View Full Version : Leaked PS3 info!
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 09:21
DISCLAIMER: This is not 100% confirmed, it's info i got from a very reliable source at EA. If you don't believe it, just DON'T. I'm not sure i believe it myself.
DO NOT TROLL.
DO NOT POST A ONE LINER SAYING SONY IS DOOMED OR THAT I'M A TROLL FOR POSTING THIS.
Just DISCUSS, as if this was a real case scenario, about the consequences for Sony.
It's most probably one of those situations Sony can get out of, cause it's not confirmed.
Nice stuff leaked right into my drive:
In order to meet launch in spring the ps3 will feature a drive that will only be able to read single layer BD disks and will not be compatible with DVD and CDROM's
This means that backwards compatibility is sacrificed in order to reach launch date
Another problem sony is facing now is a backlash from the movie industry who want multilayer disks for additional content, these disks will not be playable on the ps3
PS3 lauch spring : only Japan (so the strange drives with no backward comp would only affect these machines! Probably not even all of them!)
autumn /summer: USA
october november : PAL
suposedly this info comes from EA internal documents
Now discuss :grin:
Gholbine
20-Oct-2005, 09:31
Sony sacrificing their biggest strength (backwards compatibility) just to meet the launch date?
That's not just unlikely, it's laughable.
Gholbine
20-Oct-2005, 09:33
Also, they've no rush to release in Japan, and they certainly wouldn't sacrifice backwards compatibility just to get the machine out in Japan as quickly as possible. If this document was evenly remotely feasible, this sacrifice would be made in order to release in the US first, to get Blu-Ray players out ASAP, as well as slow the Xbox 360 onslaught.
Nick Laslett
20-Oct-2005, 09:33
This obviously has serious consequences for the Japanese market.
But as you say the issues will be sorted by the time of the US/Europe launches, then for a lot of us it is a non-issue.
I don't think Sony should rush the Japanese launch, the Rev is more dangerous to them in Japan than the 360.
They could do a worldwide Q3 launch with a system without these flaws.
Reminds me of the botched PSX launch, where key software features were not available at launch.
It will be a blow to lose backwards compatability, because even though the 360 backwards compatibility is pretty poor, it is still better than nothing.
Yeah..
Scratching the bc-compability sounds VEEEERY odd, Sony have been touting it very loud so that dosen´t seem believable..
the machine being released in late 2006 in PAL-territories is more likely...
but yeah.. 100% NOT confirmed information so taking with a grain of salt..
you buy a nice 99$ ps2 thats what they want you to do!
what better backwards compatibility can you get? just use a ps2 muhahaa
on a serious note: This is probably one of the few scenarios they could do for launching in the spring.
maybe only japan gets a crippled bluray drive and the usa and eu gets a fully equiped BR drive.
about those launchdates, sounds plausible
Gholbine
20-Oct-2005, 09:36
I ask again, what purpose does releasing a crippled machine in Japan serve for Sony? The only consequence it will have is giving the PS3 some bad press.
If they're truly unable to get a proper Blu-Ray drive out by Spring next year, then they will delay, not release a crippled machine in a territory they'll dominate regardless of release date.
rabidrabbit
20-Oct-2005, 09:38
l-b, you're a troll
Who did you f^ck to get this "information"?
I think he f^ck'd you brainless :D, this is just not l-b anymore :)
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 09:47
l-b, you're a troll
Who did you f^ck to get this "information"?
I think he f^ck'd you brainless :D, this is just not l-b anymore :):lol: You don't wanna know...
But if this info turns out to be fake, i'll be well pissed off! All that work for nothing!!!!!!! :lol:
Gholbine
20-Oct-2005, 09:49
:lol: You don't wanna know...
But if this info turns out to be fake, i'll be well pissed off! All that work for nothing!!!!!!! :lol:
If...?
Dude, this information is so ridiculous it wasn't even worth posting.
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 09:50
Surely it's more likely they'll postpone a few months. They've done that before haven't they? Having said outright PS3 will play 13,000 BC titles they'll find it hard to explain that one away. Plus what's the point in putting in 'hardware BC' aids and writing emulators if they can't read the disc?! Sounds like major bunk.
What would make no sense is to release some kind of drive on Day1 and upgrade it later.
It did not happened with the DC. It will not happen with the Xbox360.
As for this info, no confidence.
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 09:52
Hey don't shoot the messenger... I have worked hard for that!
and the BD transfer rate is ?
rabidrabbit
20-Oct-2005, 10:14
I can see this soon appearing on ign, Gamespot and other sites "news" and "rumours".
And l-bo starts to think he holds The Staff Of Power And Wisdom and uses it for the good of mankind.
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 10:17
I can see this soon appearing on ign, Gamespot and other sites "news" and "rumours".
And l-bo starts to think he holds The Staff Of Power And Wisdom and uses it for the good of mankind.
AHAHAHAH It will be on these boards as "Look, this guy had sex with an EA employee and got this info off him!!"
Oh god i'll be the videogame whore on cyberspace for eternity!!! :lol:
suposedly this info comes from EA internal documents
Now discuss :grin:
EA certainly knows alot about something that hasn't anything to do with games :-)
London Boy, now you've done it...
This is gonna be headline news on theinquirer now, I hope your happy with yourself :lol:
Jon Brittan
20-Oct-2005, 11:16
There are only two things that would make me even begin to give this information any credit whatsoever:
1. It's posted by london-boy and he has traditionally had (fair and well tempered) leanings towards the Sony camp coupled with a well balanced and well measured approach to his postings in the forum. I don't think though that he would post anything particularly negative about a Sony console unless he was at least reasonably confident of the source (to be honest I think the same would apply to non-Sony material also).
2. The suggestion that it's only the Japanese launch that would be affected. I think that, with X360 having been available for a number of months by that point there is only so much that Sony can do with words to hold back potential customers, an announced delay may be just what is needed to allow a few more people to slip towards an X360 instead. Sony won't be happy about the time gap between the release of the X360 and the PS3 anyway, they certainly won't want to be seen not to be able to release the PS3 on time as well, so what if the concession they had to make would only affect one market and only for a brief period of time? The Sony brand is so strong in Japan and the desire of the Japanese to get their hands on the machine may well be great enough that, if any territory were going to accept a "broken" product it would be there.
I still think the information sounds highly debatable and could create a fair amount of negative publicity and maybe negative feeling in the consumer base (especially given the fuel it would potentially give to MSs marketing department, "They can't launch at the same time as us and they can't even finish their product while still being able to compete with us"), but it will be interesting to see. Real "wait and see" information, I doubt it's accurate personally, but if l-b trusts the source then it will at least pique my interest.
PC-Engine
20-Oct-2005, 11:17
If it's real, it's probably just so they can lower the price to compete. Not only do you save in costs of a cheaper less capable less complex BR drive, but you also don't need the EE+GS@90nm chip in there which uses up PCB space generating heat and require a fan heatsink too. I think this could be real only because DL BD-ROM disc manufacturing has still yet to be decided. You cannot start manufacturing robust DL BD-ROM capable drives when you don't even know how the discs will be manufactured. This is significant because they need to start manufacturing pretty soon for PS3's launch. They might release a firmware update later on for the Japanese drives when they figure out how the DL BRDs will be made. Since the first year BR movies will be on SL discs it won't really affect PS3's movie playback capability much. I've also heard that they want to stick with SL BD for awhile since it's cheaper and easier to make than DL BD. Games will only use SL anyway.
talyn99
20-Oct-2005, 11:28
Jon Brittan
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 73
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are only two things that would make me even begin to give this information any credit whatsoever:
1. It's posted by london-boy and he has traditionally had (fair and well tempered) leanings towards the Sony camp coupled with a well balanced and well measured approach to his postings in the forum. I don't think though that he would post anything particularly negative about a Sony console unless he was at least reasonably confident of the source (to be honest I think the same would apply to non-Sony material also).
Yeah, he is more for SOny, I barely post , but i do come here everyday. PS2 is a DVD as well, why sell it. I will keep mine.
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 11:31
There are only two things that would make me even begin to give this information any credit whatsoever:
1. It's posted by london-boy and he has traditionally had (fair and well tempered) leanings towards the Sony camp coupled with a well balanced and well measured approach to his postings in the forum. I don't think though that he would post anything particularly negative about a Sony console unless he was at least reasonably confident of the source (to be honest I think the same would apply to non-Sony material also).
.
THANKS!! :grin:
Certainly an interesting theory, and a plausible one at that. however I can't see sony wanting to spend more money on the Blue ray drives when going on sale in the united states. I could see the reasoning that they would want to use the same drive everywhere.
Btw, why would a dual layer blue ray drive support DVD when a single layer BR drive would not? Does anyone have any ideas why or how that could be?
rabidrabbit
20-Oct-2005, 11:41
Yeah, it isn't the single layerness that shocked me in that "rumour", but that they'd given up on the backwards compatibility 100%.
Also if it didn't read DVD's, all the games would have to be produced on BR discs.
Not all games need BR disc space, especially launch games, so making them on DVD's would also be cheaper on developers.
PC-Engine
20-Oct-2005, 11:44
Yeah, it isn't the single layerness that shocked me in that "rumour", but that they'd given up on the backwards compatibility 100%.
Also if it didn't read DVD's, all the games would have to be produced on BR discs.
Not all games need BR disc space, especially launch games, so making them on DVD's would also be cheaper on developers.
Forcing all games on SL BD nets you economies of scale in BD production which gets the cost of manufacturing the discs down which also benefits movie disc manufacturing which helps BD better compete in costs with HD DVD.
Btw, why would a dual layer blue ray drive support DVD when a single layer BR drive would not? Does anyone have any ideas why or how that could be?
They have no relation to one another. It's simply easier and cheaper to manufacture a BR only drive for a fast to market situation. You can also make it more robust. The DL aspect has no relation to this. It's just that the DL BD-ROM disc manufacturing has not be decided upon yet so there's almost no way to manufacture a DL drive today and guarantee it will work with future DL BD.
yes I can see that occuring, but what does the difference between single and dual layer mean with regards to DVD compatability?
Say the rest of the world gets a full blown dual layer supporting BR drive. Does this mean DVD playback can be included? what's stopping it from being included with a single layer drive? that's the only questions I'm curious about...
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 11:54
If it's real, it's probably just so they can lower the price to compete. Not only do you save in costs of a cheaper less capable less complex BR drive, but you also don't need the EE+GS@90nm chip in there which uses up PCB space generating heat and require a fan heatsink too. I think this could be real only because DL BD-ROM disc manufacturing has still yet to be decided. You cannot start manufacturing robust DL BD-ROM capable drives when you don't even know how the discs will be manufactured.For the first point I don't think anyone is expecting EE+GS (PS2 on a chip) to be present. Best guesses so far for BC seem to be EE emulation on Cell and maybe some sort of BC support on the RSX. I don't there's any chip-savings to be made.
On the second point, why does a DL-BRD capable of reading DVDs need knowledge of disc manufacturing? The DVDs are manufactured the same way existing PS2 DVDs are, and you pop them into your DL BRD drive and it switches to the IR laser to read them. I don't think dual-format DVD/BRDs is an issue here as that has nothing to do wtih BC (unless Sony want to sell dual format GAMES, which you play on your PS2 and when you upgrade to PS3, play them same game improved :shock: )
PC-Engine
20-Oct-2005, 11:54
On the second point, why does a DL-BRD capable of reading DVDs need knowledge of disc manufacturing? The DVDs are manufactured the same way existing PS2 DVDs are, and you pop them into your DL BRD drive and it switches to the IR laser to read them. I don't think dual-format DVD/BRDs is an issue here as that has nothing to do wtih BC (unless Sony want to sell dual format GAMES, which you play on your PS2 and when you upgrade to PS3, play them same game improved)
It has no relationship whatsoever. SONY is just killing two birds with one stone assuming this info is true. The information is vague anyway. Not having DVD and CD capability and whether the drive can read DL BD are two totally different things. The DL compatibility aspect however will depend on what kind of DL disc manufacturing is chosen which is still up in the air.
Related: didn't that Japanese PS3 show start this weekend (22nd)?
I've tried to google it but got nothing...
overclocked
20-Oct-2005, 12:35
AHAHAHAH It will be on these boards as "Look, this guy had sex with an EA employee and got this info off him!!"
Oh god i'll be the videogame whore on cyberspace for eternity!!! :lol:
Hmm thinking of how to set you up on a uhmmm "date" with KK..
robofunk
20-Oct-2005, 12:41
It has no relationship whatsoever. SONY is just killing two birds with one stone assuming this info is true. The information is vague anyway. Not having DVD and CD capability and whether the drive can read DL BD are two totally different things. The DL compatibility aspect however will depend on what kind of DL disc manufacturing is chosen which is still up in the air.
Actually it might be because the laser needs to change the focal length when its switching layers. If the BD-ROM they put in the PS3 can only do single layer then it also can't read DVD/CDs because in Blu-Ray discs the data layers are closer to the laser then DVDs/CDs (0.3mm vs. 0.6mm IIRC). A Blu-Ray drive without this ability would would probaly be a fair bit cheaper to produce because the laser assembly would cost less (fixed focal length), there's no need for any DVD/CD specific circuitry, and the jitter can be worse then a dual layer BD-ROM.
Jon Brittan
20-Oct-2005, 12:43
Hmm thinking of how to set you up on a uhmmm "date" with KK..
That's easy, just drop KK a line and all you need to say is "Hey, Ken, I'd like you to go on a date with a bloke. Listen, all you need to do is sleep with him and he'll spread whatever news you want him to and the even better thing is... people will seem to be prepared to believe him no matter how stupid it sounds, I mean look at this [cue cut and pasting of this thread]"
;)
Gholbine
20-Oct-2005, 12:54
Why would anybody buy a system that doesn't read DVDs or CDs, and doesn't play previous-gen Playstation games, when they can wait a few months and pay less for a full featured system?
It's a double-edged sword... Let's cripple the system's features and keep the price reasonable so we can release early, while giving people a reason to postpone their purchase.
I can't believe people are giving these rumours any consideration at all. The entire thing smacks of suicide business practises, and it serves absolutely no purpose!
Delay the thing if neccessary, but don't halve the disc capacity and remove backwards compatibility just so the Japanese, in a region you'll dominate regardless, can play the thing a few months early.
No no no.
PC-Engine
20-Oct-2005, 13:01
Actually it might be because the laser needs to change the focal length when its switching layers. If the BD-ROM they put in the PS3 can only do single layer then it also can't read DVD/CDs because in Blu-Ray discs the data layers are closer to the laser then DVDs/CDs (0.3mm vs. 0.6mm IIRC). A Blu-Ray drive without this ability would would probaly be a fair bit cheaper to produce because the laser assembly would cost less (fixed focal length), there's no need for any DVD/CD specific circuitry, and the jitter can be worse then a dual layer BD-ROM.
It could be that too, but i'm leaning more towards an unfinished DL BD-ROM manufacturing compatibility issue because if you wanted to simply save costs you can still have a DL BD-ROM drive and still have no DVD/CD playback. The cost savings going from a DL BD-ROM capable drive to a SL only capable one isn't that much.
Jon Brittan
20-Oct-2005, 13:02
Why would anybody buy a system that doesn't read DVDs or CDs, and doesn't play previous-gen Playstation games, when they can wait a few months and pay less for a full featured system?
Or could have bought one (albeit from a different manufacturer) months and months earlier?
As I said, one of the reasons I would give this rumour any credence is the fact that they do have to contend with the fact that X360 will have been available for a long enough period by that point anyway. Maybe they feel that, despite their strong branding, they are pushing the limits for how long they can make people wait for a next-gen console anyway (assuming they are looking at people to buy PS3 instead of X360) and that any announcement of a further delay (assuming there is no way for them to hit their target spec at price-point) may be just what is needed to push away a number of those customers.
All speculation, but then that's what this thread is about really.
I can't believe people are giving these rumours any consideration at all. The entire thing smacks of suicide business practises, and it serves absolutely no purpose!
Agreed with the second sentence, but I've already explained the reasons I would give any of this information thought-time.
Delay the thing if neccessary, but don't halve the disc capacity and remove backwards compatibility just so the Japanese, in a region you'll dominate regardless, can play the thing a few months early.
Again, agreed, providing none of the other caveats I have already mentioned come into play.
OMGWTFBBQ PS3 is doomed! :shock:
Related: didn't that Japanese PS3 show start this weekend (22nd)?
I've tried to google it but got nothing...
What show? I've never heard of it either.
Related: didn't that Japanese PS3 show start this weekend (22nd)?
I've tried to google it but got nothing...
There's a few things happening (reposted from PSiNext):
GSPx (oct 24-27)
http://www.gspx.com/GSPX/2005/2005-index.php
Austin Game conference (oct 27-28)
http://www.gameconference.com/conference/glance.html
Tokyo International Digital Conference (oct 22-30)
http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/digital2005/program/
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 13:20
Or could have bought one (albeit from a different manufacturer) months and months earlier?
As I said, one of the reasons I would give this rumour any credence is the fact that they do have to contend with the fact that X360 will have been available for a long enough period by that point anyway. Maybe they feel that, despite their strong branding, they are pushing the limits for how long they can make people wait for a next-gen console anyway (assuming they are looking at people to buy PS3 instead of X360) and that any announcement of a further delay (assuming there is no way for them to hit their target spec at price-point) may be just what is needed to push away a number of those customers.Isn't it 'better practice' to suggest a Spring launch, but not give a definite, and keep postponing 'just a little bit longer' so would be buyers saving onto their money KEEP saving onto their money expecting PS3 to be released 'any day now'? Launching early with a crippled system will surely just hurt image and annoy customers expecting the promised BC, whereas stringing them along is just annoying but can be excused more easily. 'We're taking longer to make a better machine'.
robofunk
20-Oct-2005, 13:26
I think it comes down to price and nothing else.
Well, I don't believe the rumors - just doesn't make too much sense since drive manufacturers will be releasing drives with tri-wavelength heads shortly, and Panasonic already has such drives (though not in production) for the laptop form factor.
Anyway so I'm leaning strongly towards no, but I'm hoping the next week will clarify it anyway what with the possible PS3 news. In any event though, I'm appreciative of your efforts L-B! :)
kyetech
20-Oct-2005, 13:39
Originally Posted by Jon Brittan
There are only two things that would make me even begin to give this information any credit whatsoever:
1. It's posted by london-boy and he has traditionally had (fair and well tempered) leanings towards the Sony camp coupled with a well balanced and well measured approach to his postings in the forum. I don't think though that he would post anything particularly negative about a Sony console unless he was at least reasonably confident of the source (to be honest I think the same would apply to non-Sony material also).:
THANKS!! :grin:
*Jon Carefully removes brown nose and gives his face a quick wash*
Tokyo International Digital Conference (oct 22-30)
http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/digital2005/program/
As you see in the link it's a 1-day conference at Oct. 27.
sytaylor
20-Oct-2005, 13:54
post
I'll guess the following tech from Sony was abandoned:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200405/04-026E/
I'll guess that extra part in the optical system compared to conventional BD-rom tech is just too much for Sony...
</saracasm>
I'll guess the following tech from Sony was abandoned:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200405/04-026E/
I'll guess that extra part in the optical system compared to conventional BD-rom tech is just too much for Sony...
</saracasm>
May 17, 2004
"Sony will target commercializing the newly developed 3-wavelength optical head within 2 years"
Wouldnt be the first time targets were not met...
(But I would be surprised in this case)
Jon Brittan
20-Oct-2005, 14:25
Isn't it 'better practice' to suggest a Spring launch, but not give a definite, and keep postponing 'just a little bit longer' so would be buyers saving onto their money KEEP saving onto their money expecting PS3 to be released 'any day now'? Launching early with a crippled system will surely just hurt image and annoy customers expecting the promised BC, whereas stringing them along is just annoying but can be excused more easily. 'We're taking longer to make a better machine'.
Maybe and it would be very much what they would be hoping for were that to be the case, if l-b is correct though and this does happen to be the official Sony plan it would strongly suggest that they feel confidence and their ability to keep people waiting so long after X360's release have been eroded to such an extent that any further announcement of delays would push consumers away. This can be mitigated by multiple shorter delay announcements as opposed to one announcement of several months, but every time it happens a little more confidence and patience will disappear. It really depends on just how close to the edge Sony feel they already are with regards to getting people to postpone next-gen purchases for their launch.
In all likelihood you're entirely correct, I'm simply speaking hypothetically if we take the original information in this thread to be correct.
*Jon Carefully removes brown nose and gives his face a quick wash*
Riiiiight. Okay, now do a search on my post history and find a single other post of mine praising l-b or brown-nosing.
The simple fact of the matter is that the original post asked for some faith in some otherwise almost entirely unbelievable information, I would simply prefer to put stock in this sort of information if it comes from someone I percieve as reputable than someone who trolls regularly.
I even noted that I don't think l-b is an entirely unbiased source of information, just that he manages to keep that bias in check unlike so many others and as regards the feasability of him being a reliable source just check his reputation (Little green boxes under his name, unlike the large number of people around here with reputation turned off or red boxes).
So, should we stop appreciating certain posters for their consistently good posting purely for the fact that we may be considered to be "brown-nosing"? You can feel free, I'll stick with the tried and tested method of putting more stock into the words of people who have proved their worth in the past.
----------------
And while I'm replying to several people at once...
post
Sorry, didn't you mean "post+1" ;)
pixelbox
20-Oct-2005, 14:30
If it's real, it's probably just so they can lower the price to compete. Not only do you save in costs of a cheaper less capable less complex BR drive, but you also don't need the EE+GS@90nm chip in there which uses up PCB space generating heat and require a fan heatsink too. I think this could be real only because DL BD-ROM disc manufacturing has still yet to be decided. You cannot start manufacturing robust DL BD-ROM capable drives when you don't even know how the discs will be manufactured. This is significant because they need to start manufacturing pretty soon for PS3's launch. They might release a firmware update later on for the Japanese drives when they figure out how the DL BRDs will be made. Since the first year BR movies will be on SL discs it won't really affect PS3's movie playback capability much. I've also heard that they want to stick with SL BD for awhile since it's cheaper and easier to make than DL BD. Games will only use SL anyway.
they weren't going to use EE+GS@90nm chip anyway. cell is suppose to be powerful enough to run ps2 game with a simple emulation program.
robofunk
20-Oct-2005, 14:34
I'll guess the following tech from Sony was abandoned:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200405/04-026E/
I'll guess that extra part in the optical system compared to conventional BD-rom tech is just too much for Sony...
</saracasm>
FYI that's from before TDK inventing the anti scratch coating that makes Blu-Ray discs without cartriges possible. Going from reading from something in almost prestine operating conditions to something that will stand up to normal consumer wear and still function is a big step. The drive that was designed for was also not dual layer and the media probably doesn't have the focal length deisgn of the new Blu-Ray discs but instead the same focal length of DVDs and CDs. The player/recorder english review http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/blu-ray/ . That site also said it cost ~4 grand, how much do you honestly think the price has come down.
pixelbox
20-Oct-2005, 14:36
i thought BR drives could read dvd formated disks regardless the simplicity of the drive. I really, really doubt this will change the price of ps3 a lot. what...30 bucks?
dukmahsik
20-Oct-2005, 14:40
i dont get why sony would do this, im calling this BS
Jesus Sony isnt that dumb.
Whoever believe this is out of his mind.
Its been officially confirmed many many times that PS3 will be backwards compatible.
And why should they release a PS3 that it will only read single layer BRs if Sony sees the PS3 as a device that would establish the format?
Powderkeg
20-Oct-2005, 14:53
I really can't imagine this would be true. Certainly Sony would just delay their launch if the preferred drives were only a couple of months off. The bad press of a functionality limited PS3 would cost them more in sales than missing their Japanese launch by a couple of months.
I can't help but feel that either the correct drives are a lot farther off then just a couple of months, or this rumor isn't true, and I'm leaning towards the latter.
Powderkeg
20-Oct-2005, 15:01
And why should they release a PS3 that it will only read single layer BRs if Sony sees the PS3 as a device that would establish the format?
Now that much, I can understand because it is unlikely that movies will require dual layers.
Using the VC1 codec a 1080p movie would require around 63MB per minute, so a 3 hour movie would use about 22.6GB. Of course, movie studios will probably go with 720p movies instead of 1080p as the standard resolution due to costs, which would give them even more left over space on the disk.
FYI that's from before TDK inventing the anti scratch coating that makes Blu-Ray discs without cartriges possible.
And that affects the optical system exactly how?
robofunk
20-Oct-2005, 15:16
I went on to explain how they changed from a cartrige based drive, the only things remotely similar between the technologies are probably the name, the wavelength of the laser, and maybe the modulation and error correction.
Edit: Did you read any of what I wrote, that laser and optics wasn't designed for dual layer, and was probably based on a different focal length.
The drive that was designed for was also not dual layerIt was. 50GB BD-RE discs are on sale now. Besides, you have to note that recorder != player.
FYI, the BD-ROM 1.0 specification already contains dual-layer and hard coat.
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/1c_bdrom_physicalformatspecifications_may05-13060.pdf
BlueTsunami
20-Oct-2005, 15:20
GAF has gotten ahold of this newly leaked info! They are watching us!
L-B, you sure this person from "EA" wasn't "ontimeposter" with a moustache and a monikle?
HappyBread
20-Oct-2005, 15:22
Mmm, maybe that's why Namco will be launching Ridge Racer collectors edition on one BD-ROM at PLAYSTATION 3 launch? If it doesn't support DVD or CD it is the only route they can go. But we'll see at this upcoming speech that Ken is doing.
I went on to explain how they changed from a cartrige based drive, the only things remotely similar between the technologies are probably the name, the wavelength of the laser, and maybe the modulation and error correction.
Edit: Did you read any of what I wrote, that laser and optics wasn't designed for dual layer, and was probably based on a different focal length.
As you may or may not be aware of, I was speaking of the triple wavelength technology. I don't believe they've abondoned it as it would be the most efficient way on PS3 to be able to read PS1, PS2 and PS3-disks as announced earlier just before E3. In that pressrelease they also announced 54 GB dual layer BD-rom support.
http://www.scee.presscentre.com/content/detail.asp?ReleaseID=3842&NewsAreaID=2
GAF has gotten ahold of this newly leaked info! They are watching us!
L-B, you sure this person from "EA" wasn't "ontimeposter" with a moustache and a monikle?
Whats a GAF?
Mmm, maybe that's why Namco will be launching Ridge Racer collectors edition on one BD-ROM at PLAYSTATION 3 launch? If it doesn't support DVD or CD it is the only route they can go. But we'll see at this upcoming speech that Ken is doing.
Well if its true Sony would proove even dumper than Sega with the Saturn.
Ken is hinting that PS3 will be expensive.That alone might reduce buyers.The thing is the consumer needs as much motives as possible that will make him buy the console regardless of price.Or atleast that he will feel that the price is justified
Prevent backwards compatibility=loose potential PS3 buyers that owned a PS1 and a PS2 and loved the idea of this feature
No DVD and CD compatibility=danger the BR may be misundrestood generally as being incompatible with DVD movies and CDs->bad move for establishing the medium.
Many potential PS3 owners may like the idea of being able to play DVD movies and BR movies on their device (I thought Ken wanted PS3 to be a complete entertainment device)
Also some developers may not like this idea since BR will be costy and for starters they might want to develp their games on DVDs until developing and BR cost is reduced.
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 15:43
Whats a GAF?It's a contemporary derivation of the Anglo Saxon "Gan Ha'f" which roughly translates into a meeting place or collection for trouble makers.
robofunk
20-Oct-2005, 15:51
As you may or may not be aware of, I was speaking of the triple wavelength technology. I don't believe they've abondoned it as it would be the most efficient way on PS3 to be able to read PS1, PS2 and PS3-disks as announced earlier just before E3. In that pressrelease they also announced 54 GB dual layer BD-rom support.
http://www.scee.presscentre.com/content/detail.asp?ReleaseID=3842&NewsAreaID=2
I don't doubt they'd use similar technology. I still don't think that player does dual layer from what I can gather from Sony's webpage. There are other recorders on the market that probably do (not made by Sony). This recorder for example which cost a mear ~2800$ http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002TB5OE/250-1097493-6868245 . Sony's offering cut rate prices on the BDZ-S77 only ~2400$ http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009V8QD/qid%3D1129819581/250-1097493-6868245 . These are recorders, but do you honestly think they can move away from the cartriges and keep the price reasonable.
scooby_dooby
20-Oct-2005, 16:04
Bah, Sony could do this and it wouldn't even matter.
BC has to be the most over rated feature ever, and in Japan especially, who are you catering too the 2% of gamers that bought an XBOX instead of PS2? That 2% is most defibately buying an X360 anyways for DOA(presumably why they bought an XBOX in the first place)
The bigget deal I see here is forcing Dev's to release on BR, more expensive, and I wonder whatt he load times will be. Also since PS3 can't read DVD how do you copy files to it or play video? Windows networking?
Also lack of DVD movie playback is a big downside in my books, everyone could use an extra DVD player.
*snip*
suposedly this info comes from EA internal documents
Now discuss :grin:
H8TA. :)
I dunno what to think of this. It's insane in many ways, but then again if they feel threatened about losing marketshare.
I don't doubt they'd use similar technology. I still don't think that player does dual layer from what I can gather from Sony's webpage. There are other recorders on the market that probably do (not made by Sony). This recorder for example which cost a mear ~2800$ http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002TB5OE/250-1097493-6868245 . Sony's offering cut rate prices on the BDZ-S77 only ~2400$ http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009V8QD/qid%3D1129819581/250-1097493-6868245 . These are recorders, but do you honestly think they can move away from the cartriges and keep the price reasonable.
You do realize that the unit described in that press release is a 3-wavelength recording/playback optical head prototype and not an final product?
Why wouldn't Sony continue with this technology and develop a 3-wavelength playback optical head for PS3? Wouldn't such a device be the most efficient unit for a backwards compatible PS3 as announced back on E3?
scooby_dooby
20-Oct-2005, 16:14
You do realize that the unit described in that press release is a 3-wavelength recording/playback optical head prototype and not an final product?
Why wouldn't Sony continue with this technology and develop a 3-wavelength playback optical head for PS3? Wouldn't such a device be the most efficient unit for a backwards compatible PS3 as announced back on E3?
Microsoft is already losing $60-$90 on their console, that's with a standard optical drive, cheaper ram, no expensive CELL processor, and a custom GPU that they manufacture themselves.
How is sony supposed to compete with that without cutting some major corners? You just have to be realistic, sony's not going to bleed money just so we can have a $2500 machine for $400, probably only end up with $1500 machine!
AHAHAHAH It will be on these boards as "Look, this guy had sex with an EA employee and got this info off him!!"
Oh god i'll be the videogame whore on cyberspace for eternity!!! :lol:
Is LB gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that.:cool:
Or is this just an ongoing forum inside joke?
Gay people are too cool for video games, no?:razz:
MoeStooge
20-Oct-2005, 16:21
This leak does jibe a bit with some of the stuff the HD-DVD camp has been saying. They've talked about how the Bluray folks haven't been able to get DL working except in a lab environment. They haven't achieved manufacturability yet. I think it might have had something to do with the protective coating....can't remember and don't really care enough to search for it. It probably doesn't matter too much as long as they have DL drives here. I certainly wouldn't buy one at launch unless it had one.
MoeStooge
20-Oct-2005, 16:22
Is LB gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that.:cool:
Or is this just an ongoing forum inside joke?
Gay people are too cool for video games, no?:razz:
LB always seems pretty happy to me.:)
Microsoft is already losing $60-$90 on their console, that's with a standard optical drive, cheaper ram, no expensive CELL processor, and a custom GPU that they manufacture themselves.
How is sony supposed to compete with that without cutting some major corners? You just have to be realistic, sony's not going to bleed money just so we can have a $2500 machine for $400, probably only end up with $1500 machine!
What has MS and their finances to do with this? And to my knowledge MS doesn't manufacture their parts themselves like Sony do.
How do you figure this triple wavenlength optical head will cost $2500 to produce?
As for how big losses Sony are willing to take you'd have to ask them. All I can say is that the cell project, the Blu-Ray project and the PS3 project are all long term projects and no-one expects them to be profitable from the get go.
Microsoft is already losing $60-$90 on their console, that's with a standard optical drive, cheaper ram, no expensive CELL processor, and a custom GPU that they manufacture themselves.
Well, that's the analyst talk at least. There's really no way to know what they're losing on the console...
CPU costs may come out roughly equivelent also, since Sony owns the fab space whereas Microsoft is still pruchasing via a contract. And of course, Sony is really fabbing the RSX themselves.
But yeah, doubtless the PS3 costs more to make.
Powderkeg
20-Oct-2005, 16:25
Bah, Sony could do this and it wouldn't even matter.
BC has to be the most over rated feature ever, and in Japan especially, who are you catering too the 2% of gamers that bought an XBOX instead of PS2? That 2% is most defibately buying an X360 anyways for DOA(presumably why they bought an XBOX in the first place)
Normally BC is important to early adopters who usually have to suffer through boring launch lineups and a small trickle of games for their new system for it's first year.
After the first year BC doesn't matter at all, and if you can get a good launch lineup and a steady flow of games, it will negate most of the need for BC with the early adopters as well. But you've got to have the games if you don't have the BC.
scooby_dooby
20-Oct-2005, 16:30
Even in Japan??
Why not screw BC and launch in Japan with whatever line-up theye were going to have anyways. I can't believe BC would drive ANY sales in Japan, all the gamers have PS2's!!! Then launch during the holiday in NA/EU with hopefully a few graphical bombs that will make everyone forget about the jaggfest that was last gen.
WHere this will hurt them most, is X360 or XBOX owners who were considering a PS3 now there's less of a reason to buy.
My point about finances was, the 360 is cheaper in MANY ways than PS3 and they are still bleeding money pretty heavily, so don't be surprised to see some cut corners to compete cost-wise.
Powderkeg
20-Oct-2005, 16:34
Even in Japan??
Why not screw BC and launch in Japan with whatever line-up theye were going to have anyways.
Especially in Japan, who will probably have only a handful of rushed launch games.
I can't believe BC would drive ANY sales in Japan, all the gamers have PS2's!!!
Drive sales? No, I wouldn't go that far. But it might keep some from buying the system at launch and waiting a year or two for the game library to build up instead.
My point about finances was, the 360 is cheaper in MANY ways than PS3 and they are still bleeding money pretty heavily, so don't be surprised to see some cut corners to compete cost-wise.
No argument here. Consoles have always been the best budget gaming rig you can buy.
I know where you're coming from with the B/C thing Scooby, but it's a pretty significant deal for me, and I have PS2, and before it PS1...
I'm pretty much an aesthetic minimalist, and I don't want to have to deal with multiple ancient consoles. Better to have one that plays all the titles I'm interested in. And indeed, I do play an old game now and then. I understand that for a lot of people, this is not the norm however.
In such a space-conscious country like Japan, I could understand them feeling the same as me however in the 'let's not have more consoels lying around than we need' mentality.
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 16:40
Two words: Hari Kari.
I seriously doubt this. If this is true, the exec who greenlighted this should be hanged.
BlueTsunami
20-Oct-2005, 16:43
Also, PS2 games do not stop at the PS3. They continue on. Final Fantasy XII is an example of this (so is Xenosaga III). They will come late in the PS2's life cycle but if you get a PS3 and still want to play these games, BC will allow you to have just one console for your Playstation gaming needs (hopefully).
I also like to revisit PSX games from time to time. Hell, I just threw FFVII in the good 'ol PS2. Sure, my 27" Samsung HDTV makes it look like a mess of polygonal diahreah but nostalgia forces me to do these things.
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 16:49
It would be better for Sony to dump BR for the PS3 entirely in favor of DVD. That would make more sense. If Sony's having problems with BR and they want to launch in March, they'll just dump it for the PS3 entirely.
But if Sony's smart (and they didn't get to #1 by being dumb), they'll just wait as long as they need to. I mean, why should they worry about the Xbox 360...I mean, it's just another Dreamcast, right? Right?
Just depends on which has greater revenues/profit potential, PS3 or Blu-Ray patent royalties.
Plus whether Sony feels the urgency to get a console out in Spring, especially in Japan where X360 won't be as much of a threat.
There is some speculation that MS is trying to slow down the Blu-Ray development process. They have some control over the AACS and they're trying to get the BDA, through HP, to change policies on Managed Copying and inserting iHD into Blu-Ray.
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 17:09
Even in Japan??
From the recent Famitsu survey
Reasons For Buying PlayStation 3
- 70.4%: I like its features
- 61%: I like the line-up
- 58.6%: I like the retro compatibility
- 18.7%: I like its design
- 6.2%: I like the controller
- 5.5%: I like the color variations
- 10%: etc
58.6% of people looking forward to PS3 will be disappointed to see BC off the specs sheet. I think that'd make a difference.
Edit : Well I doubt it'll makea difference to them buying an XB360 instead, but they'll be unhappy!
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 17:10
BTW : Four pages already. We'll talk about any old rubbish this forum! :shock:
NavNucST3
20-Oct-2005, 17:13
It would be better for Sony to dump BR for the PS3 entirely in favor of DVD. That would make more sense. If Sony's having problems with BR and they want to launch in March, they'll just dump it for the PS3 entirely.
But if Sony's smart (and they didn't get to #1 by being dumb), they'll just wait as long as they need to. I mean, why should they worry about the Xbox 360...I mean, it's just another Dreamcast, right? Right?
I feel your sarcasm, but even if it were fiscally responsible to drop the drive in favor of DVD, I think you would see movie studios jump back to hd-dvd, which Sony definitely does not want.
Sony had help from SEGAs lack of deep pockets in killing the(MY!!!) Dreamcast, I don't think they are arrogant enough to think that MSFTs pockets are as light.
Black Dragon37
20-Oct-2005, 17:23
Related: didn't that Japanese PS3 show start this weekend (22nd)?
I've tried to google it but got nothing...
Yeah, I think so.
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 17:34
post
Reply
Black Dragon37
20-Oct-2005, 17:38
It would be better for Sony to dump BR for the PS3 entirely in favor of DVD. That would make more sense. If Sony's having problems with BR and they want to launch in March, they'll just dump it for the PS3 entirely.For a console that's gonna be the medium for their format, that'll make them dumber than Mr. Blobby. :p
But if Sony's smart (and they didn't get to #1 by being dumb), they'll just wait as long as they need to. I mean, why should they worry about the Xbox 360...I mean, it's just another Dreamcast, right? Right?Wrong... if you think in terms of security, that is. ;)
Didn't the Dreamcast lose because of lack of security? Third-party firms didn't want to risk developing for the Dreamcast as it was so easy to pirate their games.
The Xbox 360 is different.
scooby_dooby
20-Oct-2005, 17:44
From the recent Famitsu survey
Reasons For Buying PlayStation 3
- 70.4%: I like its features
- 61%: I like the line-up
- 58.6%: I like the retro compatibility
- 18.7%: I like its design
- 6.2%: I like the controller
- 5.5%: I like the color variations
- 10%: etc
Point taken!
Could there be some truth in it after all?
Ok.. this is kind of a longshot but hear me out..
Remember the Wintel-decision of backing HD-DVD before Blu ray? MS said that, amongst other things, that the BD-camp had trouble on manufacturing multiple layers on BD and one of the biggest reasons that they´d support HD-DVD was because of managed copy ability, which lets users copy from the discs onto pcs etc...
Well.. HP is now "kind of" backing the Wintel-alliance here. Not saying that they will withdraw their support to Blu-ray, but if BD lacks this (and iHD) functions, and HD-DVD has them.. then HP must make a choice...
source to this above comes from here
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27076
---
Now, apparently, MS is right about this one.. HP seems to think so also.. so, could MS be right about the multiple layers thing?? That there is trouble with it..??
just a longshot thought...
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 18:02
Point taken!
Polls are meaningless.
BlueTsunami
20-Oct-2005, 18:04
Polls are meaningless.
As innacurate as they can be. Its better to gauge what could possibly be the mentality. Its the only form of data we got and with that, BC seems to be fairly important no matter how meaningless you think it is.
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 18:10
There's no way in hell that I believe that half of Playstation users care about backwards compatibility. Maybe 10%, but people buy new consoles to play new games. It's a nice feature to have, but it's not a make or break feature.
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 18:18
There's no way in hell that I believe that half of Playstation users care about backwards compatibility. Maybe 10%, but people buy new consoles to play new games. It's a nice feature to have, but it's not a make or break feature.So what, we have to take your 'gut feeling' personal assertion based on no research whatsoever over a poll that actually asked 2500 people what they want?
I'll NEVER understand this need for BC.
it's NEXT gen.
Once I go next gen I can never go back.... except for maybe a 10 minute stroll down memory lane with a few select titles.
Inane_Dork
20-Oct-2005, 18:23
I can understand production issues with BR drives. And I can understand Sony rushing to market to quash any momentum gain that MS might build up. But this is a little too over the top. I don't believe it without more proof.
Black Dragon37
20-Oct-2005, 18:24
There's no way in hell that I believe that half of Playstation users care about backwards compatibility. Maybe 10%, but people buy new consoles to play new games. It's a nice feature to have, but it's not a make or break feature.
It was the minority of BC fans that got Microsoft getting BC on the Xbox 360.
I'll NEVER understand this need for BC.
it's NEXT gen.
Once I go next gen I can never go back.... except for maybe a 10 minute stroll down memory lane with a few select titles.
Hey well, you'll never understand then. Me, I understand. ;)
Like it or not, the phenomenon is real.
So what, we have to take your 'gut feeling' personal assertion based on no research whatsoever over a poll that actually asked 2500 people what they want?Well, it wasn't a prioritized list, so it actually is kinda worthless--as worthless as his gut opinion. Asking someone to tick off which features they want is kind of silly if there's no cost associated with it.
All the poll shows is that 58% of those polled knew what backwards compatibility was.
.Sis
Hey well, you'll never understand then. Me, I understand. ;)
Like it or not, the phenomenon is real.
don't get me wrong, I've been gaming since Pong and I may find Live's arcade mode to be cool as those games are great "blasts from the past". As for games that I was just playing this past gen, well, I'm sure I can get whatever fix I'll need from the new gen versions, TYVM. ;)
scooby_dooby
20-Oct-2005, 18:53
J Allard has been quoted as saying according to their research 95% of users never put a PS1 game in their PS2.
BC is one of those issues everyone "thinks" they want, however once they get used to the new GFX they never look back. There is that 5% though like xbdestroya.
> "J Allard has been quoted as saying according to their research 95% of users never put a PS1 game in their PS2."
So that's why they are not providing PS2 support in the Xbox 360? ;)
If J Allard said that, why bother with BC support in the 360 at all?
Note to early poster, GAF is Gaming Age Forum. Beware such an evil place!
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 19:01
So what, we have to take your 'gut feeling' personal assertion based on no research whatsoever over a poll that actually asked 2500 people what they want?
I don't care how big the sample is, I just want to know where the sample was taken from. If it's from a group of hardcore gamers, then of course the probability of gamers who want backwards compatibility will be high. I'm sure if a sample of B3D posters was taken, the number will be about the same. But I believe that amongst the general public, b/c is a feature that's nice to have (like a DVD player in your car), but if the PS3 didn't have it that wouldn't stop them from buying one.
scooby_dooby
20-Oct-2005, 19:06
So is that's why they are not providing PS2 support in the Xbox 360? ;)
If J Allard said that, why bother with BC support in the 360 at all?
Email J and ask him.
Could have something to do with the fact they are killing of the current XBOX, could be some stupid marketing decision, could be alot of things. Bottom line is, BC won't really mean squat in the long-run, it won't affect sales, it won't make people buy the system it's just not that important.
If Sony's looking at hard numbers, and including BC is going to cost them X amount of dollars, and will only result in a very small increase in sales, it might be a good business decision to simply cut it. What's the bottleneck going to be with the PS3 production chain?? BR drives would be my guess, so that's something they are really going to have to think about. If they can release a cheaper, more stable, more readily available single-laser BR drive they might have to go with that.
The only REAL downside is the marketing angle, they will get absolutely slammed for claiming it at E3 and then completely abandoning it.
One Shot
20-Oct-2005, 19:07
GAF has gotten ahold of this newly leaked info! They are watching us!
L-B, you sure this person from "EA" wasn't "ontimeposter" with a moustache and a monikle?
LMAO ontimeposter can't be that bad.:lol:
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 19:08
He could have been Deadmeat!!!:lol:
mckmas8808
20-Oct-2005, 19:26
Why is there 5 pages of this? B3D -1.
The only REAL downside is the marketing angle, they will get absolutely slammed for claiming it at E3 and then completely abandoning it.
Well the fact it wouldn't play CD's and DVD's either - and it's supposed to be a home entertainment hub - I just don't know. I *have* to think it's going to play all three. But, I keep myself ready for anything.
scooby_dooby
20-Oct-2005, 19:29
Well the fact it wouldn't play CD's and DVD's either - and it's supposed to be a home entertainment hub.
ya thats huge too. I meant the major downside to lack of BC is mainly a PR/marketing problem.
Shifty Geezer
20-Oct-2005, 19:39
I don't care how big the sample is, I just want to know where the sample was taken from.Famitsu readers, who are of course hardcore gamers, but also early adopters so their opinions are the one's that matter most at launch I'd imagine. I wouldn't bet anything on the validity of the survey per se, but at least it's some real info rather than personal guesses which I know can be rather coloured by personal perception.
All the poll shows is that 58% of those polled knew what backwards compatibility was.Not at all. By the wording "reason's for buying Playstation3" in a poll of their buying habits and what they intended to purchase or were considering. If you haven't seen the full Famitsu survey thread I guess you don't know the context. Basically out of whatever percentage of readers said they were going to buy a PS3, this list was reason WHY they are going to buy PS3. For almost 60% of those going to buy PS3, BC is important.
seismologist
20-Oct-2005, 19:45
So which group does your source work in at EA? And where's some proof of his track record?
I'm not saying this is impossible but...
People love to come up with doomsday scenarios for Sony and this one is a pretty hard to swallow with absolutely no proof of a source.
rabidrabbit
20-Oct-2005, 19:47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytaylor
post
Reply
What's going on there, huh???
No private messaging is allowed if it's about the subject at hand!!!
mckmas8808
20-Oct-2005, 19:47
I'll NEVER understand this need for BC.
it's NEXT gen.
Once I go next gen I can never go back.... except for maybe a 10 minute stroll down memory lane with a few select titles.
So Tap In why is this a big selling point for the Nintendo Revolution? Nintendo is bragging stating that you can play Nintendo games dated back to the NES. If people didn't care, then why were people happy when they heard this?
Originally Posted by Teddman:
The original source of this rumor is not London-Boy's Beyond 3D forum post, but a post by Hey69 at OA. Same guy who revealed the Giga Pack yesterday before it was officially announced.
Originally Posted by hey69:
That guy on Beyond3d asked me permission and I gave it!
good news has to be spread out.
Originally Posted by hey69:
because that guy has an absolute big credit and postcount over there.
they would ban me for trolling if I where to post that.
fake?
The biggest problem that I see is that even if they will only have a "few" consoles that can not read DVD/CD formats in Japan and US/Euro and later Japan consoles can, don't they screw the developers by forcing them to publish all their games on BR discs. I mean they can not allow developers to publis on DVDs since then the early adopters will not be bale to play those games, and if they allow devs to later publish games on only DVDs then they will be screwing the early adopters. I really can not see this happening, it has disaster written all over it...
rabidrabbit
20-Oct-2005, 20:25
??? so it's hey69 who originally got this info somewhere, if so that's worrying as I remember him being pretty correct conserning many things about PSP, like the euro launch delay to September etc...
It'll be interesting to hear what will be said in that Japan event, things should be confirmed there.... or not, remember when it was constantly said the PSP would launch in EU at the same time as US, but in the end it was delayed to sept. without us getting confirmation abput it but long after the US launch.
BTW : Four pages already. We'll talk about any old rubbish this forum! :shock:
Err! But it is 3 pages for me... ;)
Mefisutoferesu
20-Oct-2005, 20:31
Doesn't hey69 post on B3D? Why don't we ask him for more details since he's a member?
drpepper
20-Oct-2005, 20:43
Wow, 5 pages on a rumour.
Count me as a person who loves BC (not the province). I still play Silent Hill 1 and Final Fantasy 7 ocassionally. And when the PS3 comes along I will probably still be playing GT4, MGS 3: Subsistence online, Socom 3 (maybe), and any other released games on the PS2 just to tide me over until the real PS3 titles come along. Not that launch title crap. :) My first PS3 title will probably be either GT5, MGS4, RE 4 or DMC 4, which ever comes first. Unless a really good early title comes along.
A nice transition can go a long way.
There's no way in hell that I believe that half of Playstation users care about backwards compatibility. Maybe 10%, but people buy new consoles to play new games. It's a nice feature to have, but it's not a make or break feature.
Well I am a PS1 and PS2 owner and I want BC.For me its important and I want DVD compatibility for sure too.
The same goes for other PS, PS2 users I know.
For a console gamer its highly importnat.Especially for Japanese gamers that have a different kind of preferences than US or EU gamers.There are tons of great selling Japan only games that suck technically/graphically that Japanese buy and are drooling all over them.
What I am trying to say is that Japanese will still want to play their previouss generation games even if they lack technically compared to the new gen games.And they will still be buying PS2 games when PS3 is released
Also japanese are leaving in smaller households than American and European gamers.The ability to use only one device to play PS1,PS2,PS3,DVD movies and BR movies is a very convenient and important feature for the Japanese as it takes small space in their room
J Allard has been quoted as saying according to their research 95% of users never put a PS1 game in their PS2.
BC is one of those issues everyone "thinks" they want, however once they get used to the new GFX they never look back. There is that 5% though like xbdestroya.
Allard is a liar ;)
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 20:52
DAMN WE GOT CAUGHT! :lol:
OK the story was, hey69 pm'ed me the "leak", i asked him if i could post it and make the forum a bit more exciting, he agreed.
I mean... you guys didn't really think i slept with an EA employee to get the info did u?!
... did u????
guys!!!
:lol:
I don't know lb you hadn't had a "gay-day" for a while so....:wink:
But anyways is this just a rumor or does hey69 actually have a credible source.
DAMN WE GOT CAUGHT! :lol:
OK the story was, hey69 pm'ed me the "leak", i asked him if i could post it and make the forum a bit more exciting, he agreed.
I mean... you guys didn't really think i slept with an EA employee to get the info did u?!
... did u????
guys!!!
:lol:
Well L-B since you've been 'caught,' can you go a little further into it all? Assuming you guys have been in touch (ridiculing us all!) throughout the day that is. ;)
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 20:57
Well L-B since you've been 'caught,' can you go a little further into it all? Assuming you guys have been in touch (ridiculing us all!) throughout the day that is. ;)
That's all there is to it. The leak is what i quoted. It apparently comes from an EA internal document and the guy sent it to hey69. Personally i think it's bullshit, but it was very fun to see everyone go mad, and PC-Engine actually constructing his argumentations supporting the leak!!:twisted:
dionysis
20-Oct-2005, 21:00
I'm not so concerned about BC. It's just not a big deal for me with any of the next gen consoles.
I am liking some of what I am seeing with legacy games being reworked and made available for very low cost on XBL Arcade so I'm hoping Nintendo takes a similar tack with their ROM service. Even then I'm not sure how much time I'd spend with legacy games over newer casual games like Marble Blast, Geometry Wars, Hexic, etc.
However, I am curious what this would mean for BluRay. If the "mass market" BluRay drive is single layer and not compatible with DVD media that could really undermine the value of the standard. You would really have the situation where HD-DVD offers 30g to BluRays 25g since the most populer player would be limited to it.
This would also mean it couldn't serve as a DVD player for existing media which limits the consumer appeal. Buying a new console that gives you a DVD Player, HD Video Player, and Console has a clear value argument that is undermined when you can't play your existing movie library (that you are just now getting built up). The value of the HD format player is undermined by the format wars, incompatibility with the anticipated dual layer media, and ongoing concerns about the DRM solutions for HD disc formats. The initial irresistable value proposition wouldn't be there which could certainly slow adoption.
BlueTsunami
20-Oct-2005, 21:01
That's all there is to it. The leak is what i quoted. It apparently comes from an EA internal document and the guy sent it to hey69. Personally i think it's bullshit, but it was very fun to see everyone go mad, and PC-Engine actually constructing his argumentations supporting the leak!!:twisted:
I'm sorry I had to bring this here but...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/77bluetsunami77/iseewhatyoudidthere-40431.jpg
Josh378
20-Oct-2005, 21:03
That's all there is to it. The leak is what i quoted. It apparently comes from an EA internal document and the guy sent it to hey69. Personally i think it's bullshit, but it was very fun to see everyone go mad, and PC-Engine actually constructing his argumentations supporting the leak!!:twisted:
You should have posted fake RSX specs instead of this.....that would have been more believeable...
-Josh378
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 21:04
You should have posted fake RSX specs instead of this.....that would have been more believeable...
-Josh378
Either that or bad Xbox 360 news...that's really believable around here...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/77bluetsunami77/iseewhatyoudidthere-40431.jpg
Ok BlueTsunami, you've succeeded in pushing this thread into the 'Total Madness' category. :razz:
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 21:07
:lol: @ bluetsunami!!!!
Josh378
20-Oct-2005, 21:07
Ok BlueTsunami, you've succeeded in pushing this thread into the 'Total Madness' category. :razz:
AHHHHH...gaming-age has come to beyond3D...is there no hope for the internet?
-Josh378
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 21:09
Oh for god's sake chill out!
One thread, one leak, i mean it's not like this thread as made B3D a worse place has it!? What makes this place similar to GAForums sometimes are the trolls raving about bloody wars and whose dick is bigger!
seismologist
20-Oct-2005, 21:12
Well I am a PS1 and PS2 owner and I want BC.For me its important and I want DVD compatibility for sure too.
The same goes for other PS, PS2 users I know.
For a console gamer its highly importnat.Especially for Japanese gamers that have a different kind of preferences than US or EU gamers.There are tons of great selling Japan only games that suck technically/graphically that Japanese buy and are drooling all over them.
I dont use it much but I at least like knowing it's there. If I ever feel like playing the first game in some series I dont want to have to go searching for a used PS1.
BlueTsunami
20-Oct-2005, 21:12
Oh for god's sake chill out!
One thread, one leak, i mean it's not like this thread as made B3D a worse place has it!? What makes this place similar to GAForums sometimes are the trolls raving about bloody wars and whose dick is bigger!
Exactly. Although, that picture to me encumpases perfectly (to me) what you did with this leak. Also, the Console forum has been pretty bleak latley, its good to get everyone worked up again.
LOL, I think the thread as a whole has ended on a pretty amusing note to tell you the truth, so I certainly don't begrudge you the thrill of the rumor post.
The cherry on top will be if it all ends up spreading via the Inquirer.
PLUS, I got to see a new one of those bird phrase-photos courtesey of Blue. :cool:
Josh378
20-Oct-2005, 21:15
I got to admit, those owl jpg are pretty funny.... the GAF forum pimps them like no tomorrow...I wonder if it's their mascot....
-Josh378
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 21:23
What makes this place similar to GAForums sometimes are the trolls raving about bloody wars and whose dick is bigger!
Mine, of course!
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 21:29
Mine, of course!
no no, the EA employee i got the leak from!!
ok now thats gross.. no one leaked on me...
oh my god this thread is going down fast.....
London-Boy it went down two notches just in that last post of yours alone! :razz:
People, please - no need for imagery beyond that hilarious owl picture.
Alpha_Spartan
20-Oct-2005, 21:36
LB is just the messenger. Maybe LB should make like Karl Rove and leak the name of the EA employee so we can spam his email...
BlueTsunami
20-Oct-2005, 21:37
I'm still waiting on hey69 to make an appearence. I want to hear what HE has to say (or she, but I think he is a he).
london-boy
20-Oct-2005, 21:41
I'm still waiting on hey69 to make an appearence. I want to hear what HE has to say (or she, but I think he is a he).
what if hey69 is a e?
Gholbine
20-Oct-2005, 22:14
Heh, the Xbox supporters are all over this rumour.
So Tap In why is this a big selling point for the Nintendo Revolution? Nintendo is bragging stating that you can play Nintendo games dated back to the NES. If people didn't care, then why were people happy when they heard this?
that's what I'm saying... I'll never understand. ;)
I like the "updated retro" theme, but just don't see why it's so important to have last gen's games available on a system that will most likely make superior sequels to the most popular games.
I would buy either PS3 or X360 without any BC, no problem.
ok guys you all have been owned !
Brimstone
20-Oct-2005, 22:28
No DVD playback to cut costs is slightly plausible, but then only allowing for single layer discs just seems too whacky. Of course no DVD playback would also mean no backwards compatibility which I really doubt Sony would forsake.
ok guys you all have been owned !
Bum. So that explains the comment about being banned.
I love the owls. Bring the owls here.
That Wednesdayton thread they had on GAF, was hilarious with all the owl pictures.
No no - DON'T make the owls standard! I mean I love them, but it just robs completely the seriousness associated with any thread they enter. And for the most part, I do prefer the serious threads afterall...
Kb-Smoker
20-Oct-2005, 22:44
Did you guys hear that the PS3 harddrive will cause cancer?
:?:
Source (http://media.putfile.com/G4_AOTS36)
mckmas8808
20-Oct-2005, 22:45
No no - DON'T make the owls standard! I mean I love them, but it just robs completely the seriousness associated with any thread they enter. And for the most part, I do prefer the serious threads afterall...
Yeah the owls are funny, definetly when they make the owls asian, latino, or black. (i.e. a specific race) But it does make the threads less serious.
fastasleep
20-Oct-2005, 23:27
Well, not sure how much relevance this has but bluray may have its share of teething problems before its ready. The following excerpt is from a video business article dated oct. 19th.
Industry observers believe Warner and Paramount are hedging their bets with their moves on the chance that Sony will not be able to deliver as robust a product as they say in the timeframe they promise -- mid-2006 either slightly before or after the introduction of Sony's PlayStation 3, which will incorporate Blu-ray as well.
If Sony delivers, many studio execs say that Warner and Paramount will likely abandon the HD DVD platform. If not, media companies are under such pressure to deliver a new product to revive double-digit growth of pre-recorded movies, that they will go ahead with Toshiba's format.
One studio exec says that engineers re-evaluated the Blu-ray technology as recently as this week and concluded that it will not be ready to offer everything Sony promises for two more years.
Reading this doesn't make me comfortable with sony rushing bluray into the ps3. Not when a studio's own engineers are re-evaluating bluray and concluding that sony is not going to be able to deliver on all the things they said anytime soon, which is something that MS echoed earlier on.
Btw is BR a Sony only patent?If not what other companies were involved and invested on the BR?
mckmas8808
20-Oct-2005, 23:40
Btw is BR a Sony only patent?If not what other companies were involved and invested on the BR?
Honestly too many to name. Go to Blu-raydisc.com and find out yourself.
And to fastasleep it's pretty funny that Time-Warner officially announced their Blu-ray honors today being that they found out that information last week.
Whoah thats too many.Watching at all these companies having plans behind BR-Disc I kind of doubt it will fail easily.The amount of companies is huge and not to mention the amount of capital that should be backing it up because of that :shock:
What about HD-DVD?Only Toshiba?
The consumer will be the deciding factor in whether blu-ray fails or not.
scooby_dooby
21-Oct-2005, 02:06
The consumers decision will depend on price and availability.
THe movie companies will support whatever the consumer supports, not vice versa.
MechanizedDeath
21-Oct-2005, 03:35
The consumers decision will depend on price and availability.
THe movie companies will support whatever the consumer supports, not vice versa.
The studios propel consumers to one format over another through compelling content. Hence, BD is the early favorite b/c they have all the studios except Universal. Plus more hardware backers to boot. Is this point even debateable anymore? The needle has been swinging further and further in BD's direction with each new announcement. It's fairly open and shut at this point, no? PEACE.
seismologist
21-Oct-2005, 04:41
BD Rom. The name has a nice ring to it :)
fastasleep
21-Oct-2005, 05:19
Well, congrats are in order, this thread just made it into www.joystiq.com.
PS3 to jettison backwards compatibility in order to launch this decade? Taking a tilt at the rumor mill. [update1]
Related entries: Nintendo Revolution, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360
Here’s the full text of an Xbox rumor ******tasy that Sony is ready to ditch backwards-compatibility in order to get the PS3 out the door in the spring (Japan) and fall (USA, Europe) of next year.
Nice stuff leaked right into my drive: In order to meet launch in spring the ps3 will feature a drive that will only be able to read single layer BD disks and will not be compatible with DVD and CDROM’s This means that backwards compatibility is sacrificed in order to reach launch date Another problem sony is facing now is a backlash from the movie industry who want multilayer disks for additional content, these disks will not be playable on the ps3 PS3 lauch spring : only Japan (so the strange drives with no backward comp would only affect these machines! Probably not even all of them!) autumn /summer: USA, october november: PAL
Really, this is just hogwash, but even if it’s fabricated there are still some nuggets of truth in it. As a general product development strategy, dropping features can accelerate launch timelines assuming that it doesn’t take longer to yank a feature out than it would take to finish shoehorning it in.
It’s not just Sony, either. We’ve actually heard numerous indications that Microsoft was really leaning on developers to cut game features in order to have a broad list of launch titles available for the release of the Xbox 360. That’s why some fans and critics have noticed that some upcoming games for the Xbox 360 aren’t all that visually impressive.
Update: it’s fake. There will be surprises unveiled about both the Xbox and PS3, to be sure. The best we can do is keep our eyes open.
rabidrabbit
21-Oct-2005, 05:35
This is the best rumour thread EVER!!!!!!! :D :D :D
I'm sure some of those Analysts catched this and already started changing their forecasts for the next gen :) Expect some new analyst predictions in coming days...
Josh378
21-Oct-2005, 06:24
OMG, I LOVE this forum....Hahahahahaha....
Insiders indeed....LOL
-Josh378
This is the best rumour thread EVER!!!!!!!
I'm sure some of those Analysts catched this and already started changing their forecasts for the next gen :) Expect some new analyst predictions in coming days...Eventualy someone at SCE may be forced to reveal some new info about PS3 to calm this - good job :lol:
I've found it...
Sony announced they will host a PlayStation 3 entertainment festival named Akihabara Enta Matsuri in Tokyo, Japan between October 22 - 30, it seems Sony will be showcasing all the new PlayStation 3 software and hardware, it is uncertain whether the software will be playable or in video form only.
http://www.the-magicbox.com/game20051010.shtml
More sources anywhere?
Edit - PR: http://www.jp.playstation.com/psworld/game/news/20051013_1-01.html
One? ;)
Apparently it says titles will be screened?
london-boy
21-Oct-2005, 09:25
Eventualy someone at SCE may be forced to reveal some new info about PS3 to calm this - good job :lol:
No one will look at me the same way! I'll be "the guy who forced Sony to reveal details about PS3"! All for............. ONE MMMMMMMMMMMMMMILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLION DOLLARS!!!!!! :twisted:
I've found it...
http://www.the-magicbox.com/game20051010.shtml
More sources anywhere?
Edit - PR: http://www.jp.playstation.com/psworld/game/news/20051013_1-01.html
One? ;)
Apparently it says titles will be screened?
The show is not hosted by Sony. The website is http://www.akibaentamaturi.jp/
and http://www.akibaentamaturi.jp/event/event.html says it has PS3 Theater where you can see PS3 movies probably the same as TGS movies. The main focus is apparently on PS2/PSP games, including SOtC and downloading PSP games via Playstation Spot.
Jon Brittan
21-Oct-2005, 10:55
No one will look at me the same way! I'll be "the guy who forced Sony to reveal details about PS3"! All for............. ONE MMMMMMMMMMMMMMILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLION DOLLARS!!!!!! :twisted:
In damages awarded to Sony for loss of reputation based on internet rumour-whoring... :p
The show is not hosted by Sony. The website is http://www.akibaentamaturi.jp/
and http://www.akibaentamaturi.jp/event/event.html says it has PS3 Theater where you can see PS3 movies probably the same as TGS movies. The main focus is apparently on PS2/PSP games, including SOtC and downloading PSP games via Playstation Spot.
Cheers and crap. ;)
mckmas8808
21-Oct-2005, 17:41
No one will look at me the same way! I'll be "the guy who forced Sony to reveal details about PS3"! All for............. ONE MMMMMMMMMMMMMMILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLION DOLLARS!!!!!! :twisted:
You lucky bastard, I want some of that money. I put in a the thread too.:twisted:
So, has any news surfaced from this event yet?
http://www.entama.com/event.html#ps3
deathkiller
28-Oct-2006, 12:07
So, has any news surfaced from this event yet?
http://www.entama.com/event.html#ps3
Why did you revived a year old thread?
london-boy
28-Oct-2006, 12:12
Holy thread resurrection, Batman!!
Well, it WAS the best thread ever! Certainly the most fun! And not just because it was mine!!:lol:
Why did you revived a year old thread?
Oh crap!! Sorry guys.... *runs and hides*
Sindre
weaksauce
28-Oct-2006, 18:00
You know this makes sense with that lik-sang twist
A Sony spokesperson declined to comment directly on the lawsuit against Lik-Sang, but recently went on to tell Gamesindustry.biz that "ultimately, we're trying to protect consumers from being sold hardware that does not conform to strict EU or UK consumer safety standards, due to voltage supply differences et cetera; is not - in PS3's case - backwards compatible with either PS1 or PS2 software; will not play European Blu-Ray movies or DVDs; and will not be covered by warranty".
http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3901
You know this makes sense with that lik-sang twist
http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3901No it doesn't make any more sense with that Lik-Sang twist.
First, let's be very clear about one thing: the reasons Sony gave for killing off the console imports were excuses.
Second, I figure the thing you're referring to is backwards-compatibility with PS1/PS2 games. If you think about the existance of PS1/PS2 software in the US and Japan, where the consoles will be sold anyway, you'll notice that this has nothing to do with what was talked about in this thread (drives that cannot read CD/DVD media). As I said, the whole thing is just an excuse, but the grain of substance here are the issues with 50Hz legacy TV formats in Europe, which means the old (localized) software expects to be able to output 50Hz formats, which isn't necessary for US/Japanese PS3 systems playing US/Japanese software.
It could technically be possible that Sony has not yet finalized the behaviour of the machine for those kinds of circumstance, and that they can make good use of a little extra time.
If it was something else you meant, please be more specific.
No it doesn't make any more sense with that Lik-Sang twist.
First, let's be very clear about one thing: the reasons Sony gave for killing off the console imports were excuses.
No, they weren't. Importing without the support of the trademark owner into other territories is illegal - end of. This isn't just a Sony enforced policy, this/it is a breach of their IP rights (over the trademark) and they have every right to enforce them on the basis of whatever grounds they choose i.e. there is no such thing as an excuse (perhaps a false motive) if you have every right to do it.
Sun do exactly the same (http://uk.sun.com/partners/grey/faq/index.html). Apple do the same with their software (using IP law to prevent people selling Apple hardware and degrading the warranties they offer).
Debunked, PS3 not only reads DVD-ROMs but it also plays them :)
Information and a demo of PS3s BC can be found here (http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-plays-older-games-region-lock-still-works/pg/49/aid/71084)
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