NPD October 2002 TRSTS

[Vince]

FORMAT - DESCRIPTION - CORPORATE - PUBLISHER - UNITS OCT 2002- UNITS LTD 95-02

PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO:VICE TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 1,412,429 1,412,429
PS2 NBA LIVE 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 261,514 261,514
PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS SQUARE EA 219,962 562,371
PS2 MADDEN NFL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 192,380 1,493,787
PS2 HITMAN 2: ASSASSIN EIDOS INTERACTIVE 183,100 221,525
PS2 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR4 ACTIVISION 165,281 165,281
PS2 LORD OF RINGS: TOWERS ELECTRONIC ARTS 148,863 148,863
PS2 NEED SPEED: PURSUIT 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS 135,179 178,415
PS2 TEKKEN 4 NAMCO 126,909 328,752
XBX HITMAN 2: ASSASSIN EIDOS INTERACTIVE 100,511 133,457
PS2 NBA 2K3 SEGA OF AMERICA 98,185 98,185
GCN MARIO PARTY 4 NINTENDO OF AMERICA 97,714 97,714
PSX YU-GI-OH! FORBIDDEN KONAMI OF AMERICA 80,206 553,386
PS2 NHL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 75,813 104,600
GCN STAR FOX ADVENTURES NINTENDO OF AMERICA 73,900 242,176
PS2 RED FACTION II THQ 72,670 72,670
PS2 TIMESPLITTERS 2 EIDOS INTERACTIVE 67,452 67,452
GCN SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE NINTENDO OF AMERICA 66,436 683,796
PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO 3 TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 64,981 4,228,169
PS2 GRAN TURISMO 3:A-SPEC SONY 61,506 2,262,400
XBX TIMESPLITTERS 2 EIDOS INTERACTIVE 61,409 61,409
PS2 SOCOM:U.S. NAVY SEALS SONY 60,292 457,098
PS2 NCAA FOOTBALL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 59,554 603,081
PS2 NASCAR THUNDER 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 58,715 120,426
PS2 CONFLICT: DESERT STORM TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 57,540 69,221
PS2 SPIDER-MAN: THE MOVIE ACTIVISION 57,190 860,667
PS2 JAK AND DAXTER:LEGACY SONY 56,641 661,855
XBX HALO MICROSOFT 54,144 1,522,574
PS2 SUIKODEN III KONAMI OF AMERICA 53,907 53,907
XBX NBA 2K3 SEGA OF AMERICA 53,867 53,867
XBX NBA LIVE 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 53,689 53,689
PS2 LORD OF THE RINGS VIVENDI UNIVERSAL 52,737 52,737
PS2 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR3 ACTIVISION 51,957 1,473,211
GCN ANIMAL CROSSING NINTENDO OF AMERICA 51,277 156,414
PS2 MEDAL HONOR FRONTLINE ELECTRONIC ARTS 47,553 1,230,071
PS2 NBA STREET ELECTRONIC ARTS 47,553 942,073
PS2 CONTRA:SHATTERED SLDR KONAMI OF AMERICA 43,075 43,075
XBX CONFLICT: DESERT STORM TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 43,022 60,483
GCN GODZILLA: DESTRY MELEE INFOGRAMES 40,725 40,725
GCN TIMESPLITTERS 2 EIDOS INTERACTIVE 39,744 39,744
PS2 DEVIL MAY CRY CAPCOM USA 38,396 685,279
PS2 MIDNIGHT CLUB:STREET TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 37,661 831,155
PS2 TEKKEN TAG TOURNAMENT NAMCO 36,547 917,427
XBX NEED SPEED: PURSUIT 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS 35,903 48,819
XBX TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR4 ACTIVISION 35,571 35,571
PS2 ATV OFF ROAD FURY SONY 34,102 914,490
XBX LORD OF THE RINGS VIVENDI UNIVERSAL 33,455 69,356
PS2 STUNTMAN INFOGRAMES 33,110 334,524
XBX MADDEN NFL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 32,867 246,405
PS2 SIMPSONS: ROAD RAGE ELECTRONIC ARTS 32,481 351,334
PS2 SLY COOPER & THIEVIUS SONY 31,828 50,070
PS2 CRASH BANDICOOT:CORTX VIVENDI UNIVERSAL 30,649 555,093
PS2 BURNOUT 2: IMPACT ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT 30,059 33,995
PS2 WILD ARMS 3 SONY 29,688 29,688
PSX SPONGEBOB SUPERSPONGE THQ 29,244 769,504
XBX BLINX: TIME SWEEPER MICROSOFT 28,778 28,778
PSX GH 3RD PTY FAM VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 27,066 36,093
PS2 RESIDENT EVIL CODE: X CAPCOM USA 26,739 556,583
PS2 SPY HUNTER MIDWAY 26,707 487,578
XBX SHENMUE 2 MICROSOFT 26,683 26,683
PS2 STREET HOOPS ACTIVISION 25,562 167,513
PS2 X-MEN: NEXT DIMENSION ACTIVISION 25,462 25,462
PS2 TIGER WOODS PGA 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 25,080 25,080
GCN SUPER SMASH BRO MELEE NINTENDO OF AMERICA 24,684 1,157,712
PSX SPIDER-MAN ACTIVISION 24,342 1,298,886
PS2 NFL 2K3 SEGA OF AMERICA 24,300 151,047
PS2 ROCKET POWER: BEACH THQ 24,095 29,994
PSX BUDGET ASSORTMENT MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 24,094 74,171
XBX NFL FEVER 2003 MICROSOFT 24,077 94,825
PSX GUNDAM:BTTLE ASSAULT2 BANDAI AMERICA 23,892 137,311
PS2 BLOODRAYNE MAJESCO 23,531 23,531
PSX MK TRILOGY MIDWAY 23,490 1,233,139
PS2 ACE COMBAT 4 NAMCO 22,816 543,939
PS2 LEGAIA 2: DUEL SAGA EIDOS INTERACTIVE 22,651 35,252
PS2 ROBOTECH: BATTLECRY TDK MEDIACTIVE 22,560 64,420
PS2 ONIMUSHA 2: SAMURAI CAPCOM USA 22,288 203,527
PS2 NFL BLITZ 2003 MIDWAY 22,119 66,764
PSX FAMILY VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 21,958 28,347
XBX DEAD TO RIGHTS NAMCO 21,886 211,712
GCN TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR4 ACTIVISION 21,795 21,795
GCN PHANTASY STAR I & II SEGA OF AMERICA 21,717 21,717
XBX NHL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 21,484 21,484
PS2 MLB SLUGFEST 20-03 MIDWAY 21,374 262,177
PSX GRAN TURISMO 2 SONY 20,970 2,926,459
PS2 TY TASMANIAN TIGER ELECTRONIC ARTS 20,656 20,656
PS2 WIPEOUT FUSION BAM! ENTERTAINMENT 20,561 49,899
GCN NEED SPEED: PURSUIT 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS 20,090 25,074
PSX SCOOBY DOO & CYBER THQ 19,690 366,630
GCN SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 SEGA OF AMERICA 19,679 92,396
PS2 SCOOBY-DOO:100 FRIGHT THQ 19,354 143,149
PSX MADDEN NFL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 19,312 77,836
PSX SPIDERMAN 2: ELECTRO ACTIVISION 19,224 322,631
PS2 TUROK: EVOLUTION ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT 19,159 100,969
XBX BLOODRAYNE MAJESCO 19,096 19,096
PS2 JAMPACK WINTER 2002 SONY 19,029 19,029
PSX SPORTS VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 18,740 24,095
PS2 RACING VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 18,429 24,068
PSX HARRY POTTER:SORCERER ELECTRONIC ARTS 17,706 964,820
PSX ROCKET POWER: TEAM THQ 17,238 562,856

Thanks to (ie. Shamelessly ripped from) wojf on GA Forums.

[zurich]

Wow, I'm honestly surprised to see as many Xbox titles up there as there are, despite the relatively bland software offerings over the last few months.

11 GC games, 14 Xbox games, 15 PSX and the rest is PS2.

*Looks at Shenmue 2 numbers...* *Shudders*

I can understand why MS is so hellbent on moving hardware, as the huge install base of the PS2 is overwhelmingly influencing software sales.

[archie4oz]

PSX YU-GI-OH! FORBIDDEN KONAMI OF AMERICA 80,206 553,386


Impressive to see the PSX pull these kind of numbers these days (especially in North America)...

PS2 SLY COOPER & THIEVIUS SONY 31,828 50,070

:(

PSX GUNDAM:BTTLE ASSAULT2 BANDAI AMERICA 23,892 137,311


I love the game, but I'm surprised a PSX *GUNDAM* game doing that well! :o

XBX SHENMUE 2 MICROSOFT 26,683 26,683

Sad... :cry:

[V3]

XBX SHENMUE 2 MICROSOFT 26,683 26,683

Ohh well, Shenmue 3 looks like a pretty slim chance. Lets hope it picks up, but some how I doubt it. It probably will do better if this game was released one year ago as a Dreamcast farewell. If there is no Shenmue 3, I am throwing my Xbox out of the window, and I'll run it over with my 4WD and send it to MS office, asking for replacement :evil:

[Dural]

*Looks at Shenmue 2 numbers...* *Shudders*




You do know that it was released on October 30, I believe, so that only represents two days of sales?

[PC-Engine]

The only reason why I haven't gotten Shenmue II yet is because I'm waiting for the devkit styled Xbox.

[Magnum PI]

*Looks at Shenmue 2 numbers...* *Shudders*




You do know that it was released on October 30, I believe, so that only represents two days of sales?

to be more specific is represents the two *first* days of sales !

and a games generally sells the best in these days. so don't expect shenmue 2 to do a decent amount of sales for november..

[Magnum PI]

The only reason why I haven't gotten Shenmue II yet is because I'm waiting for the devkit styled Xbox.

seriously ?? :o
i think it was a hoax !

[Rodéric]

Cool maybe ShenMue 3 will be released on another console...

/me looks at his GameCube ^^

(Since I've both the 1 and 2, I'd like to get the 3, but I don't plan to buy yet another console.)

[PC-Engine]

The only reason why I haven't gotten Shenmue II yet is because I'm waiting for the devkit styled Xbox.

seriously ?? :o
i think it was a hoax !

Where did you hear that?

[Qroach]

If that's the only two days it was on sale, then thats not too bad. We'll have to wait for the next months sales to see how it does. As an example, Grand theft auto 3 didn't sell as well as it did in the first month as it did later on. it actually picked up in sales quite a bit. I'm pretty sure going into Christmas Shunmue sales will increase quite a bit not comparable with GTA3, but more than the 26,000 sold in the first two days.

[Laa-Yosh]

The second numbers are total sales for North America? If yes, then some games are doing pretty badly, only a handful have made it over 300K (which is about the amount needed to get some profit AFAIK).
Are there such lists for PC games as well?

[Qroach]

Actually the average number to start making money (or break even) is around 70,000-100,000 typically (sometimes lower, sometimes higher). It depends on the game mostly, and how much deveopment time was spent. 300,000 copies of a game sold is VERY good! Unless it was a game that was "expected" to sell a million units and only sold 300,000. That's the only way you can be dissapointed with a number like that.

[Laa-Yosh]

Actually the average number to start making money (or break even) is around 70,000-100,000 typically (sometimes lower, sometimes higher). It depends on the game mostly, and how much deveopment time was spent. 300,000 copies of a game sold is VERY good! Unless it was a game that was "expected" to sell a million units and only sold 300,000. That's the only way you can be dissapointed with a number like that.

Hm, are you sure about that?

70,000 * 50 USD is roughly 3.5 million dollars.

Even if 66% of that can go to the publisher and the developer, that's only 2.3 million to cover development, marketing and advertising, manufacturing and shipping...

I'm not sure about exact profit margins though (how much for the retailer and how much for the publisher, etc.) , but I'm pretty sure you can't really develop a normal category title from under 1 million dollar. Budget games might easily go lower than that but then you won't sell for 50 USD each. I still think that 6-number sales are needed for most of today's games to break even.

[Laa-Yosh]

The latest example I could find on Gamasutra was Rouge Leader and it's development budget was 3.5 million. Black and White was 5.7 million but it's obviously an extreme. Most of the other games I've checked out in their features archive had multi-million dollar budgets. Then agian, most of those games are quite high-profile and must've sold well over 100.000 ;)

[Qroach]

Hm, are you sure about that?

70,000 * 50 USD is roughly 3.5 million dollars.

Even if 66% of that can go to the publisher and the developer, that's only 2.3 million to cover development, marketing and advertising, manufacturing and shipping...

Oh yeah, I sure am.:) I'm much mroe invovled with this side of development these days. The publisher doesn't receive that much money ($50) from the game. You need to tack on:

1. The fee for making the game on that platform (ranges from 7-10 dollars if I remember correctly)
2. The fee for packaging (that can go up to 3 dollars)
3. The money distrubutors tack on (sometimes the retailer and distrubuter are the same. like Walmart (I don't recall how much distrubuters tack on)
4. The money retailers tack on, and then you have your street price of $50 US or whatever price you see (Usually 10 percent markup).

Publishers actually make in the teens with the sale of each game. Usually between 10-20 dollars with each copy sold. So 70,000 * $15.00 =$10,50000

As you can see, this would bring back a million dollars, and if it sold say 85,000 units, that's pretty close to the break even point for most titles developed. You of course want to sell more, but for a title (that's not a big name franchise) to sell 300,000 copies it's pretty darn good. Add to that the sales you'd achieve in each region and you could end up making some decent money.

Now I'm talking about "average" video game. Not the big budget projects that cost upwards of 2.5 million to create. The majority of smaller budget console games are still made for anywhere from 700,000 - 1.2 million dollars.

[BoddoZerg]

The one thing I'm surprised by is that individual console games don't actually have higher sales numbers than PC games.

For years we have been hearing that "PC games are dying" and that console games sell bazillions more copies. But if you look at, even big hits like Halo and Grand Theft Auto, the sales are not any better than top selling PC games. Warcraft III shipped 4.5 million and sold 1 million copies in the first two weeks. Halo's been out for a year and its sales are only slightly greater than 1.5 million.

Of course, consoles still have ~2.5-3x the game sales of PC games total. But consider that the number of big-budget console games is rather large (there's TONS of big budget developers on console), while the number of big-budget PC games is much smaller... and PC games are probably more profitable (on average) than console games.

[Qroach]

For years we have been hearing that "PC games are dying" and that console games sell bazillions more copies. But if you look at, even big hits like Halo and Grand Theft Auto, the sales are not any better than top selling PC games. Warcraft III shipped 4.5 million and sold 1 million copies in the first two weeks. Halo's been out for a year and its sales are only slightly greater than 1.5 million.

Well, actually GTA 3 sold upwards of 8 million copies. halo is approaching 2 million units, but there wa salso the problem of not having a large enough installed base for it's first year to compete with the sales of warcraft 3. it's actually VERY rare for a PC title to even break a million copies sold. Warcraft is one of the few exceptions. Same goes for Diablo, Black and White, any Id product, the Sims, etc...

Publishers also make more money off PC titles, since there's no fees to develop for the PC platform. still the prices of most PC products tend to be lower than the consoles for the same reason. it depends on the title. You can actually get buy with less sales (for the most part). However pirating does most PC games in long before they have a chance to sell really well.

[marconelly!]

You do know that it was released on October 30, I believe, so that only represents two days of sales?
Actually, it's probably a bit more. These charts usually track first few days of the next month.

[Laa-Yosh]

Publishers actually make in the teens with the sale of each game. Usually between 10-20 dollars with each copy sold. So 70,000 * $15.00 =$10,50000

As you can see, this would bring back a million dollars, and if it sold say 85,000 units, that's pretty close to the break even point for most titles developed.

Er, that is to cover both the publisher's costs and the developer's costs, am I right? Now marketing and advertising and such can make up for quite a lot of money, so earning 1 million would probably support a budget of $600-750,000. That's not much...

BTW, Halo has sold many copies in Europe as well and should be way beyond 2 million copies by now.

[wazoo]

Publishers actually make in the teens with the sale of each game. Usually between 10-20 dollars with each copy sold. So 70,000 * $15.00 =$10,50000


1,050 000
:)

[Qroach]

Whoops i put the comma in the wrong place :oops:

[Qroach]

Laa-yosh,

Er, that is to cover both the publisher's costs and the developer's costs, am I right?

Actually, that's assuming that the developer and publisher are one in the same. Still, it can be suited for publisher/develoepr arrangements.

Now marketing and advertising and such can make up for quite a lot of money, so earning 1 million would probably support a budget of $600-750,000. That's not much...

That depends how much advertising the game has. The average game doesn't have a lot of advertising and usually sticks to something like magazine print ads/internet banner ads, which is usually pretty cheap.

BTW, Halo has sold many copies in Europe as well and should be way beyond 2 million copies by now.

Not bad from a group that never develoeped a console game in house before :)

[Lazy8s]

Microsoft was supposed to back Shenmue II Xbox with a pretty big advertising campaign. As the rights to that release is officially theirs, however, they possibly decided to cut back from their original ambitious advertising plans when the game failed to build hype in the gaming media and momentum at retail among mass consumers before release. It was their hope when they purchased the rights back in 2001 that the title would be seen as a major release on the horizon for this holiday season, but it didn't work out that way unfortunately.

Still, I don't think Microsoft has started the bulk of their holiday advertising campaign for Xbox yet. They may yet still run television commercials and/or give more exposure for noteable Microsoft Xbox titles released this year like Shenmue II when they start their Christmas Xbox games push. So, the main advertising for the game may just be waiting for the start of the holiday compaign. At least, that's a hope of mine; it would be a shame not to give such an amazing and marketable game the push it deserves.

On the plus side, this Xbox release has at least given the Shenmue series another chance. SEGA management didn't want anything more to do with the series as it had already cost them tens of millions of dollars in losses. SEGA possibly wasn't about to fund more development on it by bringing it to new platforms by themselves, so Microsoft stepping in and buying the rights when no one else would gave the Shenmue series another chance at life. It's not like the 150,000 copies maximum it would've sold on the Dreamcast in the US in late 2001 would've been enough to convice SEGA it was a success. Even if the Xbox release doesn't go on to outsell what a Dreamcast release would have, Microsoft allowed the series to continue on for this new release by being the only party interested and funding a port.

[PC-Engine]

And the only reason why I didn't get the DC version is because the Xbox version has english dubbing :D

[Logan Leonhart]

So, is Sega still intending to continue developing Shenmue games based on part 2´s sales? In any case, I´m glad it got those sales. The game is so inherently flawed and is terribly executed, trying to be so much, yet failing at everything it sets out to do.

[archie4oz]

And the only reason why I didn't get the DC version is because the Xbox version has english dubbing

What subtitles too difficult? :wink: :P

[zurich]

And the only reason why I didn't get the DC version is because the Xbox version has english dubbing

What subtitles too difficult? :wink: :P

In a game like Shenmue, I'd actually preffer Japanese voice tracks. The language is pretty neat sounding (unlike Chinese, sorry, no offence, I just dislike the sound of it, personal opinion here!!), and a lot of games like Onimusha could do well with it.

I'm glad MS let Tecmo keep the Japanese voice tracks for DoA3, as the english dub in DoA2 was beyond horrid. In some cases, like FF X, english voice tracks can be done well, but thats rare.

Anyhow, any Anime lover will agree that Japanese is a cool langage and should not attempt to be replaced!! (look at Dragon Ball Z, shudder)

ps: Sorry for the mishmash grammar and writing, I just came in from sub zero weather and my brain isn't really working.

[PC-Engine]

And the only reason why I didn't get the DC version is because the Xbox version has english dubbing

What subtitles too difficult? :wink: :P

:lol: I hate subtitles period. I would only watch a subtitled movie if I had no other choice. I'd rather have my eyes on the action while my ears do deciphering. :)

[Johnny Awesome]

Wow - 19 of the top 25 titles were made in North America and Europe, including 8 of the top 10 titles. We're seeing the end of Japanese title dominance in a big way, as Ben and I have been predicting. :)

In Novemember, the sales will probably be dominated by the likes of Metroid, Vice City, Splinter Cell, MechAssault, Unreal, and some multi-platform titles. Most of which are of Western origin...

[Lazy8s]

Logan Leonhart:
The game is so inherently flawed and is terribly executed, trying to be so much, yet failing at everything it sets out to do.
You didn't like the beat-em-up Free Battle engine? I thought it was executed remarkably well. The depth of control for battling your enemies in games like Streets of Rage, Double Dragon, and Final Fight is almost non-existent compared to Shenmue.

In Shenmue, you can battle lots of opponents at once using a modified Virtua Fighter engine. Its surprisingly deep, too, allowing for reversals, counters, cancels and parries. Ryo's move list is stunningly large, and the timing for stringing his combos is very similar to Akira from the Virtua Fighter series.

Ryo has a ton of Akira-styled moves, but he has also has access to so many others that he gets the ability to swap them out for new ones and assign them to certain button-command inputs. This allows you to mold Ryo's fighting style to your liking, as your repertiore of over fifty fighting moves come from a variety of fighting styles which you can mix and match to some extent for a uniquely tailored character. It's a lot like a build-your-own Virtua Fighter, and it allows you to customize Ryo's abilities to a specific opponent and to your liking.

I also like how characters teach him these moves. They explain the history and philosophy behind their usage in combat, and they make you learn how to execute it by breaking it down into its components like "take two steps forward" and "strike by shifting your weight on both your arms and legs". This helps the player to understand the control and make it intuitive in battle as you translate "two steps forward" into "pushing forward twice" and "striking with arms and legs" into "pushing punch and kick simultaneously".

Ryo draws from a wide variety of fighting styles, many that are from Virtua Fighter 4 and many that haven't yet even appeared in any of SEGA's fighting games. You can take long-range Kage like moves and mix them with Ryo's Akira-like short and powerful attacks for interesting results. Ryo learns from a quite a few Chinese martial arts and incorporates strategies from them as his quest progresses.

I also think the Shenmue's QTE's (Dragon Lair sequences) are a big improvement over traditional non-interactive FMV CG cut-scenes. When your watching a story segment unfold, you have to pay close attention to clues and progression to be ready in case you're called upon to hit a button. It makes those usually non-interactive scenes much more involving.

[Logan Leonhart]

Well, to be completely honest, I got fed up with Shenmue after wasting my time with the first version and hearing fanboys go on and on about how great it was.

I´ll concede in regards to the underused fighting engine. For what it was supposed to do, it was cool.

As for the QTE´s, I couldn´t disagree more. They take away the attention of the player from the action to the flashing buttons on screen. A cinema is supposed to show dramatic, artistic situations and motions. They are supposed to be about the player enjoying a cutscene, (as long as it is done right). Adding a gimmick that only adds frustration (in some cases), that only draws your attention away from the action that is supposed to be portrayed is just wrong. It could have been done in a much better way.

[Goldni]

How come some of these charts people find don't have GBA games sold? I KNOW there is several GBA titles in the top 10 and a bunch in the top 50.

[archie4oz]

Beats me... I don't believe handhelds are counted typically in North America or Europe. The Dengeki charts do, but I guess that's just a difference between the regions...

[Lazy8s]

Logan Leonhart:
A cinema is supposed to show dramatic, artistic situations and motions. They are supposed to be about the player enjoying a cutscene, (as long as it is done right).
I can understand this perspective, but AM2 actually handled this in the series.

There are cut-scenes in the Shenmue games which are there to show these dramatic, artistic situations and motions without you having to worry about the distraction of a QTE. The nature of these cut-scenes are clearly evident when you first see them - the game's incredible musical score starts to swell in the background, the camera shots are generally sweeping, panoramic views of the vast environments, and Ryo isn't even included as a focus of the cinema.

The series doesn't go overboard with excessive amounts of dramatic cinema, and it usually uses them when Ryo is entering a new area for the first time. For instance, when Ryo first takes the bus from his neighborhood to the Harbor, you are treated to a sweeping fly-by of the entire harbor environment. From a perspective overlooking all the warehouses and the ocean, you can see workers welding the steel on the gigantic rig, sea gulls swooping underneath its arches, cars driving along the adjacent roads, and just the general activity of the people working about the harbor. The camera then flies down among the warehouses, showing the forklift traffic scattering the pigeons pacing about for food scraps. After being treated to this dramatic cinema, you see the camera finally settle on your approaching bus, just then arriving at the docks. Ryo was never a subject in the cut-scene, so there was no worry present that an unexpected QTE might distract your attention from the emotion or artistry of the unfolding scene.

The game uses these kind of cut-scenes effectively when it wants to set the mood for a turning point in your adventure and to evoke feeling for the context of your journey. When Ryo first leaves his house and ventures in to his neighborhood of Sakuragoaka, we get a sweeping shot of the neighborhood from high up. We get several segments showing the bustling pedestrian activity of Dobuita that don't even involve Ryo. As Ryo arrives in Hong Kong, we get shots of the vast ocean house boats crowding the waters. We gets similar cinematic cut-scenes of Aberdeen, Wan Chai, an especially dramatic approach scene of the countryside leading to Kowloon, etc.

AM2 just decided to spice up the other types of cut-scenes in the game with a potential for QTE - the rather comparatively ordinary story sequences where Ryo's actually interacting with potentially dangerous characters or situations. You know these are coming because a thug will approach Ryo with hostile intent, or perhaps knock a stack of crates into his way. Instead of just inactively watching the choreography and situation unfold, the QTE gives you a chance to be a part of it and influence it. There is definitely a distraction factor here like you mentioned, so that's why it's good that AM2 didn't totally do away with that other type of cut-scene - the artistic situations and cinematic ones that are often vital for setting mood and letting the user enjoy the beautiful or compelling artistry.

[PC-Engine]

Ditto! The QTEs were integrated very well.

[Magnum PI]

Not bad from a group that never develoeped a console game in house before :)

they developped a PC game and ported it to a PC-like console

[Qroach]

they developped a PC game and ported it to a PC-like console

If you still want to argue if Xbox is actually a console, and halo is a console game, then at this point that's extremly sad IMO.

[Teasy]

If you still want to argue if Xbox is actually a console, and halo is a console game, then at this point that's extremly sad IMO.

XBox is deffinately a console and Halo is deffinately a console game, obviously. I think he's just saying that it can't have been hard to take a game developed for a PC and port it to a console that has pretty much standard PC parts and runs DX as its API.

[PC-Engine]

I guess internally the only thing that's missing from the Xbox is the AGP and PCI buses.

[Qroach]

Still, that isn't the point of what I'm saying. Bungie doing that doesn't detract from the sales of this game or how well a title started on PC and finished on a console should do in the market place. Halo is still the first console title they created in house period. They've done extremly well with their first console title. It's not any easier to to make a title that sells well just becuase there's similarity's between the platforms it was developerd on. Bottom line is that it's a games that is extremly good in order to keep selling.

Perhaps you should let the person that made the comment explain what they mean.

[PC-Engine]

I agree, Halo is no doubt a very good FPS regardless if it's a PC game or a console game.

[Teasy]

Perhaps you should let the person that made the comment explain what they mean.

I'm sure he will explain, doesn't stop me from giving my take on what I thought he meant.

[BoddoZerg]

And the only reason why I didn't get the DC version is because the Xbox version has english dubbing

What subtitles too difficult? :wink: :P

:lol: I hate subtitles period. I would only watch a subtitled movie if I had no other choice. I'd rather have my eyes on the action while my ears do deciphering. :)

Eek. The quality of dubbed soundtracks tends to range from horrible to atrocious. I would rather have subtitles than crappy voices that sound nothing like the original characters anyday.

[CaptainHowdy]

I have to go with them on Bungie, I hated Bungie, in the past , Polished was never a word used to describe one of thier games, "Buggy" and "What the hell were they thinking?" were two that come to mind, but Halo completely tore up every conception I ever had about them.
the level design still needed some work, but that something I am sure they have put thought into on the sequel.

I agree it would have been a far better game on the PC, and now that it is coming to PC, I feel its too little too late(especially with Unreal 2 coming out in January). If you want Halo, gonna have to go with Xbox, being they will most likely see Halo 2 before us PC users see the first.

[DeathKnight]

being they will most likely see Halo 2 before us PC users see the first.
Not quite true ;) Halo for the PC is set to release sometime in the Summer of next year. Halo 2 isn't set to release until Nov/Dec of next year (if Bungie can reach that deadline).

[Mr. Angry Pants]

I have to go with them on Bungie, I hated Bungie, in the past , Polished was never a word used to describe one of thier games, "Buggy" and "What the hell were they thinking?" were two that come to mind, but Halo completely tore up every conception I ever had about them.

What are you talking about? Every game Bungie put out post-Marathon has been fantastic with the exception of Oni. As for bugs, the Myth series always had some trouble with unit path-finding but Bungie eventually tweaked the problem away.

[Magnum PI]

halo was developped for the PC and the mac.

then it was ported to a pc-like console, and the PC and mac version release date were posptponed after the pc-like console one.

in my mind bungie didn't develop a console game. they developped a PC game which they ported to xbox.

of course a console, depite sharing some similarities with a PC, is still a console. i don't deny that.

[CaptainHowdy]

Most PC games gone console are horrid, but it was a pretty big deal what Bungie did with Halo, they really put a lot of thought in making the game work on the Xbox controller, I agree I wish it had come to all three at once, but it was smart of them, it did move Xbox's off the shelf, if it had been on PC, that would not have happened(many a PC owner has Halo and an Xbox these days)

[archie4oz]

Every game Bungie put out post-Marathon has been fantastic with the exception of Oni.

Whoa, whoa, what a minute here!!! :o What's wrong with the Marathon series?!? :-? Or any of the other pre-Myth titles?

[Mr. Angry Pants]

Every game Bungie put out post-Marathon has been fantastic with the exception of Oni.

Whoa, whoa, what a minute here!!! :o What's wrong with the Marathon series?!? :-? Or any of the other pre-Myth titles?

haha, sorry, I worded that wrong. I guess it should be every game post... Minotaur?

[archie4oz]

It was their 2nd game (I thought it was pretty good myself)... As was Pathways and Abuse. The only Bungie title I was less than impressed with was Oni...

[Gollum]

While far from being a AAA title, even Oni was still an enjoyable game though IMHO...

[zurich]

Wasn't Abuse made by Crack.Com?

[Clashman]

I would like to take a moment to give a round of applause to everyone. I believe this is the first time a sales thread has lasted 3 pages without turning into a bitchfest. Everyone's been courteous and disagreements have so far been settled in a mature manner w/o mudslinging or namecalling. Thank you all. This is what B3D should be about.

[iscariot]

new weekly Japanese numbers. AGB cleans house and GC only 1k behind PS 2 :o


Tokyo November 28 (Bloomberg): According to the number of home video game machine selling on November 18, 2002 to the 24th which the board-of-inquiry company media creation announced on the 28th, the "Game Boy advance" of Nintendo pressed down the home video game machine "PlayStation 2 (PS2)" of Sony Computer Entertainment (S C E), and was the 1st place. The 3rd place was the "game cube" of Nintendo, and the 4th place was "Xbox" of U.S. Microsoft.

Week game machine selling ranking Maker A model The number of week selling Number of annual total selling

1 Nintendo Game Boy advance 150,800 2,313,400

2 S C E PlayStation 2 38,400 3,101,500

3 Nintendo game cube 37,400 923,400

4 Microsoft Xbox 1,900 273,600

5 S C E PUREISU TESHON 1,800 205,900

6 BANDAI A swan crystal 1,300 102,500

7 BANDAI A one dozen one color 390 115,000

8 Nintendo Game Boy color 160 79,600

9 BANDAI One dozen one 64 8,000

10 Nintendo N64 32 6,000

11 S C E Pocket Station 22 1,300

[Goldni]

Although it's got alot of ground to make up, I'm predicting GBA to catch and surpass PS2 worldwide. Looks like RE0 helped the GCN alot. Gamecube will easily pass 1 million units in Japan before the end of the year. Adding that to last year's units of 1.6 million and the Cube ought to be close to 3 million units sold by January in Japan alone. Include 3 million from US and another 3 million from the rest of the world and Nintendo is sitting around 9 million units worldwide.

Unless disaster strikes I see Nintendo easily reaching thier 10 million goal by March 31st. In fact they cold even reach close to thier original goal of 12 million.

[Qroach]

Actually if I recall correctly... The cube is at roughly 1.6 million in japan right now, and will reach 2 million before the year ends in japan.

[PC-Engine]

I hope those developers that were hesitant about releasing adult oriented games on GCN rethink their plans.

[Teasy]

GameCube is at 2 million in Japan already.

[CaptainHowdy]

GameCube is at 2 million in Japan already.

yea, those totals are for this year alone.

[Teasy]

yea, those totals are for this year alone.

Yeah I know, I was replying to Quincy who said GameCube was currently on 1.6 million sold since release in Japan.

[marconelly!]

ignore :)

[Qroach]

marconelly!,

I think we're on the same page here. He did say 1.6 million last year in Japan.

I'm pretty sure GC sold just over a million units last year in japan (something like 1.1 or 1..2 milllion from launch through the holidays), and around 650,000 (from the start of this year). If GC sold 1.6 million units in Japan last year, then it would have beaten the sales in north america through the launch/holidays (which we all know it didn't).

[Teasy]

Quincy

Yeah your right on sales for last year AFAIK. GameCube sold just over a million last year (1.2 million AFAIK). But as you can see from the sales numbers posted earlier in this thread your incorrect on GameCube sales this year. GameCube has sold 923,400 so far this year.

[Qroach]

Oh, I didn't notice that number. that's kinda strange, the last numbers I saw recently said it had sold 650,000 in japan this year. i don't know how those numbers add up exactly. Right now we're seeing the biggest number of gamecube units sold this year in japan at over 50,000. A number it hadn't reached once this year?

Just look at the math for a quick sec:

923,400 / 11 (months) = 83,945 units per month

Something doesn't seem right. With every report I saw coming out of japan, it had the GC selling between 10,000 - 25,000 on each report?

[Teasy]

With every report I saw coming out of japan, it had the GC selling between 10,000 - 25,000 on each report

But, like the sales report above, weren't they weekly sales reports? Usually that's what we see from Japan. So if the reports you saw varied from 10,000 to 25,000 that would mean 40,000 to 100,000 a month.

[Qroach]

Oh yes that's possible, it must have been weekly numbers. Still that doesn't add up to 85,000 roughly per month. Since there was only a few times i saw the sales spike up to 25,000 per week. From what I recall, the sales has been mostly flat, hovering around the low teens on the majority these reports. Oh well, with out having all the reports in front of me, something could have been missed.

[wazoo]

Last sales count for this year is 923k, so the Gc has just passed 2M this week.

[Blade]

It's weekly, Quincy. It adds up, too.. just need to get the right numbers. (Famitsu = inaccurate)

[Teasy]

Yeah I deffinately think the numbers deserve the benefit of any doubt because they certainly don't look far off when looking at the rough weekly sales we've seen.

[wazoo]

It's weekly, Quincy. It adds up, too.. just need to get the right numbers. (Famitsu = inaccurate)


The only good thing with famitsu numbers is that you get it fast, but they are just raw estimates of sales.

[Magnum PI]

http://www.cube-europe.com/newsphp/news.php?id=3095

37,400 gamecube sold last week
923,400 since the 1/1/2002

i don't know where they got their numbers

edit: now i know, it's mediacreate, see the thread:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3366