hooked up to widescreen Hdtvs for people to play madden.... no known interference there so its all walmart
Oh wire them suckers up then! :-)
BTW in nearly every best buy they have wireless xboxs and ps2s hooked up to widescreen Hdtvs for people to play madden.... no known interference there so its all walmart
No no my man - it's not the fact that they're using wireless controllers - because indeed the theory is that they are not. It's simply that the 360 is constantly sending it's signal out, searching for wireless controllers in it's vicinity. Granted that's just a theory, but I accept it far more readily than I accept the Wi-Fi thing, since those 360's shouldn't even have the wireless module onboard.
blakjedi
24-Oct-2005, 15:52
No no my man - it's not the fact that they're using wireless controllers - because indeed the theory is that they are not. It's simply that the 360 is constantly sending it's signal out, searching for wireless controllers in it's vicinity. Granted that's just a theory, but I accept it far more readily than I accept the Wi-Fi thing, since those 360's shouldn't even have the wireless module onboard.
OK so its some proprietary wireless signal for controllers thats hosing up wm scanners? proprietary usually will mean that nothing else could get hosed up by its signal... curious...
OK so its some proprietary wireless signal for controllers thats hosing up wm scanners? proprietary usually will mean that nothing else could get hosed up by its signal... curious...
I'll refer you to post #31 of this thread.
Joe DeFuria
24-Oct-2005, 16:09
...and I expect the controller transciever in the base unit to be ALWAYS active, because how else would the console know you were trying to play with it if all you had was a wireless controller?
Isn't there a button on front of the console to "re-establish" connections with controllers?
I don't know if the 360 has to always have the transciever active. It might, but it might also power itself off after a certain amount of time with no peripherals detected. Then if you have a wireless controller, you just press the button on the front of the console...
I think it's the Ghostbusters Trap causing interference. Those are powerful things...Good news is WalMart hasn't had to schedule any exorcisms for ghosts since the kiosks arrived. Unfortunately many employees have disappeared as well since the 'Trap' can't distinguish between the two as they both mysteriously disappear whenever you’re looking for them. :grin:
-aldo
Isn't there a button on front of the console to "re-establish" connections with controllers?
I don't know if the 360 has to always have the transciever active. It might, but it might also power itself off after a certain amount of time with no peripherals detected. Then if you have a wireless controller, you just press the button on the front of the console...
The button is there to bind (new) controllers.
At the very least the X360 has to look for the wireless controllers when the console is in standby mode. I'd also expect the tranciever to go into sleep mode if it doesn't find any / doesn't have any previously binded ones...
Wouldn't that make sense?
NavNucST3
24-Oct-2005, 16:25
nvm, see above.
The button is there to bind (new) controllers.
At the very least the X360 has to look for the wireless controllers when the console is in standby mode. I'd also expect the tranciever to go into sleep mode if it doesn't find any / doesn't have any previously binded ones...
Wouldn't that make sense?
It would certainly make sense, but it would also make sense that there is no Wi-Fi signal emanating from the 360's as well, since the modules likely aren't attached. So, the wireless controller signal would then be the next logical culprit. I mean, unless it's just the massive EM radiation coming off of the power brick though. ;) (j/k!)
It would certainly make sense, but it would also make sense that there is no Wi-Fi signal emanating from the 360's as well, since the modules likely aren't attached.
Sure.
I mean, unless it's just the massive EM radiation coming off of the power brick though. ;)
That's the most likely thing IMHO. ;)
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 17:39
So really what we need are specs for the wireless controllers to see if they're operating in a frequency that might cause trouble. From what I know all we have on the controllers is 'they're wireless' without any explanation what they use, either coms protocols (type of data packets) or transmission type (IR, Gamma, Ultraviolet, cosmic radiation band or whatever). Plus we don't know for sure if the controllers are wired or not until someone takes a nose round back. At least the console is conveniently placed in a plastic bubble for total viewability which'll make that an obvious yes/no observation for our field agents, whoever they turn out to be.
So really what we need are specs for the wireless controllers to see if they're operating in a frequency that might cause trouble.
2.4 GHz.
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 17:55
Can I ask where that info's from?
valioso
24-Oct-2005, 18:04
Can I ask where that info's from?
MS has mentioned that before on interviews and the E3 conference I believe.
Yup. Look on the official specs or search for any interview with Todd Holmdahl. :)
expletive
24-Oct-2005, 19:03
What protocol is XB360's wireless? If not WiFi or BlueTooth I'm guessing a proprietary format? How much overlap with home electronics?
This is kinda embarrasing though, launching new kiosks only for them not to work. And shows some of the troubles with wireless. I've a couple of friends who bought wireless PS2 controllers but they're so troublesome and glitchy I prefer the wired controllers. Though I hear good things of Wavebird, is wireless really robust enough to be so widely used? And how can the WalMart staff mess up the setup to cause conflicts with their wireless systems? Can the frequency be selected or something?
On Major Nelson's podcast this morning he talked (at the very end) about how the 360 wireless controllers were designed sepcifically to NOT interfere with home 2.4ghz electronics. Apparently symbol scanners were designed the same way. I got the idea this shouldnt be a problem once you get the thing in your house.
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 19:18
Yup. Look on the official specs or search for any interview with Todd Holmdahl. :)Found it. Thanks...
http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p2/
Speaking of wireless technology, Sony has revealed they are using Bluetooth wireless technology for the PlayStation 3. What technology is Microsoft using for the Xbox 360? Is it a standard wireless technology like Bluetooth or WUSB or are you using a custom made technology?
Todd Holmdahl: Custom 2.4GHz technology.
This suggests as Expletive says, if MS's 2.4 GHz tech is slightly off from normal 2.4 GHz tech, and so is Walmart's portable PDA solution, that's what's causing the trouble and won't be any trouble to people at home. The FCC will surely have tested this thing rigorously for compatibility with the airwaves too. Sounds like a one-off unfortunate hardware conflict. Poetic justice for MS IMO for all the times my PC's have had a particular untraceable incompatibility. :twisted:
Shifty Geezer
24-Oct-2005, 19:31
Just to confirm this problem is official now...
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1403&Itemid=2
Wal-Mart has confirmed to Next Generation that it has shut down "a handful" of its Xbox 360 demonstration pods due to interference with the company's electronic retail systems.
A spokesperson for the retailer told Next Generation, "As we began setting the Xbox 360 up in sample kiosks in our stores we've found that, in a handful of some of our older stores, the devices are interfering with our Telzon printouts. We're working with Microsoft to correct this and should have Xbox sample kiosks available and working in all of our locations in the next few weeks."
I've bolded key points, which might be PR fluff or legitimate observations as to how widespread this is.
Alpha_Spartan
24-Oct-2005, 20:41
No no my man - it's not the fact that they're using wireless controllers - because indeed the theory is that they are not. It's simply that the 360 is constantly sending it's signal out, searching for wireless controllers in it's vicinity. Granted that's just a theory, but I accept it far more readily than I accept the Wi-Fi thing, since those 360's shouldn't even have the wireless module onboard.
I don't think that theory's true. You have to press a button on the console itself and on the controller for them to bind. The console does not search for wireless controllers without user intervention.
The Xbox 360 controller is using a proprietary 2.4GHz wireless frequency, not IR. The IR is for the remote.
I don't think that theory's true. You have to press a button on the console itself and on the controller for them to bind. The console does not search for wireless controllers without user intervention.
The Xbox 360 controller is using a proprietary 2.4GHz wireless frequency, not IR. The IR is for the remote.
Who's talking about IR? I still think it's the controllers though. Certainly once 'binded' the consoel would automatically begin transmitting/receiving each time it starts up, and though I agree it would make sense if the 360 went into 'cool down' mode after some time not having found anything, there is truly nothing else that I can envision as causing the interference (unless you go with the power brick EM theory).
The Wi-Fi is simply not on - it must be some other signal. But, what other signals are there? Only one that I can think of...
scooby_dooby
24-Oct-2005, 20:56
What's the point of the X360 constantly searching for wireless controllers? Even if it finds them, it can't do anything until recieving user input from the "bind" button located on the front of the console..
So, if you were to flowchart this, the logical way to implement it would be to wait for user input(bind button), then start searching. If no signals found in a certain period of time, 1 or 2 minutes stop searching.
Anything other than that implementation would be moronic unless I'm missing something....
XBD - I see what you're saying though, if there are interferences they must be coming from somewhere, and the wireless controller seems like the only possible explanation...
scooby_dooby
24-Oct-2005, 21:04
Also, what happens when you have 2 X360's, press teh bind button on both, then press the bind on teh controller. Does it bind to both consoles? How does it know which one to bind to?
rabidrabbit
24-Oct-2005, 21:05
Kotaku seems to have an official explanation from MS
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/microsoft-confirms-issue-with-360-wireless-at-kiosks-132822.php
That Kotaku article helps, and it's cool of Microsoft to respond to queries so promptly.
I don't think anyone here ever thought it would interfere with anything in the home environment, as strange as this whole episode was, and it's good to see MS confirm that it won't. It's really more of a headache for them than anything else, and as long as everything is up to snuff in the kiosks around Thanksgiving time, I think that's all that matters. (the system will sell out for sure - it's the word of mouth 'awe' factor that really matters here for MS)
Scooby: Great point on the multi-console thing; it could make for some wacked-out 360 LAN parties!
from article:
Q: How can I be assured that Xbox 360 isn’t going to interfere with other wireless devices in my home?
A: This issue is specific to the equipment used in a few retail environments. Xbox 360, like portable phones, wireless network routers, and Bluetooth devices emit radio frequency operate in the 2.4GHz band. Microsoft has one of the most robust testing programs in the industry and has ensured that Xbox 360 meets all FCC/ETSI requirements and rules for operation in the 2.4GHz band. It is possible that devices that do not comply with FCC/ETSI rules of operation in this band may not properly handle interference from other 2.4GHz sources. Such devices would be extremely rare in a home environment.
ImaginaryIndustryInsider
24-Oct-2005, 22:03
My local Walmart is about 3 months old, and the XB360 is working just fine...other than it probably being set at 480p. :(
Alpha_Spartan
24-Oct-2005, 22:12
Also, what happens when you have 2 X360's, press teh bind button on both, then press the bind on teh controller. Does it bind to both consoles? How does it know which one to bind to?
It's probably proximity based or timing-based. I mean, if you made a calculated effort to try and confuse the systems, you could. But it's most likely based on timing. You press the console bind button and it advertises an ID of some sort then by pressing the bind on the controllers, you accept the bind invite. So the first four controllers to bind get in.
Now if you tried pressing the bind button on both consoles at the same time, then you'd have to press the bind on all controllers at the same time to "confuse" the system. But you'd have to be lighting fast. I don't think anyone could do it, especially if the precision is within nanoseconds.
Alpha_Spartan
24-Oct-2005, 22:13
My local Walmart is about 3 months old, and the XB360 is working just fine...other than it probably being set at 480p. :(
They're probably using updated equipment.
This suggests as Expletive says, if MS's 2.4 GHz tech is slightly off from normal 2.4 GHz tech, and so is Walmart's portable PDA solution, that's what's causing the trouble and won't be any trouble to people at home.
So if Wal-Mart's having problems with other 2.4 GHz devices because of their ghetto hardware what's that going to mean for the PS3's Bluetooth controllers? What does the Nintendo remote control thing use? Ruh-roh.
mckmas8808
25-Oct-2005, 06:09
This is not the best news that MS would want weeks before their new console releases. Most consumers aren't going to know the difference between a Wal-Mart wireless scanner and their home cordless phone.
This is not the best news that MS would want weeks before their new console releases. Most consumers aren't going to know the difference between a Wal-Mart wireless scanner and their home cordless phone.
I doubt that those people you describe above, Mck, will ever hear one word about this little hiccup. :D
It's only us freaks that follow every ounce of news like this until it makes us blue in the face.
Fortunately (for me ;) ) that will end in 4 weeks 1 hour and 39 minutes. I'll be busy after that (for a while) experiencing reality instead of conjecture. :lol:
I doubt that those people you describe above, Mck, will ever hear one word about this little hiccup. :D
Except that some of these consumers will be going to WalMart only to find out that the kiosks aren't working...and then they might find out why from the various employees.
Is it a crushing blow? Naw, I think MS will fix it before much bad PR makes it out.
Shifty Geezer
25-Oct-2005, 10:03
So if Wal-Mart's having problems with other 2.4 GHz devices because of their ghetto hardware what's that going to mean for the PS3's Bluetooth controllers? What does the Nintendo remote control thing use? Ruh-roh.The suggestion is that MS 'adjusted' their 2.4 GHz tech so it wouldn't interfere with the likes of phones and BlueTooth, but in doing so hit the stores 2.4 GHz systems which also I guess were 'adjusted' so people's mobiles wouldn't interfere. It's unlikely these stores can be messed up by conventional existing formats that are widespread. Or it could just be the packet information the XB360's are sending was being picked up? After all it's a software solutionsthat's fixing this. That could be a firmware shift og the 2.4GHz band though I guess.
Helstar
25-Oct-2005, 17:45
Great, X360 also has 802.11a (5GHz)!!
11a will NOT interfere with b/g, so no X360 should cause harm to any other device, since 11a is still "rare" nowadays.
And 11a has way more channels to use at the same time, not only 3 (1,6,11) like b/g.
Shifty Geezer
25-Oct-2005, 17:54
The inclusion of 802.11a is for use with Wireless networking and MCE data sharing. How many people with a wireless network use 802.11a? So as I understand it this is only really of use for people streaming content from an MCE PC, which is very few. And for the added cost over a basic 802.11b/g wifi adapter I don't think it's worth. Better to provide a 802.11b/g adapter for $30-40 for those that only want this for connecting to the internet and don't care to stream cotent over 802.11a Wifi.
Boy you guys have short term memories. ;)
The wireless controller technology is custom made by RTX Telecom. It was announced back in May 2005.
RTX Telecom announces that the company has been chosen as a development partner for the Wireless Game Pad for Xbox 360
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=9154
http://www.rtx.dk/
Now if somebody can just find out if the technology interface supports wireless headsets that would be cool.
Tommy McClain
The suggestion is that MS 'adjusted' their 2.4 GHz tech so it wouldn't interfere with the likes of phones and BlueTooth, but in doing so hit the stores 2.4 GHz systems which also I guess were 'adjusted' so people's mobiles wouldn't interfere. It's unlikely these stores can be messed up by conventional existing formats that are widespread. Or it could just be the packet information the XB360's are sending was being picked up? After all it's a software solutionsthat's fixing this. That could be a firmware shift og the 2.4GHz band though I guess.
I think more likely they'll just disable it, they're not using it, right?
My guess is the 360 is picking up chatter from the scanners on 2.4 GHz, thinks it could be a controller, broadcasts something to find out for sure and the old Wal-Mart hardware has a heart attack. We'll have to wait and see what happens with PS3 and Rev.
Now if somebody can just find out if the technology interface supports wireless headsets that would be cool.
Yup. Four of them to be exact.
Don't you guys read interviews and stuff? ;)
Edit - here it is...
The Xbox 360 wireless controller has been welcomed with open arms by gamers and the development community, but the launch headset is still wired. Do you plan to offer a first-party wireless headset in the near future? Can the Xbox 360 wireless technology handle 4 wireless controllers and 4 wireless headsets or will that require the use of different wireless technology for both peripherals?
Todd Holmdahl: The Xbox 360 wireless technology was specifically designed for 4 wireless controllers and 4 wireless headsets (headsets can be truly wireless or wireless via the gamepad).
http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p2/
Thanks Pipo! I must have missed that one. Maybe the wireless headset is coming out with the camera? :)
Tommy McClain
expletive
27-Oct-2005, 00:55
Why would someone need a wireless headset when it can plug into the controller? What added level of freedom is 'gained' by haveing a iwreless headset AND a wireless controller? Only way i see it is that you have to now charge the wireless headset as well...
MonkeyLicker
27-Oct-2005, 01:16
The Xbox 360 at one of the Wal-Marts I go to is definitely not using a wireless controller.
My friends who work there opened the case and let me take a look at everything.
The controller was plugged into the rear USB port.
Shifty Geezer
27-Oct-2005, 09:17
Why would someone need a wireless headset when it can plug into the controller? What added level of freedom is 'gained' by haveing a iwreless headset AND a wireless controller? Only way i see it is that you have to now charge the wireless headset as well...I can imagine people forgetting the headsets connected to the controller, putting down the control for a break to get a coffee say, and standing up with the headset still on. Not much though.
expletive
27-Oct-2005, 16:41
I can imagine people forgetting the headsets connected to the controller, putting down the control for a break to get a coffee say, and standing up with the headset still on. Not much though.
Yep. Considering the logitech wireless headset costs $80, i would be afraid of what an MS one could cost.
Why would someone need a wireless headset when it can plug into the controller? What added level of freedom is 'gained' by haveing a iwreless headset AND a wireless controller? Only way i see it is that you have to now charge the wireless headset as well...
Ask that to all the people who are buying all the Bluetooth headsets for cell phones.
Personally, I don't want the extra wire hanging down. Could lead to wire breaks. BTW, there are those things called batteries. No need for charging if that's not your thing. If done right, I could see them costing the same if not cheaper than Bluetooth wireless headsets($30 or less).
Anyway, I hate to bring the PS3 into this, but you know they're going to be touting the Bluetooth wireless headset as a feature. By then Microsoft will most likely have something to compete with it.
Tommy McClain
expletive
28-Oct-2005, 02:33
Ask that to all the people who are buying all the Bluetooth headsets for cell phones.
Personally, I don't want the extra wire hanging down. Could lead to wire breaks. BTW, there are those things called batteries. No need for charging if that's not your thing. If done right, I could see them costing the same if not cheaper than Bluetooth wireless headsets($30 or less).
Anyway, I hate to bring the PS3 into this, but you know they're going to be touting the Bluetooth wireless headset as a feature. By then Microsoft will most likely have something to compete with it.
Tommy McClain
Thing is, a bluetooth headset makes actually holding the cellphone superfluous which is more convenient. With a wireless headset here it doesnt matter becuase you still need to hold the controller, it doesnt change anything.
Didnt really follow your point about the batteries.
I think the wired headset costs $20. I'll be the most surprised guy in the room if the wireless one isnt at least $40(dont forget your wireless headset play-n-charge kit! :) ).
Are you sure about a bluetooth wireless headset for PS3? My understanding was that the PS3 can only support 7 bluetooth devices total(which is why the spec says support for 7 controllers). Which would mean that if youve got 4 controllers, only 3 headsets (The PS3 itself is device number 8). They also admitted that having 2 PS3 in close proximity could cause problems.
Shifty Geezer
28-Oct-2005, 10:08
True, but how many people using a headset are going to have multiple people in the same room with a headset? Aren't headsets for online gaming, which generally means one person per computer/console, rather than split/shared screen?
ihamoitc2005
28-Oct-2005, 10:43
The problem might also be Wal-Mart's scanners in the first place... Old models? Bad shielding?
Edit - could be (from the Joystiq link)...
I have asked wal-mart about this and they said PSP has wireless but did not cause interference so must be something specific about Xbox360. Also display case is setup by Microsoft representative not walmart workers.
True, but how many people using a headset are going to have multiple people in the same room with a headset? Aren't headsets for online gaming, which generally means one person per computer/console, rather than split/shared screen?
currently, on Xbox Live, only the main account holder can use a headset in mulitplayer games when playing split screen. (so, one headset)
the guests are limited (purposely?) in this regard.
I wonder if it will remain the same in 360 Live?
Also, on toipic...
I went to one of my Wal-Marts yesterday to see what all the hub-bub was ;)
beautiful Samsung 720P screen saying...
Component Input 1, NO signal.
The X360 was unplugged from the power supply and anyone I asked regarding if/when it would be up thought I was speaking French. :)
scooby_dooby
28-Oct-2005, 18:13
The inclusion of 802.11a is for use with Wireless networking and MCE data sharing. How many people with a wireless network use 802.11a? So as I understand it this is only really of use for people streaming content from an MCE PC, which is very few. And for the added cost over a basic 802.11b/g wifi adapter I don't think it's worth. Better to provide a 802.11b/g adapter for $30-40 for those that only want this for connecting to the internet and don't care to stream cotent over 802.11a Wifi.
Umm, everyone who has MCE, or Windows Vista.
Very few? Maybe now, in 2 years...I don't think so.
Although, I do agree with you that they should've offered the cheaper b/g adapted as an option. I can only think they did this to avoid confusion with the consumer, with what is already a very complicated console, with it's 20+ accessories or whatever.
valioso
28-Oct-2005, 20:18
I went to my local wal mart today and they had it there some people were playing Kameo... looked much smaller than what I expected after seeing the pictures, the controller felt nice in my hands. and the game looked beautiful.. maybe it did not have AA or whatever.. but most people are not going to care... anyone that can't see the quality jump in graphics is either blind or a snob.
expletive
28-Oct-2005, 20:20
Umm, everyone who has MCE, or Windows Vista.
Very few? Maybe now, in 2 years...I don't think so.
Although, I do agree with you that they should've offered the cheaper b/g adapted as an option. I can only think they did this to avoid confusion with the consumer, with what is already a very complicated console, with it's 20+ accessories or whatever.
I remember reading that something like half of Windows PCs sold last month had Win MCE on them. Seems like its becoming the standard.
Thing is, a bluetooth headset makes actually holding the cellphone superfluous which is more convenient. With a wireless headset here it doesnt matter becuase you still need to hold the controller, it doesnt change anything.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree that it doesn't change ANYTHING. Who says you're always using the controller why chatting? You could just be having a chatting session and not playing online. Could be watching a DVD and you hit the Xbox Guide button on the DVD remote to receive a call from a friend. There's a lot of times you don't want to have to pick up the controller and fumble with the wiring just to use the headset.
Didnt really follow your point about the batteries.
You talked about having another device to charge. No need to charge if it uses standard batteries.
I think the wired headset costs $20. I'll be the most surprised guy in the room if the wireless one isnt at least $40(dont forget your wireless headset play-n-charge kit! :) ).
$40 sounds fine, but anything over $50 probably would never sell. I also doubt the wireless headset would offer a wired connection just because the battery is low.
Are you sure about a bluetooth wireless headset for PS3? My understanding was that the PS3 can only support 7 bluetooth devices total(which is why the spec says support for 7 controllers). Which would mean that if youve got 4 controllers, only 3 headsets (The PS3 itself is device number 8). They also admitted that having 2 PS3 in close proximity could cause problems.
I was under the impression it was just a set limit for the controllers and not a limit on the ammount of Bluetooth devices. If they're not offering wireless headsets for each controller that seems like a big oversight to me. I know a lot pf people will play 4-player splitscreen with Xbox Live each with their own Live account. That would allow each player to have their own headset. Would suck to be the odd man out playing online with a PS3. The proximity issue sucks too. Seems like Microsoft was smart to go with a proprietary technology if all these limitations are due to Bluetooth.
Tommy McClain
NavNucST3
29-Oct-2005, 16:48
Thing is, a bluetooth headset makes actually holding the cellphone superfluous which is more convenient. With a wireless headset here it doesnt matter becuase you still need to hold the controller, it doesnt change anything.
While true if you are holding the controller, you are forgetting that you can control most of the 360 by Remote Control as well, so I could see someone more willing to pick up the remote with a wireless headset than wanting to pickup the controller and pluggin in their wired set. That way you could answer your phone call with the media remote and then just throw it back on the couch, in essence making it a hands-free scenario (after a couple hands-on steps)
Also, according to Major Nelsons blog/podcast Monday, one of the issues with the pods is that they don't have their final software. So some of the issues people have seen with the kiosks should, hopefully, be fixed whenever those changes occur.
It was also mentioned not only on his xxxcast but also on Channel9 that MSFT intentionally went with 802.11a for HD streaming because of the 5Ghz range and lack of noise within that range and for its greater sustained throughput.
NavNucST3
29-Oct-2005, 16:54
I was under the impression it was just a set limit for the controllers and not a limit on the ammount of Bluetooth devices. If they're not offering wireless headsets for each controller that seems like a big oversight to me. I know a lot pf people will play 4-player splitscreen with Xbox Live each with their own Live account. That would allow each player to have their own headset. Would suck to be the odd man out playing online with a PS3. The proximity issue sucks too. Seems like Microsoft was smart to go with a proprietary technology if all these limitations are due to Bluetooth.
Tommy McClain
Communication & Connection
A Bluetooth device playing the role of the "master" can communicate with up to 7 devices playing the role of the "slave". This network of "group of up to 8 devices" (1 master + 7 slaves) is called piconet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piconet).
At any given time, data can be transferred between the master and 1 slave; but the master switches rapidly from slave to slave in a round-robin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-robin_scheduling) fashion. (Simultaneous transmission from the master to multiple slaves is possible, but not used much in practice). Either device may switch the master/slave role at any time.
Bluetooth specification allows connecting 2 or more piconets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piconet) together to form a scatternet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatternet), with some devices acting as a bridge by simultaneously playing the master role in one piconet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piconet) and the slave role in another piconet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piconet). These devices have yet to come, though are supposed to appear within the next 2 years (2007).
more info can be obtained HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Specifications_and_Features)
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