Tokyo International Digital Conference [Archive]

mckmas8808

11-Oct-2005, 00:07

Ken will talk about the Playstation 3 at the upcomming Tokyo International Digital Conference on the 27 of october. The keynote speech will run from 10:35a-11:15a. The keynote will outline the PS3 as a whole. Hopefully this will be the event we have REALLY been waiting for as far as info goes!

The SONY * computer entertainment
Representative President and group CEO
Hisashi 夛 it is good wooden health person

Spring of 2006, the SONY * computer entertainment (the SCE) sells next generation game machine "playstation 3" (the PS3) finally. It loads the advanced tip/chip " the cell " which, was developed with the United States IBM and Toshiba jointly so far, as for becoming the platform where the entertainment which much more can enjoy the game and the movie in high fine picture quality is new it is not wrong. Also the digital television and the effect which unearths the demand for the next generation DVD are expected. " It is pleasant enormously, it is is. It keeps attacking from now on ", - -. The SONY revolutionist and Hisashi 夛 the wooden health person determination anew, digital draws scenario well to near future.

Can't wait till the 27th woohoo!! Maybe we will get our RSX info.:shock:
Link http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/digital2005/program/

One if you can translate anything else on this link please do. Thanks.

Sony has confirmed that the Playstation3 will make an appearance in some shape or form at the Akihabara Entertainment Festival later in the month, although it’s not clear whether this will be in a playable form or the customary trailers that have frequented E3 and the Tokyo Game Show.

Taking place in Tokyo between October 22nd and October 30th, Sony has in the past stated that gamers will have the chance to play PS3 games soon although this is expected to be at an event in February 2006 according to comments recently made by Sony Computer Entertainment exec Masatsuka Saeki.

I'm guessing this maybe the same thing, but I doubt it. One is called the Tokyo International Digital Conference and the other is called the Akihabara Entertainment Festival. Maybe the PS3 will be at two events this month.

*Kb-smoker I know you started this on another thread but I thought it needed to be posted here too.:wink:

Kb-Smoker

11-Oct-2005, 02:13

:razz:

I really like to know what going to be shown there. Hope for some new tech info on PS3. :???:

jvd

11-Oct-2005, 02:21

heres to playable games .

More than that really but a playable controller . I wonder what they are doing

Carl B

11-Oct-2005, 03:15

Indeed, since it's Kutaragi himself and it's the keynote, one would hope that some new technical details get disclosed.

Mmmkay

11-Oct-2005, 03:23

heres to playable games .

More than that really but a playable controller . I wonder what they are doing

I believe they are trying to establish enough of a presence on the next-gen gaming radar without detracting too much mindshare from their highly profitable upcoming holiday season for the PS2 and PSP.

jvd

11-Oct-2005, 03:29

I believe they are trying to establish enough of a presence on the next-gen gaming radar without detracting too much mindshare from their highly profitable upcoming holiday season for the PS2 and PSP.

when i said i wonder what they are doing , i meant in regards to the controler . They lost that innovation lawsuit and are not allowed by law to make the dual shock anymore . So i'm expecting the new controler will be based on something else . HOpefully its better tha nwhat they showed at e3 .

Carl B

11-Oct-2005, 03:35

Mmmkay

11-Oct-2005, 03:45

jvd

11-Oct-2005, 04:11

Has that been settled yet? I thought it was still in the appeals process at this point.i think they lost the appeal and are filing another one now , not sure though . But i don't think sony would be dumb enough to design a controller around tech that they are under lawsuit for . IF they keep loosing they will basicly be screwing themselves . Picture in 2 years or 3 years when thier apeals run out and they loose (if they loose ) they would have had the ps3 on sale for 2 years with a now illegal controller being forced to ditch the controller and screwing the customers as now as the controllers die or break users will be stuck with no dual shock controllers for ps3 games.

Ps2 games are already in that boat

jvd

11-Oct-2005, 04:12

Oh right sorry. Well the lawsuit was specifically only about the rumble technology. I dont think that would have had any influence over their PS3 controller.

Well the thing is if they change the rumble tech they may have to change games that will no longer function any longer or will require new code to get the same things to happen .

NOt to mention i believe it was a few hundred million in the law suit that they lost . If they put that rumble tech in the ps3 its going to be even worse if they loose the apeals

-NakedZ-

11-Oct-2005, 04:16

I hope that half of the keynotes won't be "we have now shipped over 95 million PS2 units world wide."

.Z

Bad_Boy

11-Oct-2005, 06:06

It would be perfect timing to announce a price and a more specific date on when the ps3 will be ariving. im guessing they wont be too specific on the date though just to keep the people who are deiciding on xbox360 or ps3 to keep an open mind. (something like "march", but not "march 23rd" for example) ...and then announce a final specific date in jan/feb.

im sure they will set some things in stone like final hardware specifications.(rsx/cell/memory/other goodies) and i hope they have a final controller design by now, if not ill be kinda worried that even nintendo has a controller design set and not the "mighty sony" ;/

playable games....i hope. maybe some hands on stuff like the sony OS menu, or the new eye toy.

i hear SOE (sony online) is having a speech in a Austin game conference this month, maybe they will finally share some info on sony's plan to debunk xbox live's online service.
http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=46658

yeah, all of the above are guesses, but i wouldnt expect sony to release minor information especially when the xbox360 launch would be only a month away.

jvd

11-Oct-2005, 06:10

Bad_Boy

11-Oct-2005, 06:13

I have a feeling though they are going to launch in japan during the summer and the usa / europe during the holiday season
unfortunately, i have the same feeling. lets hope we are wrong.

edit:
i was thinking it could be a ps2 launch all over again.
check this out..

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/073/073228p1.html
September 10, 1999 - In grand fashion today in Tokyo, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. announced its new system and a spectacular dozen games that should rock the videogame industry like never before.

im thinking it could be like this

"October 27th, 2005 - Today in Tokyo, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. announces the launch period for the Playstation 3 in Japan for March of 06, the price of the ps3, and a few launch titles details to go with."

my writing skils suck but you get the general idea.

maybe ps3 japan launch in March/April, and we here in the states and Europe gotta wait until Sept/Oct. (didnt the ps2 launch in the us on the 26th of october?)

i could be wrong. im probably being a little too optimistic, but i would love a worldwide launch :D

jvd

11-Oct-2005, 06:26

unfortunately, i have the same feeling. lets hope we are wrong.

why ? Not for nothing but the later the system launches the cheaper / more powerfull it will be . For me it doesn't matter to much as i will have the xbox 360 to play and most likely we wont get a ps3 in the house hold till it hits 300$ or under. So it be best for it to come out a bit later.

I don't think we will see it in the usa before sept though . Even if it comes out in japan in march . I've allways said a march launch date for the usa or europe would be a bad move and i still stand by that

Bad_Boy

11-Oct-2005, 06:33

why ? Not for nothing but the later the system launches the cheaper / more powerfull it will be . For me it doesn't matter to much as i will have the xbox 360 to play and most likely we wont get a ps3 in the house hold till it hits 300$ or under. So it be best for it to come out a bit later.

well thats the difference between me and you. i would love a march ps3 release, right around my bday, and the fact that im not getting a xbox360, or atleast for a long while, would make the wait easier on me. :P

i agree, sept/oct would be smarter for sony: more launch titles ready (not to mention more finalized titles that are not rushed), cheaper hardware, would be easier to meet demand, holiday support, more marketing time, etc.

i also think that the quicker they get the ps3 in the consumers hands the less the lead the xbox360 would have on sony. say the ps3 doesnt come to the us till oct of next year, consumers might be like "well i was gonna wait for the ps3, but its not coming for almost another year so i guess i can afford both"

edit:
im just saying i feel a ps2 launch all over again. (Japan: march, US: oct, EU: Nov)...but boy would i love a march worldwide release :)

we will see what happens at the end of the month, speculation puts too many un-needed ideas in my head ;)

jvd

11-Oct-2005, 06:40

well sony is in a tricky spot coming second .

Japan is japan and they will buy it regardless.

But if sony rushes to get it out in the usa for march they are going to have many rushed games . For ms thier rushed games period will be this novemeber till most likely january . They will be entering solid products where the developers have had a year on finished hardware to finish the game. Games like gow and halo 3 . Sony will of course be pushing launch titles . Not only that but march is a dead zone for the usa and europe . That whole time frame really is a poor choice. Many people are recovering from the holidays and are not spending lots of moeny and a 400$ + ps3 wont be on thier to buy list . There also wont be as much demand as parents wont be rushing out to try and find one for x mass . Just look at the psp . They shiped 1 million and it didn't sell out here in the states at that time period . Not only all these points but the fact that i don't think sony needs to launch that early in time . I think we will see a typical sony launch. Japan gets the product and its lack luster and then 6 months later the usa and europe gets the hardware and the games have had a coat of polish put on them . Not to mention that most games like metal gear solid and others will need to be translated . Ms doesn't have this problem really as they have thier japanese games targeted towards japan and then they have the usa / europe gmaes

Bad_Boy

11-Oct-2005, 06:46

well sony is in a tricky spot coming second .

I agree, tricky indeed. It will be pretty interesting the day they unveil their true plans. ;)

threepac3

11-Oct-2005, 08:52

It would be perfect timing to announce a price and a more specific date on when the ps3 will be ariving. im guessing they wont be too specific on the date though just to keep the people who are deiciding on xbox360 or ps3 to keep an open mind. (something like "march", but not "march 23rd" for example) ...and then announce a final specific date in jan/feb.

I think it would be disastrous to release the price point and date at this time. This action would almost guarantee x360 dropping its price by the time PS3 comes out. MS released x360’s price point and dates only ~4 months before the x360 was to be launched, Sony should at least follow that example.

Now there is plenty of stuff Sony has still to unveil like: prototype/beta/final level playable games, the RSX, Online Strategy/Features, final controller, final console design, final input/output layout etc.

Urian

11-Oct-2005, 09:27

If you see the number of transistors in Xbox360 and PS3 you can see that an hypotethical PS3 without BD-ROM reader and with DVD-ROM reader could cost the same of an Xbox360 but it exist a few point that could make the PS3 more expansive than the 360:

1. The BD-ROM. I cannot believe that the BD-ROM will have a cost to manufacturate more greater or equal to 99$ and perhaps the price of the consola with the BD-ROM and with Sony losing few money will be the same of Xbox360 Premium Pack.

2. The will of wanting money from the console from the day 1 or waiting to have a good population of users is important. Microsoft is going to lose 75$ for every Xbox360 that will be sold and this is important because we don´t know if Sony wants direct money from PS3 since the day 1 or not.

3. Research and Development. Sony has put more money in research, development and new fabs than Microsoft and this will be marked in the final price.

From my point of view I expect a PS3 50$ more expansive than the Xbox360 Premium Pack.

Shifty Geezer

11-Oct-2005, 10:50

when i said i wonder what they are doing , i meant in regards to the controler . They lost that innovation lawsuit and are not allowed by law to make the dual shock anymore . So i'm expecting the new controler will be based on something else . HOpefully its better tha nwhat they showed at e3 .The lawsuit was about a specific implementation of rumble, and I think certain patterns of rumble. Only a selection of DualShock games infringed the patent. Sony could release a DS controller with a different rumble tech without problem (unless they don't do their homework and infringe someone else's patents!). The actuall design and layout of DS isn't a problem and it wasn't for any legal reasons Sony designed the Batarang.

Mefisutoferesu

11-Oct-2005, 11:01

The patten violation was a joke. The patten read something like "any device that use rotational imbalance for entertainment." Obviously, I've heavily simplified it, but you can get the idea. The patten was A) obvious and B) Too general. It's ajoke and just another example of the problems with the USPTO. ... ... Sorry, for the rant. In the end, Sony simply can use that kind of vibration for it's DS3, they can feed it information and react the same way as with the DS and DS2, but they simply can't implement the same system. How else they're going to implement it is beyond me, but unless they win...

Black Dragon37

11-Oct-2005, 11:27

threepac3

11-Oct-2005, 11:30

london-boy

11-Oct-2005, 11:39

Here's hoping for the details of RSX and online. :)

And one of the Blu-ray supprters has found out a way to reduce Blu-ray costs to the point of being the same cost as DVD. So that reduces the price of the PS3 very quickly.

"One of the Bluray supporters who found a way to lower the cost" is Panasonic. You know, The Panasonic. Anyway, they only made it possible for discs to be manufactured more cheaply, the cost of the drive is still the same. It will get lower, but it's still more expensive than a DVD drive. Therefore the cost of PS3 itself hasn't been changed by Panasonic's advance in manufacturability.

mckmas8808

11-Oct-2005, 15:45

I just want the hear or see three things.

1. The final controller

2. The final Online plans

3. 100% all RSX information

That would make me a :grin: boy.

threepac3

11-Oct-2005, 16:05

I just want the hear or see three things.

1. The final controller

2. The final Online plans

3. 100% all RSX information

That would make me a :grin: boy.

Plus the final layout of the input/output ports and there features.

Guden Oden

11-Oct-2005, 19:04

The patten violation was a joke. The patten read something like "any device that use rotational imbalance for entertainment." Obviously, I've heavily simplified it, but you can get the idea. The patten was A) obvious and B) Too general.
There ought to be PLENTY of prior art to topple that bullshit patent, as many MANY women, and even some men, have used rotational imbalance to entertain themselves for decades now... :twisted:

That idiot patent ought to be tarred and feathered and then set on fire and tossed into a septic tank.

Powderkeg

11-Oct-2005, 22:24

well bad boy if they announce a march date i hope they have some playable games on the floor .If it is only a japanese launch they have roughly 6 months of time before that launch .

I have a feeling though they are going to launch in japan during the summer and the usa / europe during the holiday season

I think that's a safe bet. Sony had supply problems for he PS2 and PSP launches, despite them launching those products at different times in different territories, I can't imagine them being able to produce enough for a world-wide launch at the same time.

Xenus

11-Oct-2005, 23:02

Oh it looks like they've been refining cell again. The FPU unit went to 1:2 from 1:10 - 1:14 on DP performace seems they are replacing the present FPU with a full DP unit..

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/forums/dw_thread.jsp?forum=739&thread=97123&cat=46

Oh Thanks to phymon of psinext for pointing this out.

Carl B

11-Oct-2005, 23:07

That's a serious change alright - almost *too* serious to have come up in such a casual light, if true. It would more or less make Cell a DP leader, where it was already competetive on a chip per chip basis.

Of course beyond this, the question would be is this an IBM spinoff Cell version, or is this the Cell that would be going into PS3 and future PS3 dev kits?

EDIT: The linked quote itself implies that they're making 'progress,' so this version of the chip might not be ready to go into production yet anyway.

mckmas8808

11-Oct-2005, 23:52

The good news: CELL software and libs. are ready to be
released at the end of this month.

Yep and what happens at the end of this month? Maybe Ken can introduce this at the show.

Shifty Geezer

12-Oct-2005, 00:02

The tenor of the talk was that the design of CELL was
mainly driven by Sony and now IBM tries to get the
best out of it (beside games).

There are already some modification going on within
CELL. There is some progress in replacing the entire
FPU inside the SPU with a full-blown DP (double
precision) unit.Sounds to me like the structure of Cell was Sony driven, and now IBM is working on that structure for other uses. There's no need for DP in games and it'd still be slower, so there's no real need for this new Cell if it exists to feature in PS3. Still it make a fantastic machine if DP could be half SP performance :grin:

MechanizedDeath

12-Oct-2005, 05:40

It's as much a PSP event as anything. I assume/hope it's a way to get the Japanese enthusiastic about GTA, b/c it's really the one big PSP release this year. That said, I expec PS3 vids, again, and more keynote speeches. I expect KK to announce that the PS2 has passted 96M or whatever, which is still some 30M units or more past where the PS1 was at this point. And I expect this to be the announcement of the new/final price drop in Japan to $99. This will follow in the US, well-timed ahead of the 360 launch. I also hope/expect a drop in retail game prices to $40 as standard. That would be a clincher to seperate the PS2 library from the 360 library. Then again, it's optimism on my part. I don't expect or see a reason for playable PS3 stuff at this point. It really serves no purpose. I would like confirmation of a global launch. That has slipped under the radar recently, which suggests to me that the Japanese launch is still in Spring, but the US launch has slipped to mid-late summer. PEACE.

EDIT: Peter H. on Cell and graphics, "Thus far you've seen only anecdotal evidence of performance (though all the fundamental information to do your own calculations is out there ...). One conference you may want to keep your eyes open for is a series of 8 papers on Cell at GSPx (signal processing) in Santa Clara Oct 24-27."

Something to keep an eye on for the end of the month...at least for a slow news day. ;)

Bad_Boy

12-Oct-2005, 10:48

EDIT: Peter H. on Cell and graphics, "Thus far you've seen only anecdotal evidence of performance (though all the fundamental information to do your own calculations is out there ...). One conference you may want to keep your eyes open for is a series of 8 papers on Cell at GSPx (signal processing) in Santa Clara Oct 24-27."

Something to keep an eye on for the end of the month...at least for a slow news day. ;)

interesting, so we have ....

GSPx (oct 24-27)
http://www.gspx.com/GSPX/2005/2005-index.php

Austin Game conference (oct 27-28)
http://www.gameconference.com/conference/glance.html

Tokyo International Digital Conference (oct 22-30)
http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/digital2005/program/

all three with potential great ps3 info/news :D

mckmas8808

12-Oct-2005, 14:01

Sony flooding the market with news in 2 weeks can't wait. I wonder what the news on CELL will be?

Vince

12-Oct-2005, 20:33

All three with potential great ps3 info/news

As Dr. Hofstee alluded to, the GSPx presentation is on benchmarking the real-world preformance/processing throughput of CMP|SMT ICs. I think it could be interesting.

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 02:23

A few PS3 game rumors floating around the net (PS3 Tokyo Conference).

1. A new EA PS3 exclusive “James Bond 007: Casino Royal” game will be shown at this years Tokyo International Digital Conference later next week.
2. RockStar Games will be showing (footage) of its latest PS3 games in development. 3. EA/Crytek will also be showing-off some PS3 wares.

I saw this on the web so I thought I would let you guys know. Of course take with a grain of salt. Would be nice if it was true though.

one

15-Oct-2005, 10:10

1. A new EA PS3 exclusive “James Bond 007: Casino Royal” game will be shown at this years Tokyo International Digital Conference later next week.
- EA + exclusive? Hmm...
- As the conference is for digital consumer electronics industry managers and investors, it's less likely that the keynote speech has any game-related details, while we may see future plans for Cell and other infrastructure.

EpicZero

15-Oct-2005, 13:00

- EA + exclusive? Hmm...
It's possible, maybe Sony is cutting a deal with EA to further guarantee that they will continue to receive the license, even after their deal with MGM is done. But I don't think that there would be anything about games at the conference though.

mckmas8808

15-Oct-2005, 21:35

It's possible, maybe Sony is cutting a deal with EA to further guarantee that they will continue to receive the license, even after their deal with MGM is done. But I don't think that there would be anything about games at the conference though.

And Sony were talking about starting to keep their movie franchises on Sony only videogames machines so...

But I still don't think it will happen. I have to see it first.

Bad_Boy

21-Oct-2005, 01:38

http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/digital2005/program/
the first keynote speech about ps3 is at 10:35am japan time till 11:15am...so expect some ps3 news tommorrow night eastern time around 9:35pm-10:15pm (i think thats right, please correct me if im wrong)

EpicZero

21-Oct-2005, 03:10

I thought it was on the 27th

Kb-Smoker

21-Oct-2005, 03:35

I thought it was on the 27th
No you are thinking about the Austin Game conference (oct 27-28). This one starts the 22nd. I can't wait to see what come out of this. :grin:

Carl B

21-Oct-2005, 03:38

No he's thinking about Kutaragi's keynote address; same event as the one that begins the 22nd, but with that certain speech on the 27th.

Bad_Boy

21-Oct-2005, 04:10

oh ok, im 5 days too early on those timings then lol.

Titanio

26-Oct-2005, 18:04

Could anyone be good enough to translate the title and description for Kutaragi's speech? All I know is what Google tells me (not very well..), and that the title has "PS3" in it :p

http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/digital2005/program/

HappyBread

26-Oct-2005, 19:53

- EA + exclusive? Hmm...

Isn't FIFA: Road to World Cup 06 an Xbox 360 exclusive? So EA are open to money hats, if need be. :lol:

Carl B

27-Oct-2005, 19:51

Ok for real - didn't Kutaragi have a keynote... or something? Something we should be hearing about? ;)

Xenus

27-Oct-2005, 19:55

Yeah Ign talked breifly about it aparently the word or the generation is reality synthesis and a bet you can guess how the RSX was named.

valioso

27-Oct-2005, 19:59

Isn't FIFA: Road to World Cup 06 an Xbox 360 exclusive? So EA are open to money hats, if need be. :lol:

is a exclusive because ps3 is not out yet.

Shifty Geezer

27-Oct-2005, 20:19

Hmmm. Watching that vid I only get disappointed at launches and hope for games to spin on a year! NBA looked quite realistic but the animation was painfully current-gen. Fifa looked just like current Fifa, except in the closeups which were lot more detailed in the animations. Neither would sell the console to me, and neither represents anything like what next-gen is about (I hope! God forbid it's just this gen with better graphics!)

mckmas8808

27-Oct-2005, 22:22

(I hope! God forbid it's just this gen with better graphics!)

You and me both brother:grin:. I prey everyday that it's this gen with better graphics too. With Havok announcing 3.2 built in too most PS3's and also being a great solution for SM3.0 GPUs I think physics and animation will be the next big thing next-gen. Graphics will be great but physics and animation will take the crown.

scooby_dooby

28-Oct-2005, 23:27

So the 27th has come and gone, I guess there was no new info?

ERP

28-Oct-2005, 23:39

You and me both brother:grin:. I prey everyday that it's this gen with better graphics too. With Havok announcing 3.2 built in too most PS3's and also being a great solution for SM3.0 GPUs I think physics and animation will be the next big thing next-gen. Graphics will be great but physics and animation will take the crown.

Devs still have to buy it if they use it. Havok isn't giving it away.....

one

29-Oct-2005, 01:30

Since the other thread (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25054) was locked in a couple of hours with a premature end...

First of all, this gamespot article (http://www.gamespot.com/6136786) is utter bullshit. The NikkeiBP article (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/) clearly says it's about playing movies/video at 120fps. You can understand it by looking at the pic below for HD World roadmap. I don't know if Gamespot deliberately put it as "120fps games" or not for sensationalist value, but if they claim to be 'gaming media' it's an inexcusable error.

http://arena.nikkeibp.co.jp/expo/news/20051028/114052/
http://japan.cnet.com/news/tech/story/0,2000047674,20089790,00.htm
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20051028/110212/?ST=english
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/

The summary of the above articles:
+ Kutaragi showed PS3 game demos (3 movies including F1 and Getaway: the Future Vision), which he describes as 'shocking reality, rather than thrilling', in the HDCAM SR format on a 4K x 2K capable Sony 4K SXRD. One of the PS3 keywords is Reality Synthesis, which creates realtime worlds in realtime.

+ Cell processor offers wide dynamic-range video-signal reproduction, noise-free, high framerate, full-HD multistreaming. As one of possibilitis for future technologies, he mentioned video-playing framerate. In contrast to 50-60 fields/sec for today's TV and 72-90 frames/sec, he wants PS3 to output higher-framerate movies such as 120 fps with future video interface standards. Also, video input by a fast camera with a high framerate can be used for new types of games and broadcast/communication.

+ Usage models for HD displays includes playing a golf videogame along with a real golf game, looking at newspapers at full size, playing multiple HDTV streams simultaneously with filtering such as rotate/resize applied, video chat, quick zapping for different kinds of rich contents, and so on. A home server with multiple Cell processors will download rich contents on internet, transcode, do upconversion, process metadata, then PS3 plays it.

+ Using huge remote computing resources such as a movie production environment for online games - for example login to Sony Pictures Entertainment servers may translate into an online game.

+ A 2.5GHｚ * 8 * 16 Cell rack reaches 25.6 TFLOPS. Putting 40 of these in a room can make a 1 PFLOPS server. SCE can use it for a network game but can be applied to other industries to incubate new usage models.

+ Using EyeToy for pattern recoginition systems, like lip reading in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

HD World roadmap
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/1027sce_hd_roadmap.jpg
GUI convergence
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/1027sce_gui.jpg
Cell roadmap
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/1027sce_cell_roadmap.jpg

Xenus

29-Oct-2005, 01:35

mmm. 4k x 2k @ 240fps.

Nesh

29-Oct-2005, 01:44

BlueTsunami

29-Oct-2005, 01:48

Mini Cell

:shock:

Looking at the timeline, after 45nm there planning on making CELL as a multicore. Sounds interesting. Also, the 120fps seems to have blatantly been turned into something it wasn't or a really bad mistake by gamespot..

AlStrong

29-Oct-2005, 02:18

What studios exactly will even bother with jumping to 120fps or beyond for their source material within the next 5 years?

BlueTsunami

29-Oct-2005, 02:21

What studios exactly will even bother with jumping to 120fps or beyond for their source material within the next 5 years?

Probably none :lol:. Its good that the technology is there I guess. I would like to see a move at that many frames per second. Would probably make me nautious seeing it on a bigscreen though.

avaya

29-Oct-2005, 02:23

What studios exactly will even bother with jumping to 120fps or beyond for their source material within the next 5 years?

Sony Pictures for one ;)

Carl B

29-Oct-2005, 02:40

One, you rule. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/thumb.gif

drpepper

29-Oct-2005, 03:34

Micro Cell = Supercomputer calculators!

Dural

29-Oct-2005, 03:37

Sony Pictures for one ;)

Not likely, the costs of filming an entire movie at that framerate would be insane.

randycat99

29-Oct-2005, 03:57

Bad_Boy

29-Oct-2005, 04:28

Props to one, that makes perfect sense now.

silhouette

29-Oct-2005, 05:40

Sony is just trying to create a non-existent market for their own technologies.. The 720p/1080i are not "HD-Ready".. They are the HD themselves.. We need new media such as hd-dvd/blu-ray because the industry adopt new media broadcasting standards that includes resolutions that is beyond what DVD is offering. But, I do not see a similar transition for higher resolutions/frame-rates in foreseeable future.

However, 1080p can be understandable. Probably in a couple of years, it will become a standard extension in same way as 480p becomes for DVDs.

But 4Kx2K screens.. That's way overkill for TV sets.

randycat99

29-Oct-2005, 06:04

It does enter the realm where TV's can genuinely fulfill computer monitor duties. :D ...now if only full chroma resolution (4:4:4) could become the video standard, we'd be all set!

XTrek

29-Oct-2005, 06:31

But 4Kx2K screens.. That's way overkill for TV sets.

Agreed, but 4k x 2k would be phenominal for viewing high resolution photgraphy. My 7.1M pixel Canon G6 produces images much larger that can be diplayed on a 1920x1080 screen without scaling. There is a company starting to produce a quad resolution displays. I saw it on digg a few weeks ago.

29-Oct-2005, 07:29

What studios exactly will even bother with jumping to 120fps or beyond for their source material within the next 5 years?

Are they moving to digital yet ? They definitely need digital to do something like that.

My other question, can PS3 output 1080p movies at 120 Hz ?

SynapticSignal

29-Oct-2005, 08:28

Dural

29-Oct-2005, 08:59

Once you move from the film media to digital storage, "new possibilities" have a way of becoming practical/feasible. I don't claim to know what may come of this, but I do suspect that CG-based projects may lead the charge for new avenues.

CG movies are exactly what would cost the huge amounts of money at that framerate. Right now it takes years for CG movies to be made at 24fps, imagine the amount of time and money it would take them if they had to render at 120fps. As for getting rid of film, I don't see that happening any time soon as there are too many directors that prefer film over doing it all digital.

Shifty Geezer

29-Oct-2005, 10:12

So 2008 and BluRay gives way to anoter format that supports 4000x2000 imagery and 240fps? Call me a cynic, but I'm a bit skeptical of this...

BlueTsunami

29-Oct-2005, 11:04

So 2008 and BluRay gives way to anoter format that supports 4000x2000 imagery and 240fps? Call me a cynic, but I'm a bit skeptical of this...

Do you think that would have to do with Movie Theaters or something? Because its taken this long for TVs to support 1080p, hell even most CRT based TVs are misleading with 720p (hard as hell to find one in the US that ISN'T LCD or Plasma). So i'm thinking that tech has to be used in another form.....or maybe new Blu-Ray players that can play at a higher res. It would be something likened to adopting a DVD player early on then progressive scan ones came out....hmmm

dubyateeeff

29-Oct-2005, 11:05

First off I cant wait till we get 60fps in cinemas.

If you see the number of transistors in Xbox360 and PS3 you can see that an hypotethical PS3 without BD-ROM reader and with DVD-ROM reader could cost the same of an Xbox360 but it exist a few point that could make the PS3 more expansive than the 360:

1. The BD-ROM. I cannot believe that the BD-ROM will have a cost to manufacturate more greater or equal to 99$ and perhaps the price of the consola with the BD-ROM and with Sony losing few money will be the same of Xbox360 Premium Pack.

2. The will of wanting money from the console from the day 1 or waiting to have a good population of users is important. Microsoft is going to lose 75$ for every Xbox360 that will be sold and this is important because we don´t know if Sony wants direct money from PS3 since the day 1 or not.

3. Research and Development. Sony has put more money in research, development and new fabs than Microsoft and this will be marked in the final price.

From my point of view I expect a PS3 50$ more expansive than the Xbox360 Premium Pack.

PS3 lacks the HDD, the BD-R&D cost is likely carried by Sonys film division or some such, not the console division. RSX is believed to be a slighly modified GeForce 7800. The only expensive thing in PS3 will be the Cell since the PS3 will have to carry its R&D cost.

I think PS3 will be priced at the same level as the X2.

Urian

29-Oct-2005, 11:41

First off I cant wait till we get 60fps in cinemas.

PS3 lacks the HDD, the BD-R&D cost is likely carried by Sonys film division or some such, not the console division. RSX is believed to be a slighly modified GeForce 7800. The only expensive thing in PS3 will be the Cell since the PS3 will have to carry its R&D cost.

I think PS3 will be priced at the same level as the X2.

When I wrote the post I didn´t know this fact.

Thanks.

Shifty Geezer

29-Oct-2005, 12:01

I was just looking at the pic, that has the BluRay icon spanning 06 to 08. Shortest lived format in history!

mboeller

29-Oct-2005, 12:32

... the BD-R&D cost is likely carried by Sonys film division or some such, not the console division.

How do you come to that conclusion?

IMHO it should be the other way around.

IMHO; If the film division really has financed the BD-R&D for the PS3 they have made a very big mistake cause no one will be able to play movies in HD with the PS3 after a few months because the new copy protection for the Blue Ray disks will make it impossible.

Why? cause the PS3 as the most common BD-player next year will be hacked, it's only a matter of time ( 3-12 months ) and then the PS3 will be on the black list of all the movie companies so every new movie will alter the BIOS of PS3s and no longer allow the playing of movies in HD.

So IMHO it would be rather stupid for the film division of Sony to finance the BD-R&D.

Manfred

bobthebub

29-Oct-2005, 12:34

I found the piccie showing "Display Convergence" interesting, is that a hint that the PS3 front end will closely resemble the PSP.

Shifty Geezer

29-Oct-2005, 13:23

That's likely, seeing as the PSP follows the X menu in other Sony devices. I think it'll be a Sony standard.

dubyateeeff

29-Oct-2005, 14:02

How do you come to that conclusion?

IMHO it should be the other way around.

IMHO; If the film division really has financed the BD-R&D for the PS3 they have made a very big mistake cause no one will be able to play movies in HD with the PS3 after a few months because the new copy protection for the Blue Ray disks will make it impossible.

Why? cause the PS3 as the most common BD-player next year will be hacked, it's only a matter of time ( 3-12 months ) and then the PS3 will be on the black list of all the movie companies so every new movie will alter the BIOS of PS3s and no longer allow the playing of movies in HD.

So IMHO it would be rather stupid for the film division of Sony to finance the BD-R&D.

Manfred

Think of it in reverse, why would the console division (SCEI) pay for a disc which is mainly meant for movies and be caught up in a movie format war?

You have an interesting point, but people would just return them for new ones. Or it wouldnt be banned as it will be the most widely sold BR-player. And that is even more off topic then we are now :)

I wrote film division, but it should probably be home entertainment or electronics division... but I dont know, perhaps they have a created a seperate division just for that? (google failed me)

I would like to add that Cell's R&D cost is also shared with Toshiba and IBM. Oh, and one more is that they will launch later. At the end of the day I think they can sell the PS3 for the same price as the X2, however I would price it higher if I where Sony, because I think they can get away with it in the beginning.

PiNkY

29-Oct-2005, 14:43

Why should a mass-produced blu-ray drive cost 100$ to manufacture (besides the Inquirer pulling that number out of its a**)? Nowadays, bulk dvd-drives sell for about 15€ and are probably half that in mfg-costs.

Edge

29-Oct-2005, 16:47

> "if the fixed resolution is 1080p it would take 2 times more time to make a game" ~ A B3D user that I will not expose..."

And yet I can play the same PC game at 640x480 and 1600x1200, and the development costs remained the same! :D

Titanio

29-Oct-2005, 17:31

I found the piccie showing "Display Convergence" interesting, is that a hint that the PS3 front end will closely resemble the PSP.

Yeah, that was the most interesting part for me. Anyone want to guess what the icons are?

It could be pretty cool if your background was just all the different stuff you could switch between (internet, game, movie, ip camera, photos etc. etc.).

typoEDR

29-Oct-2005, 17:52

Yeah, that was the most interesting part for me. Anyone want to guess what the icons are?

My guess (from left to right):

Home, Tools/Setup, Photos, Music, Movies, (Downloads?), Game, Internet Browser, Parental Controls/Setup, Friends/Community, Cell Phone(?)

Carl B

29-Oct-2005, 18:14

I was thinking cell phone as well for the last one, my theory being that perhaps it's a bluetooth sync for enabled handsets.

bobthebub

29-Oct-2005, 18:19

My guess (from left to right):

Home, Tools/Setup, Photos, Music, Movies, (Downloads?), Game, Internet Browser, Parental Controls/Setup, Friends/Community, Cell Phone(?)

Pretty much agree with you but I can't see parental controls being at the top level, perhaps that's video calls or similar.

I was thinking that the downloads Icon may be broadcast TV, or for connection to the cell media centre box that KK mentioned a couple of times.

silhouette

29-Oct-2005, 19:37

Agreed, but 4k x 2k would be phenominal for viewing high resolution photgraphy. My 7.1M pixel Canon G6 produces images much larger that can be diplayed on a 1920x1080 screen without scaling. There is a company starting to produce a quad resolution displays. I saw it on digg a few weeks ago.

The problem is when you look at your TV from a typical viewing distance, your eye will not see a difference between a 2kx1k screen and a 4kx2k screen when they have the same diagonal size. So, scaling of your picture for a 2kx1k screen will not be seem different than a non-scaled one on a 4kx2k screen. You can make the same analogy for photo printing. On a 4x6 paper, a 7.1M pixel camera will not provide a superion quality to a 3 Mpixel camera (given that all other parameters on the camera are the same).. but if you print a poster, than you will see the difference. So 4kx2k -may- make a difference for a movie theater (this is still debatable by the way), but for a TV set, I still think that it is overkill.

fireshot

29-Oct-2005, 19:51

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/1027sce_gui.jpg

tell me so this multi windows gui will not takeaway resources from ps3..?

Titanio

29-Oct-2005, 19:56

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/1027sce_gui.jpg

tell me so this multi windows gui will not takeaway resources from ps3..?

Presumably the multi-window functionality would only be needed on the dashboard, so to speak. BUT, if you can "activate" any of those windows, and for example, play a game in just its part of the screen without going widescreen, then obivously it'd be requiring resources alongside the game. It's a topic of much debate, how much resources the OS will take in next-gen systems. Reservation of some resources is to be expected.

randycat99

29-Oct-2005, 20:36

CG movies are exactly what would cost the huge amounts of money at that framerate.

Are you actually suggesting doing such a feat in film would be substantially less??? I hope not. The real meaning here is not that 120 fps will be cheap by any measure (and not even 120 is a necessity, Afaic- just "something" bigger than 24, ffs ;) ). It's just a whole lot more plausible economically and logistically once film media is removed from the workflow.

Right now it takes years for CG movies to be made at 24fps,...
...using current tools. Things are always improving and refining to streamline the workflow. The only way to get there is to simply do it so you have a live example and can target bottlenecks for the next time around.

...imagine the amount of time and money it would take them if they had to render at 120fps.

You are imagining it as if technology stood still from 2005. This won't work.

As for getting rid of film, I don't see that happening any time soon as there are too many directors that prefer film over doing it all digital.

It's already started (and that is just for digital 24 fps). ;) Naturally, directors aren't jumping onboard in droves, right away, but it is starting. They will do so when they have determined their particular needs can be met (which has less to do with sheer "performance" than you might expect).

Dural

29-Oct-2005, 21:33

You are imagining it as if technology stood still from 2005. This won't work.

No, I imagine precision in cg scaling with technology. Just because we had better tech for The Incredibles didn't mean it would take less time or be cheaper than Toy Story.

Shifty Geezer

30-Oct-2005, 00:22

randycat99

30-Oct-2005, 01:59

No, I imagine precision in cg scaling with technology. Just because we had better tech for The Incredibles didn't mean it would take less time or be cheaper than Toy Story.

"Precision" is quite fine, whatever that means. It is inevitable that technology will catch up such that the bottlenecks are no longer the computation, but falls again back to the actual implementation/direction of artistry.

mckmas8808

30-Oct-2005, 07:44

That screenshot with all the 'windows' is screy. It's an ugly mess of crowded info, totally counter-intuitive to actually appreciating any of it. And it's ugly. Hopefully that isn't a default unavoidable standard for clutter and the real thing is much more 'Feng Shui'.

For me personally I think if it is the PS3 GUI, then I think it's one of the best things I've seen with these next-gen systems. I love the thought of multiple screens and multiple things moving at the sametime. Since Minority Report I've been spoiled.:sad:

Now Imagine if we could pick each icon or move the frame around or even delete a frame with our hands us the Eyetoy?:shock: DAMN!

one

30-Oct-2005, 07:54

Nikkei Business does very, very brief video podcast for the conference.
http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/free/podcast/

Direct link to the movie (MP4+AAC - 20MB - use Quicktime, Quicktime Alternative, ffdshow w/ AAC-enabled, iTunes, or whatever)
http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/free/podcast/movie/images/20051028.mp4

First, the reporter and a Nikkei Business magazine staffer talk, then Toshiba's president talks about Full HD SED, then Kutaragi gives a speech, shows the Getaway movie (then ends the podcast.) Somehow he seems more relaxed in his usual dark suit than in a casual entertainment-industry outfit :razz:

mckmas8808

30-Oct-2005, 08:01

Hey thanks one for showing us what Ken Kutargi actually said. People on the internet are so damn eagered to show Ken in a stupid light that it's people like you that can calm the whole internet. Of course people will still believe that he meant 120 fps for videogames though.:sad:

mboeller

30-Oct-2005, 13:21

Think of it in reverse, why would the console division (SCEI) pay for a disc which is mainly meant for movies and be caught up in a movie format war?

Maybe they try to do an PS2 again? The PS2 sold so well in the first year because most people used it as an DVD-player. The game/PS2 ratio was around 0.8 in the first year. So maybe Sony tries to overwelm the cometition again with the "movie-playing feature".

You have an interesting point, but people would just return them for new ones.

THAT's what I fear will happen. Sony will loose millions or even billions of dollars that way. In Europe for example people can bring in a defect unit after 2 years if the defect was already built in (and the copy protection surely is). So in the end Sony will loose a lot of money an will get nothing than bad press in return.

In the end I fear that Sony will loose this generation because of the stupid copy protection for HD-movies for HD-DVDs and BD-drives.

jvd

30-Oct-2005, 13:24

Maybe they try to do an PS2 again? The PS2 sold so well in the first year because most people used it as an DVD-player. The game/PS2 ratio was around 0.8 in the first year. So maybe Sony tries to overwelm the cometition again with the "movie-playing feature".

bluray=/ dvd

Dvd was already growing rapidly when the ps2 came out . It had a few thousand titles .

Bluray isn't even standardized yet and for all we know the ps3 may launch before movie content is avalible for bluray . Not to mention that there is still hd-dvd coming out which will confuse the consumer and many may opt to wait on a ps3 to make sure they don't invest in the wrong movie platform .

It can also drive the cost up on the ps3 so that they can't price themselves against ms .

Laa-Yosh

30-Oct-2005, 13:29

...using current tools. Things are always improving and refining to streamline the workflow. The only way to get there is to simply do it so you have a live example and can target bottlenecks for the next time around.

Both movie VFX and CG animated features have one thing in common - rendering times for a single frame have remained constant in the past decade. The advances in technology have been used to increase complexity, and this trend will continue for at least another 5-10 years, or maybe even more... Also keep in mind that processing technology has hit a wall in the recent years, and we just don't get a 2x speed increase every 18 months anymore.

Laa-Yosh

30-Oct-2005, 13:33

Regarding resolutions... At this time, most movie VFX and CG features use 2048*1536 pixels, and IMAX is at 4K. The 1920*1080 HD format has caught up with that, and I don't think that movies will increase the resolution in the foreseeable future.
Maybe as theatre projection advances to digital and we start to see sharper images, the pixels will also get more noticeable and thus there will be a need to increase the detail... But I have my doubts. Going for 4K res and 120fps within 5 years is totally overkill IMHO.

Shifty Geezer

30-Oct-2005, 14:43

Titanio

30-Oct-2005, 14:50

The question is, could a jump happen, rather than a general progression? Is the digital projection technology in existence to support these improvements, and is the storage capacity there to film and edit such films? 4x the framerate, 4x the resolution, would need 16x the storage. That'd be how many GB a second? And that'd need to be at best on very low compression during filming and processing. Ideally it should remain uncompressed thoroughout production until final copy.

Digital Cinemas are coming, although I don't know how long it'll take. Here in Ireland, all cinemas are supposed to go digital in the next year or so. I know there are a few in the states.

I don't have technical specifics with regards to things like resolution though. I'm sure it could be looked up.

blakjedi

30-Oct-2005, 14:54

The US is slowly but surely going digital. Most multiplex cinemas have at least one all digital theater. Between lucas films, imax and Disney Digital 3d, there are quite afew production houses sponsoring all digital films as well.

Chicken Little is new to theaters and will be disneys first all digital feature film.

Shifty Geezer

30-Oct-2005, 15:04

Digital Cinemas are coming, although I don't know how long it'll take. Here in Ireland, all cinemas are supposed to go digital in the next year or so. I know there are a few in the states.AFAIK it was Lucas who pushed for digital and Sony provided a solution. Maybe KK has insight to the developments of Sony's upcoming film technologes? :D

NavNucST3

30-Oct-2005, 15:10

AFAIK it was Lucas who pushed for digital and Sony provided a solution. Maybe KK has insight to the developments of Sony's upcoming film technologes? :D

What was Sony's solution? AFAIK the digital theaters here in the states are all DLP, which would be TI, I didn't think Sony had anything to do with DLP.

silhouette

30-Oct-2005, 15:24

That's true.. All current digital movie theaters are DLP today. Sony is trying to get into this business with their 4kx2k SXRD technology, and TI is trying to convince people that 2kx1k tech is enough even for movie theaters and that most important thing is contrast (Btw, do not compare DLP TV's to DLP cinemas.. DLP TV's use one chip, while DLP cinema's use three chip solutions).

Also, there is already a model for digital movie distibution. So, many problems associated with digital cinema has already been solved. The switch to digital cinema has not happened, because the initial cost for switching to digital in movie theaters are enourmous. Therefore, no theater compony has seen the clear reason to switch yet.. So, all we still have a handful of demo theaters, and I do not expect this will change in the next 5 years.

Carl B

30-Oct-2005, 15:28

I don't know about Lucas' role in it all, but here're two articles with information on Sony's digital projector push; indeed TI is set up as the main rival in the second one.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4864

http://www.advancedimagingpro.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=69&id=682

Sony's going the 4k route in opposition to TI's 2k route.

EDIT: Silhouette beat me to it! But, here are the links anyway for those that want to read up. :)

Shifty Geezer

30-Oct-2005, 15:50

What was Sony's solution? AFAIK the digital theaters here in the states are all DLP, which would be TI, I didn't think Sony had anything to do with DLP.I was thinking in the cpature and editing market. Sony provided the digital cameras for Lucas AFAIK. Don't know about the digital projection market.

I'll add that in respect to this 120fps, 4000x2000 'nonsense', it's a pie-in-the-sky possibility Sony have the capture technology for this (cameras and storage) hence KK's comments that this'll become a possibility. I tend to find KK expects things to advance much quicker than they do they, by about a factor of 10 years

randycat99

30-Oct-2005, 20:31

What was Sony's solution? AFAIK the digital theaters here in the states are all DLP, which would be TI, I didn't think Sony had anything to do with DLP.

More precisely, I think Sony was more involved with making the actual camera equipment possible, rather than the projection equipment. It's just the other end of the process, but still a significant event.

randycat99

30-Oct-2005, 20:47

I saw Serenity at the cinema yesterday. I'm not a big movie goer, maybe visiting the cinema 2 or 3 times a year. It really stood out for me how rubbish the cinema is. A flickery display, not at all sharp, diabolical black levels and with the motion artefacts of a low frame rate.

I don't know if it is still possible, but if you can, you might be interested to check see that last Star Wars movie in an official DLP theater. I was quite impressed with the experience (and there is no comparison you can draw between this and what people get in a consumer "DLP" HDTV, imo). I'm completely alone on this, but it almost seems Lucas did something here that really takes the edge off that "24 fps" motion stutter. That's why I have a lot of interest in what this shift in technology can do for the movie industry. If I were to utter a word w/o being shouted down with calls of blasphemy, I would say this was 30 fps material. There will be plenty to say that this is simple not possible on the count of official documentations, but I highly suspect that there is a little more going on here than what is "officially documented". ;)

Please do note that I only tell you this as a measure of hope for the future. Otherwise, I completely agree with your souring take on the state of film movie presentation. It really is in serious need of revamping.

jvd

30-Oct-2005, 22:20

IN the states everything takes a long time because of the size of the country .

Here in jersey we have 3 all digital thearters . Clifton commons has 16 digital screens now . We have the palacides mall that has 3 digital screens and 1 imax screen and then we have the new brunswick thearters that are almost all digital . last time i went they only had 4 non digital screens .

The problem is we have the loews that were built 10+ years ago and are falling apart. However now that amc has bought loews i expect them to start upgrading the old thearters to stadium seating and all digital

Shifty Geezer

30-Oct-2005, 22:33

IN the states everything takes a long time because of the size of the countryIn the UK everything takes a long time because of the ineptitude of the Administration. In the EU everything takes a long time because of the excesses of Beurocracy. :mrgreen:

jvd

30-Oct-2005, 22:46

In the UK everything takes a long time because of the ineptitude of the Administration. In the EU everything takes a long time because of the excesses of Beurocracy. :mrgreen:

the usa is still the largest user of checks .

Most european countrys and japan have already abandond checks , but we wont be done with them till 2015 at the earliest .

We take the short yellow bus to school

Shifty Geezer

30-Oct-2005, 23:10

As refreshingly different from 'my console is better than your console' an argument on 'my country is more backward than your country' would be, we're already way off topic :D

dubyateeeff

30-Oct-2005, 23:34

The bigger the display is, the further back we must sit to be able to take in the whole picture that when we move back the pixels will look smaller to our eyes, so much so that we wont notice individual pixels if the resolution is high enough. I think that resolution is just above 1080.

But what is the optimal framerate?

NavNucST3

31-Oct-2005, 07:56

More precisely, I think Sony was more involved with making the actual camera equipment possible, rather than the projection equipment. It's just the other end of the process, but still a significant event.

For anyone that cares (http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/sw24p.html): "Using a prototype digital acquisition system consisting of a Panavision modified Sony HDW-F900 integrated camera recorder, a series of carefully prescribed tests were initiated by teams from ILM and Lucasfilm working in conjunction with Sony and Panavision. These tests, which include image performance and system functionality culminated in comparative shoots with motion picture film, convinced George Lucas and producer, Rick McCallum of the benefits of shooting in digital 24P at 1920 x 1080 HD sampling."

We really should start a new thread...

mckmas8808

31-Oct-2005, 15:48

For anyone that cares (http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/sw24p.html): "Using a prototype digital acquisition system consisting of a Panavision modified Sony HDW-F900 integrated camera recorder, a series of carefully prescribed tests were initiated by teams from ILM and Lucasfilm working in conjunction with Sony and Panavision. These tests, which include image performance and system functionality culminated in comparative shoots with motion picture film, convinced George Lucas and producer, Rick McCallum of the benefits of shooting in digital 24P at 1920 x 1080 HD sampling."

We really should start a new thread...

Wow so maybe Ken K. is on to something.