View Full Version : Which region is largest in terms of game and console sales?
I'm pretty sure North America is the largest single region for video game sales these days...
But I was talking with someone earlier today who said that the non-English speaking video game market was "far larger" than the English speaking one.
The only areas I know of that play console games that aren't predominately English are continental europe and Japan -- when added together, are those far bigger than North America + UK + Australia?
Mr. Angry Pants
26-Oct-2002, 00:15
But I was talking with someone earlier today who said that the non-English speaking video game market was "far larger" than the English speaking one.
If you're a pirate, sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if the US by itself is a bigger market than Japan and mainland Europe combined. Just about all the other non-english speaking countries that do spend a noticiable amount of money on video games are completely over-run with pirating. This is why you don't see the Big Three scrambeling to get their consoles out in Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Russia, etc.
http://www.xengamers.com/sections/news/8988/
;)
(MS is used to getting their software ripped off out here, I'm sure they've weighed the pros and cons of launching in these areas)
zurich
Mr. Angry Pants
26-Oct-2002, 01:26
I saw that, Zurich. I said they weren't in a hurry to launch in those countries. I didn't say they were never going to launch. ;)
Korea has huge potential as a video game market. Again, it's the pirating that causes console makers to shy away.
The North american market is actually IS larger than Europe and Japan combined.
Fafalada
26-Oct-2002, 01:59
I actually remember hearing somewhere that 'potential size' of Euro Gaming market is larger then US, but it's offset largely by the whole non-unified market thing.
The fact Europe has a very lively piracy scene as well probably doesn't help either.
As for Korea, the console manufacturers barely started off there, give them some time. It IS a PC dominated market, and you can't just change that overnight.
It is true that SCEK's current position isn't much different then that of M$ Japan though :p at least saleswise.
Looking at the sales figures, it looks like for some consoles (GameCube, PS2) the non-English-speaking market is larger than the English-speaking market. For other consoles (Xbox), the English-speaking market is currently much larger than the non-English-speaking market.
Check out the Google Zeitgiest (http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html) numbers -- it shows WWW English usage "market share" gradualy declining as more of the rest of the world comes on line. This isn't directly related to video game console sales, but I think it's an indicator that non-English computer use is growing.
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/sept02_lang.gif
Korea's a special case -- Korean laws forbid the import of Japanese entertainment products there for many years. Gamers had no choice but to embrace PC gaming. Now that you can buy Japanese (and US) consoles in Korea, it seems likely that many of the Korean gamers will start playing consoles.
BenSkywalker
26-Oct-2002, 05:02
The US is hands down the largest gaming market, having a ~50% edge over Japan or Europe(who are both fairly close). Based on last years figures the US had about $9Billion in sales with Japan and Europe both hanging around $6Billion.
But I was talking with someone earlier today who said that the non-English speaking video game market was "far larger" than the English speaking one.
Combine the Yanks, Brits and Aussies and it likely would be close to half the global gaming market(if not exceed that mark). Also of note, the US market is the largest growth market for gaming for many years now followed by Europe with Japan remaining a relatively flat market(the Japanese market has been losing a significant percentage of its global presence in the gaming market for many years now). Europe should have already exceeded the size of the Japanese market and started to pull away by this point. I wouldn't be surprised to the US in the ~$11-$12Billion range for '02 with Europe in the $7-$8Billion area with Japan having relatively flat sales over a year ago.
I actually remember hearing somewhere that 'potential size' of Euro Gaming market is larger then US, but it's offset largely by the whole non-unified market thing.
The fact Europe has a very lively piracy scene as well probably doesn't help either.
As for Korea, the console manufacturers barely started off there, give them some time. It IS a PC dominated market, and you can't just change that overnight.
It is true that SCEK's current position isn't much different then that of M$ Japan though :p at least saleswise.
Still, 450k units isn't too shabby. (or so I've heard) So, judging by the developing house of Fafracer, you work in a Korean company, correct?
Korea may be run by likes of Starcraft and DDR, (ok, 'Pump it Up' more precisely) but surprisingly, you also see a niche franchise like 'The King of Fighters' having massive popularity over there too.
Mr. Angry Pants
26-Oct-2002, 07:54
Korea's a special case -- Korean laws forbid the import of Japanese entertainment products there for many years. Gamers had no choice but to embrace PC gaming. Now that you can buy Japanese (and US) consoles in Korea, it seems likely that many of the Korean gamers will start playing consoles.
I'm surprised the law was lifted, considering Japan has yet to apologize for, or even acknowledge the war crimes they perpetrated against Koreans while they occupied the country.
Korea's a special case -- Korean laws forbid the import of Japanese entertainment products there for many years. Gamers had no choice but to embrace PC gaming. Now that you can buy Japanese (and US) consoles in Korea, it seems likely that many of the Korean gamers will start playing consoles.
I'm surprised the law was lifted, considering Japan has yet to apologize for, or even acknowledge the war crimes they perpetrated against Koreans while they occupied the country.
They haven't completely lifted the ban. They've been gradually doing that over the years. Koreans already have Japanese comics a decade ago.
The North american market is actually IS larger than Europe and Japan combined.
No its not. Look at console sales and game sales for U.S vs Japan + Europe.
Lets take PS2 sales back in may (the only figures I have for a new console in all regions), these are Sony's own numbers:
U.S = 11.3 million
Japan = 9.9 million
Europe = 8.8 million
Japan and Europe combined = 18.7 million
As far game sales, rought figures are:
U.S = $9 billion
Japan = $6 billion
Europe = $6.5 billion
Japan and Europe combined = $12.5 billion
Mr. Angry Pants
26-Oct-2002, 12:26
Teasy, you can't use only PS2 sales figures as an example. Both the Xbox and GC are selling at a greater ratio in comparison to the PS2 than in either Europe or Japan.
While it certainly won't make that much of a difference, it's still something to consider. ;)
Also, the NA market is growing faster than Europe, and Japan is practicaly standing still. Unless there's a dramatic change in all three territories, North America will slowly but surely distance itself from the pack.
I like to see Japan stagnate. Perhaps this will cause the myth that Japanese are inherintly better game makers than everyone else to fade away.
Teasy, you can't use only PS2 sales figures as an example. Both the Xbox and GC are selling at a greater ratio in comparison to the PS2 than in either Europe or Japan.
Yeah I'd add GameCube numbers if I could. But sadely I don't have them for all regions. If anyone has them I'd add them on.
I don't think XBox sales would be a fair reflection of consoles sales accross regions. Due to the fact that the Japanese hate it due to it being a U.S console and some Europeans also hate it because its a MS console (even if I did want to add them I don't have XBox sales for all regions either).
Also, the NA market is growing faster than Europe, and Japan is practicaly standing still. Unless there's a dramatic change in all three territories, North America will slowly but surely distance itself from the pack.
Perhaps yeah, but also maybe not, after all we can't see the future and trends change. But then we have to also remember that the comment I was replying to, and indeed this thread, is about sales now not in the future.
Mr. Angry Pants
26-Oct-2002, 12:58
I don't think XBox sales would be a fair reflection of consoles sales accross regions. Due to the fact that the Japanese hate it due to it being a U.S console and some Europeans also hate it because its a MS console (even if I did want to add them I don't have XBox sales for all regions either).
er, lots of people in the US hate the Xbox because its a Microsoft console. A few individuals here even hate it because it's a US console (those of the "Japanese super men are our superiors" persuasion) :lol: .
You also have to remember that the size of a market isn't governed by how well a single product sells (unless, of course, it's the only product in that market--digressing). If a European who wants to buy a console doesn't want to purchase the Xbox because of some petty double-standard, then he'll buy a Gamecube, or a PS2.
Mr. Angry Pants
My point is PS2 and GameCube are selling fine in all regions, they seem to be pretty much uneffected by any anti this or that feeling, so there sales will more accurately reflect the size of each region compared to XBox sales. But if you really want to include XBox then go ahead, if you have XBox numbers anyway.
Although as you already mentioned, adding XBox and GameCube numbers won't really change the picture, Europe and Japan combined will still be bigger then the U.S in both hardware and software sales.
Mr. Angry Pants
26-Oct-2002, 13:09
I'm saying you need to include the sales of all three consoles in all three regions to get an accurate idea of the size of a market. As I said, if the Xbox isn't selling well in one region then sales of the other consoles in that region will increase accordingly.
Example: If Microsoft suddenly stopped selling the Xbox in the US, there would be an immediate boost to both Gamecube and PS2 sales as gamers who would have baught an Xbox buy the other consoles instead.
Teasy,
No its not. Look at console sales and game sales for U.S vs Japan + Europe.
Not only is only taking the results of sales up until MAY not conclusive evidence, in the case of PS2, it's flawed for a few reasons.
Lets take PS2 sales back in may (the only figures I have for a new console in all regions), these are Sony's own numbers:
U.S = 11.3 million
Japan = 9.9 million
Europe = 8.8 million
For one thing, the PS2 was on sale an entire year longer in japan then it was in north america. Yet, the north american sales surpassed the sales in Japan in a shorter time. More consoles are being sold in this region at a faster rate. That tends to ONLY happen when the market potential is larger.
Like angry pants said, if you add up ALL of the console platform sales, you'll find the biggest numbers are sold in North america, again showing it's a larger market.
Another thing, is that the console is STILL on sale, so it hasn't reached a point where it's sales are tapering off yet. So these numbers don't not show the complete picture. If you want complete numbers to see how large the regions are, you'll need to look at how the sales numbers are divided up for something like PSone/PSX or N64 even going back far enough for the Snes and Genesis.
Not only is only taking the results of sales up until MAY not conclusive evidence, in the case of PS2, it's flawed for a few reasons.
Why would the sales numbers being from May make anything flawed?, May is like any other month. All that matters is that sales are taken from each region at the same time.
For one thing, the PS2 was on sale an entire year longer in japan then it was in north america. Yet, the north american sales surpassed the sales in Japan in a shorter time. More consoles are being sold in this region at a faster rate. That tends to ONLY happen when the market potential is larger.
Yes, but what you haven't realised is that Europe got PS2 even later. In fact I would not be suprised to find out that there was a longer gap between PS2's U.S and Euro launch then there was between the Japan and U.S launch, so it more then levels itself out.
Like angry pants said, if you add up ALL of the console platform sales, you'll find the biggest numbers are sold in North america, again showing it's a larger market.
Well post them then.
Another thing, is that the console is STILL on sale, so it hasn't reached a point where it's sales are tapering off yet. So these numbers don't not show the complete picture.
You say the U.S sells more then Europe and Japan combined, hardware sales so far prove that to be wrong, and software sales do the same. Now you say we must wait to see the final sales, well if we need to do that then what evidence do you have that the U.S sells more then Europe an Japan combined?
If you want complete numbers to see how large the regions are, you'll need to look at how the sales numbers are divided up for something like PSone/PSX or N64 even going back far enough for the Snes and Genesis
But then the majority of those sales will have been made along time ago, which would not show the current market.
Why would the sales numbers being from May make anything flawed?, May is like any other month. All that matters is that sales are taken from each region at the same time.
OK, you don't understand... If North america can surpass japan's sales in a single year compared to two years japan has had, think of that number projected out over the course of 4 - 5 years. the sales of the console have been incresing, and not dropping off as of yet. You can't take the first year or first two years to show which market is larger. You need to look at the RATE of sales over those first two years and use that to determine the sales of the conlose during it's life time.
Or, just simply use the last generation PSX market as an example.
Yes, but what you haven't realised is that Europe got PS2 even later. In fact I would not be suprised to find out that there was a longer gap between PS2's U.S and Euro launch then there was between the Japan and U.S launch, so it more then levels itself out.
Teasy, where are you getting this from? From what I understand it. Japan got the PS2 first and europe and north america got the consle at roughly the same time. We're just coming up on the second full year (this fall) PS2 has been on sale in north america right now. There certainly was NOT a gap as large as a year when the PS2 went on sale in NA and Europe, or else tit would have launched in europe a few months before Gamecube and Xbox.
Well post them then.
Why should I? You've seen the sales number sfor Xbox PS2 and GC in north america. Are they not larger in NA then in Europe OR Japan? I know what your going to say here, "not combined if you add japan and europe together." Well, no not yet, but the rate of sales is much higher in north america and it will easily surpass the both of them before the consoles are replaced with the next generation.
You say the U.S sells more then Europe and Japan combined, hardware sales so far prove that to be wrong,
Teasy do you really think I'm basing my comment on THIS generations console sales?? Of course not, unlike yourself, I don't think it would make any sense to do it that way. My comment is based on the LAST few generations of console sales. The numbers with current console sales just prove that it's going to happen again. They certainly don't prove the north american market is NOT the largest around.
Now you say we must wait to see the final sales, well if we need to do that then what evidence do you have that the U.S sells more then Europe an Japan combined?
Teasy I really don't see how you can't understand this. It's pretty simple. Take the rate of sales and project the numbers out over the course of the next few years. Also as I've said if you want proof of this, just look at the sales of PSone/PSX through it's life time. Look at the sales of Snes and Genesis through it's life time. All those numbers will show the same thing.
But then the majority of those sales will have been made along time ago, which would not show the current market.
Yes they were alittle while back, but not long enough that they wouldn't show the same picture. Even still the market is increasing and growing in all regions. It's not however growing at a faster rate than North america.
Actually, before you reply to this, let me ask you a single question.
Do you really think you can tell which region is the largest market before the consoles have been out for more than 5 years?
OK, you don't understand... If North america can surpass japan's sales in a single year compared to two years japan has had, think of that number projected out over the course of 4 - 5 years. the sales of the console have been incresing, and not dropping off as of yet. You can't take the first year or first two years to show which market is larger. You need to look at the RATE of sales over those first two years and use that to determine the sales of the conlose during it's life time.
Ok lets do that, PS2 in each region over 48 months:
U.S = 28.6 million
Europe = 23.5 million
Japan = 18.3 million
Europe + Japan = 41.8 million
Teasy, where are you getting this from? From what I understand it. Japan got the PS2 first and europe and north america got the consle at roughly the same time.
Ok it turns out my guess was wrong there. PS2 was released in Japan on the 4th of March 2000, in the U.S 7 months later and in Europe just over a month after that. By May 2002 the PS2 had been out in Japan for 26 months, U.S for 19 months and Europe for 18 months (give or take a few days). So we can then take the numbers and try to add on the extra months for the U.S and Europe to get all regions to the same 26 months (this is the starting point I used above BTW):
PS2 in each regions after 26 months:
U.S = 15.47 million
Europe = 12.75 million
Japan = 9.9 million
Europe + Japan = 22.65 million
Why should I? You've seen the sales number sfor Xbox PS2 and GC in north america. Are they not larger in NA then in Europe OR Japan? I know what your going to say here, "not combined if you add japan and europe together." Well, no not yet, but the rate of sales is much higher in north america and it will easily surpass the both of them before the consoles are replaced with the next generation.
I have no problem with this if you show me the numbers to prove it.
Teasy I really don't see how you can't understand this. It's pretty simple. Take the rate of sales and project the numbers out over the course of the next few years.
I've done that above for PS2, but I can't do it for XBox or GameCube sadely.
Also as I've said if you want proof of this, just look at the sales of PSone/PSX through it's life time. Look at the sales of Snes and Genesis through it's life time. All those numbers will show the same thing.
Well be my guest and show those numbers, because I can't find them.
Although I don't see why numbers from many years ago prove anything today. How do you know that European video game sales haven't rose faster then U.S sales within the last few years? After all the Euro market used to be smaller then Japan, now the Euro market is quite clearly bigger. I've no doubt that the U.S market has grown allot too, but how do you know its grown at a faster rate then the European market over the last few years?
Still it will be interesting to see PSX and N64 numbers if you have them, as I suppose it will be some indication of todays market too.
Yes they were alittle while back, but not long enough that they wouldn't show the same picture. Even still the market is increasing and growing in all regions. It's not however growing at a faster rate than North america.
I remember hearing not to long ago that Europe was the fastest growing in recent years, with Japan the slowest.
Actually, before you reply to this, let me ask you a single question.
Do you really think you can tell which region is the largest market before the consoles have been out for more than 5 years?
Not with anywhere near perfect precision no, but then I'll send the same question right back at you.
After all it was you who made the original statement that the U.S is (that's is not was) a bigger market then Europe and Japan combined. By your own admittence you cannot possibly know that yet.
Now if you want to say that in the PSX/N64 generation the U.S market was bigger then the European and Japanese market combined and show me the PSX and N64 sales numbers to back that up then I'll agree with you on that point.
teasy,
Ok lets do that, PS2 in each region over 48 months:
U.S = 28.6 million
Europe = 23.5 million
Japan = 18.3 million
Europe + Japan = 41.8 million
Hello, WHERE did you get these numbers from exactly? How are these numbers accounting for the rate at which consoles are selling faster in north america? Oh that's right it doesn't account for that does it so what do they show exactly?
So we can then take the numbers and try to add on the extra months for the U.S and Europe to get all regions to the same 26 months (this is the starting point I used above BTW):
That's not an accurate way of doing it. You can't take the final number of sales as they were in May and project that forward. You need to look at each region's monthly sales and project those forwards.
PS2 in each regions after 26 months:
U.S = 15.47 million
Europe = 12.75 million
Japan = 9.9 million
Europe + Japan = 22.65 million
Your math doesn't make sense. it doesn't take into account how sales increase or decrease in regions. Teasy once again, you aren't listening to what I'm saying. You can't take the numbers at just over 2 years and see just how large the market is, you need 5 years or the console to run the course of it's life time. As I said just use the PSX numbers.
I have no problem with this if you show me the numbers to prove it.
I rather the person here that hasn't seen and real numbers on how the markets have looked, I think the burden of proof is on your shoulders. Not mine. you haven't done that and it would be a waste of your time if you wanted to...
I've done that above for PS2, but I can't do it for XBox or GameCube sadely.
No, no you haven't. As I said above, you have to look at the monthly sales over the course of each year in each region, figure out the percentage increase in sales for each month from one year to the next, and then project those numbers forwards to year 5. What you'll end up seeing is that the percentage increase per month (between the years we currently have information for) in north america is typically higher than that of Japan and Europe.
Well be my guest and show those numbers, because I can't find them.
I have no reason to find them, I've seen them a long time back. You however sound like you haven't seen them since your disagreeing with what actually happend. hey before I saw the market numbers I once thought Japan was the largest video game market out of them all, and I was dead wrong.
Although I don't see why numbers from many years ago prove anything today.
If i remember correct called a market trend. It shows just how each market changes with each new video game generation. If you can't understand how this would work, then perhaps there's not much point in discussing this and you should do some reaserch on your own? I'm sure you can find info regarding this on the net. Smoewhere...
Still it will be interesting to see PSX and N64 numbers if you have them, as I suppose it will be some indication of todays market too.
I don't have access to those numbers now, but they may be around the net somewhere.
I remember hearing not to long ago that Europe was the fastest growing in recent years, with Japan the slowest.
Japan is the slowest growing, as well as the smallest. I don't recall anythign saying that europe was the fastest growing, but it did have a ways to go to get close to north america.
Fafalada
27-Oct-2002, 07:32
Still, 450k units isn't too shabby. (or so I've heard)
That would be a bit more then I've heard.
Anyway, last I heard any numbers was a bit more then a month ago, but still, I don't think official sales are that high yet. (unless maybe if one also counted sales predating the official launch... :P )
So, judging by the developing house of Fafracer, you work in a Korean company, correct?
Yes.
Hello, WHERE did you get these numbers from exactly? How are these numbers accounting for the rate at which consoles are selling faster in north america?
I took the original numbers from May, took out 7 months of sales from the U.S and added them onto the original number to get the full 26 months (to make the U.S level with Japan). I did the same thing for Europe. Of course this takes into account how the U.S is selling faster, it takes what the U.S sold in only 19 months and expanded that to meet the 26 months that PS2 has been out in Japan. It doesn't allow the sales for the U.S or Europe to expand further compared to Japan over the original 19 months, but its just not possible to do that with the numbers available, its not even possible to do that accurately no matter what numbers you have because monthly sales do not go linearly.
That's not an accurate way of doing it. You can't take the final number of sales as they were in May and project that forward. You need to look at each region's monthly sales and project those forwards.
How can you do that?, how can you project sales from month to month, they fluctuate.
Your math doesn't make sense. it doesn't take into account how sales increase or decrease in regions.
You simply cannot do that accurately. But the numbers without growth after the first 19 months projected into 4 years show the U.S well behind. 28.6 million for the U.S vs 41.8 million for Europe + Japan. You really think that over those two extra years the U.S market would have grown so much more then Europe + Japan to get past that 13.2 million gap. Even if it grew enough to get that extra 13 million, Europe + Japan would have also grown by then too.
"Take the rate of sales and project the numbers out over the course of the next few years."
That's what I've done, that original number for the U.S shows the rate of sales so far for PS2. How can the total number of PS2 sales over 19 months not show the rate at which PS2 is selling? Yeah it doesn't show the rate of growth past 19 months, but that is not possible anyway.
I rather the person here that hasn't seen and real numbers on how the markets have looked, I think the burden of proof is on your shoulders. Not mine. you haven't done that and it would be a waste of your time if you wanted to...
Typical Quincy, you say this in every thread were proof for something is needed. Apparently you are exempt from proving anything to anybody and whenever proof is needed its someone elses responsibility to show it. Give me a logic reason why you see it as my responsibility to show these numbers?
No, no you haven't. As I said above, you have to look at the monthly sales over the course of each year in each region, figure out the percentage increase in sales for each month from one year to the next, and then project those numbers forwards to year 5. What you'll end up seeing is that the percentage increase per month (between the years we currently have information for) in north america is typically higher than that of Japan and Europe.
Well then do that, show me these numbers. Because I don't think the numbers your talking about even excist in the public domain and I think you know that. Also I don't even see what your suggesting as accurate anyway, yes it at least attempts to show growth, but how can you predict future numbers month to months, it doesn't work.
I honestly think your suggesting this because your safe in the knowledge that nobody can get that info anyway. I can't find that info, and apparently you can't either, even though somehow you know exactly what it'll show even though you don't have it. Then the most accurate info available to us is the info I posted, which shows you to be wrong. Is it perfect?.. no, but it is a very good indication and its all we have.
I have no reason to find them, I've seen them a long time back. You however sound like you haven't seen them since your disagreeing with what actually happend. hey before I saw the market numbers I once thought Japan was the largest video game market out of them all, and I was dead wrong.
If I ever become this deliberately difficult someone please shoot me.
What logic is this?.. you tell me I should look at some numbers, but you won't even look for them because you've already seen them?
So what if you've already seen them, until there posting in this thread there nothing but here say. I posted some evidence that your wrong, now unless you post something better to prove yourself right then you've lost this argument.
If i remember correct called a market trend. It shows just how each market changes with each new video game generation.
So showing PSX numbers would do that?.. nope.
I don't have access to those numbers now, but they may be around the net somewhere.
Well to bad then, I've look for them and can't find them, neither on the Sony site nor on google using many different searches.
I took the original numbers from May, took out 7 months of sales from the U.S and added them onto the original number to get the full 26 months (to make the U.S level with Japan). I did the same thing for Europe. Of course this takes into account how the U.S is selling faster, it takes what the U.S sold in only 19 months and expanded that to meet the 26 months that PS2 has been out in Japan. It doesn't allow the sales for the U.S or Europe to expand further compared to Japan over the original 19 months, but its just not possible to do that with the numbers available, its not even possible to do that accurately no matter what numbers you have because monthly sales do not go linearly.
Well, what you did certianly doesn't work. Console sales for the PS2 this year in north america are higher then what they were last year. It sounds to me like you divided the total sales number by the number of months, and then took 7 of those months and added it to the total to reach 26. This does NOT include the sales possibly increasing over the 7 months you added. Also, you can't divide the total sales by the number of months PS2 has been out in NA becuase certain month have increased sales over other months (like the months leading up to Christmas).
How can you do that?, how can you project sales from month to month, they fluctuate.
You can project them based on previous generations and how much larger the market increases with each console generation. Even still, it's not accurate since you're hoping that each new generation does better than the previous, although this isn't always the case. This is EXACTLY why I said you should "really" be basing this off the previous generation (PSX and N64).
You simply cannot do that accurately. But the numbers without growth after the first 19 months projected into 4 years show the U.S well behind. 28.6 million for the U.S vs 41.8 million for Europe + Japan. You really think that over those two extra years the U.S market would have grown so much more then Europe + Japan to get past that 13.2 million gap. Even if it grew enough to get that extra 13 million, Europe + Japan would have also grown by then too.
Teasy you're totally confused here. Of course doing this isn't completely accurate, that's why it's called a projection. What you've done however doesn't take anything into account. Yes, of course Europe and japan would have grown while North America has grown, but not at the same rate. Also, year 5 in japan would be year 4 in North america. To be able to project the sales of the consles falling off or growing in the last two years can only be done by looking at previous console generations over the last decade.
That's what I've done, that original number for the U.S shows the rate of sales so far for PS2. How can the total number of PS2 sales over 19 months not show the rate at which PS2 is selling? Yeah it doesn't show the rate of growth past 19 months, but that is not possible anyway.
No you haven't done that at all. The rate at which PS2 is selling IS the rate of growth! How can Sony sell consoles without the overall PS2 market growing? To show the rate of growth, you'll need to see the sales For EACH month in each region over the course of it's life time. It certianly is possible to show that and also show the rate of sales if you had the correct numbers to argue agianst what I've been saying.
Typical Quincy, you say this in every thread were proof for something is needed. Apparently you are exempt from proving anything to anybody and whenever proof is needed its someone elses responsibility to show it. Give me a logic reason why you see it as my responsibility to show these numbers?
Teasy, this is actually somehting YOU do on a constant basis. Someone in the know says something you don't like and the first thing you do is argue with them telling them to prove that YOU are wrong. Well here's some news for you dude, not all information is readily avaible for every silly little argument you feel like drumming up on the internet. The sales numbers for previous console generations aren't availible anywhere that I know for you to see. You'd have to pay lot's of dollars to view this information from a market research website/company. Websites like PC data and others that are better that I once had access to, have information dating back to the NES days. Also, if you want a logical reasons to see why it's YOUR responsibility to prove someone else wrong, well let's just say that you do NOT have the benefit of the doubt. If you want to know the "truth" then you should research it yourself instead of coming up with some answer that you THINK is the truth. If you haven't actually tried to research your argument, then WHAT are you BASING postion on??
Well then do that, show me these numbers. Because I don't think the numbers your talking about even excist in the public domain and I think you know that.
Of course, they don't as far as I know. That's just the thing, it's the only way to prove that you are correct. from the number I've seen in the past, you are NOT correct. What, do you think I'm just making this up? What are YOU basing your opinion on? the math you did above? I certinaly hope not, since your way of making projections is far from being reasonable.
Also I don't even see what your suggesting as accurate anyway, yes it at least attempts to show growth, but how can you predict future numbers month to months, it doesn't work.
You've seen the weather fore cast on T.V I'm sure. Just how do they forcst the weather on a day to day or week to week basis? They look at current and previous weather patterns dating back years to try and provide an accurate forecast. If you want to predict these numbers you need all of the sales over the first months it's been sold, and you also need monthly sales nubmers from the previous generation. Without that you can't show anything that makes sense.
I honestly think your suggesting this because your safe in the knowledge that nobody can get that info anyway.
I'm simply telling you what you need to predict sales in a more accurate manner. If you don't believe me then fine, but i don't see any reason for you to doubt what I'm saying. I basically think you're arguing this becuase you live in Europe and there's "no way" the North American market can be larger than both Europe in Japan in your eyes, even though you have SEEN zero information to base your opinion on.
I can't find that info, and apparently you can't either, even though somehow you know exactly what it'll show even though you don't have it.
I'm telling you what the market data showed from the previous console generation. That the north american market is larger than both europe and japan together. YOU on the other hand are trying to prove this is NOT the case with incomplete numbers and ONLY a single console. The last time I checked you need MORE data to accurate predict/forecast the sales over the course of this generation.
Then the most accurate info available to us is the info I posted, which shows you to be wrong. Is it perfect?.. no, but it is a very good indication and its all we have.
The data posted does NOT show me or anyone else to be wrong in this thread. What you've done with the data however is completely WRONG.
If I ever become this deliberately difficult someone please shoot me.
BANG!
What logic is this?.. you tell me I should look at some numbers, but you won't even look for them because you've already seen them?
The burden is on you Teasy. You've ignored what we've said here for the most part. you don't have enough data to back up your opinion or even argue for that matter. This is very typical of you. If you want the information then you should get it on your own. After all, it's the only true way to back up your your assumption. I'm nto making any assumptions, I'm telling you what I've seen regarding market data for the previous consle generation. You on the other hand haven't seen anything. personally I think you'r eonly arguing becuase you really want to try and prove me wrong.
So what if you've already seen them, until there posting in this thread there nothing but here say. I posted some evidence that your wrong, now unless you post something better to prove yourself right then you've lost this argument.
You haven't posted ANY evidence Teasy. You havne't proved I'm wrong, you havne't proved you ar eright. All you posted is something ONLY you consider evidence. You didn't even listen to us when we said you need to add up the console sales for EACH consle in each region to get an accurate picture just how large the regions are. You also need monthly sales numbers to proper predict this generation. You obviously haven't seen console sales numbers from the previous generation to base your opinion on, so basically this is just you trying to argue over nothing!
So showing PSX numbers would do that?.. nope.
Stop being so dense. Showing the console sales of the previous generation is the best way to see how the currnet generation will be divided up. Yup.
Well to bad then, I've look for them and can't find them, neither on the Sony site nor on google using many different searches.
As we said before, you need MORE numbers to accurately prerdict the sales of this generation. The sales are split between three players this time, Not only Sony. We've been arguing about the ENTIRE market, not just the PS2.
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