View Full Version : Xbox the same price as GC in UK!
DVFtaxman
11-Oct-2002, 18:31
So now that the Xbox is selling for the same price as the GC in the UK how do you think this will effect GC sales? Effectively this makes the Xbox actually cheaper out of the box as you don't need the memory card with Xbox.
In my mind this could really spice up the whole contest, especially with the PS2 being SOOO much more expensive than either of the others!
.
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BTW this is available from COMET with NO trade in(unlike some stores).
Dave Baumann
11-Oct-2002, 18:34
I wish you hadn't have said that...
http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/product.do?sku=836956
(Mmmmmmm....)
DVFtaxman
11-Oct-2002, 18:40
£171 with an extra official controller and a game isn't a bad deal, but the news is that the SEGA pack will be released at the old £159 price......or so the chap in comet said today! :o
ie Xbox, extra controller, SEGA GT and JSRF.
So is this another XBox price drop?! Or is this £129 deal only at some stores?
Lowering the price of a product is not bad from a consumer point of view. Lowering it every month is not a good way to impress the public.
Johnny Awesome
11-Oct-2002, 23:51
:roll:
Steve Dave Part Deux
12-Oct-2002, 01:38
Enjoy it while it lasts. Once Microsoft establishes themselves you can kiss this "competitive pricing" goodbye.
Mr. Angry Pants
12-Oct-2002, 01:58
What exactly do you mean by that?
Steve Dave Part Deux
12-Oct-2002, 02:28
Microsoft won't let themselves bleed forever. Once they have a substantial following they will no longer have to lure customers with ruinous pricing schemes.
Mr. Angry Pants
12-Oct-2002, 03:55
Oh, ok. I thought that would be fairly obvious, but hey...
Steve Dave Part Deux
12-Oct-2002, 05:07
It's fairly under-handed as well.
Mr. Angry Pants
12-Oct-2002, 09:01
Under-handed? Er, again, I don't follow you. How is price cutting under handed? It's an integral part of almost any retail strategy.
Exactly. And if Microsoft chooses to price themselves out of the market, then another competitor will come along and steal their sales.
Enjoy it while it lasts. Once Microsoft establishes themselves you can kiss this "competitive pricing" goodbye.
of course. The difference is that we are dealing with a market where you are not forced to buy products for compatibility reasons like the PC market. Sales have already shown that the public is not buying the cheapest product (see DC or even GC), but the product they think will have the best support/life span.
Microsoft will not win by lowering its price every month like they do but by releasing product tht appeal to the masses (the problem is not even to have good products or not).
So is this actually an official U.K price drop to £129 for XBox or just a few shops selling them cheap?
Steve Dave Part Deux
12-Oct-2002, 18:08
I think most people either buy what their friends have, or buy whichever system has a specific game they are particularly fond of.
Mech- I think you're underestimating how difficult a market this is to break into. There aren't even a handful of companies who would even consider dropping the kind of money that Microsoft has to make Xbox a success, and even fewer with the media ties to compete with Sony. I don't see anyone coming into the console market unless they're riding on the back of a major software house.
So is this actually an official U.K price drop to £129 for XBox or just a few shops selling them cheap?
Come on Teasy. :roll:
The official price hasn't changed -- do you not know how to look for press releases or what?
There are different promotional efforts going on in all the regions. Like in North America, you basically get a free DVD Playback Kit now (with rebate) when you buy an Xbox up through Nov 1st, plus the upcoming Sega kit (which is mostly to get rid of an overstock of the games I believe), etc are all promotional offers.
Ok, I might be ignorant for not knowing, but what is this Sega Kit thing? :)
Ok, I might be ignorant for not knowing, but what is this Sega Kit thing? :)
http://www.gamepro.com/index.html?/microsoft/xbox/games/news/26580.shtml
"The new bundle, which launches in some stores as early as October 15, will include your basic Xbox console, one Controller S (that's right, an S—not that regular big honker), and a disc containing the full versions of Jet Set Radio Future and Sega GT 2002. All this for a mere $199.99."
Is this still a rumor or has there been an official press release?
I played the demo of Sega GT 2002 on the current XBM DVD and I didn't like it. I think it would be a better bundle if they put Gunvalkyrie in there instead of Sega GT.
edit: If you're in the US, it's pretty incredible how many games and other hardware are available for really cheap. AnandTech forums has a thread listing them all, updating the deals on an ongoing basis. I've bought 4 games that I wanted, each for under $20. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=851314
Mr. Angry Pants
13-Oct-2002, 07:37
Sega GT demo is poor compared to the final product.
SegaGT is far better than Gunvalkyrie.
Gunvalkyrie is fun at first and gets worse as the game progresses.
SegaGT is the exact opposite. It has a boringish beginning (which is why the Demo sucks), but once you get into it with some sweet cars and sweet parts and a garage full of choices, it becomes way more fun.
DVFtaxman
13-Oct-2002, 12:55
I'm told that both SEGA games will be on a single DVD which would mean that it isn't just M$ trying to get rid of an overstock of games and would also help prevent them from being saleable through retail outlets.
Glonk, what is your problem? That was a perfectly innocent question and somehow you seem to have managed to take offence to it... if anyone should be using :roll: it should be me.
Because you kept asking the same question -- it smelled like a troll to me.
I asked the question twice in total, the first time I got no answer so I asked again 4 hours later. What is out of the ordinary with re-asking a question that you don't get an answer to?
Please re-read my posts, and look for one single indication that my questions were anything but innocent questions. In fact the point to my post was that if this is not an official price drop then no XBox is not the same price as GameCube in the U.K because GameCube's can be found under there official recomended prices to.
Your first post to me seems to be based on some over-sensativity and allot of prosumption AFAICS.
Well, seeing as everyone knows you have zero interest in buying an Xbox, and have zero interest in the financial well-being of those who have bought it, it just seems a bit suspicious that you're so eager to get an answer to your question that you ask multiple times instead of going to the website and checking for press releases.
You've got quite the reputation, and it looked like you were looking for more ammo.
Just what it looks like to me.
I don't need to currently have any interest in owning an XBox to be interested in this sort of thing. I like to keep up with things in the console industry wether they directly pertain to me or not. I did not look for a press release because I didn't need to at that point, I had a thread right there discusing it.
Plus even if a press release wasn't out that I could find this could have been a case of shops dropping prices before any official price drop from MS.. which is why I asked in this thread for confirmation of wether this was a real price drop or just a few stores dropping prices.
I find it sort of silly that your still defending your total overeaction rather then just saying, ok my mistake. I posted:
So is this another XBox price drop?! Or is this £129 deal only at some stores?
and
So is this actually an official U.K price drop to £129 for XBox or just a few shops selling them cheap?
Do you see a winking smillie?.. or any other thing that suggested I was trying to wind anyone up?, no.
Yet you accuse me of trolling based on that and then can't even admit your mistake, you really have no class at all mate.
I don't need to have any class, I'm Canadian. :D
And Teasy, your first sentence in the first post there seems like it was intended to wind people up.
"So is this another XBox price drop?!" Maybe you didn't intend it like that, but it looked like you were getting ready for a nice big fat troll about how MS is screwing customers over by dropping prices.
When you asked again when everyone ignored you (probably thinking the same thing I was, in fact), I just had to say something.
If that wasn't your intent, I apologize, but it sure as hell looked like it was. (BTW, read my wording carefully, I never said you were trolling -- I said it only looked like you were from my POV)
And Teasy, your first sentence in the first post there seems like it was intended to wind people up.
"So is this another XBox price drop?!"
A simple question of, "is this another XBox price drop", looks like a windup? Honestly I don't see anything there to suggest any windup. You can't simply assume anything I say is a windup. I think I've shown in the past that when I'm winding someone up I make it pretty clear.
If your talking about the ! at the end, well that is there because I was quite suprised to even hear anything about a price drop considering XBox only just dropped in price recently in the U.K. That's also why I added "or is this just a offer from certain stores" because I saw it as unlikely that it was a real price drop.
When you asked again when everyone ignored you (probably thinking the same thing I was, in fact), I just had to say something.
Considering how much of a stretch it was to consider a simple question as a windup I very much doubt anyone else actually thought it was.
Sometimes small posts like that get missed and that's why I posted again.
If that wasn't your intent, I apologize
Ok, no problem, lets just forget about it then :)
I think most people either buy what their friends have, or buy whichever system has a specific game they are particularly fond of.
Mech- I think you're underestimating how difficult a market this is to break into. There aren't even a handful of companies who would even consider dropping the kind of money that Microsoft has to make Xbox a success, and even fewer with the media ties to compete with Sony. I don't see anyone coming into the console market unless they're riding on the back of a major software house.
My point is we do have competing hardware companies though - Sony and Nintendo.
And as has been shown over the last 20 years, there are always upstarts that are willing to challenge the big guns. Who knows, Sega may come back into the market?
But it's not like Sony's going anywhere, so what's the problem?
The other thing is, if they price themselves out of the market, people just won't buy it - because they don't have to. I think you're overreacting a little.
The bundle was finally announced officially. I saw it on the front page at www.news.com .
Steve Dave Part Deux
14-Oct-2002, 19:40
I usually do.
Mr. Angry Pants
14-Oct-2002, 20:04
Marconelly, Zurich, and now Glonk. Somebody call the Orkin Man--we've got CANADIANS!!
Hey, we're raising the rest of the worlds opinion of this board by being here :D (kind of like North America)
zurich
marconelly!
14-Oct-2002, 21:09
Marconelly, Zurich, and now Glonk. Somebody call the Orkin Man--we've got CANADIANS!!
I'm not really a Canadian. I just happened to live here for the last three years :)
Mr. Angry Pants
14-Oct-2002, 22:33
TRAITOR! You have slept with the seductress of Universal Healthcare. You'll burn in hell for this!
Zurich, I'd like to see America and Canada trade places as the last remaining super power and 'the friendly guy next door' for a decade or two. See how you like it.
If I did that, then I couldnt afford University, so thanks but no thanks :)
zurich
Mr. Angry Pants
15-Oct-2002, 05:35
That, my friend, is why God created benefits for serving in the military. 8)
And honestly, people, you talk as if we have no social programs what so ever. If you do well in school you'll be showered with grants and scholarships. Simple as that.
I don't think you realize how afordable it is to go to University in Canada. A years tuition alone is about $4200 CDN (~$2000 USD). Now, unless you're the second coming of Bill Gates or Michael Jordon, I dont think any scholarships can beat that. As if Canadian tuition wasnt low already, there's a zillion grants and such on top of that you can apply for to lower the already pidly cost further.
For international tuition (ie: non-Canadian citizens), you're looking at about $10k CDN (~$6000 USD). Its no wonder why half of my year at UWaterloo came from Hong Kong, China, and Taiwan :P
zurich
I've lived in both California and Canada, and Canada currently.
I pay ~$4500 Canadian/year in tuition, and about 75% of that is covered by government scholarships.
Life is good as a student in the Empire of Canadia. ;)
Mr. Angry Pants
15-Oct-2002, 06:11
Well, what colleges are you attending? Tuition for most State colleges here in the US is--that's right--$2000 a year if you're a resident.
If you're a half decent student it is not hard to get a college education in the US. We have such a glut of college grads here that it's extremely hard to find a job even if you can wave a bachelors in an interviewer's face. That's why I'm opting for military service.
Steve Dave Part Deux
15-Oct-2002, 21:28
Even the mediocre university I attend runs me over $2000 a semester, and it's one of the least expensive schools in the country. My tuition just went up 40% from last year due to our corporate lacky Republican legislature who opted to remove a business equipment tax that left the state with a 300 million dollar budget shortfall and led to slashes in spending for higher education. Which propmpted the University to add surchages per credit hour onto tuition expenses.
There isn't a school in the entire USA that costs $2000 a year. ZERO, NADA. Canada has a much better system. America is run by financiers and corporate lawyers.
Mr. Angry Pants
15-Oct-2002, 22:35
Florida State -- $2000 tuition for state residents, unless my memory is completely whacked. If it is then it's not much higher. No more than $4000.
And attending college in Canada is anything but cheap. Canadian citizens will continue to pay for their college education for the rest of their lives in the form of taxes. They have no choice unless they move out of the country altogether. Americans, on the other hand, can choose what loans to take, and can try for various grants and scholarships. I'm sure Canadians have access to such things as well, but regardless of how they finance their own education they still have to pay for everyone else's through taxes.
This is how the grand socialist machine works, my friends. Do you think your government pulls all of the money for education out of a magic hat?
I sort of agree with you, Mr. Angry Pants. I was born and raised in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada. :)
But I think you're leaving some wholes in your argument. First, you talk about how the State universities are subsidized, then you criticize how Canada's are subsidized saying how taxpayers will be paying for it for the rest of their lives.
Both US State colleges and Canadian public universities are subsidized, it's just that Canada puts lots of money into the educational systems instead of into building up a beefy military like the US does. After all, Canada doesn't need a military when we mooch off the US, do we? :)
I did find one article on FSU's tuition: http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/3589840.htm
They are the third lowest in the country (behind Arizona and Nevada), but it was about average for a high-ranking public Canadian university: $2,348US/year.
Johnny Awesome
16-Oct-2002, 01:15
I hate to say it guys, but most of your "facts" about Canada are wrong.
I'm Canadian, and a thorough analysis of the situation reveals that the U.S. spends more money per capita on education, health care, and social programs than Canadians do. It's one of those made in Canada myths about Americans that float about. Americans also give more to charity than Canadians ($933 per year on average vs. $233).
When you figure in exchange, the added costs of American health care coverage and so on, the U.S. citizen is 26% better off than Canadian citizens. Canadians are falling behind.
The reason? Stagnant Canadian productivity growth over the last decade.
What is being done about it? - Nothing.
Why? Because most of us Canadians spend more time criticizing Americans for the way they were 15 years ago than doing something to catch up.
Self righteous anti-Americanism isn't going to solve the Canadian problem. The Europeans could use a little dose of reality as well.
Johnny: The costs comparison is a bit silly. The reason why they spend more on health is simply because it's a private system. Compare how much it costs for a stay in the hospital in the US for a night compared to Canada -- the US is literally many times higher in terms of cost.
And for education, I haven't seen any studies like that but I'd assume colleges like MIT and Princeton and Harvard would kinda of set the average up a bit high...wouldn't you think.
Likewise with the donation numbers -- how many billions of dollars has Bill Gates "donated"?
Averages like that are easily skewed.
Whoa, this got way off topic... :wink:
State university rates in California for the coming year:
CSUN, ~$1900 a year (2 semesters) tuition for residents
http://www.csun.edu/finaid/cost_attendance.html
UCLA, ~$4500 a year (3 quarters) tuition for residents, including $750 for health insurance
http://www.gdnet.ucla.edu/gasaa/admissions/expenses.htm
That's pretty cheap.
I think people are missing the point that sure, State Universities may be cheap, but Canada's top schools (Queen's, McGill, UWaterloo, UToronto) are easily on par with some of America's Ivys, while costing a fraction of that. Take UToronto's Law School for example; for years analysts have put it on par with Harvard's, and recently the University appealed to the Province (and won) to deregulate its tuition because of this. Same goes for Queen's accounting program.
Right now Canada's post-secondary education system rocks, but everyone knows that the top schools like Queen's, McGill, UWaterloo, and UToronto are going to deregulate entirely and create a "private", top-tier education system, like in the US. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Johnny,
I think those numbers are pretty skewed, especially since anyone with a decent skill set in Canada has jumped ship south for the Greenback. The infamous "i" word is whats been keeping our country running. Don't you live in Windsor? Hell, you ARE American ;)
zurich
Johnny Awesome
16-Oct-2002, 03:15
The refusal of most Canadians to accept the facts - that the Americans are ahead of us in practically all areas, is the reason why we are sleepwalking towards irrelevance.
It's funny that your rebutals revolve around disbelieving the facts I've presented. I probably shouldn't have bothered trying to make these political points here anyway.
PS: Windsor IS very close to the US, which is probably why some of us down here aren't smoking the same delusion that people in Toronto are, where anti-American bigotry is cheered and Canadian arrogance is at its worst.
Johnny,
I've seen the numbers. Hell, my entire Econ class is an American drum banging seminar.
However, Canada is in a unique situation. The one area where we hands down excel at is worker knowledge base, due to our excellent post secondary education system. Now, the productivity problems are simple; brain drain. You've read about it in the National Post ad nauseum - all our grads are going south. What is our Government doing about it? Widening the immigration gates even further for people to take thier place. Our chartered banks are going mental trying to lure would-be entrepreneurs to try and keep our workers here, but who knows if thats going to work.
Its an unfortunate reality that students (from all over the world) come to our schools and receive an excellent education for bargain prices, then go back to whence they came, thus enriching their own country. I've been very, very, very irritated by this for some time.
There's no doubt that Canada is on a decline, but its not nearly at the point of ruin yet (isnt the NP saying our Economy is running circles around the USs atm?I). Rather, all the signs for ruin are clearly there, its only a matter of time. Hopefully the Paul Martin will fix all :D
zurich
ps: 'scuse me if I live in the UNs Greatest City in the World!
Seeing as I have dual citizenship and probably spent more time in the US than Johnny has, I'm not sure where he's going with his outrageous generalizations. :wink:
Steve Dave Part Deux
16-Oct-2002, 04:50
I stand corrected, but I'm not sure that it's reasonable to account for residency since we're talking about the population at large. Not suprising that these schools are in California, though.
Mr. Angry Pants
16-Oct-2002, 06:15
I sort of agree with you, Mr. Angry Pants. I was born and raised in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada. :)
But I think you're leaving some wholes in your argument. First, you talk about how the State universities are subsidized, then you criticize how Canada's are subsidized saying how taxpayers will be paying for it for the rest of their lives.
Yowch! That completely slipped my mind. Good point. Subsidizing education is quite possibly the single biggest problem facing a majority of the states, since the Federal government won't touch it with a twelve foot pole.
IMHO, the American public school system is an 18 car pile up of inept managment and a host of other problems, but that's something for another thread in a different forum. ;) (as if we haven't gone way out on a tangent already :P)
As John pointed out, while Americans typically never associate ourselves with socialism our government pumps hundreds of billions of dollars into social programs. The only major difference between our two countries in that regard is Universal Healthcare, or lack there of. Which is a good thing, because it's pile-driving Japan into bankruptcy, and it'll likely do the same to Canada in the next couple of decades as the number of elderly people grows.
As for the way Canadians view Americans... As John also pointed out, I wish you all would stop quoting figures from UN reports over a decade old. Things change.
I agree. Canada's nationalizm isn't so much nationalizm as it is "we're not Americans".
Too many Canadians get caught up in doing something just because the US isn't, or develop an inferiority complex about it.
One thing Canada does better, IMO, is education.
One thing Canada doesn't do better (I'll probably be slammed for this by Canadians) is the healthcare.
I just waited about 2 hours at a stupid clinic for a blood test this week, and when I lived in California they just DID the thing when I got there.
marconelly!
16-Oct-2002, 06:53
Too many Canadians get caught up in doing something just because the US isn't, or develop an inferiority complex about it.
I live in canada for just few years, but I already can tell that only the most zealous people here even care about what the US is doing or not. And I don't really see people doing something that USA isn't, whatever is that supposed to mean :\
as the number of elderly people grows.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would number of old people grow? I mean, it's not like people will start dying less than usual all of a sudden, and it's not like average life span will increase.
I just waited about 2 hours at a stupid clinic for a blood test this week
I have no idea where you live, but I never had to wait more than a 10 minutes or so for any test I had to go to, and most of the time there was no waiting at all. That includes blood tests, x-ray, etc. It may be just your bad luck.
Canadian Nationalism?!?! HAHA that's funny :D :D :D
I don't think any citizenry puts their country down more than Canadians do! The sole exception is when it comes to the US - we like to point out how we're _not_ like the American stereotype :D (ie: we're Americans, but not really..)
And as for the UN rankings being a decade old, if I remember correctly Canada got #1 in 1998, 1999, and 2000, with 2001 going to Finland. The UN site is an absolute mess (their search server is down, heh), so if someone has the patience feel free to enlighten us.
zurich
Steve Dave Part Deux
16-Oct-2002, 07:58
The government puts 10x as much money into corporate bank accounts as goes to social programs. Any social programs that are still functioning have been crippled by conservative efforts to turn every aspect of our lives into a money-making oppourtunity for themselves. Don't fool yourself pal, big-business IS the government. Who do you think drafts 90% of the legislation introduced in the HOR? Why do corporations get hundreds of millions in tax-refunds when they never paid a cent in the first place? Why are corporations protected as if they were individuals by the constitution? Why are non-citizens not protected by the constitution?
Mr. Angry Pants
16-Oct-2002, 11:46
Canadian Nationalism?!?! HAHA that's funny :D :D :D
Heh, in my experience Canadians are some of the most nationalistic people I've ever met. It's just a different kind of nationalism.
For example:
American nationalism is "We're better than everyone!"
Canadian nationalism is "We're better than America!" :wink:
Johnny Awesome
16-Oct-2002, 15:14
The UN is irrelevant. Quoting UN studies is ridiculous as there is often some other multi-lateralist agenda going on, usually anti-American as well.
Corporate taxes should be abolished. It's double taxation.
While the brain drain is a problem, it's not the biggest one. The innability of Canadian companies to adapt to changing technology is the number one productivity drag.
The Canadian education system is only average. By German or Japanese standards it's a joke. It's on par with the American system (better in some areas and worse in others).
The waiting time in the health care system in Canada is almost to crisis-level proportions. Forget all the anecdotal evidence, the studies prove it.
PS: Paul Martin would be a horrible Prime Minister, if the last decade is anything to go by.
The Canadian education system is only average. By German or Japanese standards it's a joke. It's on par with the American system (better in some areas and worse in others).
How do you figure? Are you talking about how it's basically completely free for Germans to go to university?
Aside from that my friend (who went up through Grade 9 in Germany) said he was surprised how similar the two schooling systems were aside from the trivial stuff like what high school is, etc.
Mark Cicero
16-Oct-2002, 15:51
There's more to Canadian nationalism than American bashing: Tim Horton's coffee and donuts, hockey, and bashing the federal government for doing nothing.
Get with the program people. :lol:
marconelly!
16-Oct-2002, 16:11
I could never understand people who hate the country they live in, yet they won't move away from it. Honestly Johnny, if you like USA that much (it's OK I don't care either way) why don't you just move and live there? It's not like it's that difficult for Canadian citizens to do that, and I know several who did it (found better job, etc)
The Canadian education system is only average. By German or Japanese standards it's a joke. It's on par with the American system (better in some areas and worse in others).
Nope. My two best friends at UWaterloo came from Germany (Munster and Munich). The reason why he came all the way across the Atlantic is because the post-secondary system in Germany is ass (Compared to Canadas atleast).
Sure, tuition in Germany is free, but you basically have no choice in what school you attend. That is, you go to the University in your town. If you're lucky and live in Berlin or something, score. If not, you're out of luck. And on top of that, there isnt an even distribution of funding across all the schools either.
Germany also employs a streaming program where around Grade 7 or so, its basically decided if you'll be a Doctor, Engineer, Artist, etc. This is slowly being phased out, but it still permeates the majority of the German education system.
zurich
Johnny Awesome
17-Oct-2002, 03:10
Listen, everyone has a story about a friend, or someone they know, and so on... The statistical evidence and test scores are the objective measure that proves my point. Forgive me if I place more weight on rigorous international education surveys and test scores than on statements about people you know.
I don't hate Canada, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize it. The only way Canada will improve is by pointing out its shortcomings. Canadians should be able to display some maturity regarding these matters.
I don't mind if other Canadians disagree with me, but to call me un-Canadian or unpatriotic because I find fault with many aspects of our society is absolutely absurd, but all too common.
PS: I do find it ironic that people are complaining about the "brain drain" in this thread and then turning around and telling me that I should move to the US. I spend 50-60 hours per week running a manufacturing company, creating Canadian jobs, and improving productivity, and plan on doing this for a long while yet...
Forgive me if I place more weight on rigorous international education surveys and test scores than on statements about people you know.
Unless you want to link to them, your stories aren't any better than people with "friends" stories.
Last time I checked Canada placed near the top of IB scores. Maybe it's changed? I don't know, I haven't kept up to date on it, but it shouldn't have changed too much in the past couple of years...
Getting back on topic...
GC AND XBOX SLUG IT OUT IN UK SALES WAR
The latest UK hardware figures show that in spite of the release of Mario Sunshine, GameCube has failed to pull clear of Microsoft's console
15:03 With Super Mario Sunshine having enjoyed its first full week on sale, GameCube has managed to stay just ahead of Xbox in unit sales, while PS2 remains untroubled in the number one slot.
GameCube sales rose to 6,104 last week, rising from 5,860 previously, with Xbox also rising to 6,083 from 5,591 units. GBA clocked in at 8,540, up from 8,145, while PS2 sales fell slightly from 22,235 to 21,225 units. The figures are for the week ending Saturday, October 12.
Though GameCube has narrowly beaten Xbox for the second week running, as Microsoft and Nintendo fight it out for runners-up spot, many expected Nintendo to pull clear following the release of its pivotal triple-AAA release, Super Mario Sunshine.
Nintendo will have been banking on its plucky plumber to spearhead a huge surge in sales but, only a week on, this has not been the case with Xbox actually narrowing the gap with both registering a weekly increase in unit sales.
Furthermore, Hitman 2 is now the official number one in the UK all-formats chart, knocking Mario Sunshine from the top spot after just one week, compounding Nintendo's concern. And with UK retailers like Argos now selling Xbox for less than £130, we've certainly got one hell of a fight on our hands this Christmas.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=81926
I thought that Xbox was much further behind the GC than that, but it seems not. Interesting to see Mario not pulling his expected weight. Again, IMO I think his place is in a bundle, not as a stand alone title. Nintendo seems to think so too ;)
I'm eager to see what the kickass Xbox bundles will do for hardware sales this Christmas! If anything, it might hinder current software sales as consumers(parents) may avoid buying additional titles since they're getting two free...
zurich
StefanS
17-Oct-2002, 06:00
Sure, tuition in Germany is free, but you basically have no choice in what school you attend. That is, you go to the University in your town. If you're lucky and live in Berlin or something, score. If not, you're out of luck. And on top of that, there isnt an even distribution of funding across all the schools either.
Germany also employs a streaming program where around Grade 7 or so, its basically decided if you'll be a Doctor, Engineer, Artist, etc. This is slowly being phased out, but it still permeates the majority of the German education system.
This is just plain wrong. :roll:
Mr. Angry Pants
17-Oct-2002, 07:09
AHA! Hupfinsgack is the German I was thinking of! A winner is me!
Mr. Angry Pants
17-Oct-2002, 07:19
I thought that Xbox was much further behind the GC than that, but it seems not. Interesting to see Mario not pulling his expected weight. Again, IMO I think his place is in a bundle, not as a stand alone title. Nintendo seems to think so too ;)
zurich
Not surprised in the least. From my job at Babbages (aka Gamestop) to internet forums I did not know a single person who wanted Mario but did not already own a Gamecube.
I remember the zealots at GA predicting a 450,000 unit boost in hardware sales in the US alone when Mario launched. :lol:
This is a momentum based industry and no single game or bundeling scheme (whether its for the Gamecube or the Xbox) is going to quadruple hardware sales by itself. Not even GTA3 did that.
StefanS
17-Oct-2002, 08:04
AHA! Hupfinsgack is the German I was thinking of! A winner is me!
Hupfinsgack isn't German, he's actually from Austria. But that's near enough to know that Zurich didn't know what he was talking about.
Not surprised in the least. From my job at Babbages (aka Gamestop) to internet forums I did not know a single person who wanted Mario but did not already own a Gamecube.
Well now you can say you know one :)
Mr. Angry Pants
17-Oct-2002, 11:16
<nods> Got it. Thanks.
/people who baught a Gamecube at Mario Launch +1 :)
Mr. Angry Pants
17-Oct-2002, 11:17
Hupfinsgack isn't German, he's actually from Austria.
Damnit! I can't win! :cry:
marconelly!
17-Oct-2002, 15:09
This is a momentum based industry and no single game or bundeling scheme (whether its for the Gamecube or the Xbox) is going to quadruple hardware sales by itself.
That is very true. I always laugh when people think that this-or-that game will make ultra-surge in their favorite console sales. That just never happens. At least not anymore.
Btw, do you just lurk at GA or do you actually post there?
marconelly!
17-Oct-2002, 16:17
I thought that Xbox was much further behind the GC than that, but it seems not.
Take a look at this, it's for whole Europe, not just UK.
http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=13160
Global shipments of advanced games consoles will reach 41.9m units in 2002, an increase of 84 per cent over the 2001 level, according to a new report from Strategy Analytics.
Sony’s PlayStation 2 (PS2) console is expected to account for 63 per cent of sales, followed by Nintendo’s GameCube with 21 per cent and Microsoft’s XBox with 16 per cent.
The research highlights the domination of the Sony system. By the end of this year, 72 per cent of global cumulative shipments will be PS2 systems, compared to 16 per cent GameCube and 12 percent XBox.
Tagrineth
17-Oct-2002, 16:22
The SMS+GCN bundle is out, by the way. :)
Mr. Angry Pants
17-Oct-2002, 22:56
That thing's a bloody rip-off. :-?
Edit: Comparatively speaking.
Hupfinsgack isn't German, he's actually from Austria. But that's near enough to know that Zurich didn't know what he was talking about.
If you say so. From my textbook: (excuse the typos, my head was in a book)
Das deutsche Schulsystem
Germany and Switzerland have similar public school systems that are centrally administered, in Germany by each Ministry of Education and the ARts (das Kultusministerium) and by the individual Cantonal Ministries in Switzerland. The Federal Ministry of Education in Austria overseess educational policy there. These ministries initiate the educational curricula that schools will follow. This guarantees greater educational uniformity.
In Germany eighty percent of all three-to seix-year olds attend a private pre-school (der Kindergarten). Thereafter, children enter the public school system (or a private school), where they attend primary school (die Grundshule) through the fourth grade. In the third and fourth grades teachers asses each pupil's abilities and then recommend tha tthey attend die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium. During the fifth and sixth grades, called die Orientierungsstufe, students can change their minds and switch toa more appropriate school. All German students are required by law to attend school at least on a part time basis through the age of 18 (die Schulpflicht).
Roughly one third of all German students are Haptschuler. They attend school through the 9th grade, and, thereafter enter the workforce as an apprentice (der Lehrling or der/die Auszubildende), continuing with part time classroom work for three more years.
Another one-third of all German students attend die Realschule. Realschuler follow a middle-track educational path with a more demanding academic program that concludes with examinations at the end of the 10th grade. An intermediate diploma (die Mittlere Reife) is awarded upon successful completion of their training. This diploma qualifies students to attend specialized training colleges (eg die Fachschule or die Fachoberschule) and recieve training in areas such as engineer, administration, and business. In Austria, this type of school does not exist.
Gymnasiasten, making up the final third of German high school students, pursue the tradional college prepatory track that continues through the 13th grade. They usually take courses in German, math, chemistry, physcis, biology, English, a second foreign language, social studies, sports, and the arts. In the 11th through 13th grades, students choose two major areas of academic specialization for their Leistungskurse and several minor subjects for their Grundkurse. Before graduating from a Gymnasium, students must have completed coursework in atleast nine subjects. The two major subjects tested in depth when students face the complrehensive exams required for graduation. With this diploma (der Abschluss), the student is qualified to attend a university or any other post-secondary educational institution, such as a Musikhochschule, Kunsthochschule, or a Fachhochschule specialiing in engineering or the sciences.
A fourth type of German school, die Gesamtschule, modeled on the complrehensive American high school, was a product of the reform movement of the 1960s. It incorporates the curricula of all three traditional German secondary schooles, giving students a broad choice of programs and courses. While hailed by some as a more progressive and democratic schools, Gesamtschulen have been criticized by others for loweing standards. They remain controversial but are growing in number.
Berufswahl und Berunfsausbildung in deutschprachigen Landern
Students in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland are trained in a profession that they willl most likely have for life. Occupational choices come early in school. During the third and fourth grades in Germany, parents and teachers decide if students will go to die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium.
German businesses, government, and schools collaborate closely to provice thourough vocational and academic training for Hayptschuler, who will learn manual trades, or for Realschuler, who seek administrative poisitions. This close collaboration ensures a skilled workforce and streamlines the vocational education that the students receive.
In an on the job apprenticeship an apprentice from the Hauptschule learns his or her trade in three years. Only about one third of all apprentices get placed in their firce choice of fields, while many others must peruse careers in new fields. During this time apprentices are paid a trainee wage that increases annually. They must also attend academic classes at a school one or two days a week. There they take courses in their speciality along with courses in German, history, economics, and other subjects. The training ends when the apprentice passes an exam given by a board of teachers, employer trainers, and representatives f the approriate trade guide.
Students who are interested in technical professions or careers in buiness, administration, or civil service attend die Realschule for six years and participate in short term internships (die Praktikantenstellen). Upon passing die Mittlere Reife at the end of the 10th grade, these students may start an apprenticehsip in areas such as banking, business, or office administration or attend a technical college (die Fachschule) or a special school.
Das deutsche Universitatssystem
The German system of higher education, respected and emulated around the world, is undergoing change as more and more Gymnasium graduates try to go on to study at universities. To limit the number of students, the universities have established maximum enrollments (Numerus clausus) in many subject areas. Students interested in these subjects submit credentials to a central clearing-house, die Zentralstelle fur die Vergabe von Studentienplatzen (ZVS) in Dormund, which assesses the student's academic record and length of time spent waiting for admission, along with tests and interviews. The student then may get a 'space', that is, admission to student at a particular subject at an institution chosen by ZVS, or the student is directed to another subject area. The requirements for getting a Studienplatz by the ZVS are particularly high for subjects suc as medicine, economics, law, and computer science.
Sorry for the long post, but for anyone who read it, you're now definitive experts on Germanys school system :P
How this relates to my two friends?
Well Stephen Beckermann from Munster was pushed into Engineering at Munster UNiversity (which isnt even in the top 35 for any catagories, Politik, Mathematik, ANglistik, Biologie, Padagogik, Okonomie, and CHemie). As a result, he jumped ship to UWaterloo for Mech Eng, one of the top Engineering schools in North America.
Jenny Nachschem on the other hand was going into Dentistry in Mannheim (ranked 8th overall), but had a change of heart and wanted to study Drama (dont ask). It was kind of too late for that, so with her dual citizenship she came to Canada.
There, Österreichmeister.
zurich
StefanS
18-Oct-2002, 06:52
Well, Zurich you're textbook seems to be fairly old and not very accurate. I hope you're not po'ed if I answer by line by line.
In Germany eighty percent of all three-to seix-year olds attend a private pre-school (der Kindergarten). Thereafter, children enter the public school system (or a private school), where they attend primary school (die Grundshule) through the fourth grade. In the third and fourth grades teachers asses each pupil's abilities and then recommend tha tthey attend die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium. During the fifth and sixth grades, called die Orientierungsstufe, students can change their minds and switch to a more appropriate school.
The teacher can only issue a guide line for the parents, nothing more. The pupils are still free to decide where they want to go. The problem Austria / Germany have is a very strong increase in the gymnasia & realschulen while the numbers of enrollment in the hauptschulen decreases. There's quite a discussion about that because some argue that this deteriorates the gymnasia / realschulen.
All German students are required by law to attend school at least on a part time basis through the age of 18 (die Schulpflicht).
I am fairly sure that it is the same as in Austria. Schulpflicht ends at 15. Tough you usually have education till 18.
Gymnasiasten, making up the final third of German high school students, pursue the tradional college prepatory track that continues through the 13th grade. They usually take courses in German, math, chemistry, physcis, biology, English, a second foreign language, social studies, sports, and the arts.
Yes, there's virtually no specialization till 13th grade, although there're special gymnasia (e.g.: music gymnasia etc.). BTW, don't forget Latin. :lol:
a Fachhochschule specialiing in engineering or the sciences.
That was pretty funny. Fachhochschulen don't pursue any scientific research, except processes for the industry. It is more like fast track education which is between abitur and university diploma. That is also resembled by its system. Fachhochschulen are quite like school, fixed schedules and you have to attend courses, etc. Quite different from University.
A fourth type of German school, die Gesamtschule, modeled on the complrehensive American high school, was a product of the reform movement of the 1960s. It incorporates the curricula of all three traditional German secondary schooles, giving students a broad choice of programs and courses. While hailed by some as a more progressive and democratic schools, Gesamtschulen have been criticized by others for loweing standards. They remain controversial but are growing in number.
Actually they're almost non-existant.
Students in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland are trained in a profession that they willl most likely have for life. Occupational choices come early in school.
Not true any more.
During the third and fourth grades in Germany, parents and teachers decide if students will go to die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium.
See above.
German businesses, government, and schools collaborate closely to provice thourough vocational and academic training for Hayptschuler, who will learn manual trades, or for Realschuler, who seek administrative poisitions. This close collaboration ensures a skilled workforce and streamlines the vocational education that the students receive.
To be exact that's not entirely true. E.g.: it is possible for Lehrling to attend a fachhochschule without a problem. Or it is even possible for everyone to go to universities if they take an admission exam (Studienzulassungsprüfung).
Das deutsche Universitatssystem
The German system of higher education, respected and emulated around the world, is undergoing change as more and more Gymnasium graduates try to go on to study at universities. To limit the number of students, the universities have established maximum enrollments (Numerus clausus) in many subject areas. Students interested in these subjects submit credentials to a central clearing-house, die Zentralstelle fur die Vergabe von Studentienplatzen (ZVS) in Dormund, which assesses the student's academic record and length of time spent waiting for admission, along with tests and interviews. The student then may get a 'space', that is, admission to student at a particular subject at an institution chosen by ZVS, or the student is directed to another subject area. The requirements for getting a Studienplatz by the ZVS are particularly high for subjects suc as medicine, economics, law, and computer science.
The thing is that you can wait until you get a place at the university you've chosen. Or you have the needed grades to go to the university you want to. Or as your friends did, go somewhere else to study.
BTW, there's no numerus clausus in Austria.
Sorry for the long post, but for anyone who read it, you're now definitive experts on Germanys school system :P
Actually I think a lot of people would have wanted to know facts like that:
In some German federal states you pay a tuition fee if take too long for your study.
In Austria there's a tuition fee since last year. ~390 $ per semester.
Those are just some facts that you have left out. But I don't blame you for it. It is just easier for me to get informed (German television, etc.)
Jenny Nachschem on the other hand was going into Dentistry in Mannheim (ranked 8th overall), but had a change of heart and wanted to study Drama (dont ask). It was kind of too late for that, so with her dual citizenship she came to Canada.
Actually I think there're deadlines in Canada, too. If she was too late, it's her fault not anybody else's. She just missed the enrollment deadline.
There, Österreichmeister.
You know, Lord supreme master Austria is sufficient. :wink:
Long Post, long answer. :lol:
Thats for the heads up, its interesting to know that my $100 copy of 'Vorsprung' German textbook is inaccurate :P
And btw, there's no deadline for enrollment or whatever in Canada, and I expect the states. If I finished highschool and decided to go into Computer Engineering, applied, and was accepted, I would have up until a week or so until classes started to change programs / universities entirely.
Although with Double Chohort... :P (Ontario axed Grade 13, meaning that next fall, double the number of students will be entering post-secondary [Grade 12 and formally 13]). Its quite the controversy here :D
zurich
StefanS
18-Oct-2002, 15:07
Thats for the heads up, its interesting to know that my $100 copy of 'Vorsprung' German textbook is inaccurate :P
Well, in Austria the University laws are changed every 2-3 years, in Germany things won't be very much different. Now your text book definitely had to be written and tested, etc. So it's not uptodate with the latest changes, such as fees for too long studying, etc.
And btw, there's no deadline for enrollment or whatever in Canada, and I expect the states. If I finished highschool and decided to go into Computer Engineering, applied, and was accepted, I would have up until a week or so until classes started to change programs / universities entirely.
That's nice. I have always been lazy and stressing myself to make a deadline just shortens my life exspectancy. :wink:
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