View Full Version : Mobile Suit Gundam realtime demo
Mobile Suit Gundam (as seen the demo on E3 (probably cgi version?)
anyway, you can find on IGN the realtime demo in alpha stage i presume
aparently it only uses the cell with without the spe's
http://media.ign.com/thumb/117/1179287/gundamps3_072105_clip1_qthigh_thumb.jpg
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748465/vids_1.html
cthellis42
23-Jul-2005, 13:03
Certainly looks pretty enough and nicely detailed, if pretty stilted right now. (Acceptable for an Alpha, certainly.)
I'm mainly hoping that the game will give some decent movement and animation, offer the kind of worldscape-destruction people who play giant mecha games yearn for ( ;) ), and doesn't often force combat down "lockedannels" like those demos seem to portray.
Certainly looks pretty enough and nicely detailed, if pretty stilted right now. (Acceptable for an Alpha, certainly.)
I'm mainly hoping that the game will give some decent movement and animation, offer the kind of worldscape-destruction people who play giant mecha games yearn for ( ;) ), and doesn't often force combat down "lockedannels" like those demos seem to portray.
There's a, succinct, article about this demo (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635525p1.html) over IGN.
Better quote them than paraphrase them, so:
There isn't much life in the game world at this point, and with good reason. The demo doesn't use any physical calculations. Such calculations, which will add effects such as wind and smoke, will make use of the Cell's seven SPU processing units. The game in its current form uses just the main Cell processor (minus the SPUs) and the system's graphics chip.
Bandai pointed out that developer Beck created the demo from scratch, without the use of middleware. It's unclear if Beck hopes to continue along this fully independent development path, or if some of the powerful PS3 middleware tools will be incorporated in the final rev of the game.
cthellis42
23-Jul-2005, 13:24
Right, but much of the time that's a design direction rather than anything technical, so... it's not like I can automatically fill the gaps with things I want to see there. ;)
Along other mech lines, From Software showed off their own stuff (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635514p1.html) too, which I call attention to mainly for the screenshots like this (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761163/img_2927612.html) that we can see presented at 1980x1080 and most importantly... it does not seem to have AA applied. Is this about what we can expect to see in both character detail (and mechs have lots of straight edges and sharp angles to examine AA) and background as a base state? If so... not too shabby. Still noticable, but one wonders how much it would be in motion, and how it would be affected by even light treatment techniques.
Along other mech lines, From Software showed off their own stuff (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635514p1.html) too, which I call attention to mainly for the screenshots like this (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761163/img_2927612.html) that we can see presented at 1980x1080 and most importantly... it does not seem to have AA applied. Is this about what we can expect to see in both character detail (and mechs have lots of straight edges and sharp angles to examine AA) and background as a base state? If so... not too shabby. Still noticable, but one wonders how much it would be in motion, and how it would be affected by even light treatment techniques.
The pictures of the FS Mecha game look like shiznitz, the video on the other hand is quite cool. Especiallly the destruction and the fully animated mecha. Nothing to write home about, though.
Along other mech lines, From Software showed off their own stuff (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635514p1.html) too, which I call attention to mainly for the screenshots like this (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761163/img_2927612.html) that we can see presented at 1980x1080 and most importantly... it does not seem to have AA applied. Is this about what we can expect to see in both character detail (and mechs have lots of straight edges and sharp angles to examine AA) and background as a base state? If so... not too shabby. Still noticable, but one wonders how much it would be in motion, and how it would be affected by even light treatment techniques.
Project Force is not bad in motion (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761163/vids_1.html), the laser beam is cool, I just look forward to seeing direct feed if possible (well my PC won't be able to play a raw 1080p movie though :wink:)
cthellis42
23-Jul-2005, 13:48
No, not bad in motion either. Still some shimmer, though, but I'm not sure if that makes me irritated at still seeing shimmer, or excited that this can all be presented in real time! :wink:
Curiously, though, one of the mech shots (at 0:47 - the one right before this shot (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761163/img_2927611.html)) shows some disparity with the ultra-closeup that follows. It looks notably worse from an AA respect and you can certainly see some crawling (minimal in the 0:48-49 zooming--mainly around the eye) which makes me curious as to what's going on.
How much of it all is video compression and downsampling versus what might be going on in the game, me wonder?
london-boy
23-Jul-2005, 14:07
Along other mech lines, From Software showed off their own stuff (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635514p1.html) too, which I call attention to mainly for the screenshots like this (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761163/img_2927612.html) that we can see presented at 1980x1080 and most importantly... it does not seem to have AA applied. Is this about what we can expect to see in both character detail (and mechs have lots of straight edges and sharp angles to examine AA) and background as a base state? If so... not too shabby. Still noticable, but one wonders how much it would be in motion, and how it would be affected by even light treatment techniques.
Project Force is not bad in motion (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761163/vids_1.html), the laser beam is cool, I just look forward to seeing direct feed if possible (well my PC won't be able to play a raw 1080p movie though :wink:)
Man that just looks COOL.
Can only imagine ZOE on PS3.
It looks very nice, sharp and exactly like promised allthough far from done. The only thing a little less realistic is the smoke from the bullets hitting those buildings but it's still alpha stage so.
the video on the other hand is quite cool. Especiallly the destruction and the fully animated mecha. Nothing to write home about, though.You are under-rating the possibility of a fully destructable environment! It will never rival a game with static objects and environments, but is a fair tradeoff. It's a different kind of visual fun to see buildings actually shattered in mech battle. More interesting than improved visuals, you may be able to just shoot a beam through a building to strike an opponent.
The game in its current form uses just the main Cell processor (minus the SPUs)I'm quite encouraged to know that this is just a 2.4Ghz Cell CPU. Since there are no RSX announcements I think this still uses the SLI GPU configuration.
I'm quite encouraged to know that this is just a 2.4Ghz Cell CPU. Since there are no RSX announcements I think this still uses the SLI GPU configuration.
The dev kit uses the G70 GPU..no SLI.
You are under-rating the possibility of a fully destructable environment!
If the game have some true real time alteration/destruction of the environment (Like the Red Faction Geomod, but taken to a next level), it surely looks great, and would definitely feel next-gen.
But if the destructions are the classical animated meshes stuff we have in today games, then I have to say that I'm not impressed at all.
The dev kit uses the G70 GPU..no SLI.You are right, I just read impress watch's coverage.
- RSX only expected in December
- The XDR is still 2.4 Gbps. (Well... Cell is still 2.4Ghz here) Will increase to 3.2 Gbps in final hardware.
- No FlexIO yet. Current system uses the 5 GB/s south bridge to connect to G70 with PCIe x4, providing 2 GB/s downstream. FlexIO will privide 20 GB/s downstream. :shock:
- In PS2, firmware loads the machine and the disc loads the OS and library. In PS3, firmware loads a 'hypervisor', a VMM(virtual machine manager). Games run on their own 'guest OS'. (devs correct me if mistaken)
Between buying a x360 for Chrome Hounds and this on the ps3 Im going to be broke. Mech games are my weak spot. Looks really really nice.
some clearer pics:
http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050721/psm10.jpg
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/4174/25215gr.jpg
If the game have some true real time alteration/destruction of the environment (Like the Red Faction Geomod, but taken to a next level), it surely looks great, and would definitely feel next-gen.
But if the destructions are the classical animated meshes stuff we have in today games, then I have to say that I'm not impressed at all.We are definitely thinking on different frequencies! You are thinking about the graphical representation of destruction. I am thinking about how a fully-destructable environment tortures path-finding and AI routines, and offers new gameplay possibilities.
If the game have some true real time alteration/destruction of the environment (Like the Red Faction Geomod, but taken to a next level), it surely looks great, and would definitely feel next-gen.
But if the destructions are the classical animated meshes stuff we have in today games, then I have to say that I'm not impressed at all.We are definitely thinking on different frequencies! You are thinking about the graphical representation of destruction. I am thinking about how a fully-destructable environment tortures path-finding and AI routines, and offers new gameplay possibilities.
I took these videos more as a Tech Demo/Engine Demo than an alpha release. I would be very very surprised if destructable enviroments (blowing up buildings) were not included in the final product. Especially considering all the great mech game of this generation had them (Steel Battalion, MechAssault1, etc)
In PS3, firmware loads a 'hypervisor', a VMM(virtual machine manager). Games run on their own 'guest OS'. (devs correct me if mistaken)
Hypervisor is a virtual OS manager, similar to the vanderpool tech in x86. If you require, you can run several operating systems each with a virtual image of the machine.
N OS's then run under the hypervisor, an app then runs as a client of the OS.
If we take a 'normal' OS
Level Name Example use
0 Hypervisor OS Manager
1 Kernel Linux Kernel
2 User Open Office
For games there is an extremely light weight level 1 OS and we write at level 2.
Following Epic Games, Bandai showed off a real-time demo of its PS3 Gundam game. The game is clearly still in development, as the demo featured a low frame rate, but high-resolution graphics and detailed mechs. Bandai Games company president Shin Unozawa revealed that the demo is only using one of the Cell's SPEs, and that he was amazed at the power of the PS3. The demo was developed by Bandai subsidiary BEC, and was made solely with in-house developed engines and shading programs.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129611.html
Thank you Deano for the clarification.
Titanio
23-Jul-2005, 18:54
It's fairly shocking that Bandai have got so close to the E3 prerendered demo. The (very high) geometry on the mechs seems intact. A pleasant surprise :)
scificube
23-Jul-2005, 18:56
I have a crazy notion I'd like to throw out that I'm already doubtfu aboutl...but I just want to test the waters with...
In one of the vids off Ign there is a very noticeable amount of flickering going on everywhere in this Gundam game.
It could be artifacting in the vid from a bad encode...de-interlacing filter error perhaps...
It could be the flicker you see when TAA breaks down because the FPS isn't high enough. (and you've set a low limit...but who's to say just what the rules are...if this is Nvidia's spin on TAA in a closed box environment)
I know the latter is less likely because:
1. AA may be the last thing on these devs minds this early in development
2. TAA may be something that it totally proprietary to ATI
3. I think I only see the flickering in one of the vids which may be the most telling thing...
4. TAA just won't work too well if the FPS dips below 60FPS so only games that can...
I'm curious as to just how likely or unlikely it is TAA being used. Is TAA ATI's sole property or can Nvidia use it or something similar to it.
The reason I'd like to know if TAA could be used at all on the PS3 is because it may be the means by which the console can handle 4X AA in high def...I should say it may be the way 4X AA can be used pretty freely although not as freely as what the Xenos's daughter die allows. 2x TAA = 4X AA and this seems to be the upper limit of what next gen consoles are expected to do. 2X AA or TAA on the RSX which looks to be a fair bit more powerful than the 7800 GTX should be cake no? (at least as compared to 4X AA at 720p...1080p)
If TAA is something the RSX can do (it's more of a legal issue as to whether it 'could' or not) I would expect the legacy method of AA to be there as well so this could explain why one vid flickers and one does not...but probably doesn't.
I more interested in TAA usage being a possibility than whether it was actually used. As a secondary issue I am also curious as to whether TAA found a home within Xenos. If TAA is something Xenos can do how does this affect that little tiling chart I've seen around here somewhere...the one where it shows the relation to the number of tiles needed per combination of AA and outputted resolution.
Don't hurt me :?
edit:
Is it too much to think Nvidia would implement programmable sample patterns for AA on the RSX?
I don't see how ATI could stop them from doing so...
mckmas8808
25-Jul-2005, 03:03
Look plain and simple I'm happy to see a game in hi-def that looks like it could have at least 4x AA in it on the PS3. A lot of doubter here and across the web said that this game could possibly look like it did at E3.
Well they were wrong. It seems like the PS3 is a lot more powerful than a lot of people want to believe. And to think that the betakit will be way stronger than want Bandai had is amazing to think about.
And Bandai didn't even start using the SPE's yet, so can you imagine? And with the RSX connection with the CELL which they also can't do now. Please guys I beg you don't flame me but it has to be said. I don't see 1 reason why the KZ video can't become real-life.
At first it was the volumetic smoke, but the Call of Duty Demo has erased that thought. Then it was the geometry of the chartacters, but now we see this mech game by Bandai. Give me one reason why KZ and the other videos that Sony should can't be done in realtime?
Please no flames Im actually really trying to learn something here. :)
Thanks.
Look plain and simple I'm happy to see a game in hi-def that looks like it could have at least 4x AA in it on the PS3. A lot of doubter here and across the web said that this game could possibly look like it did at E3.
Well they were wrong. It seems like the PS3 is a lot more powerful than a lot of people want to believe. And to think that the betakit will be way stronger than want Bandai had is amazing to think about.
And Bandai didn't even start using the SPE's yet, so can you imagine? And with the RSX connection with the CELL which they also can't do now. Please guys I beg you don't flame me but it has to be said. I don't see 1 reason why the KZ video can't become real-life.
At first it was the volumetic smoke, but the Call of Duty Demo has erased that thought. Then it was the geometry of the chartacters, but now we see this mech game by Bandai. Give me one reason why KZ and the other videos that Sony should can't be done in realtime?
Please no flames Im actually really trying to learn something here. :)
Thanks.
Theres a big difference between the Gundam demo and the KZ video. I'm sure there will be games this coming generation that blow our minds. But alot of the little things in that KZ video will not be possible. Like the quality and fluidity of animation in which the NPCs interacted with the enviroment. That alone would take north of 512MB of ram.
Not trying to dash your dreams cause I hope Im wrong.
mckmas8808
25-Jul-2005, 06:08
Theres a big difference between the Gundam demo and the KZ video. I'm sure there will be games this coming generation that blow our minds. But alot of the little things in that KZ video will not be possible. Like the quality and fluidity of animation in which the NPCs interacted with the enviroment. That alone would take north of 512MB of ram.
Not trying to dash your dreams cause I hope Im wrong.
I'm asking out of total respect. What is it that the NPCs are doing as far as animation goes that not possible? Is it the way that they shoot their guns, run around the battlefield, etc? Kojima stated in an EGM article that they are looking to change the way Snake moves in MGS4, rather than just giving him a pretty face.
A lot of devs are saying that the animation has to be believable this gen more than ever because the graphics will be so good.
On Topic: I can't wait to see what Gundam will be like when they actually use some middleware like Aegia's physics, with a 3.2 GHz cell, RSX, use of the SPE's (the meat and potatoes of the CELL), and the increase in bandwidth. Can you imagine?
P.S. people said the same thing about the graphics in KZ months ago.
Meybe processural creation of animations could work :? :?: .
On Topic: I can't wait to see what Gundam will be like when they actually use some middleware like Aegia's physics, with a 3.2 GHz cell, RSX, use of the SPE's (the meat and potatoes of the CELL), and the increase in bandwidth. Can you imagine?
amazing I hope....
mckmas8808
This technical thread is about the Gundam real-time demo shown by Bandai, not about the Killzone CGi being in real time or not. Keep on topic.
BTW, Tap In let's not try to do X360/PS3 comparison when there's none to do. Nothing good would come out the thread, you know it.
seismologist
25-Jul-2005, 08:31
The xbox 360 Gundam seems to be a different game altogether.
BTW, Tap In let's not try to do X360/PS3 comparison when there's none to do. Nothing good would come out the thread, you know it.
gotcha :oops:
At first glance I thought this was an appropriate place for the news but upon reflection I see it is a technical discussion that can do without this info.
sorry
Shifty Geezer
25-Jul-2005, 09:41
mckmas : The difference isn't image quality but what's happening and amount of detail. Laa-Yosh for one went into the excessive detail of KZ - not apparent in this Gundam demo, and we talked about animation. But all the arguments were said back then, so there's no need to revisit them, every time a new next-gen demo comes out. The reasons why people were skeptical then haven't changed.
How's about we leave KZ on the back burner until it appears? Even if something else matches the E3 showing, discuss that and not the long-worn KZ debate.
The game looks good esp at an early buld of it .
Seems like its going to have online play based on what i'm hearing about the xbox 360 version
seismologist
25-Jul-2005, 15:38
Seems like its going to have online play based on what i'm hearing about the xbox 360 version
This is a PS3 tech demo. There is no Xbox 360 "version"
Though online play in this game would be pretty cool. Especially if the mechs are destructable as in the original E3 video.
typoEDR
25-Jul-2005, 17:44
The xbox 360 Gundam seems to be a different game altogether.
It is. Two different teams are devving the games. The developers of the Gundam MMORPG (I believe) are producing the X360 version.
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