View Full Version : New Xbox Live prices: $59.99 and $69.99
_leech_
30-Aug-2005, 19:18
http://www.planetxbox360.com/?view=article&article=116
The current annual price is $49.99 USD, correct?
i rather buy my "next" gen pc and pay just once for the game and play for free the 2,3,x years around worldwide free servers without fees, oh and at the end of the year i saved 50 bucks to buy myself or pay something else i really need.
P2P day,week,montly,year fees? I refuse, thankyou.
scooby_dooby
30-Aug-2005, 19:30
$5 a month isn't bad at all. Especially with MS saying you won't have to pay extra for MMO's (this is the word for now, but we've all seen how quickly things can change)
I also really like the $8/month card, between that and the free 3-month trials included with games(like last gen hopefully), you should be able to keep a Live Gold account going year round for next to nothing.
Confidence-Man
30-Aug-2005, 19:33
That's pretty bad, honestly.
You could sort of justify the current $50 fee because of all the services, but now that they'll be giving most of that to everyone free you'll basically be paying more for less.
1 Month Gold Card
- 1 month XBL subscription
Price: US$7.99
The 1 month card, that you could buy from your retail store is an excellent idea.
Same thing with all the other prepaid cards.
I pay $45 a month to play a single MMO on the PC, so you can just suck it up if you think that $60 a year is too much.
(If you're wondering: 3 DAoC accounts @ $15 a month.)
How cheap can you get? It is like buying A GAME every year, 60 dollars for 12 months.. come on!
I don´t mind, I get a great service, with minimum of cheaters etc, great functions, same gamertag on every game.. you get what you pay for..
Guden Oden
30-Aug-2005, 20:00
Problem is, I don't really know what I'll be paying for that I can't get for free on the PC.
XBL mostly feels like a moneyscam to me, ripping people off for cash simply because they CAN; the box is a closed system so they set the rules. It may make things a bit easier for the player, but I already have messenger for voice chatting in games, every game comes with a server browser function built in, and most of the other stuff that XBL offers either isn't anything I'm interested in (matchmaking) or is offered for free in PC titles (rankings), shit like that.
It'll be surprising if all the MMO's are really included for free in that. I for one don't think that can hold, but maybe MS will surprise on that front.
I doubt that MMORPG's will all be free. I can think of one off the top of my head that may have a $5 a month price all to itself.
Regardless, Xbox Live is a great service and has a lot of value packed in. I do hope those with HDD's get downloadable content for a reasonable price or for free.
It'll be surprising if all the MMO's are really included for free in that. I for one don't think that can hold, but maybe MS will surprise on that front.
MMOs require only a silver Xbox Live account (Which is free).
i don't get the big deal... when you break it down into a monthly rate it's pretty cheap as far as things go... most of the playing i do is on live with my mates so i'll definately be getting it again
scooby_dooby
30-Aug-2005, 20:14
WHen you actually factor in the hours oif gameplay you get out of it, I'm sure that the $5 is a great deal.
If a typical game gives me about 20-30 hours of gameply for $60, that's $2 or $3 an hour. If online can extend that to even an additional 10 hours of gameplay in a month, for just $5, that's only 50cents / hour, not too shabby!
Heck, if you can get even 5 hours of extra gameplay out of a game with online, for the extra $5 to $8 /month, its a much better deal that the $60 you pay originally to purchase the game.
I believe it is a very good deal. Most console gamers are not as technical as we are so a lot of the PC gaming is out of the question for them. Also, the console market is currently larger than the PC market and has been that way for quite some time now. With the Xbox 360 a lot of casual gamers will be able to get into it in a big way. With about 90% of games out there, just my guess, not needing any additional fees to be played online it is a very good deal. Casual gamers can come home from work or school, or sit in their dorms if they are in college and just pick up and play. Of course broadband is required, but that is reaching more and more homes each month. Xbox Live gives gamers a great package with plenty of features for a small cost.
Problem is you don't know what you get for that price. If reality turns out to be a lagg festival including 14 year old boys talking/acting the way they do..yeah then it's expensive. I personally have no experience with the online console world so I don't know.
I also wonder if you also have to pay extra for downloading game content. (if you get the 360 with HD that is..)
MMOs require only a silver Xbox Live account (Which is free).
Vysez what do you mean 'free?'
I'm saying that the MMO's will have their own fees on top of Live's; we're all in agreement here am I right?
What I was originally replying to was this:
$5 a month isn't bad at all. Especially with MS saying you won't have to pay extra for MMO's (this is the word for now, but we've all seen how quickly things can change)
Sooo... MMO = $xx/month + Live (which can be free)
But ~$60/70 for Live does NOT negate the additional MMO charge. Or at least, that's how it's traditionally played out, and how I believe it will continue to.
Inane_Dork
30-Aug-2005, 20:41
It seems to expensive to me, but that's just a personal feeling. I'm not big on online gaming, so that might explain it. I'm 100x more interested in DLC and demos than I am in online gaming.
Acert93
30-Aug-2005, 20:49
12 Month Premium Gold Pack
- 12 month XBL subscription
- A communicator headset
- Xbox Live arcade game: "Billiards"
- $20 discount on a games purchase
- 200 points in the XBL marketplace
Price: US$69.99
Basically $50. Why? You will have to buy a game to really use the system, so that $20 discount comes in handy IMMEDIATELY :D
200 marketplace points, a free mini game, and a headset (I knew those things had to be cheap!!!) and a year of Gold... niiiice.
This is the news I was waiting to hear... I am an online gaming junky, and this is music to my ears.
Problem is, I don't really know what I'll be paying for that I can't get for free on the PC.
XBL mostly feels like a moneyscam to me, ripping people off for cash simply because they CAN; the box is a closed system so they set the rules.
You get a unified interface and feature set across the board in every Xbox Live game.
Having played PC games online since Quake up through today I can say this: The PC is a HEADACHE online. Yeah, some games have good interfaces, must most don't. e.g. BF2 shipped with a REALLY POOR server browser... and it is an ONLINE GAME. :shock: Further it did not even have a favorites list or other really basic features! And most online games do not have audio chat in game.
I don't like the "you have to pay to be online" approach in that yes, I get it free with the PC and prefer that. But on the other hand Live DOES improve the quality of the experience in many cases & for the targeted audiance (people typically less savy than PC users) having a single, unified, functional interface with robust features in EVERY game is a good move IMO.
Us PC guys may not like it... but I see the benefit to the market it provides. And at $5 a month, well, it is a good deal.
The PC is superior in many ways and can offer more features, but across the board Xbox Live games have more features and a better interface in general. There is a reason 3rd party server finders like ASE and voice chat like TeamSpeak and Ventrillo are popular--because PC developers frequently ignore and/or under develop their online tools. At its best the PC rules, but overall I have to give the nod to Xbox Live from the short experience I have with it. I have only used it a handful of times at friends' houses, but what I have seen (and read in reviews) is very good. And Xbox Live 360 looks even better.
Acert93
30-Aug-2005, 20:56
I'm saying that the MMO's will have their own fees on top of Live's; we're all in agreement here am I right?
But ~$60/70 for Live does NOT negate the additional MMO charge. Or at least, that's how it's traditionally played out, and how I believe it will continue to.
The confusion is the words you are using. There are 2 Live versions (GOLD and SILVERr) now :D We know that SILVERr accounts *can* play MMOs, although additional fees may apply (will apply is more like it!). So no GOLD account is required to play MMOs.
http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1147/Xbox-360-Software-and-Services-Features/p1
So to review: if you ONLY play MMOs, you can skip GOLD and get SILVER. If you play MMOs and other online games you have to get GOLD.
Vysez what do you mean 'free?'
I'm saying that the MMO's will have their own fees on top of Live's; we're all in agreement here am I right?
Yes, that's correct, I misread your post.
Xbox Live Gold doesn't, indeed, negate any MMO fees.
Acert
But on the other hand Live DOES improve the quality of the experience in many cases & for the targeted audiance (people typically less savy than PC users) having a single, unified, functional interface with robust features in EVERY game is a good move IMO.
that's why I like it better and will gladly pay the $5
MechanizedDeath
30-Aug-2005, 21:12
I still don't get why I can play a game like BF2 for free, yet have to pay for Live. It's been a petpeeve of mine about Seganet and Live in that as someone who only plays online with PC games, I've been weened on free gaming. I mean, from Doom it's been this way. Anyone can setup a server and you go nuts.
The interface shouldn't be a huge deal. Couldn't it be like IRC chat servers with a standardized GUI running on the client side? Selecting games and servers via hotlink portals? What sort of services are offered that would incur a large enough infrastructure cost that they need to charge for it? I mean, the marketplace is just another way to sell us stuff, so should fund itself. $50-70 a year is easily within my means, but I am almost morally-opposed to PPV services.
And before someone chimes in the predictable, "if you don't like it, don't pay for it" response, I fully understand that, and that's why I've refused to partake in any of it to date. I mean, I don't play MMO games for this specific reason. But I'm more looking for some insight from the people who do use Live, as you what sets it apart and makes it a justifiable expense. OTOH, if MMO games are guaranteed to be free, then I agree, this is a great price, and I'd definitely subscribe, b/c that would make the cost of MMO gaming extremely attractive. PEACE.
The new 360 Live will have ZONES that will allow a much more customized experience as to the type of gamer that you are apt to encounter based on those zones. Also a visible feedback system for gamer tags.
Also the fully featured chat and video functions that allow you to interact with a base of online "Friends" across all games, inviting them to join you if you are online regardless of what either of you are doing at the moment so long as the machine is on.
Also the block feature allowing you to blacklist someone with whom you have a bad experience to prevent you from being matched up with them again in future games.
these are some of the many features that I look forward to and in which I see value.
# Offline achievements * #
# Online achievements *
# Access to other players' Gamer cards via Live *
# Cumulative gamer score * #
# Location/language profile * #
# Reputation *
# Enhanced matchmaking using above
# Skill level matchmaking
# Gameplay style profile (casual, competitive, etc.)
# Recent players list *
# Custom playlist in every game *
# Communication with voice, video or text *
Geographical locations of players, self-categorized gamerzones (or playing styles), reputations, and gamer scores are all criteria that can be considered by the matchmaker in the upcoming version of Xbox Live. Having more data to work with, in theory, means you're less likely to be stuck in a match that isn't enjoyable to you. Of course, a lot of the success of the new "intelligent" matchmaker is going to depend on how large the online community is for a given game. If you're looking for a match in Halo 3, the matchmaker will probably have lots of options. But if you're an American fiending for a gritty game of Rugby 2007, you'll probably still have to settle for whoever's available. Still, it's tantalizing to know that hardcore shooter jockeys who spend hours honing their sniper rifle skills are less likely to get stuck on the same server as casual players just looking to let off a bit of steam.
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6124293/p-5.html
Nupraptor
30-Aug-2005, 21:37
I pay $45 a month to play a single MMO on the PC [...] (If you're wondering: 3 DAoC accounts @ $15 a month.)You're obviously quite insane, though, and should not be used as a barometer for the average gamer. ;)
I'm a bit spoiled, being a PC gamer: I expect that, when I buy UT2007, I'll be able to install it and play it any time I want without any hidden fees. I understand mothly fees for things like MMOs, where new content is being added constantly and such, but it just feels a bit like gouging to charge for anything else.
The online fee should be part of the game's pricetag - especially since X360 games are being hiked to $60 a pop. Could you imagine paying $60 for the console version of UT2007 (or Unreal Champsionship 3, whichever) and not being able to play it unless you paid a subscription fee on top of that?
It doesn't help that I've seen countless videos of 12 year olds swearing at their mothers over XBox Live! or spewing nonsense racial epithets. ;) $5/month isn't outrageous, but it's something I can do without, especially since I have no intention of giving up PC gaming any time soon.
seismologist
30-Aug-2005, 21:43
Yeah It's a rip off but if they weren't making money off it, there'd be no reason for them to offer a service at all.
At least they do give you some nice features in exchange for your $5 a month for those who are willing to pay.
scooby_dooby
30-Aug-2005, 21:44
Don't forget there are alternatives to XBOXLive, you CAN play for free if you use programs like XB Connect.
http://www.xbconnect.com/
XBConnect registerd 500 new accounts today alone, has nearly 800,000 user accounts and has hosted over 12 million games. As of right now it has ~5500 players online.
I think most people just play on live because it's so much easier, hassle free, and has alot of handy features.
TrungGap
30-Aug-2005, 23:46
I think most people just play on live because it's so much easier, hassle free, and has alot of handy features.
While it's awesome to have alternatives, like xbconnect and xlink kai (http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/index.php). However, it requires you to be nearby a pc. Now, if they can emulate live server, that's the real deal...even without cheat detectors and whatnot.
It's really hard to justify $50/year...but then I'm one of those cheap bastards who depends on free antivirus software to keep my computer safe.
Guden Oden
30-Aug-2005, 23:47
You get a unified interface and feature set across the board in every Xbox Live game.
I don't want to have to pay perpetually for that! I paid for the unified interface when I bought the console, there's no logical reason I should have to keep forking out more money every month for something that stays the same, not changing.
Having played PC games online since Quake up through today I can say this: The PC is a HEADACHE online.
I don't think so. All the games I've played online have had decent online interfaces, and all shooter games I've played have had favorites and such. On the original xbox, virtually all if not REALLY all games were hosted on one of the players' machines, and my guess is that's set to continue now. Why should I have to pay for playing games hosted on somebody else's system? That's nuts. Favorites, ignore lists etc, all that shit can be stored locally on a person's HDD or memory card. Doesn't need no fancy god damn live subscription.
And most online games do not have audio chat in game.
No, but why would you need that when there's countless apps that can do it for free anyway? MSNM, Yahoo, IRQ, AOL chatters (and others, including google etc) have it. You got rogerwilco, skype, a host of other tools that do chatting. Pretty much with completely negligible performance impact too I might add, I chat using MSNM with a buddy of mine using USB mic and speakers and echo cancellation with no noticeable decrease in FPS, nor any noticeable increase in ping.
But on the other hand Live DOES improve the quality of the experience in many cases & for the targeted audiance (people typically less savy than PC users)
...Which is making it a moneyscam ripoff IMO. They're preying on the less savvy making them pay for stuff that is free on more complicated platforms without MS actually really having to do any more work!
And at $5 a month, well, it is a good deal.
I already have WoW subscription and a gymcard, rent and other expenses. Add those $5, plus any other MMO subs for the 360... It's gonna add up.
Acert93
31-Aug-2005, 00:22
I still don't get why I can play a game like BF2 for free, yet have to pay for Live.
It ain't free.
Most of the servers are run by the community. We pay good money every month so pubbies can have a place to play. So that is one difference. With consoles, if they are using servers, they are adding additional costs that the PC does not have.
And hate to break this to people... no easy way... it has been reported EA is examining going toward a "pay to play" route for future BF releases. The first step in this process was solidifying features (like stats, ranks, unlocks) ALL within their server network. If you want to have those features you need to play on THEIR servers. The next step is pretty obvious :(
I think it comes down to business. EA sees WOW with 4M paying customers. 4M * $15/mo is $60M a month, $720M a year. EA is footing the cost for a hundred or so servers (the community provides thousands) and is thinking, "We would like a residual income as well!" BF2 has 1.2M sales @ $50--which part goes to retailers, shipping, advertising, etc... But for the sake of the arguement, lets say they make $60M off that. That is nothing compared to WOW's income. 1.2M customers paying $15/mo is $216M a year in profits.
Basically I see the days of free online gaming coming to end to many popular franchises. Which means I will be looking elsewhere.
So within that framework I don't mind paying $5/mo. I was paying $10/mo for BF1942 and BF2 (SOMEONE has to pay for those server slots!). So "free" is a relative term. Without us who paid for servers you would have to pay. In the case of the PC others, more hardcore gamers, are footing the bill for everyone else. With Live the cost is spread around.
The other side to that is you pay $5 for all games (less MMOs).
I mean, I don't play MMO games for this specific reason.
Me either.
But I'm more looking for some insight from the people who do use Live, as you what sets it apart and makes it a justifiable expense.
Like I said before (and Guden will disagree) is that the PC is a mess. I specifically noted BF2. No favorite lists, no buddy list, the HORRID server listing tool is slow and sucks (go read the reviews) etc. Every online game has a different interface and the fact is many stink. Not all, but far too many.
Another plus is content uniformity. Live keeps everyone on the same page--similar to Steam. That may sound minor, but a lot of online games see large defactions of players with new content/patch releases because it divides the community.
The next big perk is that you get a suite of features (like in game chat and messenging) in one standard package. Everyone knows what they are, where they are, and no game has an excuse NOT to use them. It is built right into the system. Using third party server finders, chat programs, buddy finders, etc... is *very* confusing to many gamers. I know this first hand from dealing with a lot of gamers on the PC side.
Streamlining the service to include a suite of excellent features that are supported in every game makes the experience better. I am sick and tired of people online without ingame chat for team based games, or not being able to find a good server or my friends unless they subscribe to the same services as I do.
It is a really big mess on the PC side. Yeah, those of us who hang out HERE on B3D have no issues. But we are not the mainstream audiance who is going to pick up a console either.
OTOH, if MMO games are guaranteed to be free, then I agree, this is a great price, and I'd definitely subscribe, b/c that would make the cost of MMO gaming extremely attractive. PEACE.
Unfortunately MS has already officially stated MMO additional fees may apply... which means, of course, they will have fees like their PC counterparts.
Overall I can see the hesitation to pay. I wont pay for MMOs. But $5/mo for all non-MMO games? I can deal with that if that means making the experience better (which it does). I have a fine PC online experience, but that is not shared amongst most of those I play with. It is *not* pick up and go out of the box either--which is important.
The only difference I see with Xbox Live is that instead of relying on a segment of the community (like clans) paying for servers, that burden is taken in house and paid by all customers evenly.
Because honestly no online game is free. It just happens that on the PC there is enough of us paying that others do not.
Well, the subscription fees aren't *all* profits; or rather there are high fixed costs to account for. A lot of MMO's fail to ever break even, and the field is actually littered with the carcasses of several. Granted something like WoW is obviously a total cash-cow.
scooby_dooby
31-Aug-2005, 00:36
While it's awesome to have alternatives, like xbconnect and xlink kai (http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/index.php). However, it requires you to be nearby a pc. Now, if they can emulate live server, that's the real deal...even without cheat detectors and whatnot.
It's really hard to justify $50/year...but then I'm one of those cheap bastards who depends on free antivirus software to keep my computer safe.
Could you elaborate? All I know is these systems are available, I don't know how they work, or what setup entails....
Aren't most setups near(or at least wired to) a PC simply due to the fact they need to share an internet connnection?
Since this is mainly PC users bitching that they have to pay for online play, I was simply letting these same PC guys know that with a little effort they STILL can play for free.
seismologist
31-Aug-2005, 00:52
It's definitely better to have the hardcore community subsidizing the online fees. Because as a casual gamer I know that there's no way I'm signing up for $60 a year subscription to play online. Especially when online play is currently free (for me) on the PC.
I have a hard enough time bringing myself to renew my IGN subscription and that's only $20 a year.
It's like I'm sure someone is paying for this sever at B3D which I'm grateful for but if tomorrow they turn around and tell us that we have to pay for it ourselves...call me cheap, but I'm not so sure how much longer I'd be around :D
Acert93
31-Aug-2005, 01:11
It's definitely better to have the hardcore community subsidizing the online fees. Because as a casual gamer I know that there's no way I'm signing up for $60 a year subscription to play online. Especially when online play is currently free (for me) on the PC.
And on the reverse those of us paying more than $5/mo are glad that we wont be subsidizing everyone else on the Xbox 360! :wink:
I guess the options are
1. Everyone pays (like Live)
2. Hardcore gamers pay (like many PC titles)
3. Companies pay (like PS2)
There are benefits to each, and drawbacks to each. The nice thing is there are options for each preference. If you are willing to live with the tradeoffs (and developers are as well... some hate offering it for free, others hate being told to do it the Live way, etc) then it is all good.
seismologist
31-Aug-2005, 01:20
I haven't been on live before but from what I understand there are no dedicated game servers?
So it's still a bit curious as to what exactly you're paying for.
Has this changed with Live 360?
TrungGap
31-Aug-2005, 01:34
Could you elaborate? All I know is these systems are available, I don't know how they work, or what setup entails....
Aren't most setups near(or at least wired to) a PC simply due to the fact they need to share an internet connnection?
Sure, xbconnect and xlink is pretty much a tunneling software. So, it only works with games that support system link, not Live. And as you know, system link doesn't provide you with a lot of functionality. Simply because it assumes you're connected via LAN in the same subnet. So there's no server browser or stuff like that.
The good part is because it doesn't do these sort of stuff...xbconnect/xlink developers intergated a lot of cool stuff into their softwares, to make gamers' life easier. So to use these features (chating, game management, friends list, etc), you need to access to your computer. Lot a lot of people use a laptop, because it allows them mobile.
Unfortunately, this setup isn't ideal for a lot of non-techie users. However, gamers with a little PC knowledge and hardware can make great use of setup. Imagine, being able to kick a player off, because he's acting like a jerk.
Since this is mainly PC users bitching that they have to pay for online play, I was simply letting these same PC guys know that with a little effort they STILL can play for free.
The only thing we know is all x360 games will support Live. Hopefully, future game will support system link, because without system link...it's not going work.
Don't forget there are alternatives to XBOXLive, you CAN play for free if you use programs like XB Connect.
http://www.xbconnect.com/
XBConnect registerd 500 new accounts today alone, has nearly 800,000 user accounts and has hosted over 12 million games. As of right now it has ~5500 players online.
I think most people just play on live because it's so much easier, hassle free, and has alot of handy features.
I'll quote the enitre post for both point and counterpoint to Xbox Live fees. A free service (XBconnect) is not as easy to use. The fee-based service has more bells and whistles, kind of, but primarily it's focused on plug and pay, er, play.
The idea being that you get what you pay for. One of the biggest mistakes Xbox made, I believe, is allowing EA control of their own services, since the experience is notably different on EA games (ie, it's horrible to the point of making me not want to play online games).
Anyway, long winded way of saying, "The service is fee-based because it offers a service." We'll find out soon enough if it's priced outside of what consumers are willing to pay. Personally, I'd be shocked to hear that Xbox Live actually turns a profit. Their customer add's probably eat away at any yearly fees...
.Sis
PARANOiA
31-Aug-2005, 04:11
Another top post Acert.
One thing which you haven't taken into account, though, is Xbox Live uses P2P to host servers. MS don't wear server costs other than for the "pluses" such as user messaging, friends lists, etc.
I'd rather not have these things and be able to directly connect to a friend's Xbox to play Halo3/PGR3 for free. Simple reason is, I want to play games. The rest is fluff, though the option is great for those who use it.
Acert93
31-Aug-2005, 04:48
Thanks for the correction. I do not have Xbox Live, I am only vaguely familiar with the service and how it functions. I had thought some games used servers, but I guess I was wrong!
I wonder though: Will PDZ have servers with 50+ players? I don't believe most cable accounts have enough bandwidth to serve that number of players. In a game like BF2 I top out at about 12 (but I have only 384Kb upstream... 5Mb down though!)
Inane_Dork
31-Aug-2005, 05:09
Live can have dedicated servers IIRC, but apparently no one has paid MS to make that happen.
MechanizedDeath
31-Aug-2005, 05:19
Good post, Acert. I agree with the points you made. I hope MMO games are free. I know what you said, I'm gonna hold out hope regardless. I'll also be saddened if EA goes ahead and makes BF2 ppv. The cost issue is what has kept a lot of people like myself away from persistent online games. With so many deep single-player games still available, there's no great need to open my wallet to pay for an online game. Once you get a taste of freedom, it's pretty hard to go back. :( PEACE.
TrungGap
31-Aug-2005, 09:25
Yeah, it's really hard to justify monthy charges...Blizzard claims that by paying monthly, you will continue to get quarterly updates and it's basically the same as paying for expansion pack. However, WOW was slow in releasing new content...Take Guild Wars (which has no monthly charge), though it's not a MMO in a classical term, however the company has released new area (content) and updates (streamed) to all for free. However, future expansion will cost money. My point, the argument of monthly payment is to foot the develpment of new content. But why should I front the money? Am I making any sense? Or am I rambling on?
But I'm more looking for some insight from the people who do use Live, as you what sets it apart and makes it a justifiable expense.
Well I use live almost every day, have done for over 2 years, and in my experience, it is worth every bit of the £40/$50 that is charged for it. The best thing i can liken it to is mobile phones. You could carry around a basic phone, a camera, an mp3 player and a personal organiser. If you are serious about your work, your music, your phone calls and your pictures, it may well be a decent compromise, to be sure, one device for one job is better than jack of all trades, master of none, but you can now get mobiles that do all of that and for the average person, that is much more convenient. I don't want to use MSN/AIM, plus run a game, plus buy a headset separately, plus re-learn things for every game on the PC.
On Live, for the most part every interface is the same, or at least glaringly obvious. All games work out of the box, no config need. All games use the headset, so it will always get used. All games have access to the same central friends list, I can invite someone across games; I can leave messages for them, there is so many things I can do in one package that unless you use MSN and a headset for skype etc regardless of gaming, they are just a hassle.
Not only that, but although Live suffers from its fair share of idiots like everything else in life, a paid for service is a real incentive to not be a moron. The community is great, and because of the friends list, changing games doesn't mean you lose touch.
As far as i'm concerned, i'm not paying my £40 for something technical like hosting, i'm paying the money for access to a club, and by doing that, i'm with other paying customers who want what i want; a good game.
Don't forget there are alternatives to XBOXLive, you CAN play for free if you use programs like XB Connect.
http://www.xbconnect.com/
XBConnect registerd 500 new accounts today alone, has nearly 800,000 user accounts and has hosted over 12 million games. As of right now it has ~5500 players online.
Wow that's impressive. It requires no modding, right?
But in Xbox 360, if Microsoft starts to update the handshaking protocol in the blackboxed firmware I guess it'll get difficult to spoof it.
One thing which you haven't taken into account, though, is Xbox Live uses P2P to host servers. MS don't wear server costs other than for the "pluses" such as user messaging, friends lists, etc.
I'd rather not have these things and be able to directly connect to a friend's Xbox to play Halo3/PGR3 for free. Simple reason is, I want to play games. The rest is fluff, though the option is great for those who use it.
Exactly.
Most of the online gaming I do is with sports games. EA does their own servers and XBL just hands off its members to EA so there's no XBL value added there.
I don't play MMOs so most of the online gaming I would do wouldn't require servers. The XBL subscription is the biggest obstacle to my getting the X360. Haven't completely ruled it out yet but if the PS3 maintains a free online model, that gives it a big leg up for me.
I can easily afford XBL but I don't want to pay for glorified messaging and matchmaking.
Now if Sony tries to charge or if EA tries to charge, then I will have to consider finding another hobby. Really, they could provide no matchmaking at all whatsoever and I would be content with entering IP addresses for people I'd find to play on forums or IM services.
NavNucST3
31-Aug-2005, 16:38
Look, this is all pretty simple, everyone will have a 30-day trial of Gold, from there you can decide if Live! is a valuable resource for you. This debate is going to end up like the HDD debate, if you haven't ever used live maybe you shouldn't speculate on how useful/useless it is to you.
Having used every tunneling SW on my xbox, none of them offer the across the board ease of use that Live offers. I also wish people would stop comparing what we have available to us as modded xbox owners to that of the xbox360, it is an unfair comparison, because what you see coming in the xbox360 is made to be better than the original unmodified xbox, and in my eyes it wins hands-down.
Live! is a fabulous service for ME, and according to the ebgames site, your looking at $50 for a 12month card plus one free month, so essentially you have 14months of Gold for $50, sorry but that doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.
TrungGap
01-Sep-2005, 00:50
Wow that's impressive. It requires no modding, right?
No modding is required.
But in Xbox 360, if Microsoft starts to update the handshaking protocol in the blackboxed firmware I guess it'll get difficult to spoof it.
It's basically a tunneling software. So, I imagine it would be really hard (near impossible) for MS to change the *handshake* so that it would not work with something like xbconnect or xlink. Remember for this to work, games must support system link....
With all this said and done...It still doesn't measure up to XBL. XBL is more of a complete package, not just easier to user. It integrates seamlessly into the game. Not to mention, you don't have to deal with latency due to rerouting.
Live can have dedicated servers IIRC, but apparently no one has paid MS to make that happen.
Black Hawk Down supports 50 player multiplayer through dedicated servers over Xbox Live.
.Sis
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