GamePro gets 360 Debug kit (power supply?) [Archive]

Bad_Boy

14-Oct-2005, 22:31

thx to: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=719979&postcount=1
source: http://gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/previews/49071.shtml

http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/6858/sastorarnatadaptern319174qb.jpg
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/6360/sastorarnatadaptern319168ja.jpg
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2760/xboxpsugb1hk.jpg

*sorry if this was already posted :X

edit:
found another pic
http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/8499/alim6pa.th.jpg (http://img439.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alim6pa.jpg)

Carl B

14-Oct-2005, 22:44

Well, the article was, but not the photo of the power brick.

Man that thing is massive - I thought people were exagerating.

One Shot

14-Oct-2005, 23:04

LMAO at that last pic.:lol:
I hope they don't come with that power brick.Ether way i'll just hide it behind my tv.

14-Oct-2005, 23:54

Is that thing that power hungry?

mesyn191

14-Oct-2005, 23:56

I don't think its so much that its power hungry, but they had to scrounge up something to power it and that was the closest thing on short notice.

Mefisutoferesu

15-Oct-2005, 00:37

Supposedly according to those on GAF who've seen the production models that brick is indeed part of XBox 360. The difference is it's gray... I imagine similarly to the grey on the controller.

hey69

15-Oct-2005, 00:37

why do you think the Edram is on a seperate board? they'v split up the guts of the machine to hide in the powerbox . that way they could make the xbox smaller..

hehe

Mefisutoferesu

15-Oct-2005, 00:57

A picture of the production model brick. Looks like the GAF guys were right. Who'd a thunk, eh?

http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc28&image=b55_XBox360_PSU_copy.jpg

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 01:00

That thing is big as hell.:shock:

expletive

15-Oct-2005, 01:00

Wow that is massive. I wonder how many watts it draws under load.

J

seismologist

15-Oct-2005, 01:02

oh my That thing looks like a fire hazard.

Dr Evil

15-Oct-2005, 01:03

Now am I right assuming that X360 has extrernal powersupply?, that would make importing more appealing to me.

Powderkeg

15-Oct-2005, 01:08

Hey, it's the ghost trap from Ghost Busters!!!

http://thefirehouse.ghostbustersinternational.com/trap.jpg

ERP

15-Oct-2005, 01:14

Now am I right assuming that X360 has extrernal powersupply?, that would make importing more appealing to me.

The devkits do and I would assume that the final units will aswell.

Powderkeg

15-Oct-2005, 01:16

The devkits do and I would assume that the final units will aswell.

This was taken at the San Francisco press event. You can see the power dupply on the floor.

http://johnnyfuzzy.250free.com/xbox360/DSCN1501.JPG

MoHonRi

15-Oct-2005, 01:19

oh my That thing looks like a fire hazard.

Actually I bet it's that big so it's NOT a fire hazard...

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 01:32

The power supply will not be that big in the real 360's is it?

Acert93

15-Oct-2005, 01:37

The power supply will not be that big in the real 360's is it? Nope.

It is gonna be that big outside the 360 ;)

The PSU is the size of the Nintendo Revolution! Not that I care about PSUs (they get tucked away and seen once a year, if that) but it is funny :lol:

Mefisutoferesu

15-Oct-2005, 01:47

I'm sorry, but are my post's invisble to you all or what?!! <Runs out of room crying>

A picture of the production model brick. Looks like the GAF guys were right. Who'd a thunk, eh?

http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc28&image=b55_XBox360_PSU_copy.jpg

_leech_

15-Oct-2005, 02:12

Wow :shock:

jvd

15-Oct-2005, 02:14

I'm sorry, but are my post's invisble to you all or what?!! <Runs out of room crying>

Just curious but how do we know these are production models ?

randycat99

15-Oct-2005, 02:20

All these pics of the powerbrick, but no posts on what the power rating is marked on the case? I'm not trying to be facetious, but it seems to be the next logical question to tie a "wattage" to the size of the device we are seeing.

robofunk

15-Oct-2005, 02:21

oh my That thing looks like a fire hazard.

To be honest this is probably part of the reason why it's so big, they need avoid the whole power cord recall the Xbox had so they give you a very robust power supply. I don't think the PS3's will be much smaller, and it t is it'll be more expensive.

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 02:26

I'm sorry, but are my post's invisble to you all or what?!! <Runs out of room crying>

I'm just in shock. The thing looks as long as the Xbox 360 itself.

seismologist

15-Oct-2005, 02:37

I don't think the PS3's will be much smaller, and it t is it'll be more expensive.

If Sony can squeeze PS2 power into a system the size of the PSP. I'm betting there wont be a massive power supply like this on the PS3.

randycat99

15-Oct-2005, 02:50

Well, I woudln't be surprised to see a similarly sized PS for PS3, at all. I don't imagine there is too much leeway to use more or less power once you have x amount of transistors on a y sized die. You want the processing power, you pack in the transistors, and you will have to pay the piper in wattage to make those transistors do work.

The only other thing that I'd expect could make any difference is if X360 PS happens not to be a switching power supply and PS3 PS happens to be one (entering extreme conjecture, here, given how little we really know about these devices other than a mere picture). I think the switching PS vs a conventional PS allows for some efficiency benefits and subsequentially an impact on construction size (the downside is cost, of course, but they are appearing in more and more CE devices, so they can't be too far off in that respect).

robofunk

15-Oct-2005, 02:59

If Sony can squeeze PS2 power into a system the size of the PSP. I'm betting there wont be a massive power supply like this on the PS3.

Wow, worst comparison ever. The PSP is designed to be portable, it's was designed using a power saving architecture years ahead of the PS2.

The power requirements for Xbox 360 and PS3 are probably going to be about the same considering the components they're using. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 is even more power hungry then the 360, considering Cell and RSX will be clocked higher then their 360 equivalents.

Dr Evil

15-Oct-2005, 03:01

If Sony can squeeze PS2 power into a system the size of the PSP. I'm betting there wont be a massive power supply like this on the PS3.

I don't really see how those two things are connected...
Anyway PS3 will consume enormous amount of power as is X360 atleast if one compares them to say PS2, which doesn't use that much. I think it's safe to say that the PS3 ps will be about the same size as seen on those X360 pics.

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 03:15

I don't really see how those two things are connected...
Anyway PS3 will consume enormous amount of power as is X360 atleast if one compares them to say PS2, which doesn't use that much. I think it's safe to say that the PS3 ps will be about the same size as seen on those X360 pics.

I hope not. But if it is, then it is.

AlStrong

15-Oct-2005, 04:29

Hey, it's the ghost trap from Ghost Busters!!!

[]http://thefirehouse.ghostbustersinternational.com/trap.jpg[/]

that's exactly what I was thinking!

15-Oct-2005, 05:21

Hey, it's the ghost trap from Ghost Busters!!!

ROFL

scooby_dooby

15-Oct-2005, 05:48

I read that a dev on GAF was saying the final version is about the same size as a Gamecube PSU but not as fat, that's not so bad.

c0_re

15-Oct-2005, 06:21

OMG the Ghostbusters thing is hilarious!

ecliptic

15-Oct-2005, 06:22

The big question is, who really cares?

flick556

15-Oct-2005, 07:20

Well at least they made it external, so the size of the box can be smaller. That thing looks like you can through it behind the TV and never think about it again. Also if it explodes the console may still be saved.

Bad_Boy

15-Oct-2005, 07:26

I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 is even more power hungry then the 360, considering Cell and RSX will be clocked higher then their 360 equivalents.
Wernt the older x800 ati cards clocked higher than the 6800's and were also less power hungry? and I beleive the 7800's are less power hungry than the new ATI cards.
I think it really depends on the efficiency of the hardware.

I wouldnt assume much yet. We dont know how much or less power the cell consumes compared to 3 intel processors, and we dont know which will be more efficient-- the rsx or xenos.

Dont jump the gun ;)

Guden Oden

15-Oct-2005, 09:05

I don't think the PS3's will be much smaller, and it t is it'll be more expensive.
Why don't you check the power supplies you can get for micro-sized PCs. They're much smaller than this ghostbuster trap, and they still contain five separate voltage rails like all PC supplies do. And no, they're not outrageously expensive either, a power supply doesn't contain any particulary esoteric components, it's all basic passive electronics stuff. Caps, resistors, coils, a diode here, a transistor there... Stuff like that. PC supplies are big because they're made that way. Not because you can't make them smaller.

Joe DeFuria

15-Oct-2005, 12:49

oh my That thing looks like a fire hazard.

The power supply or his teeth? ;)

london-boy

15-Oct-2005, 13:45

Why is it THAT big?! Makes no sense, it's at least twice the size of other PSUs which have to draw the same amount of power X360 will if not more.

Thank god MS decided to go for an external PSU, i can only imagine how big the X360 would have been with an internal PSU.

Dr Evil

15-Oct-2005, 14:19

I wouldnt assume much yet. We dont know how much or less power the cell consumes compared to 3 intel processors,

You do know that the processor in X360 is made by IBM right?.

Bad_Boy

15-Oct-2005, 15:00

You do know that the processor in X360 is made by IBM right?.your right, my fault. long day :P
statement still stands though, we dont know how much power the ps3 will compare to the xbox360 just yet.

Dr Evil

15-Oct-2005, 15:16

your right, my fault. long day :P
statement still stands though, we dont know how much power the ps3 will compare to the xbox360 just yet.

Well I think it's safe to say it's not drastically less.

Ragemare

15-Oct-2005, 15:27

I have transformers half the size of that, so maybe it has a hefty variable (so you can have the same model for all countrys) transformer and then all the other power regulation stuff packed in there, with some room between the components to disperse heat.

I'm not so sure it's size will matter, but we'll see. It certainly wouldn't bother me if I was considering buying it, not unless it was really huge.

Stillmatic

15-Oct-2005, 16:47

You get a glimps of a bunch of PSU's in the X360 assembly video and they look the same size as the ones in the pics posted, so maybe these will be the final size.

Bottom vid, 23 secs into it.

Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/xbox360hardware/media.html?sid=6133360&autoplay=6133360)

robofunk

15-Oct-2005, 17:08

I'm pretty sure that's just a bunch of wires.

jvd

15-Oct-2005, 19:45

Once again how is this confirmed to be the final production model ? From what i can see that picutre gaf is using as proof is from a trade show of some sort and may not be the final power supplys and they may be there for other reasons .

Bad_Boy

15-Oct-2005, 20:24

i think everything pretty much points to it that it is.

plus, if they dont even have a psu almost a month before the console ships that would be kind of a iffy situation.

jvd

15-Oct-2005, 21:16

i think everything pretty much points to it that it is.

plus, if they dont even have a psu almost a month before the console ships that would be kind of a iffy situation.

Of course these can be older models used for stability in a large gaming event where there are tons and tons of electronics drawing on the power grid .

scooby_dooby

15-Oct-2005, 21:19

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 21:25

Maybe they're meant to power multuiple consoles?

In the Gamespot video, they show a rack of like 40 X360 being tested in the factory, however it looks like they are all running off only 7 or 8 powerbars.

Hey scooby and jvd do you care if the PSU is that big in the final version?

scooby_dooby

15-Oct-2005, 21:26

MEh, I would prefer if it wasn't, but it's not like it influences my opinion of the console...

The Gamecube PSU is huge too, and it's pretty annoying, but whatever, tuck it away and be done with it.

Powderkeg

15-Oct-2005, 21:28

The size would make no difference to me, since it's going to be hidden under my entertainment center along with the wires, plugbar and backup power supply for my TV, stereo, subwoofer, dvd player, vhs, and satellite receiver.

Bad_Boy

15-Oct-2005, 21:33

Of course these can be older models used for stability in a large gaming event where there are tons and tons of electronics drawing on the power grid .
if you say so.

btw, i updated the first post a lil while ago with a new pic if anyone is interested.

Mefisutoferesu

15-Oct-2005, 21:42

People just refuse to believe what's in front of their eyes, I think... well, sometimes, at least. If it's any better proof, element confirmed that the brick in the pic from the expo posted is indeed the final one going into production XBox 360s.

The link to the thread:
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?p=2090649#post2090649
Posted right before the picture of the GC psu.

Yeah, it's GAF, so take it how you like.

In the end it's not gonna matter, all three will more than likely have bricks. It's pretty obvious the REV will, and if the XBox 360 has one then I'm sure the PS3 will, so everything's still the same. I kinda wish that if they were gonna use a brick that the consoles would be a bit smaller, but I guess that's pushing it.

Arqentus

15-Oct-2005, 21:43

If Sony can squeeze PS2 power into a system the size of the PSP. I'm betting there wont be a massive power supply like this on the PS3.

The PS2 & the PSP's cpus are based on a totally different process. Cpus have a habit of dye shrinking every year, year & half. And a die shrink drastically cuts the power requirements.

Take a old Pentium 60mhz, and produce it with current used fabs. You can power it with a AA battery. The PS2 is 5 years old? That's at leased 4 shrinks in the process.

Also, lots of routines in the PSP are now hardware based, where in the PS2, you needed to use software routines = lots less efficient = more power usage. Then you need to take in account other power saving technologies that have emerged over the years.

Hell, take a look at the PS2 Slim. I see some people ( fan boys? ) calling out on other forums how bad the xbox360 is with that power supply when the PS2 slim has almost nothing of a power supply. Same deal here.

I rather have a massive external passive cooled PSU, then a small internal PSU that runs hot, ready to burn up, powered by a screaming fan to prevent it from creating a Nuclear meltdown ...

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 22:27

People just refuse to believe what's in front of their eyes, I think... well, sometimes, at least. If it's any better proof, element confirmed that the brick in the pic from the expo posted is indeed the final one going into production XBox 360s.

The link to the thread:
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?p=2090649#post2090649
Posted right before the picture of the GC psu.

Yeah, it's GAF, so take it how you like.

Seriously Mefisutoferesu you should know that GAF is not that bad. They also have real devs there that comment everyday. Actually I see more devs comment there on a day to day basis than I do here. It's just so many bad trolls that it makes the place look infested.

jvd

15-Oct-2005, 23:25

if you say so.

btw, i updated the first post a lil while ago with a new pic if anyone is interested.

I'm only asking because as of yet no one has opened a retail box and viewed the power brick inside .

A picture of something at a tradeshow is far from confermation that this is the final power brick . Esp since we've heard other times that the powerbrick would be smaller than the dev kit ones which are nearly the same size as these

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 23:32

I'm only asking because as of yet no one has opened a retail box and viewed the power brick inside .

A picture of something at a tradeshow is far from confermation that this is the final power brick . Esp since we've heard other times that the powerbrick would be smaller than the dev kit ones which are nearly the same size as these

What if a MS game developer said that it is the real thing? Does that count?

jvd

15-Oct-2005, 23:37

What if a MS game developer said that it is the real thing? Does that count? which one , where was it said ? How do we know if he has accurate information ?

That is the question . all i see are pics from a trade show as proof

Powderkeg

16-Oct-2005, 00:13

which one , where was it said ? How do we know if he has accurate information ?

That is the question . all i see are pics from a trade show as proof

The pic I posted earlier was not from a trade show, and to the best of my knowledge, they are not debug kits.

mckmas8808

16-Oct-2005, 00:13

which one , where was it said ? How do we know if he has accurate information ?

That is the question . all i see are pics from a trade show as proof

The guy's name is Element. And he said

The one photoed at Digital Life Expo is the final one.

Mefisutoferesu has a link to the forum page a few post up.

jvd

16-Oct-2005, 00:14

The pic I posted earlier was not from a trade show, and to the best of my knowledge, they are not debug kits.

what is it from ? and no they dont' have to be debug kits , they can just be floor models for shows .

As i've said has this been confirmed by any offical sources as the pack in power brick. People are acting like this has been confirmed by microsoft .

jvd

16-Oct-2005, 00:15

The guy's name is Element. And he said

Mefisutoferesu has a link to the forum page a few post up.

Right and who is element ? Do we know if he is an actually ms employee or a developer and if he is correct on it being final .

Or can anyone on a website claim to be a developer and say something and we take it as fact ?

Powderkeg

16-Oct-2005, 00:23

what is it from ? and no they dont' have to be debug kits , they can just be floor models for shows .

It was a small, invitation only MS press event in San Francisco. It was small enough that the people who were invited were given memory cards to use when they played the games, and were allowed to keep those memory cards when it was over to use on their home systems when the 360 launches.

As i've said has this been confirmed by any offical sources as the pack in power brick. People are acting like this has been confirmed by microsoft .

I think the odds of a major redesign for the final system is remote at best. You would be much better off to simply assume these are final.

jvd

16-Oct-2005, 00:24

So are these from san fransico or the nyc digital life show ?

guess we will know in a month .

mckmas8808

16-Oct-2005, 00:25

Right and who is element ? Do we know if he is an actually ms employee or a developer and if he is correct on it being final .

Or can anyone on a website claim to be a developer and say something and we take it as fact ?

Just like DeanoC on this forum, everybody knows for a fact that element is a MS developer and knows what he is talking about.

Guden Oden

16-Oct-2005, 00:26

As i've said has this been confirmed by any offical sources as the pack in power brick. People are acting like this has been confirmed by microsoft .
How many times do you need this confirmed? Dude, it HAS been confirmed already, deal with it. :-P There is a video showing these things at the assembly plant going into boxes, so yes it is the final kit.

It isn't beautiful for sure, I'd preferred a bigger console with a built-in PSU, but hey, you can't get everything...

jvd

16-Oct-2005, 00:28

cool where can i see the video ?

linthat22

16-Oct-2005, 00:52

Hey, it's the ghost trap from Ghost Busters!!!

http://thefirehouse.ghostbustersinternational.com/trap.jpg

That's exactly what I was thinking :lol:

randycat99

16-Oct-2005, 01:12

I rather have a massive external passive cooled PSU, then a small internal PSU that runs hot, ready to burn up, powered by a screaming fan to prevent it from creating a Nuclear meltdown ...

I agree with your point, generally, and find it strange that some here are seemingly bothered with a PS being "too large". If it is large, it seems a good thing it is external, because that most certainly has a positive impact on the size of the console. Additionally, heat generation issues inside the console are nicely cut right in half, by going external. Going external is a smart choice.

Seeing as how heated the GFLOP envy debate is, it seems that people should be more hyped over a PS being "bigger" rather smaller. In a loose context, the capacity/size of the PS is somewhat a reflection of the resource abundant processing might inside the console.

I still haven't see anybody comment on the spec'd power capacity of these bricks- not even a guess. What are we talking about here- 100 W, 150 W, 200+ W? I'd really like to know. If memory serves, the old PS2 came in at a 75 W power rating.

expletive

16-Oct-2005, 02:34

Why is there so much discussion about the size of this PSU? Who cares!

PG2G

16-Oct-2005, 02:41

Just thought I'd point out that element worked on Fuzion Frenzy but is no longer an MS dev. His studio will be doing games for both consoles, AFAIK.

aaaaa00

16-Oct-2005, 02:57

Additionally, heat generation issues inside the console are nicely cut right in half, by going external. Going external is a smart choice.

Yup. Smart design with the xbox 360.

External passively cooled power supply = no noise, no fan, and moves a heat source outside of the case.

External add-on HD = moves another heat source outside of the case, you keep your HD if you need to send the xbox in for service, you can move the HD between xboxes.

I'm actually really suprised no one has built big external power supplies for PCs. I'd pay a lot of money for a passively cooled external power supply for my home theatre PC -- I'd imagine it would be a lot easier to design and safer than the fanless internal power supplies I can buy today, which kind of scare me with how hot their heatsinks can get and how much heat they dump into the case.

randycat99

16-Oct-2005, 03:06

Well...for a laptop style HD, I don't imagine it was particularly hot as a matter of design, eh? ;)

aaaaa00

16-Oct-2005, 03:07

Well...for a laptop style HD, I don't imagine it was particularly hot as a matter of design, eh? ;)

True, but every little bit helps. :) Also have you noticed how hot modern laptops get? I hesitate to call them laptops any more, because they can't really go on your lap these days. :wink:

Stillmatic

16-Oct-2005, 04:01

Maybe they're meant to power multuiple consoles?

In the Gamespot video, they show a rack of like 40 X360 being tested in the factory, however it looks like they are all running off only 7 or 8 powerbars.

Nah, there are 5 X360 consoles on the bottom shelf with 1 PSU each, the X360's above them would probably have there's behind the console.

mckmas8808

16-Oct-2005, 04:18

Why is there so much discussion about the size of this PSU? Who cares!

It is part of the console right? What's the problem? If the PS3 is bigger then we will talk about that too.

PG2G

16-Oct-2005, 04:32

Well, I figure talking about it for the PS3 will be just as stupid. Who really cares how big the PSU is? Its tucked away in the back of your entertainment center, cabinet, or whatever you store your consoles in. The thing won't even be visible.

jvd

16-Oct-2005, 05:47

that thing is huge, i don't want to throw my back out each time i dust :sad:

mckmas8808

16-Oct-2005, 06:10

that thing is huge, i don't want to throw my back out each time i dust :sad:

:lol: The mental image was just funny when I read that.

jvd

16-Oct-2005, 06:16

:lol: The mental image was just funny when I read that. its true though , i have a hurnitated l5 disc . I remember my friends and i were going to drive down to florida and the day before we left i bent down and picked up my underwear after a shower and boom there went my back. Now this thing looks much heavier than a pair of underwear . That was a fun time though going to all the theme parks full of pain killers and epcot esp driving the motorized wheel chair around as i got drunker and drunker through out the little countrys and all thier liquer .

God when i was little i hated epcot but now i can't wiat to go back (hopefully i can walk this time )

mckmas8808

16-Oct-2005, 07:39

Oh my bad jvd. Didn't know you were serious.:oops:

jvd

16-Oct-2005, 07:42

Oh my bad jvd. Didn't know you were serious.:oops: na its okay i was half joking but half serious haha .

But yea the mental image of me behind my home entertainment unit yelling help me i've fallen and i can't get up is pretty damn funny .

That is why i got that little necklace thing where i press a button and people come and help me !:shock:

Shifty Geezer

16-Oct-2005, 09:48

Why is there so much discussion about the size of this PSU? Who cares!I think it's a design things that affects people's perception. Small, slim and shiny are wht constitutes hi-tech looking at the moment. A large lump of a PSU stands out from the rest of the system. Of course it's nothing of concern but it does impact that first-impression zone. "Wow, look at this console. That's pretty sleek. And these controllers looks great. I met get some of those interchangeable faceplates and ... what the hell is this?! Man alive, that's enormous!"

If MS could avoid this oversized PSU it'd be better from buyer's perspective, but overall the experience of first seeingthe PSU will soon be forgotten.

BTW large doesn't necessarily mean heavy. The Amiga had a massive external PSU that weighed a ton, but a later revision kept the same casing but had super-lightweight innards. While some of the smaller A600 PSU's were heavier than the larger models. Though if that XB360 PSU is a solid lump of power coil it will weight a bit!

16-Oct-2005, 10:37

I'm just wondering if this is indicative of the power needed for next gen consoles? Does this mean that wattage has increased by a "decent" amount?

expletive

16-Oct-2005, 14:18

I think it's a design things that affects people's perception. Small, slim and shiny are wht constitutes hi-tech looking at the moment. A large lump of a PSU stands out from the rest of the system. Of course it's nothing of concern but it does impact that first-impression zone. "Wow, look at this console. That's pretty sleek. And these controllers looks great. I met get some of those interchangeable faceplates and ... what the hell is this?! Man alive, that's enormous!"

If MS could avoid this oversized PSU it'd be better from buyer's perspective, but overall the experience of first seeingthe PSU will soon be forgotten.

BTW large doesn't necessarily mean heavy. The Amiga had a massive external PSU that weighed a ton, but a later revision kept the same casing but had super-lightweight innards. While some of the smaller A600 PSU's were heavier than the larger models. Though if that XB360 PSU is a solid lump of power coil it will weight a bit!

Yes i guess i'm just surprised by how many people feel its worth arguing over whether or not these pics are real, and how this is now yet another spec with which we need to do a death match with the 360 and the ps3. Like you said it will soon be forgotten once its hanging behind your TV stand/entertainment center/wahtever.

J

Shifty Geezer

16-Oct-2005, 14:23

It seems a trivial argument, but at least it's something different to the recuring arguments of whether RSX or Xenos has the more pixel shader power, how much PS3 will cost and how it's software will be worse than XB360's software, and other perennial topics (like Cell doing AA) that cannot be conclusively argued but which some parties keep trying to do anyway despite having expressed their opinions on the matter a half-dozen times before and everyone already knowing where they stand on such matters!

:p

expletive

16-Oct-2005, 15:14

Shifty Geezer

16-Oct-2005, 15:23

You learn pretty good ;)

Bad_Boy

16-Oct-2005, 15:49

when all we've seen from Sony was beta power supplies!

J

I havent seen any type of psu from sony. I have just seen the power cord port on the back of the ps3, but that always had the "subject to change" print on the images.
http://www.armchairempire.com/images/News/May-2005/ps3-unveiled/ps3-unveiled-4.jpg

expletive

16-Oct-2005, 16:29

I havent seen any type of psu from sony. I have just seen the power cord port on the back of the ps3, but that always had the "subject to change" print on the images.
http://www.armchairempire.com/images/News/May-2005/ps3-unveiled/ps3-unveiled-4.jpg

It was a joke. :)

EDIT: On a more serious note, are there any exhaust ports on the PS3 pics? I havent seen any yet. Could it be possible to cool that electronics without an exhaust/fans? MY understanding is that even watercooled setups have some quiet fans somewhere in the pipeline...

J

rendezvous

16-Oct-2005, 17:35

It was a joke. :)

EDIT: On a more serious note, are there any exhaust ports on the PS3 pics? I havent seen any yet. Could it be possible to cool that electronics without an exhaust/fans? MY understanding is that even watercooled setups have some quiet fans somewhere in the pipeline...

J

Yes, there are several ventilation holes on the right sides of the unit displayed in the pictures. There could be some on the left side too but i haven't seen any pictures from that angle. The left side is however the side the unit is standing in upright position which would block any ventilation holes there.

Sis

16-Oct-2005, 17:54

I think it's a design things that affects people's perception. Small, slim and shiny are wht constitutes hi-tech looking at the moment. A large lump of a PSU stands out from the rest of the system. Of course it's nothing of concern but it does impact that first-impression zone. "Wow, look at this console. That's pretty sleek. And these controllers looks great. I met get some of those interchangeable faceplates and ... what the hell is this?! Man alive, that's enormous!"

If MS could avoid this oversized PSU it'd be better from buyer's perspective, but overall the experience of first seeingthe PSU will soon be forgotten.
I honestly can't imagine the PSU having any emotional value to the consumer at all. It gets talked about on the internets because that's what happens on the internets, but I think that the vast majority of consumers don't even think about the PSU when they plug it in. I'm not even saying they pull it out and say "whoa, that's big." Instead, they pull it out, plug it in, and never even notice it.

On a related note, anyone ever see the size of the 130w PSU for the Dell Inspiron line? Since it's a laptop, I am directly affected by this behemoth. No kidding, it adds about a couple pounds to my laptop bag.

.Sis

Shifty Geezer

16-Oct-2005, 19:17

I honestly can't imagine the PSU having any emotional value to the consumer at all. Designers will tell you otherwise. Pretty much everything has an impact on the overall experience. The feel of the plastic, the shape of the connectors, and every other little experience has, by their reckoning, at least a subconscious effect. It's not something you'd necessarily pick up on when opening a package, but if you were to do a test-case study with 100 people opening an XB360 with a dinky, stylish PSU and another 100 people opening an XB360 with a huge grey lump of a PSU, and you asked them at the end to rate the XB360's design etc., those with the dinky PSU will likely rate the experience higher. But as I say it's a miniscule rating and not much worth bothering about.

Though I will say the external PSU can prove a problem if cables don't run long enough, and even then some people have their console squeezed in a little space where there's not much option to hide the PSU.

expletive

16-Oct-2005, 21:46

What if the 360s PSU is 2x as big as the ps3, will people think the 360 is more powerful since it needs twice as much electricity? :)

J

randycat99

16-Oct-2005, 22:00

No, it will just stand out as extreme tackiness like those cars with the 4" exhaust tips, but wouldn't break 150 hp even in dreams.

(Therein lies the relevance of my earlier inquiry, that we should attempt to tie a power rating to the brick. Once the power rating is known, it will put the size of the brick in perspective. Given the power rating, the brick may be the size one would expect, or it may be gratuitously big for some odd reason, or surprisingly small. There is no context, until we have a power rating, ultimately.)

Acert93

16-Oct-2005, 22:08

Designers will tell you otherwise. Pretty much everything has an impact on the overall experience. The feel of the plastic, the shape of the connectors, and every other little experience has, by their reckoning, at least a subconscious effect. It's not something you'd necessarily pick up on when opening a package, but if you were to do a test-case study with 100 people opening an XB360 with a dinky, stylish PSU and another 100 people opening an XB360 with a huge grey lump of a PSU, and you asked them at the end to rate the XB360's design etc., those with the dinky PSU will likely rate the experience higher. But as I say it's a miniscule rating and not much worth bothering about. In MS's case they don't care because anyone opening the box has bought the product ;)

So hide the darn thing from the eyes of all consumers UNTIL they get the thing home. Good old bait and switch! :lol: Anyhow, people buy consoles to play them. While the look of the unit itself is a small factor among some (matching an entertainment deck is important these days!), I cannot ever remember a console's power supply ever being an important factor. The N64 had a quasi external PSU, the GCN had one also. Ditto the PS2Slim. In thinking back to PS2 Slim discussions or GCN discussions I cannot think of once when someone brought up the PSU. Tens of thousands of people bought the PS2 Slim because it looked hot. I don't think they really cared (or even knew!) about the PSU.

So it may have a minor impact in the impression it gives some consumers--and may even be a make or break for hundreds of gamers--but it really is a non-issue for all practical purposes for almost all consumers. They will buy the console for the games, and maybe even how it looks. But the hideous power supply will be an unknown until they open the box. And even then it will end up tucked away behind an entertainment unit or a desk in most situations.

expletive

16-Oct-2005, 22:10

Ok my sense of humor just isnt translating to forum-speak well today ( i wonder if it ever did... ).

expletive

16-Oct-2005, 22:12

I dont think ive heard this much discussion about a power supply since the pre-release photos of the voodo 5 PC cards.

http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_image.asp?fs_article_id=504&pic_id=3

Oddly, those never made it to market!

J

randycat99

16-Oct-2005, 22:24

I would like to clarify for the record that my curiosity of the whole PSU thing is not because I think it has some bearing on consumer desireability, but just a curiosity of where next gen consoles will end up in power ratings (since we've discussed vigorously in the past about heavy power consumptions in fancy chip architectures). So this is just the natural follow-up for that whole line of thought, imo.

Generally, I agree that most consumers will not care of the size, as long as it can still easily be stowed out of sight. There may be some peripheral discussions on just how large can an ext PSU go before it actually does become unacceptable in the eyes of the consumer (another topic, of course).

Mefisutoferesu

16-Oct-2005, 22:26

The reason it's getting discussion is probably because no one was expecting it. From everything we heard and just the overall feel, I don't think anyone was really expecting a brick for the 360, so it was a surprise. Combine that with the fact that it's rather large and you've got plenty to talk about. Had this been the brick for the Revolution I don't think it would have garnered as much attention simply because everyone expected a brick. Indeed, I think it smacks a bit of the fantasy vs the doable reality of what these consoles will be. Hype has a much farther reaching grasp than just graphics and games and who's number one.

mckmas8808

16-Oct-2005, 23:13

Generally, I agree that most consumers will not care of the size, as long as it can still easily be stowed out of sight.

Or unless they want to catch ghost. :razz: *dances screaming ghostbusters*

Sis

16-Oct-2005, 23:35

BlueTsunami

17-Oct-2005, 00:11

Of course its better to have a brick externely than internally. I can only imagine that thing inside the 360, it would make a noticeable difference aesthetically. Now the ghost catching part, I find that kind of gimmicky. Hopefully developers come up with some good uses for it.

Bad_Boy

17-Oct-2005, 00:46

It was a joke. :)

EDIT: On a more serious note, are there any exhaust ports on the PS3 pics? I havent seen any yet. Could it be possible to cool that electronics without an exhaust/fans? MY understanding is that even watercooled setups have some quiet fans somewhere in the pipeline...

J
lol mybad, sarcasm is a bitch online :P

about your edit:
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5632/newx70sf.jpg
maybe we will see if they made any design changes during the oct 22nd-30th stuff

Acert93

17-Oct-2005, 00:48

Now the ghost catching part, I find that kind of gimmicky. Hopefully developers come up with some good uses for it. :lol:

Like I said, the thing is hideous. But a smaller console + huge brick or huge console + internal PSU I take the smaller console every time. Just my preference...

Not to mention I like to catch ghosts! Gimmick or not catching the undead and storing them in your 360 could be a HUGE advantage in online games! :wink:

scooby_dooby

17-Oct-2005, 01:25

lol mybad, sarcasm is a bitch online :P

about your edit:
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5632/newx70sf.jpg
maybe we will see if they made any design changes during the oct 22nd-30th stuff

If the PS3 is standing like the picture above the vents on the bottom would be blocked, the only vents that can flow are up by the BR drive, leaving no vents down by the CPU and GPU????

DigitalSoul

17-Oct-2005, 01:32

If the PS3 is standing like the picture above the vents on the bottom would be blocked, the only vents that can flow are up by the BR drive, leaving no vents down by the CPU and GPU????

I don't think there are vents at the bottom. At the bottom is where the HDD slot is, I believe.

aaaaa00

17-Oct-2005, 01:43

There are nowhere near enough vents in the prototype PS3 pics that I've seen posted on the net.

Either we're missing some angles, or they're going to add more vents on the final console.

Tap In

17-Oct-2005, 01:57

much ado about nothing ;)

mckmas8808

17-Oct-2005, 05:47

:lol: Not to mention I like to catch ghosts! Gimmick or not catching the undead and storing them in your 360 could be a HUGE advantage in online games! :wink:

OMG! This quote is so funny I can't stop reading it. Oh I got to go to the bathroom now. *runs*

Shifty Geezer

17-Oct-2005, 10:06

I don't think there are vents at the bottom. At the bottom is where the HDD slot is, I believe.Airflow will be interesting with only one set of holes. Where's air in and air out? Also it looks like a 3 pin AC 'Kettle plug' connection for power, suggesting an internal PSU. There's going to be a lot of heat there and need for some hoofy cooling setup.

LunchBox

17-Oct-2005, 12:28

Why is there so much discussion about the size of this PSU? Who cares!

I think it's because most of the other components were already exhaustedly discussed before...

psu's for now...

plastic interiors next :)

london-boy

17-Oct-2005, 13:00

Sis

17-Oct-2005, 15:44

Right, not to detract from the silly talk, but i'm still not sure why this thing is so bloody big!

I mean i have a 450W PSU in my PC, and i really really don't think the X360 PSU will be that powerful, it just doesn't need to be. My 450W PSU is a standard sized PC PSU, which is much smaller than that Ghostbusters trap.

My LCD screen has an external PSU and it's rather small, surely much smaller than the trap.

i just don't know why this thing is so big!
Well, like I said in an earlier post, my Dell inspiron has a huge PSU:

Dimensions (WxDxH): 3.4" x 6.7" x 1.6"

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?TabPage=techspecs&sku=320-2746&category_id=5436&brandid=56&c=us&l=en&cs=19

The Inspiron is a 3.2 ghz p4. Of course, the X360 won't be powering a monitor, but it will have the tri-core chip and 12x DVD constantly spinning...

.Sis

Mefisutoferesu

17-Oct-2005, 15:57

Well, you have to remember a brick is passively cooled, though I have seen passively cooled computer PSUs (550watts even) as well, but they count on airflow from some other fan in the rig.

MrWibble

17-Oct-2005, 16:00

Well, you have to remember a brick is passively cooled, though I have seen passively cooled computer PSUs (550watts even) as well, but they count on airflow from some other fan in the rig.

Not necessarily true in either case.

I have external power bricks for a couple of things that have small fans in. And I have a PC which has a pretty decent PSU and the whole PC is entirely passively cooled...

Mariner

17-Oct-2005, 18:01

Not necessarily true in either case.

I have external power bricks for a couple of things that have small fans in. And I have a PC which has a pretty decent PSU and the whole PC is entirely passively cooled...

Yes, but how hot does your passive PSU get? Even the most efficient/coolest passive PC PSU (currently the Antec Phantom) gets quite hot under load and there were reliability problems with the early models.

For silent PCs you want to remove as much of the heat from the case as possible and I'd expect the same should be true of the new consoles. Therefore, it seems much better to me to have a DC-DC converter (which emits an insignificant amount of heat) in the PC itself in conjunction with an external AC adaptor brick. Shuttle are actually doing this with a couple of their new PCs - I believe one of them has a 220W brick which is the highest-powered (fanless) brick that I've seen reported.

The (apparent) size of the XB360 AC brick makes me wonder how much power this needs to supply although I'd still be amazed if the console required more than 200W.

Personally, I'd be more alarmed if the system didn't have an external PSU as this would tend to indicate that more internal cooling was required. I'd also be very surprised if PS3 and Revolution didn't have eternal bricks unless, of course, PS3 requires more power than current 'bricks' can supply! :shock:

As for the size of the brick itself. Who cares?

MrWibble

17-Oct-2005, 18:37

Yes, but how hot does your passive PSU get? Even the most efficient/coolest passive PC PSU (currently the Antec Phantom) gets quite hot under load and there were reliability problems with the early models.

Note, it's not the PSU that's passive but the whole PC... however the machine gets very hot to the touch, but is not unstable in the slightest. It hasn't been turned off in months. It's not top-end in spec but that was a deliberate choice and not a requirement of running without a fan.

I have a fanless PSU (yes, an Antec Phantom, as it happens) in another machine but it does have airflow due to my cooling the drives mounted nearby. It's no good for a comparison but FWIW it's stable too...

Personally I do care a little about the size of the PSU because I don't have anywhere good to hide it - however it's only a minor issue and not one that'd seriously sway me for long.

Shifty Geezer

17-Oct-2005, 19:06

Personally, I'd be more alarmed if the system didn't have an external PSU as this would tend to indicate that more internal cooling was required. I'd also be very surprised if PS3 and Revolution didn't have eternal bricks unless, of course, PS3 requires more power than current 'bricks' can supply! :shock: As I mentioned earlier, that pic of PS3 looks very much like a conventional AC plug. And if it isn't, the design choice is confusing; why design a proprietary connector so close to an existing standard? So either this is a prototype and PS3 will really have an alternative external AC adapter, I'm seeing the picture wrong, or the AC conversion happens in the PS3 itself.

Can we (or rather, people other than me ;) ) make a guess on power requirements of 4 GHz Cell and 550 MHz RSX (assume as G70) based on existing info?

Guden Oden

17-Oct-2005, 19:34

There are nowhere near enough vents in the prototype PS3 pics that I've seen posted on the net.

Either we're missing some angles, or they're going to add more vents on the final console.
I'd guess there will be vents in the bottom as well. Check x360, you'll see there are vents there, and the rubber feet lift the console a couple mms off the surface it stands on so that air can be drawn in.

There's also the possibility one or more of the sides of the PS3 casing is made out of some alu or magnesium alloy to act as one big passive heatsink, like many laptops are, though I wouldn't expect it...

Mefisutoferesu

17-Oct-2005, 19:42

I believe it's a prototype, Shifty. If recall correctly and I never do, the XBox 360 at one point had an AC plug too, though that was long ago. Anyway... from what I can garner, which isn't much

BRD -- 20 watts -- This is based on the Blu-ray spec... may have changed by now though.
CELL -- 40 watts -- A 4GHz CELL was supposed to be around 80watts, so 3.2 and a disable SPE should be a good bit cooler, especially since the volatge ramps down pretty dramatically.
RSX -- 60 watts -- G70 is 70watts as it is now, add some MHz and a process shrink and something along there sounds OK... like I know what I think I know I'm talking about or something... ( >.>) (<.< ) ( >.>)
System features -- 10watts -- Last I heard things like Blue Tooth were very low power and I can't imagine the other innards taking up much.

Grand Total -- 130watts. Kinda scary. Thankfully it's just guessing.

BlueTsunami

17-Oct-2005, 20:08

Grand Total -- 130watts. Kinda scary. Thankfully it's just guessing.

My PSU on my PC is 500Watts, i'm also pretty sure its consuming around 400. I cry whenever I have it on (not in the joyfull happy way).

Shifty Geezer

17-Oct-2005, 20:27

Grand Total -- 130watts. Kinda scary. Thankfully it's just guessing.150 watts worst case then probably. And XB360 can't be any more than that. What's the smallest (economical) PSU fo rthe job? My Googling was useless

Alpha_Spartan

17-Oct-2005, 20:44

My only concern is how hot will this thing get? Laptops use external power adapters and they run hot as hell. Holding it in your hand could burn you. The back of my entertainment center is kinda cramped and sometimes paper is behind it and I don't want it to be a fire hazard.

Anyways, it's huge but at least it's not internal. The 360 would need to be the size of a PC.

Alpha_Spartan

17-Oct-2005, 20:58

Right, not to detract from the silly talk, but i'm still not sure why this thing is so bloody big!

I mean i have a 450W PSU in my PC, and i really really don't think the X360 PSU will be that powerful, it just doesn't need to be. My 450W PSU is a standard sized PC PSU, which is much smaller than that Ghostbusters trap.

My LCD screen has an external PSU and it's rather small, surely much smaller than the trap.

i just don't know why this thing is so big!
The fact that it's passively cooled means the volume has to be large enough to displace the heat. If your PC PSU running at 450W didn't have two fans, it would nearly be half the size of your case. I won't be surprised if the "brick" is actually pretty light as most of the surface area is used to diffuse heat.

Nite_Hawk

17-Oct-2005, 22:26

150 watts worst case then probably. And XB360 can't be any more than that. What's the smallest (economical) PSU fo rthe job? My Googling was useless

They (both MS and Sony) also need to handle power to the HD which is going to be another 10-20w (higher on spinup). The big issue is that they want a consistent power supply more so than a big one. They'll probably be fine with ~160-180w, but they'll want nice consistent rails, and that comes at a price too.

Edit: Forgot they are using a 2.5" disk. That should be lower power, so maybe 150-170...

Nite_Hawk

expletive

18-Oct-2005, 01:05

If the PS3 is standing like the picture above the vents on the bottom would be blocked, the only vents that can flow are up by the BR drive, leaving no vents down by the CPU and GPU????

I thought the same thing when i saw it. There will probably be more vents behind or on top somewhere on the final unit.

J

london-boy

18-Oct-2005, 09:58

The fact that it's passively cooled means the volume has to be large enough to displace the heat. If your PC PSU running at 450W didn't have two fans, it would nearly be half the size of your case. I won't be surprised if the "brick" is actually pretty light as most of the surface area is used to diffuse heat.

Yeah i was thinking that while i was typing (quite intuitive really), but thought i'd just finish the post... err..

Guden Oden

18-Oct-2005, 11:46

They (both MS and Sony) also need to handle power to the HD which is going to be another 10-20w (higher on spinup).
I noticed your edit, and your figures are still way off. Modern desktop drives don't even draw 10W, and much less 20! Check Seagate's site, the Momentus (which is what we'll see in x360 from what I've seen on the web) draws 5W on spinup, less than that when idling. Power draw and heat is essentially negligible where a 1-platter 1-head 2.5" drive is concerned, and even if it was 20W on spinup, you're not going to have either CPU or GPU running at full tilt during system boot.

mckmas8808

19-Oct-2005, 19:56

Better picture of the PSU's compared size in relation to the Xbox 360.

http://img12.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-12609/loc24/106_x3.jpg

Wow!

aldo

20-Oct-2005, 17:42

Q. Considering power of CELL and GPU, the case size, and the internal power unit, it seems tough to manage heat. How is the noise?
A. Since quietness is very important, our hardware team is trying to make it as quiet as possible. Of course it has all power-saving efforts in the chip-level. Though it’s not compared with PS2 yet, I’d like to make it more quiet in the final product.- ps3today (http://www.ps3today.com/Blogs/News/hqs/blr_551.aspx)
(Interview with Masayuki Chatani, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.’s Chief Technology Officer) It would be pretty amazing if this were true.

Note that the interviewer acknowledges that managing the heat would be "tough" with the CELL, GPU, and the power supply inside the small PS3 case and Chatani responds mostly to the interviewer's last question regarding noise. Was he dodging a bullet? Most likely.

Still he doesn't deny that there is an internal PSU and he appears to touch on the heating issue a bit when he says, "Of course it has all power-saving efforts in the chip-level." And I wonder where the interviewer got his information. Perhaps he was just making an assumption.

My own personal conclusion, based on what appears to be an obvious dodge by Chatani, assumes for now that the PS3 will sport a nice little external brick much like the X360.

-aldo

mckmas8808

20-Oct-2005, 18:46

I'll personally be surprised if the PS3 has a internal power supply, but if they do great job Sony.

scooby_dooby

21-Oct-2005, 06:48

The REAL brick surfaces...

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000150064421/

oxygen_again

21-Oct-2005, 06:56

The REAL brick surfaces...

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000150064421/Fake. This is the real PSU.

http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc28&image=b55_XBox360_PSU_copy.jpg

Hitman006xp

21-Oct-2005, 14:49

Hi@ all

some already asked why there's no picture of the PSU datas... how man Volt and so on...

Here is what u want
http://www.speed-is-everything.de/smartxx_xbx360-01.JPG

And yea IT IS REAL... at least for the devkits... and i think also for the retail ones... but who cares?

Carl B

21-Oct-2005, 14:55

Well, I was right in my guess of a ~200 watt max power draw. Damn but I'm good. ;)

Nice find by the way Hitman - welcome to the forum.

BlueTsunami

21-Oct-2005, 15:00

Hitman006xp

21-Oct-2005, 15:04

yea;) i registered to give u that information;)

By the way... i've all the pictures of the Dev kit that where released by smartXX... i saved them on my HDD before the where taken away...

Guden Oden

21-Oct-2005, 15:46

yea;) i registered to give u that information;)
That pic you posted has made the rounds on this site at least once before, but I still thank you for your effort. :)

The pic of the smaller powerbrick is almost certainly for a flatscreen. Look at it, you'll see there is no grounded powerplug attaching to it. Any major computing equipment is almost certainly grounded these days. Besides, its size looks disproportionally small compared to the power draw x360 is certain to have. Though the giant brick looks disproportionally large I might add... ;)

london-boy

21-Oct-2005, 15:50

yea:wink: i registered to give u that information:wink:

That pic you posted has made the rounds on this site at least once before, but I still thank you for your effort. :)

You basically told him he could have avoided registering. :twisted:

Hitman006xp

21-Oct-2005, 16:11

dose it matter that it was alredy seen somewhere on this site?
I read this whole thread... and some people where asking...

Andin this thread wasn't any link to that pic... and i know that these pictures has been removed from all official sites by request from Microsoft... and that it's not so easy to find these pictures anymore... but i still had all the pics and posted this one cause of the PSU discoussion in THIS thread^^

so let's all be happy and get ready to buy a Xbox360 on Dec.2nd:P (at least here in germany;) nov.22nd in USA right? At least on that Wallmart pics of the Kiosk stood available nov. 22nd

mckmas8808

21-Oct-2005, 18:31

It's funny how far joystiq will go to make the Xbox 360 look better, while they go out of their way to make the PS3 look worst by speading incorrect information of the Blu-ray drive.:???:

randycat99

22-Oct-2005, 05:32

wow thing pumps out 200+ wattage

Yes, that is an impressive hunk of power supply there! That is just the output, not to mention that is some serious current flowing on that 12v line.

Consider the input rating which tells you how much power that supply is sucking down to actually create the clean, computer grade DC at the output...600 friggen watts! (at max load and short term, of course) This is one serious power supply- no doubt about it. Running at high loads for sustained periods, that thing is gonna get toasty with 300-400 W to dissipate in waste heat alone.

This now gives us some context as to if it really is "big" or "small". I think it is impressive it isn't bigger, given the power ratings. At the least, it is ballsy the thing isn't packaged in an integrated, hefty aluminum heatsink chassis, rather than wrapped in plastic. I think it is pretty clear by now this ain't no switching PSU, either. ;)

EDIT: That "600 W" figure may need some extra calculation since it pertains to an AC condition. I've long since forgotten what the pertaining equation is...something to do with RMS and square roots, blah-blah-blah. Maybe 420 W or so (which would jive well with a typical 50% conversion efficiency which results in the 200-ish W DC output).

Guden Oden

22-Oct-2005, 12:38

dose it matter that it was alredy seen somewhere on this site?
No, not really. Just mentioned it, that's all (gotta maintain the site's rep as a place where the news is hot you know! ;))

Randy,
The input current on the PSU isn't 600W, that's patently rediculous to say the least. It's not even going to be 400W, because well-designed PSUs aren't only 50% efficient. Yes, I assume MS will include a well-designed PSU. They're just incredibly greedy, not not inept. :grin:

At 70% efficiency at max rating (which is fairly normal with PSUs from what I've read) it'd likely draw around 260W input power.

randycat99

22-Oct-2005, 21:10

You don't have to guess, if you know the AC power equations. The required data points are provided right in the picture. I agree that 600 W is not the right figure (as was already indicated in my earlier post).

Fwiw, "input current" is not measured in "watts".

one

24-Oct-2005, 15:28

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000693064752/
Now we’ve recieved another shot of the brick power supply connected to an Xbox 360. This time we’re pretty much assured it’s a retail model since it’s connected to an Xbox 360 in the display case, in a Wal-Mart. Bummer.

one

26-Oct-2005, 13:01

http://www1.kcn.ne.jp/~uchiuchi/imgup/icon/200510262108423.jpeg
According to Famitsu, the max power consumption of Xbox 360 is 254W. In idle time it's 116W. The AC adaptor has 2 fans and the dimension is 210mm x 75mm x 54mm.

Shifty Geezer

26-Oct-2005, 13:13

2 fans in the adapter? And there'll need to be 1 or 2 fans in the XB360 to dissipate that 200+ watts heat beign generated. Hopefully they're big, slow, quiet fans, accounting for the PSU's size.

one

26-Oct-2005, 13:42

2 fans in the adapter? And there'll need to be 1 or 2 fans in the XB360 to dissipate that 200+ watts heat beign generated. Hopefully they're big, slow, quiet fans, accounting for the PSU's size.
As the wattage for the devkit PSU was 213W, they might add fans and thicken it for the extra security of the retail version. FYI, the chart in the right side of the pic reads like

Xbox 360 - max 254W/idle 116W
Xbox - max 200W
Playstation 2 - 45W
Gamecube - 39W
iron - 1000W
microwave - 600W
desktop PC - 100W
TV - 90W
fridge - 60W
notebook PC - 40W

Shifty Geezer

26-Oct-2005, 13:52

That's the new PS2 I presume. Don't suppose anyone knows what the original PS2 drew? And 200 W for the XB, that thing was loud.:???:

randycat99

27-Oct-2005, 03:35

2 fans in the adapter?...Hopefully they're big, slow, quiet fans, accounting for the PSU's size.

I'd say the giant iron bar transformer inside accounts for the PSU's size. :p

randycat99

27-Oct-2005, 03:55

That's the new PS2 I presume. Don't suppose anyone knows what the original PS2 drew? And 200 W for the XB, that thing was loud.:???:

I have an "older" model (but not the 1st edition) that lists 75W for the "input" power consumption. So maybe 40 W wouldn't be far off for the actual DC power consumption of the console. (Then again, maybe this list of power ratings isn't keeping the distinction between AC input and DC output intact, so comparisons could be pointless for this data?)

27-Oct-2005, 07:45

So at the end of the day, does the Xbox360 indeed consume more watts than the Xbox?

one

27-Oct-2005, 08:23

So at the end of the day, does the Xbox360 indeed consume more watts than the Xbox?Consumes more in gaming, but perhaps less in playing DVD? (2 cores sleeping)

45W is indeed for the new slim PS2
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/520668.asp
Dimensions:
Approximately 230 mm (W) ×28 mm (H) ×152 mm (D)*internal volume about 23% of the current model

Electrical current consumption (power consumption): Approximately 5.3A (approximately 45W)
The Xbox 360 AC adaptor is almost the same volume as the new PS2 console itself :shock:

gurrke

27-Oct-2005, 08:26

So at the end of the day, does the Xbox360 indeed consume more watts than the Xbox?

I think so....

gurrke

27-Oct-2005, 08:29

Consumes more in gaming, but perhaps less in playing DVD? (2 cores sleeping)

I think one Core + GPU would take more Watt as the old Xbox :grin:

one

27-Oct-2005, 11:40

kiosk PSU
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/kiosk/etw2eu.jpg
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/psu/eu20pt.jpg
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/psu/eu20w1.jpg

Powderkeg

27-Oct-2005, 15:10

So at the end of the day, does the Xbox360 indeed consume more watts than the Xbox?

That depends on what you have attached to it. The power supply not only has to supply the console, but you may have 2 wireless controllers charging via the USB ports while playing and the Camera or wireless adapter all running as well.

It's got to be able to power and charge peripherals as well as the console itself.

Nite_Hawk

27-Oct-2005, 21:27

I noticed your edit, and your figures are still way off. Modern desktop drives don't even draw 10W, and much less 20! Check Seagate's site, the Momentus (which is what we'll see in x360 from what I've seen on the web) draws 5W on spinup, less than that when idling. Power draw and heat is essentially negligible where a 1-platter 1-head 2.5" drive is concerned, and even if it was 20W on spinup, you're not going to have either CPU or GPU running at full tilt during system boot.

<shrug> The original Western Digital xbox drive (well, the WD84EB which is close) takes about 18w on spin up. According to the data on the following page, a number of newer drives consumer between 7.6 and 9.5 watts at idle, which isn't much lower than my original 10watt figure (those drives will certainly consume more at spinup). I don't really think my original figures were that far off for 3.5" drives. Considering that the xbox360 is using a 2.5" drive, it's not really relevant either way.

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=diamondmax10&page=2

Nite_Hawk

scooby_dooby

27-Oct-2005, 21:45

Here's a good comparison pick:
http://www.soneraplaza.fi/GetImages/GetImages_GetImage_jpg/0,2600,65594,00.jpg

Mefisutoferesu

27-Oct-2005, 22:18

Here's a good comparison pick:
http://www.soneraplaza.fi/GetImages/GetImages_GetImage_jpg/0,2600,65594,00.jpg

Now this is something I've never understood with these comparison pictures. Would it kill someone to, Oh I don't know, USE A RULER IN THE COMPARISON!??! Sheesh, I've never seen the controller in reall life, so it honestly doesn't help me. I dunno know why people seem so set on using anything BUT a ruler.

Shifty Geezer

27-Oct-2005, 22:23

:lol:

scooby_dooby

27-Oct-2005, 22:24

Now this is something I've never understood with these comparison pictures. Would it kill someone to, Oh I don't know, USE A RULER IN THE COMPARISON!??! Sheesh, I've never seen the controller in reall life, so it honestly doesn't help me. I dunno know why people seem so set on using anything BUT a ruler.

well it's the same size as the current XBOX controller, only a little slimmer

BlueTsunami

27-Oct-2005, 22:25

Now this is something I've never understood with these comparison pictures. Would it kill someone to, Oh I don't know, USE A RULER IN THE COMPARISON!??! Sheesh, I've never seen the controller in reall life, so it honestly doesn't help me. I dunno know why people seem so set on using anything BUT a ruler.

I agree with this post. I think rulers are a scarce commodity now a days though....

Guden Oden

27-Oct-2005, 22:36

It's got to be able to power and charge peripherals as well as the console itself.
USB ports are only specced for 500mA @ 5V (2.5W), so peripherals will be a negligible drain compared to the whole. Btw, I seriously doubt the 200W figure for the original box. Even assuming both the CPU and the GPU draws 50W each (which they certainly don't), the rest of the components wouldn't add up to the remainder by far.

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 02:06

If the 200 W figure was determined by reading the back of the Xbox case, then likely it is the AC power draw, not the DC power consumption of the actual console componentry (whereas the 200-ish W rating of the XB360 is the DC power consumption). This is the big problem as soon as we are comparing the "power ratings" of devices with internal power supplies with those with external power supplies. The "power rating" has a context that needs to accompany the power rating or comparisons are damn near pointless. Internal PSU devices typically cite the AC power draw, while external PSU's typically cite data to give both AC input power and DC output power. If someone is building a table of "power ratings" for different devices, but ignoring the AC or DC context, there is no guarantee the results have any basis for comparison.

robofunk

28-Oct-2005, 02:29

PC-Engine

28-Oct-2005, 02:35

I think some people are getting confused. That brick is just an external PS. Inside that brick is probably a 150-200W PS like the kind used inside 1U rack blade servers. Yes compared to the "AC adaptors" for notebooks it looks big but there's nothing bizarre about it. As long as the cord is long enough for you to place the console on a table that's about 4ft high and the brick on the ground there shouldn't be a problem.

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 02:45

Ok so from this picture. http://www.speed-is-everything.de/smartxx_xbx360-01.JPG

Max DC output wattage is 213W. At optimal AC-DC conversion is 70.7% efficiency, that would make the max consumed wattage ~300W. The brick says is consumes ~2.7A at 100-240V (notice the spelling mistake, 100V is standard in Japan), 300W/2.7A gives us ~110V which is the standard voltage for North America (not 120V, real RMS AC voltage is closer to 110V).

That current rating is going to be different depending on if the PSU is set for 110 V or 240 V. So it's not exactly clear which voltage the given current rating applies to (hence, this will affect the power you calculate). Additionally, calculation of AC power from voltage and current has an "extra step" than calculation of DC power from voltage and current (P=IV applies directly for DC calculations). (I don't reject the results you have provided, outright, but I do see some points that are questionable.)

robofunk

28-Oct-2005, 02:57

That current rating is going to be different depending on if the PSU is set for 110 V or 240 V. So it's not exactly clear which voltage the given current rating applies to (hence, this will affect the power you calculate). Additionally, calculation of AC power from voltage and current has an "extra step" than calculation of DC power from voltage and current (P=IV applies directly for DC calculations). (I don't reject the results you have provided, outright, but I do see some points that are questionable.)

I contend that they used standard North American voltage to calculate/measure the ammount of AC current, they clearly indicate its an aproximate number anyway. I worked backwards from the DC wattage to calculate the AC wattage so the AC current doesn't really matter, I just wanted to back up my AC 300W claims. And 300W at 110V and 2.7A fits perfectly.

28-Oct-2005, 03:00

That depends on what you have attached to it. The power supply not only has to supply the console, but you may have 2 wireless controllers charging via the USB ports while playing and the Camera or wireless adapter all running as well.

It's got to be able to power and charge peripherals as well as the console itself.

Ok, so my next question is, is this the sign of things to come for all next gen systems, that the power requirements have gone up?

one

28-Oct-2005, 03:02

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 03:09

Yes, it does fit "perfectly", but you cannot calculate AC power like that anyway (to achieve the fit you have identified). ;) That's the problem. If you at least account for the RMS AC effect like I did to come up with the 400 W AC figure earlier on, then your figure comes out to 200-ish W AC, which wouldn't make any sense as that implies a near 100% efficient power supply (which would further beg the question of why would you need 2 fans inside the PSU to vacate nonexistant waste heat in a near 100% efficient PSU?).

The label clearly specs the current rating in association with the 200-ish VAC, so that is really a hard thing to simply call a typo. I have no idea if Japan uses 100 VAC or not, so I give you some amount of leeway there. Either way, that's pretty bad to have a typo (let alone a typo that is "off" to that sheer degree) on an official label for an external PSU. :p Such an ambiguous association between voltage1/voltage2 and a current rating just seems bizarre (well which voltage do you think that current applies to? Whichever one you want...ah- that's not going to fly). That kind of belies the whole "safety" component of labeling a power supply.

PC-Engine

28-Oct-2005, 03:11

Originally Posted by Powderkeg
That depends on what you have attached to it. The power supply not only has to supply the console, but you may have 2 wireless controllers charging via the USB ports while playing and the Camera or wireless adapter all running as well.

It's got to be able to power and charge peripherals as well as the console itself.

Yep and don't forget the HDD. PS3 will have what 6 USB ports?

DigitalSoul

28-Oct-2005, 03:37

Yep and don't forget the HDD. PS3 will have what 6 USB ports?

Yes, PS3 is going to require additional generators.....

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 03:46

Heh, I'm glad you took a jab at that finally (i.e., I concur with your sarcasm). :D All this talk about ports, controllers, HD's...is just silly. I doubt any of that is even remotely contributing to the power consumptions we are examining here. All of these watts are going to power the sick CPU, GPU, RAM, and system bus incarnations that will epitomize "next gen"- plain and simple!

robofunk

28-Oct-2005, 03:55

Yes, it does fit "perfectly", but you cannot calculate AC power like that anyway (to achieve the fit you have identified). ;) That's the problem. If you at least account for the AC component like I did to come up with 400 W AC earlier on, then your figure comes out to 200-ish W AC, which wouldn't make any sense as that implies a near 100% efficient power supply (which would further beg the question of why would you need 2 fans inside the PSU to vacate nonexistant waste heat in a near 100% efficient PSU?).

The label clearly specs the current rating in association with the 200-ish VAC, so that is really a hard thing to simply call a typo. I have no idea if Japan uses 100 VAC or not, so I give you some amount of leeway there. Either way, that's pretty bad to have a typo (let alone a typo that is "off" to that sheer degree) on an official label for an external PSU. :p That kind of belies the whole "safety" component of labeling a power supply.

I would argue that 70% efficiency is around the standard for computer power supplies and that my calculations are completly valid. Computer PSU power rattings are inflated so it's not a good comparison.

http://www.cepe.ethz.ch/download/staff/bernard/28_formated.pdf

Edit: Also I'm sure it's a typo because a) Why would MS make a power supply just for Europe when all new Laptop power suplies work from 100-240V 50-60Hz, also everything is cheaper in volume so why not make one PSU for the entire world and b) the PSU states that it can run at frequencys from 47-63Hz, show me a 200V+ line that runs at 60Hz.

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 04:09

computer power supplies, not just any power supply. Computer power supplies are typically switching power supplies, which also allows them to be quite compact. The looks of the XB360 PSU do not look particularly "compact" for 200 W of DC, hence it would be surprising to find it to be a switching design. It's not unusual to find a standard size PC PSU rated for 400 W of output that would be visually dwarfed by the that XB360 PSU. It just doesn't add up.

Either way, the 300 W AC rating you cite simply should not come out of the labeled numbers on the label of the PSU pic. That's all I'm saying. So you can presume the 70% efficiency to come up with 300 W, but you simply cannot say the AC voltage and current that is given support it, because that is the incorrect way to do an AC power calculation, period. That it matches up with the incorrect calculation, at all, should tell you the value is suspect.

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 04:18

Edit: Also I'm sure it's a typo because a) Why would MS make a power supply just for Europe when all new Laptop power suplies work from 100-240V 50-60Hz,...

It seems clear it isn't just for Europe, since it's got Japanese writing all over it, as well. What is possible, is that the PSU is adaptable to numerous regions. What is labeled on the outside is simply the numbers for a particular modality. Once that is locked in for a single modality, it is assumed the numbers will change correspondingly for different voltage settings (as it can be derived quite easily from the original set of numbers, at that point). It's unlikely they are just going to mix numbers from different settings to present on the label, as that would not be useful to anybody.

b) the PSU states that it can run at frequencys from 47-63Hz, show me a 200V+ line that runs at 60Hz.

There might be one at 50 Hz, which still falls in the specified range. ;)

robofunk

28-Oct-2005, 04:51

First I've finished my 3rd year of electric(al) engineering and I'm currently in Japan on an intership.

Second you are completely wrong. Say Vp is peak voltage of a sinusoidal voltage, Ip the peak sinusoidal current, Cos(X) the power factor, X is the phase difference betwen current and voltage.

P= (1/2)VpIpCos(X)
or
P=VICos(X) where V is the RMS voltage, I the RMS current.

The current and voltage given on the power brick are RMS (peak voltage for North America is around 170V). Now for the power factor, power factor is directly related to efficiency so when I say the entire power supply has 70% efficiency I don't have to take it into account.

So for 213W DC, if the efficiency is 70% then input AC power at the wall is 300W. And since I suspect they used the North American standard for voltage 110V the 2.7A number fits perfectly with the 300W number. Even at a lower efficiency like 66% the input power is 324W which would point to an equally valid voltage of 120V.

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 05:06

Say Vp is peak voltage of a sinusoidal voltage, Ip the peak sinusoidal current, Cos(X) the power factor, X is the phase difference betwen current and voltage.

power factor? Are you expecting unusually high reactance imbalance in a power supply? This isn't a giant electrical motor on a factory floor.

The current and voltage given on the power brick are RMS...

This part is suspect, but if you say so, then it does make the calculations quite simple. It also makes "600 W" just as plausible as "300 W". So I guess we are at an impass.

Now for the power factor, power factor is directly related to efficiency so when I say the entire power supply has 70% efficiency I don't have to take it into account.

"Power factor" is going to be just about nill unless you have something like a giant electric motor or a huge grid of capacitors. The only thing we need be concerned about wrt "efficiency" is how much ends up as "clean" power vs. how much ends up as waste heat. Huge inductance and/or capacitance doesn't necessarily generate waste heat, but it does store energy.

And since I suspect they used the North American standard for voltage 110V the 2.7A number fits perfectly with the 300W number.

The "suspect" part makes this a shakey point, but you made your point.

robofunk

28-Oct-2005, 05:29

power factor? Are you expecting unusually high reactance imbalance in a power supply? This isn't a giant electrical motor on a factory floor.

This part is suspect, but if you say so, then it does make the calculations quite simple. It also makes "600 W" just as plausible as "300 W". So I guess we are at an impass.

"Power factor" is going to be just about nill unless you have something like a giant electric motor or a huge grid of capacitors. The only thing we need be concerned about wrt "efficiency" is how much ends up as "clean" power vs. how much ends up as waste heat. Huge inductance and/or capacitance doesn't necessarily generate waste heat, but it does store energy.

The "suspect" part makes this a shakey point, but you made your point.

*Sigh* Go back and look at the article I posted, power factor is of big importance in it. Not that it matters in tthis discussion, your whole point was that I was performing the calculations wrong, if power factor is of no importance that only make my calculations more valid. I think I've proved sufficiently that the Xbox 360 power supply at most uses around 300W. In normal use I would say that number is A LOT lower but at worse efficiency.

PC-Engine

28-Oct-2005, 05:37

Computer power supplies are typically switching power supplies, which also allows them to be quite compact. The looks of the XB360 PSU do not look particularly "compact" for 200 W of DC, hence it would be surprising to find it to be a switching design.

Have you seen a 200W 1U PSU?

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 05:40

If power factor was of any substantial degree in a power supply, that would imply a serious mismatch in inductance and capacitance in the design, which would furthermore suggest it is a very poor design to begin with. The whole point of a "high-grade" PSU is to match up the capacitance to the inductance for optimum energy transfer, along with adequate filtering to reduce the ripple in the DC output as much as is cost-practical. If you got PF dropping 30% losses in a power supply, you got a serious problem. ;) (Hint: PF is usually an issue in the "device" that is being powered, if it is an issue, rather than the thing that is making the power, i.e., a PSU)

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 05:44

Have you seen a 200W 1U PSU?

Yeah, I'd say the PSU for a server rack is under considerably more stringent tolerances for stability, reliability, and power quality than a power brick for a CE device. Hefty size is to be expected, and there is no requirement to fit into a standard PC case.

PC-Engine

28-Oct-2005, 05:48

Yeah, I'd say the PSU for a server rack is under considerably more stringent tolerances for stability, reliability, and power quality than a power brick for a CE device. Hefty size is to be expected, and there is no requirement to fit into a standard PC case.

A 200W 1U PSU isn't large at all but it isn't small like laptop bricks either. In fact it occupies about the same volume as that Xbox 360 brick. I don't see why it couldn't be a switching PSU from just looking at the size.

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 05:54

"Large" compared to what? ...compared to a 400-500 W PSU that goes in a standard PC case? That was the context you took my remark out of, and you bring server equipment into the mix just to make a point? Gimme a friggin break! I don't know if you are trying to imply the X360 PSU comes from a server design or what, but assuredly it is quite closer in design standards to what goes in a consumer PC than server gear. In that respect, it is large for the power output. Case closed.

robofunk

28-Oct-2005, 06:01

There's probably any number of reasons why it's so big. Remember the power cord recall the Xbox had, bet MS doesn't want that to happen again.

randycat99

28-Oct-2005, 06:05

...not to mention it just might not be the fanciest switching design from the computer realm. It's not good or bad either way. Just trying to put things in perspective, here, given the information we have available.

PC-Engine

28-Oct-2005, 06:32

In that respect, it is large for the power output. Case closed.

The PSU for GCN seems large for it's power output too, but when you actually open it up most of it is empty space. :wink:

28-Oct-2005, 07:56

The PSU for GCN seems large for it's power output too, but when you actually open it up most of it is empty space. :wink:

There must be a reason WHY they intentionally make it so large. What does the extra space give them?

PC-Engine

28-Oct-2005, 08:20

There must be a reason WHY they intentionally make it so large. What does the extra space give them?

I'm guessing a couple of reasons both of which fall under safety. With a big shell, it's less of a fire hazard because the large shell creates a distance isolating it from the actual hot components of the PSU. The other reason is to prevent burns from people touching the PSU. A laptop brick gets pretty darn hot to the touch due to the hot components fitting snugly against the brick shell.

rabidrabbit

28-Oct-2005, 09:07

I got an idea that MS marketing people should consider.
They could label the power supply PS360, so when people open the xbox360 box and see the power supply with the xbox, the first impression would be that they've got two consoles for the price of one, and xbox plus a new PlayStation!!
It's the first impression that counts ;)

one

12-Nov-2005, 03:44

From the UK retail package -
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=387765

ps2xboxcube

12-Nov-2005, 07:01

Giant AC Adapter Confirmed for Retail Xbox 360

According to Famitsu, the Xbox 360's AC adaptor is the largest of any game console, with a length of 210 mm, width of 75 mm and height of 54 mm. The Japanese game magazine obtained an advance shipment of a limited edition Xbox 360 launch pack (retail approx $336), which included the console, a LAN cable, a D-terminal video cable, AC adapter, 20GB HD, Xbox 360 remote control, one wireless controller and a limited edition headset.
The adapter itself is roughly 85 percent in volume of the slim PS2 (850.5 cubic centimeters versus 978.9 cubic centimeters)--easily surpassing the size of the current-gen Xbox adapter.

According to Microsoft, the larger adapter is due to the higher electrical power consumption of the Xbox 360. The max power consumption of Microsoft's next-gen console is 254 watts--notably higher than the 200 watts for the Xbox and dwarfing the 45 watts for the PlayStation 2.

"The Xbox 360 has a triple-core CPU and an ATI graphics processor CPU--to have this running it requires a lot of power," Microsoft told Famitsu.

Interestingly, the adaptor purportedly has two fans inside, too. While Microsoft has yet to give official word on the final retail adapter for the North American version, the chances are high that the stateside Xbox 360 will also have a hefty AC adapter as well.

http://gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/news/49646.shtml

Guden Oden

12-Nov-2005, 11:56

Giant AC Adapter Confirmed for Retail Xbox 360
Ok, so it is a GIANT AC adapter... So what. In this case I'm kind of like, if it can't be installed internally, better make it big and bold than small and puny. :D I'd really hate it if my adapter is smaller when I get my x360 than I was led to believe from all the internet hubub...

Besides, that gamespot article is erroneous in commenting that the x360 adapter 'easily dwarfs' (or such) the original xbox's, as the original box didn't have an external adapter.

randycat99

13-Nov-2005, 00:11

I'm kinda amazed that the original Xbox is cited at 200 W (makes me really suspect that someone is mistaking the distinction between "input" and "output" power specs when reading the power rating labels on a device). Going from 200 to 250 W in the X360 really isn't that much of a jump in power draw, imo.

Guden Oden

13-Nov-2005, 00:26

The original box is of course not anywhere near 200W power dissipation... 250-ish W for x360 however is a lot more believable, considering the cooling measures taken (dual 80mm fans on the back, lots of vent holes, internal ducting etc).

randycat99

13-Nov-2005, 00:49

Yes, I agree, and that is why I believe the "200 W" spec for Xbox doesn't add up. Now if it were really "100 W of DC power", that would seem to make sense that the prowess of X360 drawing 250 W is considerably more than the XBox.

Fox5

13-Nov-2005, 07:04

one

20-Nov-2005, 11:09

The 2 fans in the PSU are working hard apparently...

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000503068848/
Here’s how the Xbox 360 ranks in terms of noise output versus the other fan-cooled devices in the apartment.

1. Old, clunky refrigerator
2. Xbox 360
3. PlayStation 2 (fat version, not slim-line)
4. Panasonic PT-AE700U projector
5. GameCube
6. Xbox 360 power supply
7. IBM T42p (Laptop)
8. Dell Latitude C610 (Laptop)
9. iBook G4 (Laptop)

Guden Oden

20-Nov-2005, 12:20

If true, that's certainly not good news. I was hoping to retire my PS2 as my main DVD player because of the annoying racket it makes. The fan isn't all that LOUD relly, it just makes a really irritating frequency of sound when nothing else is heard.

I hope that if x360 truly is louder than PS2, that that is during gameplay conditions when CPU/GPU are gunning along at maximum speed, and that it is (substantially) quieter while playing movies...