3 m PSP's already sold worldwide according to sony [Archive]

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hey69

03-May-2005, 09:15

Sony Logs Decreased Sales and Income in Electronics, but Aided by Favorable Picture Business
Apr 28, 2005 15:47

Sony Corp. has released its FY2004 (April 2004-March 2005) consolidated financial results. The results largely met forecasts that were revised downwards in January 2005, with sales declining 4.5% year-on-year (YoY) to ¥7.1596 trillion but with operating income growing 15.2% YoY to ¥113.9 billion. Impacted by decreased sales of CRT TVs and portable audio players, sales of electronics products dropped 0.4% YoY to ¥5.0216 trillion. Operating loss for this segment expanded to ¥34.3 billion, compared to ¥6.8 billion posted for FY2003, reflecting lower pricing for products such as DVD recorders and video cameras.

Game related sales declined 6.5% YoY to ¥729.8 billion, and operating income for this area also decreased 36.1% YoY to ¥43.2 billion. Key factors behind these drops in both sales and operating income include decreased unit sales of the PlayStation2 home game console, as well as price reductions. The market release of the PlayStation Portable (PSP) in December 2004 had little impact on FY2004 results. Sony revealed that PSP shipments were 2.97 million units as of the end of March 2005. Of the 2.97 million units, the Japanese market accounted for 1.44 million units and the US market constituted 1.53 million units.
Both the music and picture segments performed favorably. The music segment saw sales drop 43.4% YoY to ¥249.1 billion, but posted an operating income of ¥8.8 billion, returning to profitability from an operating loss of ¥6.0 billion for the previous year. On the other hand, the picture segment logged a large operating income of ¥63.9 billion, supported by the major hit "Spider-Man 2" and solid sales of DVD/VHS software

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050428/104349/?ST=english

PC-Engine

03-May-2005, 09:18

Those are shipped numbers not sold numbers. :wink:

hey69

03-May-2005, 10:26

it's sold for sony, that's what counts for them ;)

anyway, i'm wondering how the psp will sell in EU.

ah wasn't the psp launched in Korea last weekend?

PC-Engine

03-May-2005, 10:42

it's sold for sony, that's what counts for them ;)

and they have a long way to go just to catch up to DS. :wink:

mech

03-May-2005, 11:30

Ahhhhh PC-Engine, so anti Sony.

PSP is doing pretty well against DS, especially given it's only available, where, only Korea, Japan and the US? For quite a price premium over the DS?

Sony sold more than 600,000 PSPs in the first week of its US launch, while the DS sold 500,000 units in its first two weeks in the US.

And DS just topped 5 million units, compared to PSP's 3 million? Given its availability in other markets, and these other markets contributing to the bottom line substantially, I'd say PSP is doing quite alright for itself so far. It's a marathon, not a sprint, I'll be very interested to see sales figures in a year :) Sony's aiming for 15 million sold by then.

Saying PSP has got a long way to go to catching up to the DS is sheer fanboyism IMO.

PC-Engine

03-May-2005, 11:45

Sony sold more than 600,000 PSPs in the first week of its US launch, while the DS sold 500,000 units in its first two weeks in the US.

Sure but it went downhill pretty quickly after that, just look at the weekly sales.

london-boy

03-May-2005, 11:52

They need some big games if they wish to keep up with DS and Nintendo's big sellers. Nintedogs is pushing a lot of units all by itself, for reasons that are completely oblivious to me.

rabidrabbit

03-May-2005, 11:54

london-boy

03-May-2005, 11:56

But it has!
It has to go from Japan to Europe, and that's a long long way to go :)
It's already taken almost half a year to reach here, and it'll still take further four months until it has finally arrived.

I think they're making hundreds of poor little Sony's employees swim all the way up here, with backpacks full of PSPs. Explains the delay, considering we're getting the same boxes, more or less.

rendezvous

03-May-2005, 12:10

anyway, i'm wondering how the psp will sell in EU.

From what i've seen it's allready doing pretty well. I've seen 3 PSPs now but i have yet to see a DS. ;)

PC-Engine

03-May-2005, 12:14

anyway, i'm wondering how the psp will sell in EU.

From what i've seen it's allready doing pretty well. I've seen 3 PSPs now but i have yet to see a DS. ;)

Yes we all know personal experience has great significance. Same old "in my area it's all sold out" routine. :lol:

london-boy

03-May-2005, 12:17

anyway, i'm wondering how the psp will sell in EU.

From what i've seen it's allready doing pretty well. I've seen 3 PSPs now but i have yet to see a DS. ;)

Guess they're imported... And i guess whoever had them made a lot of effort to show them off, since PSP still hasn't been released here.

I have not seen any PSPs or DS on people, though i have seen a lot of Ngage's. Must mean Ngage is da king.

rabidrabbit

03-May-2005, 12:32

Johnny_Physics

03-May-2005, 13:14

Guess they're imported... And i guess whoever had them made a lot of effort to show them off, since PSP still hasn't been released here.

The PSP is doing a great job exposing itself without any user intervention. My personal experience here in Euro land, even before the European launch of the DS, is that the PSP gets quite a lot of attention from people not interested in gaming.

If you're holding a DS most people just see it as "one of those gameboys" but if you're holding a PSP people will stare at it, comment on it, asking if they can touch it, caress it, spoon it in bed... They don't care about its ability to play games or video/audio, they don't even want to play Lumines or Ridge Racer, all they care about is how shiny and sleek it looks. So in my experience it certainly grabs the attention of others, even strangers.
I don't know how I feel about that, actually. :(

PC-Engine

03-May-2005, 13:22

The pertinent question is do they want to spend a good chunk of money just to touch its shiny shine.

rabidrabbit

03-May-2005, 13:32

As if you couldn't do anything else with it but touch :roll:
Non gaming people might find it harder to justify it just for music and videos, but if you are a gamer there's little to put one off buying one.

I've found the video viewing on PSP to be much better than what I first thought. The screen really does make a difference, it does not restrict the experience as much as I thought prior experiencing first hand.
So even casual gamers might find the PSP has much to offer.

Johnny_Physics

03-May-2005, 13:33

PC-Engine

03-May-2005, 13:45

Johnny_Physics

03-May-2005, 14:24

The pertinent question is do they want to spend a good chunk of money just to touch its shiny shine.

I don't know, people seem to be limited to communicating only with exclamation points when they're around a PSP so I haven't been able to extract that kind of information from anyone.

Exactly my point which rabbidrabbit apparently missed.

The shine is great for luring them in, when they start to find out what the device can do they will surely get even more impressed.
I mean, I don't think they'll be disappointed when they find out that their favorite shiny slice of heaven can play video, audio and PS2-like games.

Ali-G

03-May-2005, 14:50

hey69, you don't think you should actually use the right wording so people don't get confused here? Its shipped not sold (even Sony says shipped).

Sony sold more than 600,000 PSPs in the first week of its US launch, while the DS sold 500,000 units in its first two weeks in the US.

Sony released 1 million PSP's for launch in the US. Nintendo only had 600,000 DS's in the US on launch.

And DS just topped 5 million units, compared to PSP's 3 million?

No, if you kept up with DS related stuff you'd know that Nintendo shipped just over 6 million DS's back in March.

Saying PSP has got a long way to go to catching up to the DS is sheer fanboyism IMO.

It has got quite a long way, especially considering DS's lead is only getting bigger in Japan and Europe.

hey69

03-May-2005, 15:40

i don't think there will be a million pieces of difference between shipped and sold.

what i understand is sony can only ship to sellers and get paid by them.
it's the sellers problem to SELL them to clients like you and me

so i presume ... that what only counts is shipped to sell by sony :)

Ali-G

03-May-2005, 16:35

There is a significant difference between shipped and sold if you look at sales tracking data. The report says that 1.44 million were shipped by the end of March in Japan. But Japanese sales of PSP were at 1.1 million at that time. 1.53 million were shipped to the US by the end of March while 700,000 where actually sold by that time. So that's a difference of more then 1.1 million between shipped and sold. Its similar for DS as well, 6 million shipped just under 5 million sold.

I don't really want to argue about the importance of shipped and sold to Sony. Although I would say that if shops can't sell a Sony product then it will be Sony's problem to get them to buy more stock. Anyway I'm only talking about using the correct wording to avoid future confusion. In the end even Sony report it as shipped so it should be reported here as shipped, its just the correct term that's all.

see colon

03-May-2005, 16:55

if sony "sold" units to resellers, when hardware prices dropped no retailers would drop the price until all of the units they purchased at the higher prices were sold to customers. i think it's more of a consignment agreement.

Ahhhhh PC-Engine, so anti Sony.
...
And DS just topped 5 million units, compared to PSP's 3 million? Given its availability in other markets, and these other markets contributing to the bottom line substantially, I'd say PSP is doing quite alright for itself so far. It's a marathon, not a sprint, I'll be very interested to see sales figures in a year Sony's aiming for 15 million sold by then.

this is awsome. you basicly accuse PC-Engine of being a fanboy then use sony's "shipped" numbers against nintendo's sold numbers. the DS has sold more units in each of the territories they are both available in. even in japan, where the launches of both systems was about 2 weeks apart the DS has outsold the PSP nearly 2:1.

that's not to say the PSP is selling poorly, and i'm certainly not calling it a failure. i'm sure it'll do fine in the long run, but currently it's not exactly doing steller when you compare the numbers to the DS.

03-May-2005, 17:59

Why was the DS even brought up in this topic in the first place? To start another flame fest? Both handhelds are going to do fine, we can all relax.

mech

04-May-2005, 01:19

Haven't seen any PSP's here either, I must be the only one owning a PSP inside 10 km radius.
It could be those who have one are afraid to show it in public, I'm afraid I'll get mugged or gangriped if people see me with my sexy shiny black PSP :lol:

Hahaha me too, I'm afraid to use mine on the train or whatever, I get quite a few looks...

No, if you kept up with DS related stuff you'd know that Nintendo shipped just over 6 million DS's back in March.

I looked up the latest DS news before I wrote my post and every site said they'd sold 5 million worldwide. So a thousand pardons, just going on what the newsites were telling me.

It has got quite a long way, especially considering DS's lead is only getting bigger in Japan and Europe.

The sales figures in Japan show that PSP is outselling DS week to week - and of course its lead is getting bigger in Europe, you nonce! :lol:

this is awsome. you basicly accuse PC-Engine of being a then use sony's "shipped" numbers against nintendo's sold numbers.

I'm assuming you meant to use the word f@nboy there, but anyway, he is - whenever he can get the boot in, he does, and he refuses to see the good side of the PSP.

I guess you could say that about me and the DS, but I'm just sick of getting screwed over by Nintendo really ;)

And as for having a go at me about comparing shipped and sold numbers - I looked up Google news to get my info, and those numbers come direct from there. So if you want to cry foul about those numbers, go have a cry to all the news sites reporting them.

even in japan, where the launches of both systems was about 2 weeks apart the DS has outsold the PSP nearly 2:1.

IIRC DS sold better at launch (partly because they had higher numbers to sell), giving it a head start, but since then PSP has been outselling DS (almost?) every week.

Why was the DS even brought up in this topic in the first place? To start another flame fest? Both handhelds are going to do fine, we can all relax.

Exactly. Good post.

see colon

04-May-2005, 02:31

And as for having a go at me about comparing shipped and sold numbers - I looked up Google news to get my info, and those numbers come direct from there. So if you want to cry foul about those numbers, go have a cry to all the news sites reporting them.
i don't care about your sources, the numbers aren't relevant. it's apples and oranges.

atari shipped 5 million coppies of "E.T." for the VCS, does that make that piece of software a success?

The sales figures in Japan show that PSP is outselling DS week to week
yeah...
http://www.bdgamer.net/?query=Japanese+Console+Sales+Chart&amount=0&blogi d=1
Japanese Console Sales Chart (27/03)

Nintendo DS: 55,825 (Annual: 485,370)

PlayStation Portable: 43,043 (Annual: 623,163)

Japanese Console Sales Chart (3/4)

Nintendo DS: 42,023 [Annual: 527,393]

PlayStation Portable: 33,911 [Annual: 667, 074]

Japanese Console Sales Chart (10/4)

Nintendo DS: 30,028 (Annual: 557,421)

PlayStation Portable: 28,848 (Annual: 695,922)

From: Apr 11 - 17, 2005*
PlayStation Portable 28,950 (Annual: 724,872)

Nintendo DS 21,698 (Annual: 579,119)

Japanese Console Sales Chart (24/4)

Nintendo DS: 96,191 (Annual: 675,310)

PlayStation Portable: 33,004 (Annual: 757,856)

the DS outsold the PSP 4 of the last 5 weeks. so the recent trend says otherwise. the PSP is ahead for the year, and the DS is ahead in total since launch.

* http://the-magicbox.com/toptenlast.htm

jvd

04-May-2005, 03:30

Let me explain something to you guys .

Stores do not buy systems . They carry the system. The stores make no money on the systems that we carry and we can ship any unsold product back to sony . We get payed to have the system on shelves and by software sales .

So there is a huge diffrence between shiped and sold . Shipped means they are sitting on shelves and taken home . Sold means they were taken home from the store .

Sold is a much better number to see where things are at . But as allways compared the two like things

PC-Engine

04-May-2005, 03:32

Thanks for clearing that up jvd.

Kolgar

04-May-2005, 05:20

PSP will sell just fine. DS simply isn't competition for it - that little doodad is aimed at a whole different audience.

And I couldn't give a diddly-shit HOW much DS has sold, or if PSP ever sells another darn unit. I've got mine, along with four games I enjoy (five, after I buy Hot Shots Golf tomorrow), and between that and watching movies via Mem Stick (and even UMD once in a while), I couldn't be happier with my little gem. :P

04-May-2005, 06:48

That's a change from how other stores seem to operate.

Other retailers that I know (I can only speak of a small franchise in Hawaii so it could be wildly different for GameStop, et al.) buys their systems but only makes like around $5 per system they sell, if that.

But yes there is a huge difference between "shipped" and "sold through". Afaik, Sony means the former and certainly not the latter. This is what I gather from some of our PSP devs (that the PSP is not selling super well to consumers yet).

That said, let me reiterate that both systems will do fine and that there is little to no reason to bring up the DS in this thread UNLESS to start another flame-filled topic.

london-boy

04-May-2005, 08:56

PC-Engine

04-May-2005, 09:14

jvd

04-May-2005, 09:29

Shipped means they are sitting on shelves and taken home . Sold means they were taken home from the store .

Ok, so shipped means they are shipped to the shop and taken home, and sold means they are shipped to the shop and taken home? :twisted:

Bah . Shipped means they are shipped to the shop and / or taken home. How they are taken home if there is no where to get them from is beyond me

london-boy

04-May-2005, 10:01

Ali-G

04-May-2005, 11:40

I looked up the latest DS news before I wrote my post and every site said they'd sold 5 million worldwide. So a thousand pardons, just going on what the newsites were telling me.

See hey69, I told you this shipped/sold thing would confuse some people.

The sales figures in Japan show that PSP is outselling DS week to week - and of course its lead is getting bigger in Europe, you nonce!

Weekly figures in Japan show DS outselling PSP 4 weeks out of the last 5. Last week DS sold 96k and PSP sold 33k. Also so what if PSP isn't released in Europe yet? This isn't an exercises in fairness mate its reality. The fact is because PSP isn't out in Europe for another 4 months DS's lead can only increase their. Which as I said is one of the reasons why PSP has a long way to go to catch up.

And as for having a go at me about comparing shipped and sold numbers - I looked up Google news to get my info, and those numbers come direct from there. So if you want to cry foul about those numbers, go have a cry to all the news sites reporting them.

Hows it the fault of a news site that your so freaking stupid you can't distinguish between "sold" and "shipped"? :lol:

london-boy

04-May-2005, 11:43

Hows it the fault of a news site that your so freaking stupid you can't distinguish between "sold" and "shipped"? :lol:

I think you can make your point across without havint to insult people. We already have enough members doing that.

Ali-G

04-May-2005, 11:49

So its ok for him to call me a nonce but not ok for me to call him freaking stupid?

PC-Engine

04-May-2005, 12:15

So its ok for him to call me a nonce but not ok for me to call him freaking stupid?

Exactly, it seems there's a double standard for SONY *insert word here*.

Ali-G

04-May-2005, 12:25

londboy probably just missed mechs comment, I admit I shouldnt have carried on the insults. I just hate that kind of thing, when someone starts throwing insults for no reason. Especially when I know that I'm in the right in the argument (doesn't happen often but I am here :))

london-boy

04-May-2005, 12:33

So its ok for him to call me a nonce but not ok for me to call him freaking stupid?

To be honest, i only read yours, yeah. If he insulted you, the comment is valid for him too (Just so u know, PCEngine, always jumping to conclusions).

Anyway, what's a nonce?

see colon

04-May-2005, 16:06

Anyway, what's a nonce?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=+nonce&r=f
nonce
a person who molests children

Other retailers that I know (I can only speak of a small franchise in Hawaii so it could be wildly different for GameStop, et al.) buys their systems but only makes like around $5 per system they sell, if that.
the retailers might need to pay for them up front, but they should be able to get refunded if they send the units back to to sony. any MSRP changes should also get them a refund, or at least credit twords more sony stuff. it's more akin to consignment than it is anything else.

PSP will sell just fine. DS simply isn't competition for it - that little doodad is aimed at a whole different audience.
And I couldn't give a diddly-shit HOW much DS has sold, or if PSP ever sells another darn unit. I've got mine, along with four games I enjoy (five, after I buy Hot Shots Golf tomorrow), and between that and watching movies via Mem Stick (and even UMD once in a while), I couldn't be happier with my little gem.
i own a PSP and 2 DS's, and both are sweet machines. i'm a big handheld fan, i even own an ngage and a game.com :P what gets me about this handheld battle is that people are so polarized about the whole thing. i've seen sony fans already claiming the death of nintendo, and nintendo fans claiming that the DS has better 3D graphics than the PSP. a 2 console system has meant great things for the living room, i'm excited about what it's going to do for the handheld space.

04-May-2005, 18:02

the retailers might need to pay for them up front, but they should be able to get refunded if they send the units back to to sony. any MSRP changes should also get them a refund, or at least credit twords more sony stuff. it's more akin to consignment than it is anything else.

Yep, this is also true of software...retailers can generally ship them back. What was new to me (from jvd's initial post) was the idea that A>Retailers didn't pay for the units and B>Retailers are paid to have them on shelves.

Normally big chain stores charge for end caps but not just shelf placement.

i own a PSP and 2 DS's, and both are sweet machines. i'm a big handheld fan, i even own an ngage and a game.com :P what gets me about this handheld battle is that people are so polarized about the whole thing. i've seen sony fans already claiming the death of nintendo, and nintendo fans claiming that the DS has better 3D graphics than the PSP. a 2 console system has meant great things for the living room, i'm excited about what it's going to do for the handheld space.

Absolutely, it's silly as I was saying in my first post. The only reason to interject the DS here is to start a flame fest.

jvd

04-May-2005, 18:51

What was new to me (from jvd's initial post) was the idea that A>Retailers didn't pay for the units and B>Retailers are paid to have them on shelves

It may only be for bigger stores ( gamestop is eating up eb it looks like ) They don't make money off the systems. Though sometimes a company would pay them for the space.

When the xbox shipped gamestop got payed to place it at the front of the store with a large section dedicated to it even though it had few games .

When the psp shipped the same thing happened , they got a nice area at the front of the store and special signs .

04-May-2005, 19:50

When the xbox shipped gamestop got payed to place it at the front of the store with a large section dedicated to it even though it had few games .

When the psp shipped the same thing happened , they got a nice area at the front of the store and special signs .

Yes, that is similar to the end cap space CompUsa sells. Special high profile areas are sold to companies. But overall, the stores do not charge Sony, MS, Nintendo just to have the product available.

Product placement yes, on-the-shelf, no.

mech

05-May-2005, 03:00

See hey69, I told you this shipped/sold thing would confuse some people.

Bwahahaha, yes, it's pretty hard to tell the difference :roll:

Weekly figures in Japan show DS outselling PSP 4 weeks out of the last 5. Last week DS sold 96k and PSP sold 33k. Also so what if PSP isn't released in Europe yet? This isn't an exercises in fairness mate its reality. The fact is because PSP isn't out in Europe for another 4 months DS's lead can only increase their. Which as I said is one of the reasons why PSP has a long way to go to catch up.

And yet the sales charts still show PSP outselling DS this year. DS had some big releases (like Nintendogs) which will affect the charts from week to week, whereas PSP has been quiet on the release front. What's your point?

Also, "exercise in fairness"? My point in the first place was that saying that "its lead in Europe is increasing" was an incredibly redundant statement to make - of course its lead is increasing in a country where the PSP isn't even out yet :lol:

5 million to 3 million at this stage of the game, when the PSP isn't even out in a lot of countries yet, does not (IMO) give it a "long way to go" to catch up. Both consoles have only been out a few months, both are selling well, just read what Ty said earlier...

Hows it the fault of a news site that your so freaking stupid you can't distinguish between "sold" and "shipped"?

Hey, good work in chucking in an insult there, when all I did was paraphrase the news sites - none of them differentiated between shipped and sold.

and FYI, a "nonce" is not used as slang for a "child molester" anywhere I know. It's basically used to mean "silly person" (for want of a better phrase) - i.e. it was used when Ali-G had his totally redundant statement about DS' lead in Europe. There's a big difference between calling someone a "nonce" (which is meant playfully, fully evident in my post), and someone "freaking stupid".

So everyone just chill :)

PC-Engine

05-May-2005, 05:33

Shipped numbers 3m vs 6m+
Sold numbers 2m vs 5m+

Ali-G

05-May-2005, 05:34

mech:

PSP has outsold DS very marginally so far this year in Japan and that should be reversed this week. Plus you can't ignore the 2004 sales. My point is that DS is ahead and is only going further ahead ATM. What does it matter why? We can argue on stuff like that all day long.

Also, "exercise in fairness"? My point in the first place was that saying that "its lead in Europe is increasing" was an incredibly redundant statement to make - of course its lead is increasing in a country where the PSP isn't even out yet

The fact that DS has sold well in Europe and will have the next 4 months PSP free to extend its userbase even further is very relevant. It should be obvious yes but that doesn't make it redundant. Its just another reason why PSP has a long way to go to catch DS.

5 million to 3 million at this stage of the game, when the PSP isn't even out in a lot of countries yet, does not (IMO) give it a "long way to go" to catch up

Your still comparing shipped to sold, see PC-Engines post above. Oh and what I'm saying does not contradict what TY said.

Hey, good work in chucking in an insult there, when all I did was paraphrase the news sites - none of them differentiated between shipped and sold.

Don't start insulting people if you don't like it thrown back at you then. You didn't just paraphrase a website. You didn't listen to a word of what people here told you about how the DS numbers you had were not comparable to the PSP numbers given in this thread.

BTW if you call someone a nonce then you can't expect them to assume that your not using its most common meaning. Considering what I thought you'd called me you got off very lightly at being called "freaking stupid".

mech

05-May-2005, 07:29

PSP has outsold DS very marginally so far this year in Japan and that should be reversed this week. Plus you can't ignore the 2004 sales. My point is that DS is ahead and is only going further ahead ATM. What does it matter why? We can argue on stuff like that all day long.

Still more than 10% higher sales this year, despite DS outselling PSP for the last 4 out of 5 weeks or whatever it was. Not entirely "marginal" IMO.

The fact that DS has sold well in Europe and will have the next 4 months PSP free to extend its userbase even further is very relevant. It should be obvious yes but that doesn't make it redundant. Its just another reason why PSP has a long way to go to catch DS.

*sigh* Yes it is relevent that Europe has the DS out already, and it is selling well - I never said otherwise. I said yours was a redundant statement - even the Gizmondo is increasing its lead against the PSP in Europe, because it's simply not available there. I was giving you shit about the way you phrased it, not about the point you were making. Or are you too freaking stupid to realise that? ;)

Your still comparing shipped to sold, see PC-Engines post above. Oh and what I'm saying does not contradict what TY said.

Good point, I should have written 6 million.

Regarding Ty:

That said, let me reiterate that both systems will do fine and that there is little to no reason to bring up the DS in this thread UNLESS to start another flame-filled topic.

That's the bit I wanted you to take on board. I'm not saying that DS is doing badly; I'm saying PSP is doing fine against DS and it's way way too early in the game to be making judgements one way or another about the eventual outcome. IMO though it should do fine.

Don't start insulting people if you don't like it thrown back at you then.

Being called a nonce with a smilie face after it counts as an insult to you? :lol:

You didn't listen to a word of what people here told you about how the DS numbers you had were not comparable to the PSP numbers given in this thread.

Yes... I did. And I replied that the numbers I had were from a website, and they listed both as "sold". In my last post I SHOULD have written 6 vs 3 million though, you're right. IMO it doesn't make a difference to my point though.

BTW if you call someone a nonce then you can't expect them to assume that your not using its most common meaning. Considering what I thought you'd called me you got off very lightly at being called "freaking stupid".

Ahahaha, what? You really call people a "nonce" when you want to call them a child molester? Are you serious?

And as I already said.. the most common (in fact only) meaning I've ever heard it used as is a very light, joking payout. To get all worked up about that and make claims about how I "got off lightly" is a bit OTT. I'll be more careful in future if that's all it takes to offend you. :)

see colon

05-May-2005, 14:19

Ahahaha, what? You really call people a "nonce" when you want to call them a child molester? Are you serious?
that's what it means to me. cha'mone

Ali-G

05-May-2005, 16:30

mech

Its marginal; IMO, especially given that DS has outsold PSP by 100,000 in the last 5 weeks. BTW more accurate 2005 totals in Japan so far are PSP 785,856, DS 736,178 which is even more marginal.

And that comment wasn't redundant, it was worth saying since it was relivant. Dont see why you'd 'give me shit' for saying something that's worth saying.

As I said I haven't contradicted what TY said or said anything about a final judgment. Just said that PSP has a long way to go to catch DS, doesn't mean PSP is selling poorly.

Being called a nonce with a smilie face after it counts as an insult to you?

Stop assuming that people can read your mind or that people here know you. You and your friends might call each other nonces all day long and laugh and to you thats friendly. Just like I could call my friends tossers and laugh and it would be taken in a friendly way. But when you call someone who you don't know a nonce it will be taken as an insult, that shouldnt suprise you, especially if they know the real meanin of the word. Putting a laughing face next to it doesn't make it look like your being friendly either. Laughing can be taken as friendly or insulting.

Ahahaha, what? You really call people a "nonce" when you want to call them a child molester? Are you serious?

Where do you think it gets you when you post exaggerated laughing at the start of your posts? It makes you look like a silly kid laughing at other people's opinions. Who said I call anyone a nonce as well? I don't need to use the word to know its meaning. Look at see colons link above. It explains where the word nonce comes from. Its an abbreviation of a prison term that evolved into a word for child molesters.

And as I already said.. the most common (in fact only) meaning I've ever heard it used as is a very light, joking payout. To get all worked up about that and make claims about how I "got off lightly" is a bit OTT. I'll be more careful in future if that's all it takes to offend you.

How am I easily offended becayse I knew the meaning of the word and assumed you meant its real meaning (not a crazy assumption is it)? The way you and your friends use a word and its real meaning are two different things. I've called my friends freaking idiots lots of times and its taken as a joke. But I wouldn't expect you to take it that way or anyone else I didn;t know.

I can accept that you didn't mean to call me a child molester now, because you've told me that. But you need to accept that I had every right to be angry at your comment at the time. Stop blaming other people for knowing what this word means instead of your own use of it.

mech

06-May-2005, 01:25

Obviously we will never agree, and we're just going to go in circles because everything you've written can be countered with what I already wrote in my last post.

But seriously, getting so uptight about being called "a nonce" and writing numerous paragraphs on it - but thinking it's perfectly fine to call me "freaking stupid" smacks of hypocrisy in my opinion. If I'd known it'd get you so riled up I wouldn't have used it.

I stand by my last post, but there's little point in arguing about this further.

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 04:26

PC-Engine

06-May-2005, 12:44

I'm not even interested in PSP "catching up to" DS. I maintain that DS was and is a stopgap to protect Nintendo's marketshare from PSP while they ready a proper Gameboy successor. So I don't think DS ultimately means very much to Nintendo long term.

Meanwhile, Sony's got all this time to build a solid base with PSP and make inroads into Nintendo's final stronghold. Which it will. The bottom line is that PSP is going to be mad successful, and we are even now witnessing the beginning of the end of Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market.

It's nice that SONY has entered the portable gaming sector because it forces Nintendo to come up with new ideas and technology to compete. However Nintendo will continue to dominate the portable sector like they're currently doing with even a stopgap DS.

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 13:13

It's nice that SONY has entered the portable gaming sector because it forces Nintendo to come up with new ideas and technology to compete. However Nintendo will continue to dominate the portable sector like they're currently doing with even a stopgap DS.

It's nice that MICROSOFT has entered the simulation racing sector because it forces Polyphony Digital to come up with new ideas and technology to compete. However Polyphony will continue to dominate the simulation sector like they're currently doing even with an "pwned" GT4.

:wink:

PC-Engine

06-May-2005, 13:17

london-boy

06-May-2005, 13:35

Unfortunately PD hasn't come up with new ideas at all in GT4. GT4 is using the same AI in GT1. Same can be said about PSP...ooh bigger screen! :lol: :wink:

Oh puh-lease...

see colon

06-May-2005, 14:32

Unfortunately PD hasn't come up with new ideas at all in GT4. GT4 is using the same AI in GT1. Same can be said about PSP...ooh bigger screen! :lol: :wink:

Oh puh-lease...
this is actualy one of my main gripes as a PSP owner. there's nothing there that isn't really a port or a remake. it's nice to play darkstalkers and twited metal on the go, but it's darstalkers and twisted metal. for being "the future" (to use sony's words), it certainly feels like the past to me.

london-boy

06-May-2005, 15:23

see colon

06-May-2005, 15:35

oh... well i think GT4 is basicly GT2. ie it added back all of the things (used cars, and just the quantity of cars) that were missing in GT3.

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 15:55

this is actualy one of my main gripes as a PSP owner. there's nothing there that isn't really a port or a remake. it's nice to play darkstalkers and twited metal on the go, but it's darstalkers and twisted metal. for being "the future" (to use sony's words), it certainly feels like the past to me.

OK, maybe I'm just new to this whole portable games thing and I don't "get it," but I LIKE the fact that I'm taking console-quality games on the go with me. I LIKE that I'm playing Ridge Racer and Wipeout and Twisted Metal and Hot Shots anytime, anywhere.

I love console gaming. That's why I do it. Now thanks to PSP, I can enjoy PS2-like games in my back yard, at work, in my car, in an igloo, on top of a mountain, or anyplace else there's no wall socket or room for a TV.

I'm in love.

see colon

06-May-2005, 16:12

I love console gaming. That's why I do it. Now thanks to PSP, I can enjoy PS2-like games in my back yard, at work, in my car, in an igloo, on top of a mountain, or anyplace else there's no wall socket or room for a TV.
while that's true, the games are soooooooo much like ps2 games that you can walk into a store and buy what amounts to the same game on both systems and you pay full price for both. there's nothing new. i like darkstalkers. i like twisted metal. i even like hot shots. but those things are the past, not the future. nintendo isn't doing much better. it's launch lineup was mainly quick and dirty ports and/or remakes, but there were a few innovative titles (like ping pals, even though it sucked).

PC-Engine

06-May-2005, 16:58

OK, maybe I'm just new to this whole portable games thing and I don't "get it," but I LIKE the fact that I'm taking console-quality games on the go with me.

For people like myself and perhaps see colon, it needs to offer something more than just better graphics that come close to home consoles ie something different. DS is going in the right direction with the touchpad and I expect Evolution will even be more interesting with gyroscopic control. Nintendo just needs to release more games like Nintendogs that make good use of the special interface. PSP and it's shiny shine gets pretty stale after awhile like all superficial things. Even as a media player it isn't so great requiring expensive memory cards and expensive UMD movies. Chances are if you already own a PS2 then you're going to be annoyed that PSP forces you to buy the same games you own just so you could play it OTG.

Ali-G

06-May-2005, 17:50

mech, had you listened the first time I wouldn't have had to repeat myself.

Also I didn't say it was fine to call you freaking stupid. As I said earlier I never expected you to take what I said as anything but an insult at the time. I'm not getting riled up either, I was just trying to explain something to you.

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 18:57

while that's true, the games are soooooooo much like ps2 games that you can walk into a store and buy what amounts to the same game on both systems and you pay full price for both.

That's right: you can if you want. But you don't have to. I like having the choice, and new games (mmm, Lumines) do exist and hopefully many more will follow.

i like darkstalkers. i like twisted metal. i even like hot shots. but those things are the past, not the future.

I'll take reimagined PS2-quality games any day over the 8- and 16-bit-quality fare handhelds have offered us to date. Talk about the past! :)

PSP's young. The new games will arrive eventually.

Teasy

06-May-2005, 19:03

I'm not even interested in PSP "catching up to" DS. I maintain that DS was and is a stopgap to protect Nintendo's marketshare from PSP while they ready a proper Gameboy successor.

But what does it say about PSP if what you consider to be only a stopgap can outsell it easily?

I'll take reimagined PS2-quality games any day over the 8- and 16-bit-quality fare handhelds have offered us to date.

DS only offers 16 bit graphics? :?

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 19:17

For people like myself and perhaps see colon, it needs to offer something more than just better graphics that come close to home consoles ie something different.

Fair enough. We all have our preferences.

DS is going in the right direction with the touchpad and I expect Evolution will even be more interesting with gyroscopic control.

Chances are if you already own a PS2 then you're going to be annoyed that PSP forces you to buy the same games you own just so you could play it OTG.

You may disagree with me, but I think general-purpose gaming devices work best with general-purpose controllers. I really don't want to control games with a touch stylus, or by groping a screen. My inner gamer hasn't been crying out for some newfangled, wonky control system.

On the other hand, Nintendo seems quite eager to differentiate its products from the competition. By dreaming up all these new, "innovative" control schemes, I think Nintendo's addressing their own needs, not mine. And painting itself into a corner while they're at it.

I just want to take my console gaming experience on the road, and PSP lets me do that. Plus a whole lot more.

Which brings us back to personal preferences.

Live and let live, I always say. :)

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 19:35

But what does it say about PSP if what you consider to be a stopgap can outsell it easily?

You and I both know that until now, Nintendo has been the undisputed market leader in handheld games. Its Gameboy has legions of fans, and, being Nintendo fans, many of them are rabid.

They'll snap up virtually anything the company puts out (ha, I said virtually). :lol: Pretty much all the company has to do is slap two screens together, throw in a touch stylus, step to the mike and utter words like "innovation," and the people go crazy.

So with such a stranglehold on the market, it was actually a pretty clever decision to launch a stopgap like DS - a cockblocker, of sorts, that would jump in line ahead of PSP to perform cash-ectomies on all the little gamers.

Nintendo knew what it was doing. Gamers are eating it up. Perhaps, after hearing about PSP, some of them had concluded that the new DS, too, would offer never-before-seen power in a handheld. A Gameboy 2 with a different name. Regardless, Nintendo beat PSP to the punch with DS and it's no surprise they're racking up sales given the company's position in the market and DS's lower price point.

But PSP's competition isn't DS. It's the next Gameboy. And PSP is pulling further ahead every day.

DS only offers 16 bit graphics? :?

Nearly N64-quality visuals, from what I understand. And I moved on from N64 about five years ago.

see colon

06-May-2005, 19:37

PSP's young. The new games will arrive eventually.
i remember an ngage fan saying the same thing to me once;)

I'll take reimagined PS2-quality games any day over the 8- and 16-bit-quality fare handhelds have offered us to date.
(mmm, Lumines)
forgive me for finding irony in the fact that you praise lumines, the PSP with possibly the weakest graphical presentaion, then complain about other handhelds not pushing the graphics envelope far enough in the same post.

You may disagree with me, but I think general-purpose gaming devices work best with general-purpose controllers. I really don't want to control games with a touch stylus, or by groping a screen. My inner gamer hasn't been crying out for some newfangled, wonky control system.
hmm... didn't you just say...
That's right: you can if you want. But you don't have to. I like having the choice,
i haven't played a DS game yet the forces me to fondle the screen if i didn't want to. even polarium and zoo keeper support d-pad input, and some games (ie asphault) don't use the touch screen at all. the button setups for both the DS and the PSP are so similar it's rediculous. the DS offers developers and players a choice. wouldn't you rather have a choice?

the PSP is a fantastic machine, but i think sony doesn't completely understand the handheld market. i'm also pretty miffed about the 222mhz cpu fiasco. i mean, they basicly removed the developers ability to stress the machine, and limited the power ddraw of these first generation games. at first i didn't think it was a big deal, then it dawned on me. these first gen games would be what hardware reviews would be playing when they tested things like battery life. sony basicly sugercoated the battery situation. maybe sony does understand the handheld market afterall.

see colon

06-May-2005, 19:42

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 19:50

PSP's young. The new games will arrive eventually.
i remember an ngage fan saying the same thing to me once;)

But we all know PSP is hardly an NGage. This is Sony we're talking about. Remember them? The company that kicked the 900-lb. gorilla of gaming to the curb in the 32-/64-bit generation? :)

forgive me for finding irony in the fact that you praise lumines, the PSP with possibly the weakest graphical presentaion, then complain about other handhelds not pushing the graphics envelope far enough in the same post.

You've played Lumines, haven't you? Seen those sweet, high-resolution background graphics of the space stations and dancing girls? I love it. It's like a mini rave in my hands. 8)

i haven't played a DS game yet the forces me to fondle the screen if i didn't want to. even polarium and zoo keeper support d-pad input, and some games (ie asphault) don't use the touch screen at all. the button setups for both the DS and the PSP are so similar it's rediculous. the DS offers developers and players a choice. wouldn't you rather have a choice?

In this case, no. In fact, the whole idea of the dual screens and touch screens and stylus just helped turn me off to the DS. But that's just me. As I said, I'm not looking for innovation, necessarily. Just good games on the go.

the PSP is a fantastic machine, but i think sony doesn't completely understand the handheld market. i'm also pretty miffed about the 222mhz cpu fiasco. i mean, they basicly removed the developers ability to stress the machine, and limited the power ddraw of these first generation games. at first i didn't think it was a big deal, then it dawned on me. these first gen games would be what hardware reviews would be playing when they tested things like battery life. sony basicly sugercoated the battery situation. maybe sony does understand the handheld market afterall.

Touche! Hehehe.

Yes, the CPU situation may come back to haunt owners of first-gen PSPs by making them purchase newer, more advanced batteries. But personally, I'm excited at the thought that this little system is capable of even better graphics than I've seen already. If all it takes is the purchase of a new battery, I'm all for it.

Presumably, Sony won't drop the speed restriction until it comes up with a new battery and begins shipping PSPs that include it. Or maybe they will, and we'll all be burned when our new, advanced, wi-fi games only last us an hour and a half. Anything could happen. :wink:

Kolgar

06-May-2005, 20:09

But PSP's competition isn't DS. It's the next Gameboy. And PSP is pulling further ahead every day.
jesus i'm tired of hearing this. the next gameboy hasn't even been announced yet. was the ngage competing with the DS when it (the ngage) was launched? was the NGPC competing with the GBA when it was on the shelves next to the GBC? man, i can't wait for sony to launch the PS3 so the xbox can have some competition.

I already said, I view DS as a stopgap. If it doesn't have "Gameboy" in the name, I don't think it's the heir apparent to Nintendo's portable throne. (Hehehe, I said "portable throne." :lol: ) Nintendo's buying time until it can launch the next Gameboy, which I bet will have a few things in common with PSP - such as a bigger screen and disc-based media.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that DS marks the end of the line for the Gameboy as we know it. The company's going to retool that biatch from the ground up with GB2, just you wait and see.

But until then, Sony and PSP are going to sell. First they'll sell to early adopters and your 16-35 year olds, then the price will begin to drop and a wider variety of games will become available, and you'll see the under-16 crowd - Nintendo's core audience - get in on the action.

That's when we'll see the next Gameboy proper - although, who knows - maybe Nintendo will change the name if they think it's too restrictive for them - and we'll see then if Nintendo's got the juice to defend its turf and slap Sony down but hard.

By the way, please don't let any of my rantings bother you. I'm off work today and just feeling kinda funky behind this keyboard right now. All my burbling means nothing, nothing at all. :wink:

jvd

06-May-2005, 20:13

OK, maybe I'm just new to this whole portable games thing and I don't "get it," but I LIKE the fact that I'm taking console-quality games on the go with me.

I have console quality games on my ds too . Sure they are a gen ago quality but in a few months the xenon will be out and u will be using last gen graphics .

The real diffrence is the ports imho . I can walk into the store and for 50$ i can buy dynsty warriors for the psp , dynsty warriors 4 for the ps2 for 50$ and dynsty warriors 1 for the ps2 for 10$ new .

This can be said for basicly all of the psps launch line up . Now this isn't a bad thing . But these games were new a few years ago to a few months ago . I'm certinaly not in a rush to beat something again. Just like if in sept god of war came to the psp as a port like the other games . Are you going to rush out and spend 50$ to play god of war again after such a short period of time ?

On the ds you have another situtation . The ports aren't as graphicly impressive as the psp . But the controls are just as good if not better (can't say that with the thumb nob on the psp) Also the ports are of older games which have not been played in almost 9 years now . Sure its just mario 64 . But mario 64 is old now , you don't get the wow i just played this last sept feel like you do with many of the psp games .

Its a diffrence and the 100$ price diffrence doesn't help the psp here in the states , sure its pretty and the games look pretty but right now thats all it is . I think you will see sales start to show that trend .

06-May-2005, 21:19

I have console quality games on my ds too . Sure they are a gen ago quality but in a few months the xenon will be out and u will be using last gen graphics .

And then the DS will be two generations old.

This can be said for basicly all of the psps launch line up . Now this isn't a bad thing . But these games were new a few years ago to a few months ago . I'm certinaly not in a rush to beat something again.

Just like if in sept god of war came to the psp as a port like the other games . Are you going to rush out and spend 50$ to play god of war again after such a short period of time ?

I can certainly see and agree with argument. That said, when I get games for my GBA-SP, I do not simply buy the same types of games I buy for my GCN/N64. In fact I tend to buy games I never would think about buying for the home console; stuff like Mario Golf, Advanced Wars, etc. There are types of games that work very well on handhelds and are not as appealing on a home console. This is just my opinion though.

On the ds you have another situtation . The ports aren't as graphicly impressive as the psp . But the controls are just as good if not better (can't say that with the thumb nob on the psp) Also the ports are of older games which have not been played in almost 9 years now . Sure its just mario 64 . But mario 64 is old now , you don't get the wow i just played this last sept feel like you do with many of the psp games .

I generally find that the nostagia is better than the reality. That I look back at old games and think they were more fun than when I pick them up again. But again, this could just be me.

I presume then, that you have zero interest in a portable GCN?

Its a diffrence and the 100$ price diffrence doesn't help the psp here in the states , sure its pretty and the games look pretty but right now thats all it is . I think you will see sales start to show that trend .

To spur sales both Nintendo and Sony must have exclusive games that aren't available on their handhelds and home consoles. That is, both companies must play to the strengths of the platform, be it home or portable.

Teasy

06-May-2005, 21:19

You and I both know that until now, Nintendo has been the undisputed market leader in handheld games. Its Gameboy has legions of fans, and, being Nintendo fans, many of them are rabid.

The 80+ million PS2 owners out there don't contain loads of rabid Sony fans? Kolgar Nintendo can't win with you. You dismiss DS by saying its just a stopgap and then when I point out its outselling PSP you say its just because of rabid fans and that DS isn't PSP's competition. They're just excuses. Why can't you just accept that DS is selling so well because its a good product that provides something different? Some people talk about PC-Engine being such a PSP hater but your just as negative towards DS IMO.

Nearly N64-quality visuals, from what I understand. And I moved on from N64 about five years ago.

Ok first off the MegaDrive was a 16 bit console Kolgar not the N64, also DS is at least N64 quality AFAICS.

06-May-2005, 21:37

Some people talk about PC-Engine being such a PSP hater but your just as negative towards DS IMO.

The problem with PC-Engine isn't so much that he's a Sony hater but rather the way he treats others who disagree with him, oftentimes insulting them at every turn.

jvd

07-May-2005, 00:46

And then the DS will be two generations old. But the ds never had to flaunt its graphics to sell nor did its fan base have to claim its graphics were on par with current gen consoles . That selling point for the psp is gone in a few months

In fact I tend to buy games I never would think about buying for the home console; stuff like Mario Golf, Advanced Wars, etc. There are types of games that work very well on handhelds and are not as appealing on a home console. This is just my opinion though.

And i agree with you . Its the simple games that provide the most replay and also the best jump in play and leave that works for a handheld . Thats why the nes / supernes games were great on the gba sp .

However judging from the psp titles in the pipeline and out the huge majority of titles are ports .

From the ds it doesn't seem that way , it seems like there is a good mix .

I generally find that the nostagia is better than the reality. That I look back at old games and think they were more fun than when I pick them up again. But again, this could just be me.

A good game is a good game no matter when you play it . Mario 64 was great then and great now . The tripple a games ported to the psp will be great too , it doesn't change . The diffrence is on the ds the tripple a games are fresher because they didn't recently apear on the home console .

My case in point is God of war . Lots of people liked it , i found it enjoyable . But how many people would rush out and buy a port of it on the psp for christmass ? Not to mention that if you want to play a port from nintendo 64 you have to break out your nintendo 64 . IF you want to play a port of a psone or ps2 game you have your ps2 already hooked up. IF you want to play a ps2 port next christmass you have your ps3 to play it on . That will hurt the apeal

I presume then, that you have zero interest in a portable GCN?

IT depends , price , battery life , games .

If it launched at 200$ usd . Had a good library and gave me 8 hours wifi and had original games along with a good balance of gamecube games i would pick it up most likely

After all (till i was mugged) I owned two psps .

To spur sales both Nintendo and Sony must have exclusive games that aren't available on their handhelds and home consoles. That is, both companies must play to the strengths of the platform, be it home or portable. I agree adn whats in the psp's pipeline isn't going to spur many sales they are almost all ports . However for nintendo you have some orignal games (look at nintendo dogs ) there are many more original games coming to it than the psp .

On the other hand since they are ports the psp is getting flooded with games .

I don't think sony is going to outsell the ds and i never thought it would . Sony fans like to point out its a third pillar and nintendo will soon abandon it . But its hard to abandon a system that is inderectly the upgrade path for any gba owner . The games are fun and the system brings in a new inovative feature .

Sure watching media on your psp is a neat idea but for the average user they aren't going to a) buy the storage space and b) take the time to convert the video

I think the psp will give nintendo the most competition its had since the game gear . But in the end it wont be enough to unseat it . Basicly you have a reversal of the home console front .

There you have sony with such a huge lead its almost impossible for anyone to just come in and take over the market . Sure after a generation or two someone might be able to rival them in installed units .

In the portable area its nintendo that has this installed base that sony can only start to chip away at .

This isn't back when the playstation came out . There wasn't a sega taking the mind set away from nintendo createding two weaker brand names . There is just the gameboy and its variants and its been a strong name for what 16 years ? You don't just throw out a psp and expect it to over take 16 years of gameboy being the portable system

Kolgar

07-May-2005, 03:21

The 80+ million PS2 owners out there don't contain loads of rabid Sony fans? Kolgar Nintendo can't win with you. You dismiss DS by saying its just a stopgap and then when I point out its outselling PSP you say its just because of rabid fans and that DS isn't PSP's competition.

Teasy, if there's a more devout fan than a loyal Nintendo gamer, I haven't seen it. The company's clearly done something right to create such fervent loyalty. Whatever it is, they ought to bottle it and sell it (just not to Sony or Microsoft :) ).

In any case, DS and PSP aren't actually going at each other head to head, are they? You can almost liken it to when PSX came out. Nintendo had delayed N64 and Super NES was still holding down the fort. Was PSX's primary competition the Super NES? No, it was the N64, just as soon as Nintendo got around to releasing it.

(Although that's not quite right either, because back then, as now, Sony was targeting an older audience than Nintendo. But performance wise, PlayStation and N64 were meant to be comparable.)

Anyway, Super NES had to fend for itself while PSX wowed gamers with its 3D graphics. Maybe Nintendo learned a lesson from that experience. Hence, the DS. It fills the gap and steals some of the thunder from PSP while Nintendo beavers away on its next Gameboy.

Meanwhile, PSP and NDS are at very different price points and aimed at different audiences. Eventually, Sony hopes the "trickle-down" effect will take place and PSP, like PSX, will become cheaper and gain a foothold among a wider audience. Including those people who currently buy Nintendo handhelds.

Why can't you just accept that DS is selling so well because its a good product that provides something different?

Because I'm not sure it's selling for those reasons. How many games actually use the DS's unique features to deliver gaming experiences heretofore unseen in gaming? Not very many, is my understanding. From what I gather, the DS-specific software has been slow in coming, though that situation seems to be improving now.

I think DS's sales have just as much to do with Nintendo's reputation for "quality" and promises of "innovation" as the actual touch screens, stylus, and microphone, but that's just my opinion.

Some people talk about PC-Engine being such a PSP hater but your just as negative towards DS IMO.

I'll readily admit it; I don't like the DS. It just doesn't appeal to me as a consumer. I see no pressing need for two screens in a game console. I can't see myself poking at a game machine with a pen or talking to it via a microphone. And the games skew young as always. Perhaps if Nintendo offered more content I liked, I'd be more open to DS's new features.

But the bottom line is I think the DS's main purpose from the beginning was to retard Sony's growth in the handheld market - and thereby protect Nintendo's own marketshare. Call me cynical. Lord knows I am.

Ok first off the MegaDrive was a 16 bit console Kolgar not the N64, also DS is at least N64 quality AFAICS.

Who ever said anything about the MegaDrive? I didn't. And anyway, I know it was 16-bit, just as I know that N64 was 64-bit.

I'll have to take your word on it that DS is "at least" N64 quality. From the videos I've seen, DS appears to have trouble rendering 3D as smoothly as N64.

As I said before - don't get too worked up by this. It's just my opinion; you can believe what you want. And my apologies if any of this has gotten convoluted. I'm trying to write two posts for two different boards at the same time right now and I'm tired from lawnwork to boot. :)

jvd

07-May-2005, 03:56

Sorry Kolgar but wtf are you talking about . There are three portable consoles on the market and they all compete with each other . They would be the gba / sp , psp , ds .

The ds is seriously kicking the psp's arse all over the place . This can be because of a number of reasons . Price , quality games , inovations , reputation and other small things . But in the end it doesn't matter because the ds is outselling the psp and that is the psps competition . ITs apparent that even you believe so because you try to dismiss the fact every chance you can

Kolgar

07-May-2005, 04:17

see colon

07-May-2005, 04:22

I'll have to take your word on it that DS is "at least" N64 quality. From the videos I've seen, DS appears to have trouble rendering 3D as smoothly as N64.
are you serious? it's my understanding (and i haven't seen a game otherwise to prove this wrong) that DS games are required to run at 60FPS or the images from the 2 screens get mangled together. you can attack the DS's lack of filtering, but saying that the games don't run smooth is rediculous.

In any case, DS and PSP aren't actually going at each other head to head, are they? You can almost liken it to when PSX came out. Nintendo had delayed N64 and Super NES was still holding down the fort. Was PSX's primary competition the Super NES? No, it was the N64, just as soon as Nintendo got around to releasing it.
the difference in this situation is that by the time the psx was released we already knew the n64 was on it's way. i remember reading specs that were pretty close to final in nintendo power before i pre-ordered my psx. in the handheld space nintendo hasn't announced a sucessor to the GBA or DS. what we have now we'll have for at least another year or two.

i don't understand your logic anyway.
a) nintendo released the DS as a stop-gap product to slow sony's entry in the handheld market
and...
b)the PSP and the DS aren't competing products

if a) is true then nintendo released the DS to compete with the PSP. if b) is true then nintendo didn't release the DS to compete with the PSP. they can't both be true.

it's too bad betamax didn't survive because it's real competator was DVD.

jvd

07-May-2005, 04:54

jvd, PSP's not competing directly with DS today. Sony's marketing it to a broader audience (though primarily older gamers vs. Ninty's younger ones) at a higher price point.

Yes, they have their eyes on Nintendo's market share, but as with PSX, they're going for that older buyer first. The price will drop, more games will come out that appeal to a wider range of gamers, and PSP will begin making big inroads into Nintendo-land.

You just see if I'm right.

No sony has no choice but to go for the high end market . A 5 year old would destroy the psp in seconds . I had a 30 year old man return one because the side cracked. We had a 18 year old return one because the thumb nob was jamed down . Its not solid and it wont take a fall or two. One fall with it landing on its face and its done . So it will never sell to a 5 year old untill its under 100$ .

But the ds can sell to both markets and as a 20 something male i bought the ds and only got the psp for free. So if i'm that older market your talking about sony is def fighting against nintendo here.

As for price drops and inroads well I doubt that will happen .

Next xmass psp can drop to what 200 here ? OKay the ds hits 100$ . The psp drops to 150$ the ds can hit under 75$ and I doubt that sony can drop the psp to 150$ usd for at least another 2 years .

By then nintendo can put out the gameboy 2 with gamecube + graphics and squeeze the hell out of the psp . They can have the high selling ds low in price and then the sleek new graphicly impressive gb2 . Price the gb2 close enough to the psp with out lossing money , flood it with ports and original games and the psp is in a horrible place to be .

Kolgar

07-May-2005, 06:16

You know, people tried telling me the same thing when PSX came out. "Nintendo's going to crush Sony."

People told me again with Dreamcast, when Xbox and Gamecube launched. "PS2 is going to get buried - especially when people see how great Xbox and GC games look!"

Only once have I stooped to telling someone "I told you so." Check back in a year or two and see how generous I'm feeling then. :wink:

07-May-2005, 07:56

But the ds never had to flaunt its graphics to sell nor did its fan base have to claim its graphics were on par with current gen consoles . That selling point for the psp is gone in a few months

The PSP does look nearly as good as current generation home consoles - we agree on this. But even if Xenon looks 100x better, it's not really going to change the quality of games on the PSP. The selling point would simply be, 'The most powerful handheld'.

One could easily turn your style of argument back onto the DS, "the PSP never had to flaunt silly gimmicks". But that wouldn't be fair either.

However judging from the psp titles in the pipeline and out the huge majority of titles are ports .

It's a good thing then, that the PS2 has such a huge library that there are bound to be some good handheld versions then. :)

From the ds it doesn't seem that way , it seems like there is a good mix .

It doesn't seem to me that the DS has many games coming out period. Or not as much I'd like anyhow.

A good game is a good game no matter when you play it .

Now you are contradicting yourself. If you believe this, then a good game that is a recent title is still a good game.

Mario 64 was great then and great now . The tripple a games ported to the psp will be great too , it doesn't change . The diffrence is on the ds the tripple a games are fresher because they didn't recently apear on the home console .

I have a console musuem at work; Vectrex, Intellivision, Jaguar, 3DO, Saturn, Dreamcast, N64, Colecovision, etc. etc. (In fact tonight I just played Star Control 2 on the 3DO - the best version of one of the best games) so I'm pretty aware of old games. I just think it's funny for you to argue that older is better and that "fresher" is worse. If that is the case then the further back you go, the better. Why buy a DS which is relatively fresh compared to the original gameboy?

Besides, as I said, both Sony and Nintendo have to push unique and exclusive titles to their respective platforms. Let's put it this way; If the DS didn't have any innovative games using the new features (touch screen, stylus, dual screen, etc.) then all you'd have is a portable N64.

Would that be better than a portable PS2? Of course not. But your argument nonsensically states that yes, the portable DS would be better because of it's older library. In other words, what is going to make the DS better is NOT because it's got older games but rather because of unique and creative games not available elsewhere.

My case in point is God of war . Lots of people liked it , i found it enjoyable . But how many people would rush out and buy a port of it on the psp for christmass ?

I don't know. It depends on what they tried to accomplish. If all the portable version was, was a straight port that didn't add anything, then I sure would hope that it wouldn't sell because I don't want publishers getting lazy.

Not to mention that if you want to play a port from nintendo 64 you have to break out your nintendo 64 . IF you want to play a port of a psone or ps2 game you have your ps2 already hooked up. IF you want to play a ps2 port next christmass you have your ps3 to play it on . That will hurt the apeal

If all the DS had was N64 ports, then surely the DS would lose a lot of its appeal.

IT depends , price , battery life , games .

If it launched at 200$ usd . Had a good library and gave me 8 hours wifi and had original games along with a good balance of gamecube games i would pick it up most likely

Why would you? You've been arguing about how recent titles lessen the appeal for a portable?

After all (till i was mugged) I owned two psps .

Sorry to hear that. Did you pay a thing for them or were they gifts of a sort?

I agree adn whats in the psp's pipeline isn't going to spur many sales they are almost all ports . However for nintendo you have some orignal games (look at nintendo dogs ) there are many more original games coming to it than the psp .

On the other hand since they are ports the psp is getting flooded with games .

I must not know enough of what is out there.

I don't think sony is going to outsell the ds and i never thought it would .

Me neither.

Sony fans like to point out its a third pillar and nintendo will soon abandon it .

"Sony fans"? You're always saying this forum is filled with Sony fans, give me the name of 5 of them who has claimed this.

But its hard to abandon a system that is inderectly the upgrade path for any gba owner . The games are fun and the system brings in a new inovative feature .

Actually it's very easy to abandon an indirect upgrade path. But Nintendo isn't going to abandon it.

Sure watching media on your psp is a neat idea but for the average user they aren't going to a) buy the storage space and b) take the time to convert the video

Agreed. This has to be easier for consumers.

I think the psp will give nintendo the most competition its had since the game gear . But in the end it wont be enough to unseat it . Basicly you have a reversal of the home console front .

Nintendo have been kings in this field for several generations without any real competition so absolutely Nintendo is the undisputed champion. Did I ever state otherwise?

PC-Engine

07-May-2005, 08:21

Kolgar, question for you. What happens when SONY decides that a touchscreen is essential for the future of their PSP handheld line and incorporates one? Will you still shun it?

As for a GCP, a hypothetical straight GCP is a more attractive idea than the PSP because if you own a GCN you'd only need to buy one game and be able to play it on both machines. With PSP if you own a PS2 you'd still have to buy the same PS2 game in UMD format and for about the same price to boot. If you want to take the GCP idea even further, what about a single touch screen GCP with gyroscopic control? That would be even more attractive. With this you'd have the same benefit mentioned above and at the same time also have the benefit of offering something new. :wink:

jvd

07-May-2005, 08:59

But even if Xenon looks 100x better, it's not really going to change the quality of games on the PSP. The selling point would simply be, 'The most powerful handheld'.

The ports would have to be high quality and they aren't . The launch line up and whats out now is just okay . When you get mgs2 and the other triple aaa titles then you have something to go on .

One could easily turn your style of argument back onto the DS, "the PSP never had to flaunt silly gimmicks". But that wouldn't be fair either.

Mp3 playback , video playback , movie umd play back ... these are all gimmicks . At least the touch screen has added to games in a unqiue way and in doing so moved the main reason to have a hand held portable system foward . That being to play games .

It's a good thing then, that the PS2 has such a huge library that there are bound to be some good handheld versions then.

But how many people will be willing to pay for all these games when they will be playable on the ps2 / 3 at little to no cost (already owned or cheaply sold as the ps3 is out )

Not to mention that any game on the psp can be put on the ds with only image quality change . Yet a ds game wont allways be put on a psp as there is no touch screen.

It doesn't seem to me that the DS has many games coming out period. Or not as much I'd like anyhow Quallity vs quanity . I rather have 10 really good games worth playing than 50 games i would never touch. Right now that is whats happening . There are more psp games but the quality lvl (Aside from graphics ) are lower than that of the ds . Aside from that in the comming months you get some huge titles that stress all the features of the ds . Nintendodogs (mic +touch) , metriod (touch screen + wifi ) golden eye (touch screen + wifi ) animal cross (all the features )

So there will be good games and there will be a steady flow .

Now you are contradicting yourself. If you believe this, then a good game that is a recent title is still a good game.

Not at all. The game will stil lbe good but if you've just beaten it , your not going to rush out to beat it again .

Would you read a book and then a few weeks later buy the book again in paper back and read it again ? Even a few months later and I know you still wouldn't . You would say hey i own it already and i can still play it whenever i want (ps3) might as well spend my money on a new game.... oh wait these are 90% ports so there aren't many new games to choose from .

I'm pretty aware of old games. I just think it's funny for you to argue that older is better and that "fresher" is worse. If that is the case then the further back you go, the better. Why buy a DS which is relatively fresh compared to the original gameboy?

You can't get a new ds . Aside from that your making crap up now . new isn't worse than old . Except when talking about tripple a titles the port from the ps2 will be newer and freshly played vs the port for the n64 which most likely hasn't been played in longer.

Once again the what are you more likely to read . The book you read last year or the book you haven't read in 9 years ?

The book you read 3 months ago or the book you read 6 years ago ?

That is the diffrence i'm talking about . Not many people are going to rush out and buy god of war on the psp if it comes out in 5 months because most will have it on the ps2.

Let's put it this way; If the DS didn't have any innovative games using the new features (touch screen, stylus, dual screen, etc.) then all you'd have is a portable N64.
what does this have to do with anything . The fact is that nintendo does have the touch screen + dual screen and sony doesn't have those inovations .

This can only help to put a new spin on those old games. The psp will have to stay with the ports .

Would that be better than a portable PS2? Of course not. But your argument nonsensically states that yes, the portable DS would be better because of it's older library The system wouldn't be better , but the library would . Not because the games are better quality but because haven't been enjoyed in a long period of time and thus the experiance would be fresher than playing a game that you just beat a few months ago .

That is why the gameboy ports from the nes did well. Sure it would have been nice to have n64 portable games 3 years after the n64 came out (or 4 or 5) but how many people would rush out and rebuy mario 64 so quickly ? Or loz ? But many would go out and buy mario bros , mario bros 2 , mario bros 3 , the original loz , links adventures . Thats simply because they have not been played in a long time , are on systems that may not work , aren't owned anymore or simply packed away .

I don't know. It depends on what they tried to accomplish. If all the portable version was, was a straight port that didn't add anything, then I sure would hope that it wouldn't sell because I don't want publishers getting lazy. What do you think they would add ? Another 2 or 3 lvls ? mabye a new boss ? would that warrent 50$ more

If all the DS had was N64 ports, then surely the DS would lose a lot of its appeal. Of course , but it doesn't . Actually the only ports out right now are ridge racer , mario ds and rayman (dc ) . The ds has the original titles with a few ports to flush out its library .

The only two orignal games from the psp that i know of are lumenarys and mecuray . So its very much the other way around for sony .

Why would you? You've been arguing about how recent titles lessen the appeal for a portable? I knew you wanted a yes from me . But apparently all you read was the yes and not the part where I said "and had original games along with a good balance of gamecube games " IF it had a good balance like the ds has then yea i would pick it up . Though i most likely would be playing my ds more . HOpefully the gcn portable if it does come out keeps the dual screen . I'm really enjoying the touch pad . Some of the games are amazing .

Sorry to hear that. Did you pay a thing for them or were they gifts of a sort? Its alright , everyone is safe . One was from japan . It had a bad battery though , i bought it and the other was from the site in my sig .

Sony fans"? You're always saying this forum is filled with Sony fans, give me the name of 5 of them who has claimed this.
They are in posts that are still in the console forum but i would have to dig them out .

Actually it's very easy to abandon an indirect upgrade path. But Nintendo isn't going to abandon it.
I disagree . Nintendo makes moeny off the ds even at 150$ . People who's gba and sp that die or batterys go bad or are damage will most likely go to the ds than another gba . Esp since they are going to stop producing the cheaper old style gba .

I doubt nintendo will ever get rid of it . The sp will be phased out most likely as the ds hits 100$

Agreed. This has to be easier for consumers.

Its not that it has to be easier (As its very easy ) its just the time and the cost . Not many people want to buy a 1 gig memory stick to watch a movie at a good res. See that screen is really nice. But if you try and squeeze the bit rate and res of a video the screen is also very unforgiving because of its quality .

Nintendo have been kings in this field for several generations without any real competition so absolutely Nintendo is the undisputed champion. Did I ever state otherwise?

No and i never stated that you did now did i .

You know, people tried telling me the same thing when PSX came out. "Nintendo's going to crush Sony."

well the nintendo 64 did sell more than the psx . I think even the virtual boy did though i'm not too sure

Only once have I stooped to telling someone "I told you so." Check back in a year or two and see how generous I'm feeling then.

As i said its for this very reason that sony wont unseat nintendo for a long time .

When the psone came out Nintendo was very weak . They were fighting sega for many years and no longer had a solid grasp of the market . Sega miss judged the market and put out a power house of a 3d system and quickly changed course and added 3d hardware . The nintendo 64 was late . It was perfect timing for sony and they played it well .

With the ps2 , sega was almost bankrupt , it was hard for them to do anything (Though they did good all things considering and the ds has a ton of tripple a games ) . Nintendo was late once again and the xbox was late and to expensive to compete .

This generation may be diffrent. It will be sony thats late to the party , Ms will have the head start , good solid franchises and a ton of support. Not to mention that the console may scale quicker in price than the ps3 .
Then nintendo should launch around the ps3 and who knows may have more power than the ps3 or may even have an inovative feature that might draw people too it .

WIll it be enough for ms to take the market ? no not at all unless there are big problems with the ps3 . But will it allow ms to double thier market share ? most likely .

In the handhelds nintendo has been alone for a very long time . Thier brand for gameboy is much stronger than the playstaion brand . They have a system out that has good graphics and unique controlls . They also have backwards compatiblity with the gba .

I would think the psp would be like the xbox . A decent first attempt but in the end no serious threat and a building point for the next system .

IF you look at sales charts the ds is far out and with the games coming its only going to move further ahead

rabidrabbit

07-May-2005, 10:04

Aren't many of the PSP "PS2 ports" you people keep bringing in actually PSOne ports?

Ridge Racers.
It was on PSOne and the PSP version has many of the same tracks as the PSOne RR's.
It actually has more content in common with Ridge Racer, Rage Racer, and Ridge Racer 4 on PSOne , than Ridge Racer V on PS2 ;)

WipeOut Pure.
It goes back to the original WO in gameplay, an also has some of the tracks of WO2097.

Well, that's just two games, but they are the most popular ones at the moment.

pahcman

07-May-2005, 11:28

wipeout rocks! fun furios and challeging. comes with free net browser too. a must buy imo. fact i use more browser than game. my pc is not accessible not my room, so wipeout is helpful to read up on pages update, mostly text.

lumines is okay, more flashy tertis lesser stratgey or im not getting it. short burst game is all psp about, so good, but wish loading is not that bad. its not evil, but its still there.

mercury suck aviod all cost, unless want to break psp and analog stick.

PC-Engine

07-May-2005, 11:54

From Phil's post Wipeout only runs at 30fps so that's something to consider.

Kolgar

07-May-2005, 14:13

As for a GCP, a hypothetical straight GCP is a more attractive idea than the PSP because if you own a GCN you'd only need to buy one game and be able to play it on both machines.

Yep, a portable GC would rock the house for sure. I still think Nintendo could do it, too. They should do it. I'd buy one.

If you want to take the GCP idea even further, what about a single touch screen GCP with gyroscopic control? That would be even more attractive. With this you'd have the same benefit mentioned above and at the same time also have the benefit of offering something new. :wink:

OK, sure - show me why I need touch screens and gyroscopic controls, convince me they add something new and fun to games, and I'll buy it. Simple as that.

My problem with DS is that I simply haven't seen compelling examples of "gotta-have-it" game innovation in the software. It seems like Nintendo put the cart before the horse. They came up with these gimmicky features and told developers, "think up ways to use them" instead of designing specific features to address existing, specific gameplay needs.

And as I said, DS offers little to nothing for me personally. I'm sorry, the games just skew too young for me. I'm 35, an old man for crying out loud, and I'm more likely to play a Tamagotchi-type game if the "pet" in question is a Mercedes or an F1 supercar, you know what I mean?

Thank you for polite and straightfoward question. I know it was probably tempting to try and smoke me. :)

PC-Engine

07-May-2005, 14:27

OK, sure - show me why I need touch screens and gyroscopic controls, convince me they add something new and fun to games, and I'll buy it. Simple as that.

It would be missing the point to just describe what could be done not to mention an injustice. The appreciation comes from actually playing the games that put these features to use. You'd have to experience it really. For example take a look at the simple vibration pack incorporated into a controller that has done wonders for gaming. That's why every controller that comes with a console has rumble now. If I had described this rumble feature to someone they wouldn't be able to fully appreciate it.

Seriously, if you tried some games and still do not like them then you do not like them it's not a big deal. I cannot convince you buy one, in fact I don't want you to buy one without testing it out first, otherwise you'd just be disappointed if you end up not liking it, but you have to give it a try before writing it off as gimmicks. I only have one game that utilizes the touch screen Feel the Magic and it's a very fun game. Everyone who has tried it says the same. There's nothing like it. After I played it I wanted more games like it. It's simply fun. The graphics had very little to do with how much fun it is.

pahcman

07-May-2005, 14:40

OT or not.

i said psp is not worth the hype and price with defect rates..still same opinoions. but choosing DS or PSP. i take PSP. sorry nintendo. but GBA still best.

maybe GBA2 with awesome screen, more compact touchscreen use hispeed carts and real awesome 2D, wow! PSP 3D really jaggies, i hope GBA2 if 3D, use a good FSAA GPU. 2D on PSP screen rock! Lumines sharp and rich.

i feel its typical sony coming out with goods really striking first sight...with form of incompleteness. the rivals will come out with something more rounded but less striking.

see colon

07-May-2005, 14:44

It doesn't seem to me that the DS has many games coming out period. Or not as much I'd like anyhow.
while i agree with this statement, i wouldn't use that in an argument for the psp. there are easily twice the number of games in the pipe for the DS than the PSP. and look at this month's releases

DS
star wars ep III (5/4)
puyo pop fever (5/3)
need for speed underground 2 (5/10)
madagascar (5/23)

PSP
hot shots golf(5/3)
smart bomb (5/10)

the few games the DS has amounts to twice the games coming out for PSP. you can argue quality and appeal (i won't be buying madagascar, for example), but not quantity.

hey69

07-May-2005, 16:12

just taking this month as reference is realy a bad example.

someone at gaming-age has a more detailed list .. it's about 200+- for ds an,d 200+- psp games coming out this year... :roll:

see colon

07-May-2005, 17:02

does that include UMD movies? the lists i've seen show 60 or so titles in the pipe for psp thus far for this year. i'm sure more will be announced at e3. i have a hard time swallowing that 200 games are going to come out for either handheld in the next 7 months.

just some quick math that's about 30 games a month... and i'm pretty sure there's not 30 games coming out next month.

mech

07-May-2005, 17:09

Kolgar, question for you. What happens when SONY decides that a touchscreen is essential for the future of their PSP handheld line and incorporates one? Will you still shun it?

Not going to happen - how long has Nintendo been king of the hill? 16 years? Without a touchscreen? :roll: obviously PSP needs one, stat!!!

Never mind that PSP actually has better input methods than DS, such as an analog stick and more buttons (which are more comfortable no less!)

Mp3 playback , video playback , movie umd play back ... these are all gimmicks

:lol: funny, I'm loving all of these "gimmicks" and using them regularly. They were "gimmicky" enough for Nintendo to release a catridge for GBA/DS to allow you to play MP3s and movies...

But how many people will be willing to pay for all these games when they will be playable on the ps2 / 3 at little to no cost (already owned or cheaply sold as the ps3 is out )

I LOVE being able to play games on the go, much more than at home, being able to have these games on the go, ready to go at a moment's notice and pause at any time is just so appealing so at least I'm there ;) So what, because DS has a weird input method it's much better for people on the go...? Or because it's porting games that are already more than 5 years old? Because I don't get it...

Not to mention that any game on the psp can be put on the ds with only image quality change . Yet a ds game wont allways be put on a psp as there is no touch screen.

That's like saying HL2 was achievable on a Voodoo 2. Hey man, you can play HL2 without the great physics or graphics, but would it be as good a game? I don't think so.

And again, Nintendo managed to dominate the handheld market for this long without any touchscreen gimmickry (which actually makes handheld gaming more difficult, having to have a thumbstrap or stylus to play while you're on the go, wtf?)

The fact is that nintendo does have the touch screen + dual screen and sony doesn't have those inovations .

No, Sony's got a better screen, better hardware (for physics, graphics and sound) and better input methods. Much more important than a touchscreen gimmick imo.

What do you think they would add ? Another 2 or 3 lvls ? mabye a new boss ? would that warrent 50$ more

The ports on PSP you were whining about before added more than that.

The only two orignal games from the psp that i know of are lumenarys and mecuray . So its very much the other way around for sony .

And the original games I know of by Nintendo are.. erm.. uh.. yeah.

Whinging about "original games" is such a fallacy, it's about how fun the gameplay is, not about whether it's a sequel. After all, if an artist releases a new album you don't say "oh geeze, not this guy again".

the other was from the site in my sig .

I find it really repugnant that a mod is trying to get referals through his sig to some pyramid scheme, but maybe that's just me.

But if you try and squeeze the bit rate and res of a video the screen is also very unforgiving because of its quality .

What??? You're giving shit to the screen because it's too good? WTF?

I copped heaps of shit for saying that RE4 looked shit through a good display, Nintendo fanboys can't make up their mind ;)

When the psone came out Nintendo was very weak .

That's an utter lie. For example, Donkey Kong Country sold millions and millions of units, despite playstation.

Thier brand for gameboy is much stronger than the playstaion brand .

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzt.

They have a system out that has good graphics and unique controlls .

Unique and awkward. Sony has a console out with much better graphics, sound and control.

I would think the psp would be like the xbox . A decent first attempt but in the end no serious threat and a building point for the next system .

:lol: Except that PSP far outclasses what Nintendo has to offer, whereas Xbox struggled for games at first, and was only marginally more powerful than PS2.

the few games the DS has amounts to twice the games coming out for PSP. you can argue quality and appeal (i won't be buying madagascar, for example), but not quantity.

ahahhaa, you're comparing 4 games against 2, and one of which has already come out on PSP...... Such a shit comparison, sorry :)

Read what hey69 wrote :)

see colon

07-May-2005, 17:54

Never mind that PSP actually has better input methods than DS, such as an analog stick and more buttons (which are more comfortable no less!)
what? the psp and the DS have the sam amount of buttons, unless you are counting the volume buttons. and the ngage has more buttons than both the PSP and DS combined. it's awsome, lol.

ahahhaa, you're comparing 4 games against 2, and one of which has already come out on PSP...... Such a shit comparison, sorry

Read what hey69 wrote
i'm going to shout so you can understand what i said. NEITHER SYSTEM HAS BEEN RELEASING ENOUGH GAMES. the ds is releasing twice the amount of games this moth than the psp is, and somehow that's bad. yes, it's a 2:4 sperad, it's still twice as many.

hey69's source thinks that both systems are going to each have an average of 28 games a month till the end of the year. i highly doubt it.

you make reference to nintendo fanboys taking things that you think are great about the psp and considering them weaknesses, then you do the exact same thing when talking about releases.

PC-Engine

07-May-2005, 18:48

Not going to happen - how long has Nintendo been king of the hill? 16 years? Without a touchscreen? obviously PSP needs one, stat!!!

Never mind that PSP actually has better input methods than DS, such as an analog stick and more buttons (which are more comfortable no less!)

That's in the past, things change. :wink:

If Evolution has a touchscreen like DS and it becomes standard like rumble packs then SONY will jump on that bandwagon. It's common sense really. Why do you think analog control and rumble packs are standard on home consoles now???

Kolgar

07-May-2005, 18:50

Wow, jvd, looks like you sparked a firestorm with this post! Hehehehe.

Mp3 playback , video playback , movie umd play back ... these are all gimmicks . At least the touch screen has added to games in a unqiue way and in doing so moved the main reason to have a hand held portable system foward . That being to play games .

Please, quit trying to rationalize the situation to make it seem like Nintendo always knows best. It doesn't. And you're completely wrong about music and movies being gimmicks. Hello? It's called convergence. It's the way things are going, and it's what people want. I did, and I didn't even know it until Sony's PSP. Now I'm bringing music, movies, and games with me to work, on road trips, to the barber shop - and I'm loving it.

Here's the difference between PSP's features and DS's gimmicks. After PSP, I can't go back to no PSP. I won't give up my music and movies on the go. But I'll be damned if a touch stylus is going to change my life, or even be applicable to most types of games.

Not to mention that any game on the psp can be put on the ds with only image quality change . Yet a ds game wont allways be put on a psp as there is no touch screen.

Yup, sounds like a line of Nintendo PR. Oh, well, if the thought comforts you...

There are more psp games but the quality lvl (Aside from graphics ) are lower than that of the ds .

I find this "quality" mantra a tired argument that Nintendophiles have used since the PSX days. But quality alone is not enough, and anyway, die-hard Nintendophiles seem to define quality differently than everybody else. Too often it seems to be, "Nintendo = quality. Not Nintendo = no quality." It's crap.

Aside from that in the comming months you get some huge titles that stress all the features of the ds . Nintendodogs (mic +touch) , metriod (touch screen + wifi ) golden eye (touch screen + wifi ) animal cross (all the features )

Two of those titles (Nintendodogs and Animal Crossing) help prove my point that DS is aimed at a different audience than PSP - a younger market, a niche market. Look, I just spent two hours in a hair salon and I snuck in several rounds of golf on my PSP. People came over and looked at it, saying how cool it was. That's attention I don't mind. But I would never have pulled out a DS and Nintendodogs and started talking to it in that place - well, maybe if I was 12.

Would you read a book and then a few weeks later buy the book again in paper back and read it again ? Even a few months later and I know you still wouldn't . You would say hey i own it already and i can still play it whenever i want (ps3) might as well spend my money on a new game.... oh wait these are 90% ports so there aren't many new games to choose from .

Again - a popular anti-PSP sentiment that's both incorrect and reeking of Nintendo PR boolsheet. Open your mind and acknowledge that most of PSP's games offer new and different content, even if they are sequels to games that appeared on PS2.

Once again the what are you more likely to read . The book you read last year or the book you haven't read in 9 years ?

Invalid. Books don't change. PSP's games offer new and different content the PS2 versions didn't have, so it's not the exact same experience. Nintendo's doing the same thing with the Mario 64 DS port - it's not exactly the same as Mario 64, because that would be a ripoff.

Besides, Nintendo's not porting Mario 64 to DS because it was the best idea. They did it because the DS's capabilities are a lot closer to N64 than Gamecube. The decision results from limitations of the hardware, not because Nintendo's loath to rehash a game. Lord knows, Nintendo's fine with rehashes.

The only two orignal games from the psp that i know of are lumenarys and mecuray . So its very much the other way around for sony .

What, no Untold Legends? Metal Gear Acid has a new spin.

Twisted Metal, Wipeout, and Hot Shots are all arguably the very best games in their respective series. And they're beloved series that helped PSX steal the market from Nintendo. Sounds appealing to me - that's why I bought 'em.

well the nintendo 64 did sell more than the psx . I think even the virtual boy did though i'm not too sure

:roll: Dude, I'm talking about the original PlayStation. It was code-named PS-X during its development, and the name stuck until Sony released the PSone. Forget that white bastardized PSX - I'm sure Sony's trying to. :lol:

As i said its for this very reason that sony wont unseat nintendo for a long time .

When the psone came out Nintendo was very weak . They were fighting sega for many years and no longer had a solid grasp of the market .

What crap! If Nintendo lost its way in the 90s, it's their own damn fault. They weren't "weak" from battle with Sega, and if they were, that doesn't say very much for them. The fact is, Sega outmarketed them and Nintendo made dumb mistakes like CENSORING Mortal Kombat. All in the name of family entertainment - a quaint, 1950s concept that's hurting them to this day.

Sega miss judged the market and put out a power house of a 3d system and quickly changed course and added 3d hardware . The nintendo 64 was late . It was perfect timing for sony and they played it well .

Again, Nintendo screwed themselves. Why were they late? I remember them delaying the console at least twice while I waited anxiously for it. It nearly broke my heart every time they made an announcement. Finally, I got tired of waiting. I began to see a pattern - they didn't have their shit together. This was Nintendo's market to lose and they lost it on their own.

With the ps2 , sega was almost bankrupt , it was hard for them to do anything (Though they did good all things considering and the ds has a ton of tripple a games ) . Nintendo was late once again and the xbox was late and to expensive to compete .

Why is Nintendo always late? Are they stupid? Not likely. What then? I think they like to milk the hell out of their systems. "Sorry, N64's delayed until next April, but here, we're giving you Killer Instinct to play on your Super NES!" Same with the handheld market. Nintendo's fallen woefully behind Sony technologically because they rested on their laurels and just collected bushels of cash from the mobs of Gameboy users.

Enter Sony, and now Nintendo's got competition. Their schedule's all messed up, they have to actually get off their duffs or they'll lose gamers. How sad for them.

You know, people accuse Sony and Microsoft of shady tactics, while praising Nintendo for always thinking of the gamers. But I think Nintendo does a disservice when it milks a Gameboy for 10 years, offering few innovations the entire time, while the cash register rings and rings because hey - we've got a monopoly! - why push ourselves?

This generation may be diffrent. It will be sony thats late to the party , Ms will have the head start , good solid franchises and a ton of support. Not to mention that the console may scale quicker in price than the ps3 .

Then nintendo should launch around the ps3 and who knows may have more power than the ps3 or may even have an inovative feature that might draw people too it .

How can you be sure that Nintendo won't be late? I can't remember the last time they were on time with a home console release - Super NES, N64, Gamecube - all late.

And one "innovative feature" isn't going to be enough to sway gamers to Nintendo. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they've got a positioning problem. People perceive them as being for kids. Sega exploited this in the early 90s just as Sony did in the late 90s. Nintendo's not seen as "cool," and until they fix that, they have a problem.

I also hope their new innovations for Revolution are a little more practical and appealing than the innovations in the DS. Or you'll see Revolution become more of a niche console than any Nintendo system before.

In the handhelds nintendo has been alone for a very long time . Thier brand for gameboy is much stronger than the playstaion brand .

Hardly. "PlayStation" is one of the most recognizable brands in the history of brands. It's also chic. Neither can be said for Gameboy. (Which I think is another reason Nintendo experimented with dropping the Gameboy moniker from DS, which is nothing if not a Gameboy with two screens and other features.)

I would think the psp would be like the xbox . A decent first attempt but in the end no serious threat and a building point for the next system .

If Nintendo thinks as you do, they're going to be in deep sh*t very shortly.

IF you look at sales charts the ds is far out and with the games coming its only going to move further ahead

Again, it'll take some time, but PSP will make inroads. If this isn't a repeat of the way PSX stole the console market from Nintendo, I'll eat my hat.

Teasy

07-May-2005, 19:00

Kolgar

In any case, DS and PSP aren't actually going at each other head to head, are they? You can almost liken it to when PSX came out. Nintendo had delayed N64 and Super NES was still holding down the fort. Was PSX's primary competition the Super NES? No, it was the N64, just as soon as Nintendo got around to releasing it.

Many products are priced differently, many offer extra features that one or the other don't support. Its a nonsense to say they aren't competing based on this. As for being aimed at different markets, that's just a convenient excuse.

Your comparison is totally wonky BTW. The SNES had been out for 5 years before PS1 came out. The DS is a new handheld that was released only months before PSP. If anything its the GBA that's comparable to the SNES, the DS certainly isn't.

Because I'm not sure it's selling for those reasons. How many games actually use the DS's unique features to deliver gaming experiences heretofore unseen in gaming? Not very many, is my understanding. From what I gather, the DS-specific software has been slow in coming, though that situation seems to be improving now.

On launch games like Project Rub, and soon after quite a few more. I'm not going to check back and list these games unless you really want me too. Currently the system is outselling PSP by such a large margin in Japan because of Nintendogs. A game which uses all of DS's features (touch screen, microphone ect).

I'll readily admit it; I don't like the DS. It just doesn't appeal to me as a consumer. I see no pressing need for two screens in a game console. I can't see myself poking at a game machine with a pen or talking to it via a microphone. And the games skew young as always. Perhaps if Nintendo offered more content I liked, I'd be more open to DS's new features.

So what though? The PSP doesn't interest me. I see it as all style and no content, a soulless attempt to wow people with a flashy design and powerful graphics. But I don't go around being super negative about PSP. I don't post about how I think its only been released for this reason or its only selling for that reason ect. Sorry but not being interested in something isn't grounds for bad mouthing it at every opportunity.

Who ever said anything about the MegaDrive? I didn't. And anyway, I know it was 16-bit, just as I know that N64 was 64-bit.

Ok there seems to be some confusion here. You said that before PSP all that had been offered in the handheld market were 16 bit graphics. I then asked you if you thought DS only had 16 bit graphics and you said it only had n64 quality graphics ect. So I am pointing out to you that the N64 was not from the 16 bit era, I brought up the MegaDrive as a example of the 16 bit era.

I'll have to take your word on it that DS is "at least" N64 quality. From the videos I've seen, DS appears to have trouble rendering 3D as smoothly as N64.

Yeah you should take my word for it until you actually play some games on the DS. You should also stop making assumptions on why other people buy the system, certainly until you actually play the DS..

07-May-2005, 19:15

The ports would have to be high quality and they aren't . The launch line up and whats out now is just okay . When you get mgs2 and the other triple aaa titles then you have something to go on .

That's not the argument. Your argument was that once the next generation of consoles come out, the PSP loses luster. All I was saying is that Xenon could come out today and games like Wipeout and RR don't automatically look worse. It will still be the most powerful portable console till either the GBA2 or "XboxGo" comes out.

Mp3 playback , video playback , movie umd play back ... these are all gimmicks .

And why are they gimmicks? It's because they haven't been used much or widely adopted by the public. If there were 10k UMD movie titles and people were buying them, would it be a gimmick then?

At least the touch screen has added to games in a unqiue way and in doing so moved the main reason to have a hand held portable system foward . That being to play games .

And how many games have truly used the touchscreen to create a new feel? 3? Heck, only now is the Microphone being used (Nintendogs). Does that mean it's a gimmick? Again, the point is a feature IS a gimmick until it reaches some sort of mass market acceptance. If no other games ever use the touchscreen, then it's a gimmick imo. Not that this will happen mind you, I think the touchscreen is and will be a good feature. All I'm saying, is that you're judging too soon.

But how many people will be willing to pay for all these games when they will be playable on the ps2 / 3 at little to no cost (already owned or cheaply sold as the ps3 is out )

I have no idea. Like I said, if the PSP versions don't offer anything new, then I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't have bought the DS Mario if it didn't add anything new over the N64 version I have.

Not to mention that any game on the psp can be put on the ds with only image quality change . Yet a ds game wont allways be put on a psp as there is no touch screen.

Completely incorrect. Touchscreen controls could easily be duplicated (albeit clumsily) via the analog nub. You're better off chosing the microphone as a feature for your argument. And I dare say the difference in image quality would be quite large.

<Snip>

I agree with the quality vs. quantity argument wholeheartedly.

Not at all. The game will stil lbe good but if you've just beaten it , your not going to rush out to beat it again .

Again, all you're doing is saying the games on the PSP are exactly the same as they were on the PS2. This is untrue. But if the games WERE exactly the same, then I don't think they'd sell either (if people already owned the PS2 version.) I also think this is true for the DS, if I own the N64 version AND the DS version is identical, screw it, I'm not buying it. I don't care how long ago it was.

<snip stuff related to the above>

I'm pretty aware of old games. I just think it's funny for you to argue that older is better and that "fresher" is worse. If that is the case then the further back you go, the better. Why buy a DS which is relatively fresh compared to the original gameboy?

You can't get a new ds .

What the heck are you talking about? I can get a DS ANYWHERE for $149.95.

Aside from that your making crap up now . new isn't worse than old . Except when talking about tripple a titles the port from the ps2 will be newer and freshly played vs the port for the n64 which most likely hasn't been played in longer.

You mean, except when it fits your line of arguing that PSP is so powerful that it can play PS2 games which is obviously bad because we already have PS2 games. I'm not making anything up, you state quite clearly that fresh = bad, old = good.

Once again the what are you more likely to read . The book you read last year or the book you haven't read in 9 years ?

Then my question to you still stands. Why buy a DS when the original gameboy allows you to play 'the classics!"?

<snip more stuff related to EXACT ports vs. New PSP content - an argument I've beat to death previously>

what does this have to do with anything . The fact is that nintendo does have the touch screen + dual screen and sony doesn't have those inovations .

Ok, let me try it this way then to get you to understand my point.

PRETEND the DS was just a portable N64, no new features.

Now which would you argue is better? The DS (no touchscreen, etc.) or the PSP?

This can only help to put a new spin on those old games. The psp will have to stay with the ports .

This is part of the argument I'm making, that without NEW content of a sort, BOTH the DS & PSP lack appeal.

The system wouldn't be better , but the library would . Not because the games are better quality but because haven't been enjoyed in a long period of time and thus the experiance would be fresher than playing a game that you just beat a few months ago .

So basically Sony should have just created a PS1 portable?

<snip stuff related to the above question>

What do you think they would add ? Another 2 or 3 lvls ? mabye a new boss ? would that warrent 50$ more

I would hope it would add a lot more frankly. Where you draw that line is tough.

Oddly enough, UL on the PSP is/was the top selling game at EB and/or Gamestop at one point. That certainly is EXTREMELY similar to Champions and yet people still bought UL. So apparently quite a few people are willing to buy the same game.

I knew you wanted a yes from me . But apparently all you read was the yes and not the part where I said "and had original games along with a good balance of gamecube games " IF it had a good balance like the ds has then yea i would pick it up . Though i most likely would be playing my ds more . HOpefully the gcn portable if it does come out keeps the dual screen . I'm really enjoying the touch pad . Some of the games are amazing .

Now you're understanding my point that both the DS and the PSP need new exclusive content to spur sales. If all the DS had were N64 ports, then the DS would suck, imo. Yes, it's quite possible the PSP is lacking new titles right now - that would not surprise me in the least.

<snip>

Agreed. This has to be easier for consumers.

Its not that it has to be easier (As its very easy ) its just the time and the cost . Not many people want to buy a 1 gig memory stick to watch a movie at a good res. See that screen is really nice. But if you try and squeeze the bit rate and res of a video the screen is also very unforgiving because of its quality .

When I say "easier" I refer to any form that acts as a "barrier to entry". This includes price.

No and i never stated that you did now did i .

Then I don't know why you brought it up when replying to me.

while i agree with this statement, i wouldn't use that in an argument for the psp. there are easily twice the number of games in the pipe for the DS than the PSP. and look at this month's releases

You misread my argument. I wasn't saying this as a reason TO buy a PSP, I was merely countering jvd's assertion that the DS has a good mix/a good amount of games coming out soon. In fact I believe neither has enough original content yet (again, imo). I also wouldn't look just a single month. A 6 month forecast is probably more telling at this point.

FWIW - I own neither a DS or PSP. No real inclination towards either at this moment as for me, the games just aren't there yet.

hey69

07-May-2005, 19:22

the touchscreen and 2 screens arent the next coming of jesus.. jesus

PC-Engine

07-May-2005, 19:43

Snyder

07-May-2005, 19:49

jvd

07-May-2005, 20:07

Oh god this is going to be a huge post

Not going to happen - how long has Nintendo been king of the hill? 16 years? Without a touchscreen? obviously PSP needs one, stat!!!

That is fine if you want to believe that . Sony however has shown in the past that they jump on the newest control screens . Sega came out with an anlog stick , nintendo did , then sony put out the dual shock . Nintendo and sega used rumble packs then sony put out the dual shock .

They knew if they stayed with only what works for the last some odd years that the other companys would leave them in the dust . Your right that nintendo did well for 16 years with out a touch screen. But that was before they put in a touch screen. Will the psp be able to do well now that there is a next generation control scheme on a handheld ?

Never mind that PSP actually has better input methods than DS, such as an analog stick and more buttons (which are more comfortable no less!) You can fit alot of buttons on that touch screen if you so choose and its far more acurate than the thumb nob that the psp has . Don't see your aurguement here . Judging by what your saying the jaguar was the best game system ever since it has the most buttons !!!!

funny, I'm loving all of these "gimmicks" and using them regularly. They were "gimmicky" enough for Nintendo to release a catridge for GBA/DS to allow you to play MP3s and movies...

Funny , i use the touch pad each and everytime i put on the ds .

As for the nintendo movie carts . I do think it was a gimick . When did i say otherwise ? Just because nintendo did it and then sony copied them doesn't mean its not a gimick

I LOVE being able to play games on the go, much more than at home, being able to have these games on the go, ready to go at a moment's notice and pause at any time is just so appealing so at least I'm there So what, because DS has a weird input method it's much better for people on the go...? Or because it's porting games that are already more than 5 years old? Because I don't get it...

SO your saying you would buy god of war tommorow if it came out for the psp over the console version ? How about in 2 years when it comes out on the psp for 50$ and on the ps2 you can get it for 20$ ? Then add in that you can play it on the ps3 too and that 20$ value is much greater than the 50$ on the go psp which may or may not have reduced quality .

That's like saying HL2 was achievable on a Voodoo 2. Hey man, you can play HL2 without the great physics or graphics, but would it be as good a game? I don't think so. Yea okay compare something close in power . Half life 2 in my opinion could be achiveable with reduced graphics on a geforce 2 with they physics in tact .

Just look at ridge racer . The controlls are the same on the psp and the ds and both play really well . The psp has better graphics and a loweer battery life . That is the only diffrence . Graphics vs time able to be played

No, Sony's got a better screen, better hardware (for physics, graphics and sound) and better input methods. Much more important than a touchscreen gimmick imo.
Better screen that ty admits is prone to ghosting ?

Better input methods ? Your telling me you think a thumb nob that some members of this forum say they try to avoid using at all costs better than the touchscreen ?

Sorry no dice

The ports on PSP you were whining about before added more than that.

No , i don't think so at all . Dynstay warriors is exactly the same as dynstay warriors . Few of the ports add anything at all .

And the original games I know of by Nintendo are.. erm.. uh.. yeah.
You post here and don't know ?

Original ds games , Warrio ware , xxo feel the magic , yoshi touch and go , ping pals , nintendogs just to name a few .

Non orignal games , mario ds , ridgeracer ds , spiderman 2 ds and rayman.

Whinging about "original games" is such a fallacy, it's about how fun the gameplay is, not about whether it's a sequel. After all, if an artist releases a new album you don't say "oh geeze, not this guy again".

I would if metallica released the black album then again with one extra song or no extra song and expect me to pay for it all over again .

How many people own mgs2 on the ps2 ? Alot correct ? You can even get it for 20$ or less . SO tell me if they ported mgs2 to the psp how many owners of mgs2 on the ps2 are going to rebuy it ?

Not friggen many . That is called a waste of money .

I find it really repugnant that a mod is trying to get referals through his sig to some pyramid scheme, but maybe that's just me.

I find it repugnant that a user is trying to win an arguement by bringing in such a stupid thing to bitch about .

Its not a pyramid scheme and its actually legit , cnn has done storys on it and so has time magazine . As such I have never told anyone to sign up under me . I have it in my sig and that is it . I was asked by the other user about it .

What??? You're giving shit to the screen because it's too good? WTF?

I copped heaps of shit for saying that RE4 looked shit through a good display, Nintendo fanboys can't make up their mind
Wow I can see there isn't much point in talking to you as you don't read anything .

IF you play with the bit rates of movies to fit them on a smaller memory card even small changes in quality will affect the final result greatly becasue the quality of the screen is very unforgiving .

This means more money spent to use gimmicks to the highest quality

That's an utter lie. For example, Donkey Kong Country sold millions and millions of units, despite playstation.
ANd mario sunshine sold millions as did mario kart gcn .

I'm talking about brand name power . The user base was split almost evenly between sega and nitendo . Please keep up with the convo

Its apparent that your lust for sony clouds your judgement way to much. You hardly bother to read anything i wrote and even had to resort to a personal attack to make your points seem more valid .

I'm not going to bother to responed to you anymore as its apparent that you have your mind made up and you don't care if your correct or not in your assumptions .

PC-Engine

07-May-2005, 20:27

jvd

07-May-2005, 20:36

That's not the argument. Your argument was that once the next generation of consoles come out, the PSP loses luster. All I was saying is that Xenon could come out today and games like Wipeout and RR don't automatically look worse. It will still be the most powerful portable console till either the GBA2 or "XboxGo" comes out.

You know the great thing about life is you can have more than one arguement .

ALso it may be the best looking handheld (though it may not ) but you can't claim its graphics are as good as the current generation of games . That is one of its selling points . I don't think claiming hey the games look as good as last gen is going to be as good of a selling point as play current gen games on the go

And why are they gimmicks? It's because they haven't been used much or widely adopted by the public. If there were 10k UMD movie titles and people were buying them, would it be a gimmick then?
what makes the touch screen a gimick ?

The touch screen is used in almost every game for the ds . How many games use the mp3 functon so that you can listen to your own music in games ? How many movies can you buy on umd that you can't get cheaper on dvd which you can use in more places than umd ?

If you call the touch screen / dual screen a gimmick then all of the psp features fall into gimmicktry (think i made that up haha) esp since none of them further the point of a console system and that is playing games . They are all side benefits .

Just like pda features would be a gimmick for the ds .

And how many games have truly used the touchscreen to create a new feel? 3? The thing with the touch screen is its not just for a new feel but its to improve upon the current controll scheme . I would say about half the ds titles have improved upon the current scheme or done something "new" and about 75% of the games have used the touch screen aspect .

THe mic is a little diffrent with so far only 1 game using it . But i'm sure more will pop up like animal crossing .

If no other games ever use the touchscreen, then it's a gimmick imo. Not that this will happen mind you, I think the touchscreen is and will be a good feature. All I'm saying, is that you're judging too soon.
It doesn't matter if no other system ever uses a touch screen. As long as its used by the majority of the titles on the ds it isn't a gimmick. A gimmick is something flashy that is used to draw you in . IT is not something that you would intergrate into most of the games for the system .

Nintendo has intergrated the touch screen / dual screen in almost all of its games . Sometimes in stupid ways , sometimes in inspiring ways . But this is no diffrent than any other controll scheme . When the knights pad came out some games used it well and others used it badly . The anlog stick on the n64 was the same way . The dual shock was the same way .

Completely incorrect. Touchscreen controls could easily be duplicated (albeit clumsily) via the analog nub. You're better off chosing the microphone as a feature for your argument. And I dare say the difference in image quality would be quite large.

Please tell me how feel the magic would work on the psp and retain any of the fun of the ds version ?

Now tell me what the diffrence is between ridgeracer ds and ridge racer psp aside from graphics and tell me how it affects the fun of the game ?

also think this is true for the DS, if I own the N64 version AND the DS version is identical, screw it, I'm not buying it. I don't care how long ago it was.
I agree in some ways . But the psp versions are 90% identical to the console versions and more expensive . Also depending on the game i would buy it again on the ds . Conkers was a great game . I would buy it in a second for the n64 as i haven't played it in what 6 years ? But i'm not going to go buy say windwaker on a gcn portable next year . Way to soon for me to spend the money again .

What the heck are you talking about? I can get a DS ANYWHERE for $149.95. that was meant to be you can't get a new nintendo 64 or any of the older systems from nitnendo .

You can however get the games for the older sony systems and play them on brand new hardware . THe ps2 or the ps3 .

You mean, except when it fits your line of arguing that PSP is so powerful that it can play PS2 games which is obviously bad because we already have PS2 games. I'm not making anything up, you state quite clearly that fresh = bad, old = good.

No , because its not that simple and by you trying to simplify it your coming off as an ass .

Great graphics are good . Getting a game you played a few months or a year ago with the same graphics but handheld and expected to pay another 50$ for it is bad .

Playing a game 2 years ago and then seeing it offered again at 50$ for ap ortable is bad and it wont sell as well as if it was a game you played 7 years ago and could no longer play / own

Don't boil down thigns to simple yes or nos as it makes you come off like an ass and doesn't further your arguement .

Then my question to you still stands. Why buy a DS when the original gameboy allows you to play 'the classics!"?

Classics to who ?

My mother things the movies from her youth are the classics . To me the classics are from the 80s . Why would i buy something that would let me play her classics ?

To my younger cousin the classics to him are the n64 , saturn and psone , those are his first systems . So he would buy something from that era .

Not only that but most of the ports from the superness are on the gba and those games are playable on the ds . So why buy a gba to play those classics whe nyou can buy a ds and play those classics and the n64 games ?

Now which would you argue is better? The DS (no touchscreen, etc.) or the PSP?

Once again this has nothing to do with anything because no such system exsists .

Aside from that since this is the portable system we are talking about i would go with the n64 portable . 1 screen no touch pad and just n64 power of hardware and you would get a very long lasting battery . WHich to a portable system is a huge huge deal .

This is part of the argument I'm making, that without NEW content of a sort, BOTH the DS & PSP lack appeal ANd my arguement is the ds has that appeal. Its the psp that doesn't and that is the fact of the world we are living in .

So basically Sony should have just created a PS1 portable?

Perhaps . It would have been a)cheaper , b) longer battery life and c ) making original games would be cheaper as the content creation would be cheaper .

Oddly enough, UL on the PSP is/was the top selling game at EB and/or Gamestop at one point. That certainly is EXTREMELY similar to Champions and yet people still bought UL. So apparently quite a few people are willing to buy the same game.

Because there are no new orignal games . People who buy a psp have to play something . But how many are willing to keep rebuying the old games ?

I don't think mario ds added enough to mario 64 . But it was one of the original games out for the system so i picked it up .

Ibought dynasty warriors for the psp , it added nothing new . But what are you going to do with 250$ hardware look at it ?

Then I don't know why you brought it up when replying to me. my replys address multiple people , if you didn't notice

FWIW - I own neither a DS or PSP. No real inclination towards either at this moment as for me, the games just aren't there yet.

I think your missing out on some fun experiances with the ds . Go to a store and ask to try feel the magic or yoshi touch and go . After a few mins you will walk out of the store with the games and the system. Its very fun . People come over and we link up and play and just lauhg and have a good time even those who never play video games

Kolgar

07-May-2005, 21:03

On launch games like Project Rub, and soon after quite a few more.

:lol: Oh, Teasy. I'd love to reply to your entire post, but damn, I'm tired and I need a nap. Still, the above quote just floors me and tickles me at the same time. Project Rub?!!?!

No, no, I'm right. You've convinced me. PSP and DS certainly aren't direct competitors. Because there's no way in hell PSP can compete with something called Project Rub. :P

Kolgar

08-May-2005, 15:46

OK, Teasy, hopefully I can explain myself more clearly this time.

Many products are priced differently, many offer extra features that one or the other don't support. Its a nonsense to say they aren't competing based on this. As for being aimed at different markets, that's just a convenient excuse.

I understand that DS and PSP are seen as competitors because they are the two latest and greatest portables from Nintendo and Sony. (I was going to say they are each company's flagship portable, but I'm confused. Is DS now Nintendo's primary handheld? Or is GBA still king? What's a third pillar? I don't know. Does Nintendo?)

So yes, you're right, in a sense, they are competing. But that's a little like saying the Cadillac Escalade ($55,000) is competing with the Chevy Tracker ($23,000). They're both sport-utility vehicles, they both have similarities, but trying to compare their sales is really an apples-to-oranges proposition. (I admit, kind of a shitty analogy, but I can't think of anything better right now.)

My point is that DS and PSP are not competing directly for the same buyers - at least not yet. Look at their price tags. Look at their construction. Look at their feature set. Look at their games. DS is a game player through and through, with titles that primarily appeal to kids and young adults. PSP is a game player, too, but it's also a media device that Sony hopes everyone will want. (I'm sure they'd love it if one day, it was common for soccer moms to pull PSP out of their purses to show other moms the photos from last month's trip to Jamaica.)

Eventually, when PSP becomes more affordable to the kids who are today buying GBAs and DSs, you bet your socks that Sony will be competing head-to-head for Nintendo's customers. (And Apple's customers, and everybody else's.) But right now that's really not the case.

Your comparison is totally wonky BTW. The SNES had been out for 5 years before PS1 came out. The DS is a new handheld that was released only months before PSP. If anything its the GBA that's comparable to the SNES, the DS certainly isn't.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. (I've had trouble with my analogies lately. Better see a doctor.) I was trying to illustrate my belief that PSP caught Nintendo with its pants down and forced them into rushing out a new system, the DS, to shore up the defenses and prevent Sony from stealing the spotlight. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel.

The PSP doesn't interest me. I see it as all style and no content, a soulless attempt to wow people with a flashy design and powerful graphics. But I don't go around being super negative about PSP. I don't post about how I think its only been released for this reason or its only selling for that reason ect. Sorry but not being interested in something isn't grounds for bad mouthing it at every opportunity.

Teasy, that's the difference between you and me. You don't like PSP, but you understand why Sony released it and what they're trying to do. I, on the other hand, am confused by Nintendo's strategy for DS and perplexed by the design of the machine. I feel that at best, the machine is a $150 experiment; at worst, merely an attempt to cock-block Sony's PSP.

To me, DS is another sign that Nintendo is floundering in its attempts to compete with Sony, and creating unnecessary solutions to imaginary problems. I've heard all kinds of crazy statements from them over the years. The game market is in danger, it's in decline, there's a lack of innovation, gamers need new control schemes, etc., but it seems to me that the real problem is Nintendo's own declining market share in the home console market and now, this new challenge from Sony in the portable arena.

It's a little disheartening because I was once a big fan. But as a fan, as a consumer of their products, I feel they let me down with their constant delays, empty promises, spotty release schedules, and PR boolsheet. They always seem to talk the talk, but rarely, in my eyes, do they ever really step up and walk the walk. Yes, it bothers me.

Now, happy Mother's Day. I'm off to see my mommy. :wink:

PC-Engine

08-May-2005, 16:14

PSP is directly competing with DS, because a person in teh market for a portable will have to choose between a DS and PSP, they're not going to buy both at those prices...

Phil

08-May-2005, 16:20

see colon

08-May-2005, 16:20

they're not going to buy both at those prices...
i did.

trinibwoy

08-May-2005, 16:22

In other words, if PSP weren't around, wouldn't change the fact that Nintendo DS does not appeal to me and therefore I wouldn't buy it regardless. Because PSP does appeal to me, means I will likely buy one at some point. I believe Kolgar is one of those people to that isn't appealed by what Nintendo is offering.

Ditto.

PC-Engine

08-May-2005, 17:00

Guess what, people buying a BMW M3 aren't likely to be buying Mercedes SLK as a second car either, but does that mean they are targeting the same people? Not directly.

What Kolgar is saying that there are usergroup x that is likely more interested in product r and that there is another usergroup y that is more interested in u. Just because u might not be available, doesn't mean usergroup y will go and buy product r.

In other words, if PSP weren't around, wouldn't change the fact that Nintendo DS does not appeal to me and therefore I wouldn't buy it regardless. Because PSP does appeal to me, means I will likely buy one at some point. I believe Kolgar is one of those people to that isn't appealed by what Nintendo is offering.

It doesn't matter who SONY is trying to target. The fact is most people are not going to be buying two portable gaming machines at those prices, just like the fact a person isn't going to be buying a M3 and a C series Benz. A person who is contemplating between a M3 and a C series Benz might go in either direction regardless of what BMW tries to do. Cost is a big factor contrary to what some people would like to think. Sure you can find exceptions like Kolgar, but it works both ways. A person who doesn't want to spend over $200 isn't going to purchase a PSP.

they're not going to buy both at those prices...
i did.

Well then you're in the minority.

Phil

08-May-2005, 17:06

PC-Engine

08-May-2005, 17:21

It doesn't matter who SONY is trying to target.

Yes it does - what you're saying it basically that any product is competing directly with any product simply because people have limited resources to satisfy their needs.

Sony is not targeting the majority of GameBoy users - I think this is quite obvious - unless you're willing to argue that the Gameboy userbase consists of all adults that are willing to spend that amount of money for a slick looking gaming device?

Uh no that's not what I'm saying but thanks for quoting out of context. Every company tries to target certain demographics. Does that mean everyone who buys their products fall into that demographic? There will always be overlapping no matter who SONY tries to target and they don't have any control over that demographic. You're dreaming if you think SONY wants the PSP to be a niche market product like the M3. Of course they want to convert GB users over who wouldn't? Problem is they can't at the current time due to PSP price. You think PSP will continue to sell at its current selling price without dropping it in the future? So in summary PSP is directly competing with DS for consumer dollars whether they like to admit it or not.

rabidrabbit

08-May-2005, 17:27

I agree with what was said above.
I wouldn't have bought DS either even if SP had never come to market.
DS just has zero appeal to me, as did GBA and GB before that.

A portable GameCube on the other hand would have much appeal to me, if Nintendo had released such device instead of DS, I would have strongly considered buying it instead of PSP, or bought both.
If Nintendo would release such soon, I would still consider buying it and use it along with my PSP.

So yes, I think PSP and DS are not aiming the same market directly.
Except those more mature gamers that want a portable, and had a GBA already, might consider moving forward to PSP ;)

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000193042414/
http://img101.echo.cx/img101/5808/03996312953304865iu.jpg
http://img101.echo.cx/img101/4674/81548398595481497dk.jpg

PC-Engine

08-May-2005, 17:32

08-May-2005, 18:40

jvd, I'm going to boil down the arguments as they've meandered some.

You: DS has older titles which is more appealing because they're older.

Me: Old or new, if the content is not new in some form, then there is little appeal, DS or PSP.

Personally I feel neither has enough original content..yet(at least for me). I am more than willing to believe that the DS is ahead in this regard. No problem there.

You: mp3 and UMD movies are gimmicks on the PSP.

Me: Gimmicks are called gimmicks because they have not been widely adopted by the consumer. If everyone was using the PSP as an mp3 player or if UMD movies were being sold and viewed by many PSP owners, it would not be a gimmick any longer.

The microphone IS a gimmick on the DS but over time, may move away from this.

The touchscreen is LESS gimmicky but (imo) still somewhat of one as there isn't enough good use out of it...yet.

In essence, "gimmicktry" (yes, you are probably the first to have used this word) is something that can change over time.

PC-Engine

08-May-2005, 18:56

If everyone was using the PSP as an mp3 player or if UMD movies were being sold and viewed by many PSP owners, it would not be a gimmick any longer.

You actually believe UMD movies and MP3 playback on PSP will catch on?

rabidrabbit

08-May-2005, 19:12

I do think it'll catch on.

I've used the PSP for over a week now just for listening mp3's and watching videos.

The MP3 quality is very very good, and although the PSP is much clumsier size than dedicated mp3 players it still does the job well enough for me, and I think it'll do for many others too.
It doesn't replace your iPod if you already own one, but for reborn portable virgins like me who las owned a portable CD player, it's great.

The video play has no competition really, and is a feature I can see catching on. It's been great to view some encoded movies from memorystick on a loner train trips and while a passenger in a car.
The screen does make it feel not like you're watching some small portable, but like watching a good size tv. Of course all the detail is not there, but it doesn't seem to loose much even with self encoded movies, I'll wait with interest what it'll look like on proper UMD movies.

And music videos on UMD, that's one thing I can really see getting many people interested.

I wouldn't of course use these features if I just go on the town for a quick, I don't think it was ever visioned to be like that but a media player that you take along if you are going to stay on a journey for hour or so, or going to stay on some place longer.

Or maybe my likeing the PSP MP3 and video is just because I haven't yet received any games for it :)
But I believe when I finally get games for it, I'll still be using it a lot for mp3 and video.

So I don't see them as some superficial addon that few people are going to use, but as something that has potential to "catch on", not hugely catch on, but enough to survive and even prosper.

PC-Engine

08-May-2005, 20:21

I'd say you're in the minority.

rabidrabbit

08-May-2005, 21:09

I got that already from your opinion.

08-May-2005, 21:09

You actually believe UMD movies and MP3 playback on PSP will catch on?

Frankly I think the use of the PSP as a mp3 player will be extremely limited.

UMD? I'm not so sure yet. Much of this depends on how well Sony is at getting this pushed out to consumers and so far I'm unimpressed.

I think Sony should start packaging UMD versions of their movies for free with the DVD version. Or perhaps a different package where the UMDs are packed in for a nominal fee. Something, anything to get consumers to adopt it.

Snyder

08-May-2005, 21:39

the touchscreen and 2 screens arent the next coming of jesus.. jesus

But it allows games to be played in a new way and most people who have played the games in this new way say it's much more interesting than just better graphics. :wink:

You know most people who have played DS games? Cool.

Most people who I've talked to at gaming shops who have played both DS and PSP games liked DS's control better compared to PSP standard interface. They said PSP has nice graphics but it's just the same old stuff they've been playing on Xbox, PS2, etc. Now take that small random sample and scale it to the rest of the gaming population and you could get a rough estimate.

Well, and here we have the crux of the problem. Who are you to say that "most people who I've talked to at gaming shops who have played both DS and PSP games" are a demographically/statistically representative group that allows extrapolating to the gaming population?
That's anecdotal evidence and, as it is, statistically worthless.

rabidrabbit

08-May-2005, 22:01

Most people don't talk to strangers at game shops.
Most people don't ask strangers does he like this or that better.
Most people would not answer if a stranger would come and question them at game shops.
:)

jvd

08-May-2005, 22:34

PC-Engine

08-May-2005, 23:29

Well, and here we have the crux of the problem. Who are you to say that "most people who I've talked to at gaming shops who have played both DS and PSP games" are a demographically/statistically representative group that allows extrapolating to the gaming population?
That's anecdotal evidence and, as it is, statistically worthless.

Uh there is no problem. People who visit game shops are most likely gamers and as such they're the ones who will end up buying these machines. It's the same as people who visit comic book shops. If most people say they prefer X comic over Y comic then most likely that's the case for most comic readers. Same with game titles by region of course. If most people purchased PS2s over Xbox at XYZ store then it's mostly likely that's the trend for the majority of the gaming community. And finally an interface is region agnostic so it doesn't matter what region of the world we are talking about.

Most people don't talk to strangers at game shops.
Most people don't ask strangers does he like this or that better.
Most people would not answer if a stranger would come and question them at game shops.

Your point? :lol:

Kolgar

09-May-2005, 05:13

With Nintendo dominating the portable market, it would be easier for them to branch out into the higher end market while at the same time covering the lower and middle end. SONY isn't in any position to do that no matter how much they'd want to.

Except Nintendo won't, and Sony doesn't have to. Sony's going to implement the same "trickle-down" strategy that worked so well with the original PlayStation.

First, they come in at the high end of the market with a cool, "grown-up" machine that captures the early adopters and hardcore... they drop the price at a predetermined point to accelerate sales and expand adoption to a new group of consumers... they round out their software library with games in every genre to appeal to every audience... they drop the price a second time to penetrate still further into the mass market... continue building the software library... and voila - another PlayStation empire is built.

Except PSP is unique enough that it will actually create a new market - that for an all-in-one, portable media device that plays games, movies, music, and photos. This little machine's influence and acceptance will reach far beyond that of the existing market for portable game players.

By the time Sony releases PSP3, this thing could be as ubiquitous as the wristwatch. :wink:

Kolgar

09-May-2005, 05:29

To expand on that "empire building" comment I made in my last post: Sony's handling of the original PlayStation, and now PSP, shows that it knows how to enter a market and systematically take it over.

You start at the high end and over time, you "trickle down" to the mass market. If it's good enough to cause a flap among the hardcore and enthusiasts at $299 or $249, it's sure as hell good enough for casual users, kids, your mom, and your dog by the time it hits $149 or $99.

This is in stark contrast to Nintendo, which often tries to come in at an affordable price and targeting a younger audience. The problem is, those young kids always want what older kids and adults have.

Maybe they want to feel "grown up," or maybe they just think that slick black PSP their dad plays is the coolest damn thing they've ever seen. Either way, they'll want it, and sooner or later, the price will come down enough for them to have it.

It's a beautiful model, and scary powerful. If I were Nintendo right now, I'd be stocking up on clean underwear, 'cuz the next few years are gonna be messy.

PC-Engine

09-May-2005, 06:16

Then you wake up from your dream to face reality--> 5Million+ DS's vs 2Million PSP's. :lol:

rabidrabbit

09-May-2005, 08:33

The MP3 quality is very very good, and although the PSP is much clumsier size than dedicated mp3 players it still does the job well enough for me, at around 250$ more than a dedicated mp3 player

1 gig flash mp3 player would set u back about 100$ usd . 1 gig psp mp3 player would set you back 350$ +

Umd movies . Well sony is just being dense .

They want you to buy movies on dvd then on umd and then again on bluray soon . You as a consumer are happy about this ? Esp when they charge you more for the umd media than the dvd media ? You could get pirates of the carbian for 15$ on dvd , its 20$ + on umd . It wont catch on unless its less than a dvd or sony comes out with cheap home players but then again not many will want to watch a umd quality movie on a tv
:? why are you comparing the prices of a simple flash mp3 player and PSP ?
The fact PSP is more expensive than a flash player that only plays mp3's doesn't change the fact that the sound quality is very good.
´
The UMD's atr the price thay are sold now will have hard time catching on, but if the prices fall or even if an UMD is to be bundled with DVD (at premium price) it should be better.

In addition to UMD, there is another way to view videos on PSP, that has much more potential.
Download them to a memorystick. Already there are many sites that offer free content to download to your PSP, I think it'll be not long when better commercial content will become available. Sony's connect will most likely start offering dl's at cost, I can see MTV doing something with music videos etc...

mech

09-May-2005, 10:03

A fairer comparison would be to one of those flash based video players - PSP has a much bigger and better screen, is cheaper, plays games and UMDs, and looks a lot sexier!

PSP is damn good value, comparing it to a flash memory MP3 player is hilarious - the mp3s are added value, not the only reason he bought it...

mech

09-May-2005, 10:04

Oh yeah, and hopefully one day we'll be able to stream video over wi-fi.. damn that would be handy/cool.

Like on a plane - I'm going o/s on a trip with my mates this year, how sweet would it be to have one laptop and everyone can just stream their movies off it?!? Suuuuuuuh-weeeeeet :)

Kolgar

09-May-2005, 14:18

PC-Engine

09-May-2005, 14:33

Then you wake up from your dream to face reality--> 5Million+ DS's vs 2Million PSP's. :lol:

Oh, please. This is the best reply you could come up with? PC-Engine, you disappoint me. I thought you were smarter than that.

Hey it's essentially a prediction nothing more. What do you want me to say? I can predict Evolution being a generation ahead of PSP too and also being backwards compatible with GBA too, but I won't go that far.

mech

10-May-2005, 00:17

You also predicted that next gen consoles would run at 1Ghz, see where that got you? ;)

Teasy

10-May-2005, 01:10

It's a beautiful model, and scary powerful. If I were Nintendo right now, I'd be stocking up on clean underwear, 'cuz the next few years are gonna be messy.

I've really heard everything now. Obviously being well in the lead doesn't panic Nintendo as much as it does you..

BTW I have to say the way you talk about PSP I think you may be the one who needs to stock up on clean underwear mate :)

Phil

10-May-2005, 01:33

well, I guess only time will show - but I do see things very much like Kolgar. In fact, I remember saying the same things a few months back when PSP was revealed and I sort of got the same reaction back then too.

I also predicted back then that Nintendo will have some lead with the DS, as PSP will be bought by a different audience in its beginning phases - which in fact I think that's exactly the situation we're seeing now. Obviously, no one knows how this will turn out from here, but I'm quite sure that Sony has some strategic plans (price drops, software) coming up which will play a significant role in how the PSP will position itself in the future.

I think Kolgar is pretty spot on that price drops and better software support will soon give a boost to sales and especially leverage the target audience with Gameboy users more directly. I don't really see PSP ever targeting 10 - 14 year olds though, but I do see that the segment of 15+ will show interest and definately the main target audience of 20+ and above (which are the ones buying one now).

If you look at how the PlayStation sold back in 1994/95 - it sure didn't look like a big success - yet it certainly became one and the biggest one to that time.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps_e.html

I think writing the PSP off just yet and making such comments might just bite you back - just considering Nintendo already lost one time and I don't see the Nintendo DS as the perfect handheld to protect them from a similar faith - despite its lead which is unsurprising anyway.

Kolgar: PM!!!!!111 :evil:

Teasy

10-May-2005, 01:57

I haven't read all posts here but I don't think anyone's writing the PSP off. On the other hand the DS is being written off by some here.

10-May-2005, 02:33

I haven't read all posts here but I don't think anyone's writing the PSP off. On the other hand the DS is being written off by some here.

IMO, the DS shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.

Teasy

10-May-2005, 02:50

No I don't suppose it should have been.

see colon

10-May-2005, 03:19

I think writing the PSP off just yet and making such comments might just bite you back - just considering Nintendo already lost one time and I don't see the Nintendo DS as the perfect handheld to protect them from a similar faith - despite its lead which is unsurprising anyway.
while i can completely agree with this statement, it's important to note that the nintendo's and sony's machines launched at much different times in the 32/64 bit era. sony had an 18 month(?) lead on the n64 and fought a pretty successfull war against sega durring that time, capturing a decent portion of the market, mindshare, and 3rd party support. part of the reason nintendo "lost" that generation was because of the momentum sony had.

with the DS/PSP both sytems are launching close enough where people at least know the other system is coming out, have a decent idea on price and performance, and a pretty decent idea on how the games compare when they are buying one. even in europe (where the psp isn't out yet) people can go online or see screenshots and previews in magazines.

PC-Engine

10-May-2005, 06:08

mech

10-May-2005, 06:22

You also predicted that next gen consoles would run at 1Ghz, see where that got you? ;)

That predction was based on the assumption they would choose to follow a low clock speed route instead of a high clock speed route to get high performance ie the route GPUs are going. :wink:

Also see colon made a good point.

Weaksauce... they are going relatively low speed with their Ghz! After all, we're looking at 3 and 9 core CPUs here.. how can you have even lower Ghz with similar performance? :D

Edit: Anyway, we're going way off topic here, we'll have to dig out that old thread when the PS3 gets officially announced and hash it out there ;)

jvd

10-May-2005, 07:30

The problem is in the hand held world nintendo has faced many a time a more power full handheld and has every single time smashed it into the ground .

Many sony fans from the console forum swore that the psp would crush the ds and the ds would provide no competition . Meanwhile its turning out the other way around .

Sony imho forgot what was important about a hand held . Cost and battery life . Now its bitting them in the ass .

It might actually get worse as i hear madcatz is going to release a 26 hour battery for the ds (18 hour wifi ) for 50$ during or after e3 .

That is a huge diffrence from the 5 -7 hour battery life of sonys 50$ battery .

This is what sega learned with the nomad . Its graphics were stunning , i dare say better than the gba sp and it played genesis games with out a need to rebuy them . But it lasted 4 hours on 6 double a batterys and that is what killed it

PC-Engine

10-May-2005, 08:13

Weaksauce... they are going relatively low speed with their Ghz! After all, we're looking at 3 and 9 core CPUs here.. how can you have even lower Ghz with similar performance?

Why is it weak sauce? Why don't we have 3GHz GPUs? I was applying the same low clock, high performance design philosophy of GPUs to CPUs because consoles are small, I predicted low clock, low power, low heat which made sense. I guess I didn't factoring in the high GHz number which is good for marketing though. :lol:

In microprocessor design there's always a compromise/tradeoff between clockspeed and performance. If you have high clockspeed then per clock cycle you wouldn't be able to do much. If you design your IC around high instructions per clock then you won't be able to get high clock speeds. Where you draw the line depends on what you're trying to achieve. And yes we're going off topic so I won't continue this discussion.

This is what sega learned with the nomad . Its graphics were stunning , i dare say better than the gba sp and it played genesis games with out a need to rebuy them . But it lasted 4 hours on 6 double a batterys and that is what killed it

Same with the TurboExpress.

mech

10-May-2005, 08:23

I find my PSP battery lasts for ages. I'm never more than 5 hours between charges. You can buy powerpack for $20 to double your capacity if you really want.

The old handhelds required either costly alkalines, or expensive rechargeable batteries that didn't last very long. We're talking like a 1 hour charge with the rechargeables, with a 12-15 hour recharge time. There's just a wee bit of a difference with the PSP - the rechargeable battery is built in, it's easy to charge, you can charge and play at the same time, it lasts for a LOT longer than the old handhelds, and you can replace your battery very easily (unlike with Nintendo handhelds).

So it's a weak comparison really.

PCE: I told you, we'll hash it out when PS3 is announced in a couple of weeks ;)

london-boy

10-May-2005, 09:28

This is what sega learned with the nomad . Its graphics were stunning , i dare say better than the gba sp and it played genesis games with out a need to rebuy them . But it lasted 4 hours on 6 double a batterys and that is what killed it

How is that related to PSP? More power requires more electricity. Or are we going to keep GBA kind of graphics for the sake of "battery life"? Which, as it stands, is more than decent on PSP, considering what it does. New batteries will come out to make it better.

PC-Engine

10-May-2005, 09:58

london-boy

10-May-2005, 10:23

Nintendo doesn't want to lose butloads of money by rushing a powerful handheld to market that requires a 4800mAh battery. That's why they are waiting to launch Evolutiion when battery technolgy gets cheaper for the same capacity. Why do you think SONY had to clock lock PSP at 222MHz???

Whatever the reason, it's pretty much like saying "MS wanted to wait till they got the Xbox powerful enough at a good price". Or saying "Sony will wait till PS3 is powerful enough and not prohibitely expensive to manufacture".
In the end, the platforms need to be released, Sony think that they're ready to support PSP as it is now, if then Nintendo comes out with something more powerful (which eventually will happen), then who cares? I don't see anyone complaining about PSP battery life apart from people who don't own one. Or JVD, but trying to please that man is like finding a G spot.

Kolgar

10-May-2005, 13:23

The problem is in the hand held world nintendo has faced many a time a more power full handheld and has every single time smashed it into the ground .

Many sony fans from the console forum swore that the psp would crush the ds and the ds would provide no competition . Meanwhile its turning out the other way around .

Oh. My. God.

jvd! Um, hello? I think it's a little early to tell PSP's impact on the portable market just yet. And I think it's a little too early to declare DS a winner... (And by "winner," I don't just mean a sales leader... I mean, a viable platform with the legs to last several years with a steady supply of great games.) Let's wait and see how all this "third tier" stuff gets sorted out, and what that means to DS in the future.

My gosh, you're so eager to see Sony fail. I can understand you not wanting Nintendo to get their asses handed to them on a silver platter like Sony did to them in the console biz, but jeez, come on. Just let things play out. Don't jump to conclusions. Most of all - if you're going to be a rabid f*nboy, at least yoke it back a little so it doesn't taint the logic of your posts.

Phil

10-May-2005, 14:34

while i can completely agree with this statement, it's important to note that the nintendo's and sony's machines launched at much different times in the 32/64 bit era. sony had an 18 month(?) lead on the n64 and fought a pretty successfull war against sega durring that time, capturing a decent portion of the market, mindshare, and 3rd party support. part of the reason nintendo "lost" that generation was because of the momentum sony had.

Hmm, I was under the assumption that the PS had quite a struggle and only started to sell after the N64 had launched (period of Mai 1996 - Nov 1996). After that, it just started to sell like mad, as the numbers indicate (from 5 million shipped in Mai 1996 to 13 million in March 1997).

When did the N64 launch anyway - which month of 1996 and in which regions?

Anyway, I also thought the N64 and the PS were neck at neck for a very long time, but maybe I'm mixing this up with the NA situation where the N64 did stay quite competitive until before PSone was introduced?

Kolgar PM! :evil: :evil: :D

see colon

10-May-2005, 16:16

New batteries will come out to make it [the PSP] better
actualy, new batteries will come out to make it the same. once sony removes the mhz cap from the developers the machine is going to chew threw batteries even faster.

to be honest, right now i think the psp battery lasts long enough. i haven't really done marathon tests like i have with some of my other consoles, but charging it isn't getting in the way as much as i expected it to. i think the 222mhz cap and (from what i hear) stronger batteries for the NA units really helps sony reach the sweet spot for right now. the battery life i get out of my DS, though, is rediculous. i play it daily and charge it once a week, maybe.

Hmm, I was under the assumption that the PS had quite a struggle and only started to sell after the N64 had launched
i think it was the battle with sega that cemented sony's position as the market leader that generation. but, i have no numbers or links to back that up.

archie4oz

14-May-2005, 19:03

That is fine if you want to believe that . Sony however has shown in the past that they jump on the newest control screens . Sega came out with an anlog stick , nintendo did , then sony put out the dual shock . Nintendo and sega used rumble packs then sony put out the dual shock .

Control screens?

Sega wasn't the first out with an analog stick. Analog sticks have been around for ages before any of the three started making consoles. As for "rumble packs", Sony's DAP was released before Nintendo or Segas rumble packs (and it was of course built in, not an add-on)

In microprocessor design there's always a compromise/tradeoff between clockspeed and performance. If you have high clockspeed then per clock cycle you wouldn't be able to do much. If you design your IC around high instructions per clock then you won't be able to get high clock speeds.

Actually you're off a bit there... Thermal conditions, current leakage and signal propogation tend to play a bigger role than this nebulous "high instructions per clock".

PC-Engine

14-May-2005, 22:11

As for "rumble packs", Sony's DAP was released before Nintendo or Segas rumble packs (and it was of course built in, not an add-on)

Yeah and now they're being sued.

Actually you're off a bit there... Thermal conditions, current leakage and signal propogation tend to play a bigger role than this nebulous "high instructions per clock".

Current leakage was never much of an issue during the 180nm days. All other factors being equal, high clockspeed designs usually have a tradeoff of being able to do less per cycle than a low clockspeed design.That's why you don't see 3GHz GPUs. If ATI designed a 3GHz GPU tommorrow it wouldn't be able to do the same amount of work per cycle as a 500MHz GPU. It would do less per cycle, again all other factors like transistor counts, fab process, etc. being equal.

jarrod

15-May-2005, 01:29

just taking this month as reference is realy a bad example.

someone at gaming-age has a more detailed list .. it's about 200+- for ds an,d 200+- psp games coming out this year... :roll:
That'd be me, current (pre-E3) announced game counts are 249 for DS and 212 for PSP.

see colon

15-May-2005, 01:59

That'd be me, current (pre-E3) announced game counts are 249 for DS and 212 for PSP.
that's total games in development, correct? as in, they aren't all coming out in 2005.

jarrod

15-May-2005, 16:30

That'd be me, current (pre-E3) announced game counts are 249 for DS and 212 for PSP.
that's total games in development, correct? as in, they aren't all coming out in 2005.
Correct. It also counts already released titles. Here's the list, with confirmed US releases bolded.....

Nintendo DS Games
-A Boy and His Blob: Jelly's Cosmic Adventure (Majesco)
-Advance Wars 3: Battle for Omega Land (Nintendo)
-Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings (Majesco)
-Animal Crossing to Go! (Nintendo)
-Animaniacs: Lights, Camera, Action (Ignition Entertainment)
-Animetic RPG (Arika)
-Another Code (Nintendo)
-Armored Core series (From Software)
-Asphalt Urban GT (UbiSoft)
-ATV Quad Frenzy (Majesco)
-Barnyard (THQ)
-Baten Kaitos DS (Namco)
-Batman Begins (Electronic Arts)
-Big Mutha Truckers DS (THQ)
-Blades of Thunder 2 (SummitSoft)
-Black & White Creatures (Majesco)
-Bleach (Sega)
-Boktai (Konami)
-Bokujou Monogatari: Korobokkle Station (Marvelous Interactive)
-Bomberman DS (UbiSoft)
-Bouken-Ou Beet (Bandai)
-Bubble Bobble Revolution (Majesco)
-Bukyou (Starfish)
-Bust-A-Move DS (Majesco)
-Cabela's Dangerous Hunts 06: Kill Or Be Killed (Activision)
-Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow (Konami)
-Choro Q DS (Atlus)
-Cocoto Card Racer (BigBen Interactive)
-Crash Tag Team Racing (VU Games)
-Deep Labyrinth (Interactive Brains)
-Def Jam Vendetta (Electronic Arts)
-Devlish: Ball Bounder (Starfish)
-Disney's Kim Possible 4: Communicator (Disney Interactive)
-Disney's Lizzie McGuire (Disney Interactive)
-Disney's That's So Raven (Disney Interactive)
-Dinsey/Pixar's Cars (THQ)
-Disney/Pixar's Finding Nemo (THQ)
-Disney/Pixar's The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer (THQ)
-Dobutsu Shima no Chibi Gurumi 3 (Rocket Company)
-Dragon Ball Z: Super Sonic Warriors 2 (Atari)
-Dragon Booster (Konami)
-Dragon Quest Monsters series (Square Enix)
-Dragon Quest Slime Morimori 2 (Square Enix)
-Dress (Bandai)
-Dust & Shadows (Neko Entertainment)
-Dynasty Warriors (Koei)
-Egg Monster Heroes (Square Enix)
-Europa Universalis II (Pocket PC Studios)
-Eye Shield 21 (Nintendo)
-Fairly Odd Parents (THQ)
-Feel the Magic: XY-XX (Sega)
-Final Fantasy III (Square Enix)
-Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles series (Square Enix)
-Ford Racing 3 (2K Games)
-Franklin (Neko Entertainment)
-Frogger: Helmet Havoc (Konami)
-Fushugino Dungeon Pokémon World: Pikachu's Adventure (ChunSoft)
-Ganbare Goemon! Toukai Douchuu Ooedo Tenguri-kaeshi no Maki (Konami)
-Garfield: Battle for Home (Game Factory)
-Goldeneye: Rogue Agent (Electronic Arts)
-Golden Nugget Casino DS (Majesco)
-GT-DS Racing (MTO)
-Guilty Gear Dust Strikers (Majesco)
-Guruguru Nagetto (Success)
-Guruguru Omiseyasan Gokko (Bandai)
-Hagane no Renkinjutsushi: Dual Symphony (Bandai)
-Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (Electronic Arts)
-Intelligent License (Now Production)
-Jam with the Band (Nintendo)
-James Bond 007: From Russia with Love (Electronic Arts)
-JAWS Unleashed (Majesco)
-Jeff Corwin Experience (Conspiracy Entertainment)
-Jikkyo Powerful Pro Yakyuu series (Konami)
-Jinsei Game DS (Atlus)
-Jissen Pachislot Hisshopou! Fist of the North Star DS (Sega)
-Johnny Rocketfingers (Conspiracy Entertainment)
-Jump Super Stars (Nintendo)
-Kaido Racing Battle (Genki)
-Katamari Damacy DS (Namco)
-Kawaii Koinu DS (MTO)
-Kawa no Nushi Tsuri DS (Marvelous Interactive)
-Kenshuui Tendou Dokuta (Spike)
-Kerokero King (Bandai)
-Keroro Gunsou (Bandai)
-Kirby: Canvas Curse (Nintendo)
-Living High↑Killing Low↓ (Genki)
-Londonian Gothics: Mekyuu no Lolita (Mega Cyber)
-Lost in Blue (Konami)
-Lucky Star (Kadowkawa Shoten)
-Lunar Genesis (UbiSoft)
-Madagascar (Activision)
-Madden NFL 2005 (Electronic Arts)
-Madden NFL 06 (Electronic Arts)
-Magical Vacation II (Nintendo)
-Mahjong Taikai (Koei)
-Mahou Touch! (Bandai)
-Mario & Luigi 2 (Nintendo)
-Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
-Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects (Electronic Arts)
-Meikyuu (Aruze)
-Megaman Battle Network 5 DS: Twin Leaders (Capcom)
-Meteos (Nintendo)
-Metroid Dread (Nintendo)
-Metroid Prime: Hunters (Nintendo)
-Metroid Prime: Pinball (Nintendo)
-Midway Arcade Compilation (Midway)
-Mikke! (Aki)
-Mini R/C Racing (Game Factory)
-Minna no Mahjong DS: Kenkou Mahjong (MTO)
-Mobile Suit Gundam SEED (Bandai)
-Momotarou Densetsu World (Hudson)
-Monolpoly DS (DSI Games)
-Monster Summoner (Ertain)
-Monster Rancher Jamboree (Tecmo)
-Moonlight Fables (Majesco)
-Mr Driller: Drill Spirits (Namco)
-Nanostray (Majesco)
-Naruto RPG 2 (TOMY)
-Naruto: Saikyo Ninja Daikesshu 3 (TOMY)
-NBA Live 06 (Electronic Arts)
-Need for Speed Most Wanted (Electronic Arts)
-Need for Speed Underground 2 (Electronic Arts)
-Nicktoons (THQ)
-Nintendo Tetris (Nintendo)
-Ochaken DS (MTO)
-Ouendan (Nintendo)
-One Piece Grand Battle! (Bandai)
-Pac n' Roll (Namco)
-Pac-Pix (Namco)
-Peter Jackson's King Kong (UbiSoft)
-Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Capcom)
-Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Disney Interactive)
-Pokémon Dash (Nintendo)
-Pokémon Diamond Version (Nintendo)
-Pokémon Pearl Version (Nintendo)
-Polarium (Nintendo)
-Power Pro Pocket Koushien (Konami)
-Prince of Persia: Warrior Within (UbiSoft)
-Professional Wrestling (Yukes)
-Puyo Pop Fever (Atlus)
-Rainbow Islands Revolution (Rising Star Games)
-Rally DS (Spike)
-Rayman DS (UbiSoft)
-Rakugaki Oukoku series (Taito)
-Real Time Conflict: Shogun Empires (Namco)
-Rekishi Simulation (Koei)
-Retro Atari Classics (Atari)
-Ridge Racer DS (Namco)
-Robots (VU Games)
-SBK: Snowboard Kids DS (Atlus)
-Scooby-Doo! Unmasked (THQ)
-SD Gundam G Generation DS (Bandai)
-Sea World Adventure Parks: Season Pass (Activision)
-Secret of Mana series (Square Enix)
-Sentouin Yamada Hajime 2 (Kids Station)
-Shaman King (Konami)
-Shin Megami Tensei DS (Atlus)
-Shrek Super Slam (Activision)
-Simple DS series: The Billiards (D3 Publisher)
-Simple DS series: The Mah-jong (D3 Publisher)
-Simple DS series: The Mushitori Oukoku (D3 Publisher)
-Snood 2: Lost in Snoodville (DSI Games)
-Sonic Rub (Sega)
-Space Invaders Revolution (Mastiff)
-Spectral Force (Idea Factory)
-Spider-Man 2 (Activision)
-SpongeBob SquarePants: The Yellow Avenger (THQ)
-Sprung (UbiSoft)
-Spyro the Dragon: Shadow Legacy (VU Games)
-SRS: Street Racing Syndicate (Namco)
-SSX: On Tour (Electronic Arts)
-Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (UbiSoft)
-Super Black Bass: Dynamic Shot (Starfish)
-Super Mario 64 DS (Nintendo)
-Super Mario Bros DS (Nintendo)
-Super Princess Peach (Nintendo)
-Super Robot Taisen DS (Banpresto)
-Tak: The Great Juju Challenge (THQ)
-Tantei Adventure (Kids Station)
-Tengai Maykou II: Manjimaru (Hudson)
-Tennis no Oji-Sama 2005: Crystal Drive (Konami)
-Tetris DS (THQ)
-Texas Hold 'Em Poker DS (Majesco)
-The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe (Disney Interactive)
-The Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (VU Games)
-The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures DS (Nintendo)
-The Sims 2: Nightlife (Electronic Arts)
-The Urbz: Sims in the City (Electronic Arts)
-Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005 (Electronic Arts)
-Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (UbiSoft)
-Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision)
-Touch Golf (Nintendo)
-Toy Heads World (Interactive Brains)
-Trauma Center: Under the Knife (Atlus)
-Ubukawa Detective Case Files: The Masquerade Lullaby (Genki)
-Ultimate Brain Games DS (TeleGames)
-Ultimate Card Games DS (TeleGames)
-Ultimate Spider-Man (Activision)
-Urusei Yatsura (Marvelous Interactive)
-Yakuman DS (Nintendo)
-Yoshi Touch & Go (Nintendo)
-Yu-Gi-Oh! Nightmare Troubador (Konami)
-Vandal Hearts (Konami)
-Viewtiful Joe Scratch! (Capcom)
-Wac a Mole! (Activision)
-Wario Ware TOUCHED! (Nintendo)
-WiNX (Konami)
-World Poker Championship: Deluxe Edition (Crave Entertainment)
-World Soccer Winning Eleven series (Konami)
-Worms Forts: Under Seige (2K Games)
-Xenosaga DS (Namco)
-ZOIDS (TOMY)
-Zoo Keeper (Ignition Entertainment)
-Zoo Tycoon (THQ)
-Zunou Ni Asekaku Game Series: Volume 1: Cool 104 Joker & Setline (Aruze)
-Zunou Ni Asekaku Game Series: Volume 2 (Aruze)
-Zunou Ni Asekaku Game Series: Volume 3 (Aruze)

Nintendo DS Non-Games
-DS Rakuhiki Jiten (Nintendo)
-Electro Plankton (Nintendo)
-Nintendogs: Chihuahua and Friends (Nintendo)
-Nintendogs: Dachshund and Friends (Nintendo)
-Nintendogs: Shiba and Friends (Nintendo)
-Nou o Kitaeru Otona no DS Training (Nintendo)
-Organizer Plus (SummitSoft)
-Picto-Chat (Nintendo)
-Ping Pals (THQ)
-Touch DIC (Daiwon C&A Holdings)
-Yawaraka Atama Juku (Nintendo)

Nintendo DS TBA Games
-action (Alfa Unit)
-action (D3)
-action (Epoch)
-action (Now Production)
-action (Tasuke)
-action RPG (Aruze)
-action RPG (Hudson)
-card battle (Kids Station)
-board game (Work Jams)
-family (Orbital Media)
-multiplayer sports (Sega)
-platform (Orbital Media)
-racing (Orbital Media)
-RPG (GameArts)
-RPG (Marvelous Interactive)
-RPG (TOMY)
-simulation (Sunrise)
-simulation (Tasuke)
-simulation RPG (Mistwalker)
-strategy RPG (Orbital Media)
-Team Ninja project (Tecmo)

PSP Games
-50 Cent: Bulletproof (VU Games)
-Advent Shadow (Majesco)
-AI Series Mahjong (Marvelous Interactive)
-AI Series Igo (Marvelous Interactive)
-AI Series Shougo (Marvelous Interactive)
-Angel Collection (MTO)
-Ape Escape: On the Loose (SCEI)
-Archer MacLean's Mercury (Ignition Entertainment)
-Armored Core: Formula Front (Agetec)
-ATV Offroad Fury: Blazin' Trails (SCEI)
-Axel Impact International (SCEI)
-Batman Begins (Electronic Arts)
-Battlefield II: Modern Combat (Electronic Arts)
-Beatbox Studio (Coong Entertainment)
-Black & White Creatures (Majesco)
-Bleach: Heat the Soul (SCEI)
-Bleach 2 (SCEI)
-Bloodrayne 2 (Majesco)
-Bokujou Monogatari series (Marvelous Interactive)
-Bomberman: Panic Bomber (Hudson)
-Bounty Hounds (Namco)
-Burnout Legends (Electronic Arts)
-Card Shark 3 (Phoenix Games)
-Cloud of Verruca (Success)
-Coded Arms (Konami)
-Colin McRae Rally 2005 (Codemasters)
-Combat Over Europe (GMX Media)
-Crash Tag Team Racing (VU Games)
-Crazy Racing: Kart Rider (Nexon)
-Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII (Square Enix)
-DarkStalkers Chronicle: The Chaos Tower (Capcom)
-Daxter (SCEI)
-Dead to Rights Reckoning (Namco)
-Death Jr (Konami)
-Def Jam Vendetta (Electronic Arts)
-Derby Time (SCEI)
-Detective Shinto Shrine (Work Jams)
-Devil May Cry series (Capcom)
-Dokodemo Issyo (SCEI)
-Dokodemo Kaishou Pachislot Sengen (Tecmo)
-Dragon Ball Z (Bandai)
-DRIV3R (Atari)
-Dynasty Warriors (Koei)
-Eiyuu Densetsu Gagharv Trilogy: Akai Shizuku (Bandai)
-Eiyuu Densetsu Gagharv Trilogy: Shiroki Majo (Bandai)
-Evil Village (Now Production)
-EX Jinsei Game (Atlus)
-FIFA Soccer 2005 (Electronic Arts)
-Fired Up (SCEI)
-Football Manager 2006 (Sega)
-Formula One Grand Prix (SCEI)
-FRANTIX (Sony Online Entertainment)
-Free Runing (Eidos)
-Frogger: Helmet Havoc (Konami)
-Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (Bandai)
-GloRace: Phantastic Carnival (SCEI)
-Grand Theft Auto: Sin City (Rockstar Games)
-Gran Turismo 4 mobile (SCEI)
-Gretzky NHL 2005 (SCEI)
-GripShift (Sony Online Entertainment)
-Guilty Gear Judgment (Majesco)
-Gun (Activision)
-Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (Electronic Arts)
-Harukanaru Toki no Naka De: Iroe Tebako (Koei)
-Higanjima (Now Production)
-Hoshigari Empusa (Takyuo)
-Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee (SCEI)
-Infected (Majesco)
-Intelligent License (Now Production)
-James Bond 007: From Russia with Love (Electronic Arts)
-Jan-Mate (Success)
-Jeff Corwin Experience (Conspiracy Entertainment)
-Jikkyo Powerful Pro Yakyuu series (Konami)
-Jissen Pachislot Hisshopou! Fist of the North Star Portable (Sega)
-Karakuri (Tecmo)
-Karaoke (SCEI)
-Kawa no Nushi Tsuri series (Marvelous Interactive)
-Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor (Bandai)
-Kidou Senshi Gundam (Bandai)
-King's Field series (From Software)
-Kino no Tabi: The Beautiful World (MediaWorks)
-KOF Milennium Impact (SNK Playmore)
-Kollon (CyberFront)
-Kotoba no Puzzle: Mojipittan Daijiten (Namco)
-Lumines (UbiSoft)
-Madden NFL 06 (Electronic Arts)
-Mahjong Kakutou (Konami)
-Mahjong Taikai (Koei)
-Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects (Electronic Arts)
-MediEvil Resurrection (SCEI)
-Metal Gear AC!D (Konami)
-Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (Rockstar Games)
-Midway Arcade Treasures (Midway)
-MLB 2005 (SCEI)
-Mobile Train Simulator + Densha de Go! Tokyo Kyuukou Hen (Ongakukan)
-Mortal Kombat: Deception (Midway)
-Mushi (Global A)
-MX Unleashed (THQ)
-MVP Baseball 2005 (Electronic Arts)
-Namco Museum Battle Collection (Namco)
-Naruto (Bandai)
-NBA 2005 (SCEI)
-NBA Ballers (Midway)
-NBA Live 06 (Electronic Arts)
-NBA Street Showdown (Electronic Arts)
-Need for Speed Most Wanted (Electronic Arts)
-Need for Speed Underground Rivals (Electronic Arts)
-Neopets: Petpet Adventures: The Wand of Wishing (SCEI)
-NFL Street 2 Unleashed (Electronic Arts)
-One Piece (Bandai)
-Pac-Man World 3 (Namco)
-Paintball Tournamnet: Hastings 2006 (Activision)
-Payout Poker and Casino (Namco)
-Persona (Atlus)
-Peter Jackson's King Kong (UbiSoft)
-Pilot Nina Rou series (Marvelous Interactive)
-Piposaru Academia: Dossari! Sarugee Daizenshuu (SCEI)
-Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Disney Interactive)
-Plus Plum 2 Again (Takyuo)
-PoPoLoCrois (Agetec)
-Prince of Persia: Warrior Within (UbiSoft)
-Princess Crown (Atlus)
-Professional Wrestling (Yukes)
-Project Econia (Lionlogics)
-Pursuit Force (SCEI)
-Puyo Puyo Fever (Sega)
-Puzzle Bobble Pocket (Taito)
-Red Line (SCEI)
-Rengoku: Tower of Purgatory (Konami)
-Ridge Racer (Namco)
-RNR: We Run Through The Beats (Seed9)
-RS Revolution (Spike)
-San Goku Shi V (Koei)
-School Rumble: Nesan Jiken Desu (Bandai)
-Sengoku Cannon: Sengoku Ace Episode III (XNauts)
-Shingata (Sunrise)
-Shinobido Imashime (Spike)
-Shin Tenmakai: Generation of Chaos IV Another Side (Idea Factory)
-Shutoko Battle: Zone of Control (Genki)
-Slotter Up Core 5 Lupin Daisuki! Shuyaku ha Zenigata (Dorart)
-Smartbomb (Eidos)
-SOCOM: Fireteam Bravo (SCEI)
-Sonic Rush (Sega)
-Soukyuu no Fafner: Dead Aggressor (Bandai)
-Space Invaders Pocket (Taito)
-Sparrow Merit (Success)
-Spider-Man 2 (Activision)
-SpongeBob SquarePants: The Yellow Avenger (THQ)
-SSX: On Tour (Electronic Arts)
-Stacked with Daniel Negreanu (Myelin Media)
-Star Soldier (Hudson)
-Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (UbiSoft)
-Super Robot Taisen Portable (Banpresto)
-Super Star Studio (Coong)
-Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow (SCEI)
-Taiko no Tatsujin (Namco)
-Tales of Eternia (Namco)
-Tantei Jinguuji Saburo (Work Jams)
-Technic Cute (Arika)
-Tecmo My Generation (Tecmo)
-Tenchi no Mon (SCEI)
-Tenchu Shinobi Taizen (From Software)
-Tengai Makyou: The 4th Revelation: The Apocalypse (Hudson)
-Test Drive Unlimited (Atari)
-The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe (Disney Interactive)
-The Con (SCEI)
-The Fantastic Four (Activision)
-The Godfather (Electronic Arts)
-The Sims 2: Nightlife (Electronic Arts)
-Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005 (Electronic Arts)
-TGM-K (Arika)
-TOCA Race Driver 2: The Ultimate Racing Simulator (Codemasters)
-Tomb Raider Legend (Eidos)
-Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell 4 (UbiSoft)
-Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision)
-Tony Hawk's Underground 2 Remix (Activision)
-Toudai Shougi Portable (Manichi)
-Touge Max (Atlus)
-True Crime 2 (Activision)
-Twelve: Sengoku Fuushinden (Konami)
-Twisted Metal: Head On (SCEI)
-Untold Legends: Brotherhood of the Blade (Sony Online Entertainment)
-Untold Legends II (Sony Online Entertainment)
-Vegas Casino 2 (Phoenix Games)
-Viewtiful Joe VFX Battle (Capcom)
-Virtua Tennis: World Tour (Sega)
-Visual Novel series (Aqua Plus)
-Vulcanus (Zepetto)
-WipEout Pure (SCEI)
-World Championship Snooker 2005 (Sega)
-World Poker Tour (2K Games)
-World Soccer Winning Eleven series (Konami)
-World Tour Soccer 2005 (SCEI)
-WRC (SCEI)
-X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse (Activision)
-Yamasi Digi Portable (Yamasa)
-Yarudora Portable Series: Double Cast (SCEI)
-Yarudora Portable Series: Kisetsu o Dakishimete (SCEI)
-Yarudora Portable Series: Sampaguita (SCEI)
-Yarudora Portable Series: Yukiwari no Hana (SCEI)
-Ys: The Ark of Napishtim (Konami)
-Zoo Keeper (Ignition Entertainment)

PSP Non-Games
-Adventure Player (From Software)
-Talkman (SCEI)

PSP TBA Games
-action (TOMY)
-action/adventure (Atari)
-communication/simulation (Sega)
-digital pet (Sega)
-education (Imagineer)
-graphic adventure (Sega)
-MMORPG (SCEI)
-puzzle (D3 Publisher)
-puzzle (MTO)

Game Counts!!

Nintendo DS
Games: 217
Non-Games: 11
TBA Games: 21

1st Party: 35
3rd Party: 214

Total: 249

PlayStation Portable
Games: 197
Non-Games: 2
TBA Games: 13

1st Party:39
3rd Party: 173

Total:212

see colon

15-May-2005, 18:31

thanks. i thought that claim of 200 games by the end of the year for each system was taken out of context. not that i wouldn't enjoy 30 games per month for each system.

archie4oz

15-May-2005, 23:09

Yeah and now they're being sued.

So? WTF does that have to do with regards to release timelines? Go start a lawsuit thread if you want...

Current leakage was never much of an issue during the 180nm days.

So? It's a problem now. Besides it's cropped up in 130nm and more significantly on 90nm processes.

All other factors being equal, high clockspeed designs usually have a tradeoff of being able to do less per cycle than a low clockspeed design.

Except that other factors are almost never equal so there's no point in bringing it up.

That's why you don't see 3GHz GPUs. If ATI designed a 3GHz GPU tomorrow it wouldn't be able to do the same amount of work per cycle as a 500MHz GPU. It would do less per cycle, again all other factors like transistor counts, fab process, etc. being equal.

If *all* other factors being equal and you can scale up to 3GHz then they would be doing the same amount of work per clock because there would be no point to sticking@500MHz...

jvd

15-May-2005, 23:31

jvd

15-May-2005, 23:33

My gosh, you're so eager to see Sony fail. I can understand you not wanting Nintendo to get their asses handed to them on a silver platter like Sony did to them in the console biz, but jeez, come on. Just let things play out. Don't jump to conclusions. Most of all - if you're going to be a rabid f*nboy, at least yoke it back a little so it doesn't taint the logic of your posts dc is outselling psp weekly by at least 2 times the amount of units again .

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 00:26

DC? :shock: Or DS? :)

The sales are unsurprising; PSP is expensive and it's going to be a while before the price comes down so it can start taking sales from Nintendo.

But the day will come.

Regardless, I really think you're overreacting to the whole battery life thing. If it sucks for you, OK. But I'm not having any problem. I think you're just ripping it because you don't want PSP to succeed.

jvd

16-May-2005, 00:48

The sales are unsurprising; PSP is expensive and it's going to be a while before the price comes down so it can start taking sales from Nintendo.

But the day will come.

What when nintendo stops selling the ds for the next system ?

Regardless, I really think you're overreacting to the whole battery life thing. If it sucks for you, OK. But I'm not having any problem. I think you're just ripping it because you don't want PSP to succeed. In a portable battery life is as important as graphics and games . If the battery life doesn't permit me a grab and go life style then its not a portable .

All the portables i own , I can go to the mall with my ipod on listening to music , then leave it in the car and go out the next day and not be miffed that the battery will die soon because i forgot to plug it in .

Don't brush a major issue under the rug because you want the psp to succed

archie4oz

16-May-2005, 01:53

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 01:54

The sales are unsurprising; PSP is expensive and it's going to be a while before the price comes down so it can start taking sales from Nintendo.

But the day will come.

What when nintendo stops selling the ds for the next system ?

Hah, such confidence, jvd! I bet Nintendo fans brushed off Sony's original PlayStation the same way back in 1995.

Give it a year or 18 months. When PSP gets down to $149 or $99, it'll be battling head-to-head for Nintendo's core audience. By then, it'll have a hell of a game library to back it up. Same thing Sony did in the console biz, and we all know how that turned out.

All the portables i own , I can go to the mall with my ipod on listening to music , then leave it in the car and go out the next day and not be miffed that the battery will die soon because i forgot to plug it in .

Don't brush a major issue under the rug because you want the psp to succed

Well, don't forget to plug your portables in, jvd. :wink:

But now you're trying to turn this around on me. I don't think I want PSP to succeed so much as you want it to fail.

Anyway, you're certainly right, battery life may well be a concern for some PSP users. These people may want to consider buying a power brick.

You know what? PSP is imperfect in other ways, too. UMD movies are expensive. There's no built-in hard drive. Is the thing durable enough to be handled by kids?

None of it takes away from the fact that this is one cool machine, and future iterations will only get better.

jvd

16-May-2005, 02:10

All the portables i own , I can go to the mall with my ipod on listening to music , then leave it in the car and go out the next day and not be miffed that the battery will die soon because i forgot to plug it in .

Same here (and yes that includes my PSP)... And you must be a recent iPodder if you're not miffed at battery life.. :)

4th gen baby , that is why i waited .

As for my psp it doesn't get included in the list for me . Actually friday night i went to a club down the shore . My sister was playing the psp for a good hour on the drive. We drove back and she was playing it again . Then saturday my friend was watching starwars on it for about an hour as i drove to one of the malls . Drove back home . Then was leaving for a club and well the system conked out :-) thankfull hoboken is only 15 mins away

Teasy

16-May-2005, 02:22

My gosh, you're so eager to see Sony fail. I can understand you not wanting Nintendo to get their asses handed to them on a silver platter like Sony did to them in the console biz, but jeez, come on. Just let things play out. Don't jump to conclusions. Most of all - if you're going to be a rabid f*nboy, at least yoke it back a little so it doesn't taint the logic of your posts

Coming from the guy who admits that he wants DS to fail and has already come to the conclusion that it will ultimately fail.. Despite how illogical that is considering how its selling and the list of games it has coming.

16-May-2005, 02:28

Coming from the guy who admits that he wants DS to fail and has already come to the conclusion that it will ultimately fail.. Despite how illogical that is considering how its selling and the list of games it has coming.

One is moderator though.

Mind you, I think it's absolutely fine that people have biases (heck, I'm not afraid to admit I loved my Genesis!), it's just when they interfere with their ability to do their job objectively - err, this isn't a statement against jvd per se - just the pitfalls of having biases and not recognizing them. We should all try to understand our own motivations - could be enlightening. :)

jvd

16-May-2005, 02:42

Mind you, I think it's absolutely fine that people have biases (heck, I'm not afraid to admit I loved my Genesis!), it's just when they interfere with their ability to do their job objectively - err, this isn't a statement against jvd per se - just the pitfalls of having biases and not recognizing them. We should all try to understand our own motivations - could be enlightening.

Err I'm a mod of the handheld forum ?

Err what is wrong about being upset about battery life which i think is important to a portable console who's only purpose is to provide gaming on the go ?

Its funny that i don't see you poping up complaining when i put down the xbox or when i put down other things .

But since I do't like what you like i'm obviously bias .

Its sad that this is the excuse from most of you who love the psp when I bring up its battery life .

But its a simple fact that its battery life is poor and its a portable system where to many people being able to play it on trips is important .

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 03:34

Coming from the guy who admits that he wants DS to fail and has already come to the conclusion that it will ultimately fail.. Despite how illogical that is considering how its selling and the list of games it has coming.

Teasy, I knew I'd hear from you. Let me clarify my position.

As you know, I think the philosophy behind DS is bass-ackward: Let's build a machine with unusual features and see what developers do with it.

I think that's wonky. I believe necessity should be the mother of invention. You innovate to address real, specific needs - not merely to be different.

That said, I appreciate what some devs have been able to do with the system, and think Nintendodogs is actually a pretty good idea.

I can't say that I want any platform to fail. What's the point of that? I may not really groove on DS, but there's a lot of people who do, so I hope it does well for their sakes. It sucks when a platform you own goes belly-up.

Do I think DS will fail? Not likely. All signs point to at least moderate success, if not great success. However, I am unclear about what exactly Nintendo means by all its "third pillar" talk. What really are their intentions?

Will the next Gameboy include a stylus and two screens? Then is it really a Gameboy? What if it doesn't have those features? Wouldn't the release of a new GB in another year or two deal a blow to people who are buying DS now? Does Nintendo really want to split its development resources between the DS line and its more traditional Gameboy line?

There are a lot of questions surrounding all this, and if you can answer any of them, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to understand Nintendo's strategies for the GB and DS lines, whether they will merge, what it means for them if they stay separate, etc.

Perhaps I'd be less critical of DS if I could make sense of what Nintendo's trying to do with it.

jvd

16-May-2005, 03:42

Do I think DS will fail? Not likely. All signs point to at least moderate success, if not great success. However, I am unclear about what exactly Nintendo means by all its "third pillar" talk. What really are their intentions?

The next gen console is pillar 1 , the next gen gb is pillar 2 and the ds is pillar 3 .

The ds will be the low cost portable with the direct upgrade path from the gba systems .

The new gb will be a higher end gaming system most likely in another 2 years .

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 03:44

Err what is wrong about being upset about battery life which i think is important to a portable console who's only purpose is to provide gaming on the go ?

Gaming is PSP's only purpose? jvd, have you been paying attention? :)

Its sad that this is the excuse from most of you who love the psp when I bring up its battery life .

I know you weren't replying directly to me, jvd, and I really don't mean anything personal by this, but your posts very definitely betray a "pro-Nintendo/anti-Sony" slant. Which is fine if you have logical arguments and real, constructive criticisms; but less so if not.

Your complaints about PSP's battery life are well noted. Being a longtime Gameboy user, the difference probably is very noticeable to you. I suggest you purchase a power brick or a third-party, longer-life battery if it bothers you that much.

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 03:52

The next gen console is pillar 1 , the next gen gb is pillar 2 and the ds is pillar 3 .

The ds will be the low cost portable with the direct upgrade path from the gba systems .

The new gb will be a higher end gaming system most likely in another 2 years .

Do you think we can expect DS compatibility in the new GB? Or not - hence the different "pillars"?

Thank you for replying.

jvd

16-May-2005, 03:59

Gaming is PSP's only purpose? jvd, have you been paying attention?

Heh . Then call it its primary focus . They did name it a playstation portable , not a tv portable or a sony mp3 walkmen.

I know you weren't replying directly to me, jvd, and I really don't mean anything personal by this, but your posts very definitely betray a "pro-Nintendo/anti-Sony" slant. Which is fine if you have logical arguments and real, constructive criticisms; but less so if not.

Why ? Because nintendo has a battery life that is decent ? I'm not even talking great as i want more life from it too but its double the battery life of the psp .

That is the battery life that the psp should have had at least .

Being a longtime Gameboy user, the difference probably is very noticeable to you. err i only became a gameboy user with the gba . I allways had other systems and the battery life allways killed the systems and i would barely use htem.

suggest you purchase a power brick or a third-party, longer-life battery if it bothers you that much. well the power brick takes away from it being portable and a longer-life battery really don't increase the life much more. I actually haven't even seen an enhanced power battery .

jvd

16-May-2005, 04:01

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 04:14

So DS becomes Nintendo's machine at the low end of the market, and GB (or whatever N decides to call it) becomes a high-end machine.

Will the high-end GB do more than just play games? Nintendo's always saying its focus is on "pure" game machines, so this would be a change of direction for them.

Will the high-end GB be targeted at an older audience? Nintendo has some image problems to resolve if it hopes to make significant inroads here.

What happens when, two or three years into the next GB's life, the price drops to $99 or so. Wouldn't this "high-end," non-DS-compatible system then be competing with the low-cost DS family? Suddenly, N would have two incompatible systems cannibalizing sales from each other at the low end, right? Ah, well, perhaps it would be time to retire the venerable cart-based line then, anyway.

Clashman

16-May-2005, 04:23

dc is outselling psp weekly by at least 2 times the amount of units again .

Well, in fairness, that is only in Japan, and only for the last few weeks. We really have no clue about how DS and PSP are doing, respectively, in the U.S. or in Europe.

jvd

16-May-2005, 04:25

So DS becomes Nintendo's machine at the low end of the market, and GB (or whatever N decides to call it) becomes a high-end machine.

The gba sp would be entry lvl at like 50$ , the ds would be mainstream at 100-150$ and the new gameboy 2 would be at 250$ .

Will the high-end GB do more than just play games? Nintendo's always saying its focus is on "pure" game machines, so this would be a change of direction for them. I don't think so . Mabye a type of movie player like the gba already has but most likely as a add on as they like to do that .

Will the high-end GB be targeted at an older audience? Nintendo has some image problems to resolve if it hopes to make significant inroads here.
beats me , i would say it would be like every nintendo products . quality games that apeal to all ages .

What happens when, two or three years into the next GB's life, the price drops to $99 or so. Wouldn't this "high-end," non-DS-compatible system then be competing with the low-cost DS family?

If that happens (which i doubt will happen so quickly ) the gba will be phased out already and the ds will drop acordingly . Perhaps to the 75$ the gba is now while the gb 2 is at the 150$ range .

Then the ds will be phased out.

Ah, well, perhaps it would be time to retire the venerable cart-based line then, anyway. as i said the ds will drop in price anyway. I doubt a 250$ portable will hit 100$ in the first 3 years . Most likely 150$ as i said above .

That would still put the ds at 5 years old when that happens so figure at its 6th year they can retire it , launch a new high end gaming device and do the same ride again .

16-May-2005, 04:46

Err I'm a mod of the handheld forum ?

I assumed you were, if you're not, then I'm wrong about you being a mod of this forum.

Err what is wrong about being upset about battery life which i think is important to a portable console who's only purpose is to provide gaming on the go ?

It's not that you're upset about the battery life (though why you chose the word, 'upset' could be telling) so much that you seem unwilling to understand that your POV is simply that, your POV. As I've said before, obviously there are quite a few people that the battery life is fine for. For you, it's not and I completely understand this. However you are simply incorrect to argue that "Sony is wrong" for making their design choices. Wrong for you, yes. Wrong in general, no. Especially in light of the fact that most here thought the battery life would be far less than what it turned out to be. FWIW, for the "power" of the PSP, I think the battery life is quite decent.

Its funny that i don't see you poping up complaining when i put down the xbox or when i put down other things .

I frankly haven't seen you put down the xbox but I have explained to you why you were wrong about scaling and other things. If you care to, go ahead and link to something you've said about the xbox.

But since I do't like what you like i'm obviously bias .

Funny how I was the first here to talk about the LCD blurring and how different REVs impacted this.

I do like the PSP, I think it's a pretty fine piece of kit. Not for me, at least not yet but the same applies to the DS. I would probably get the DS first mind you, because I think the games for it are most interesting to me at this point. Still, not quite enough for me to invest in though.

Do you honestly think you're aren't biased either pro Nintendo or anti-Sony?

Its sad that this is the excuse from most of you who love the psp when I bring up its battery life .

And if I were to bring up the sub-par graphics and screen of the DS? What would you say then? Would you think I was being unfair?

But its a simple fact that its battery life is poor and its a portable system where to many people being able to play it on trips is important .

The simple fact is that your statement is not fact. It's an opinion. Yes, I agree that battery life IS important for a portable but whether it's poor or not is an individual choice. It's not the best, not by a long shot. But I think 4-6 hours is pretty serviceable.

jvd

16-May-2005, 05:28

However you are simply incorrect to argue that "Sony is wrong" for making their design choices. For a handheld its a poor choice . Or do you feel the battery life of the nomad , game gear , lynxs , wonder swan were design choices that some felt were fine for them ?

Notice how all these systems were more powerfull than the gameboy and had better graphics yet worse battery life and of course they all failed .

I frankly haven't seen you put down the xbox but I have explained to you why you were wrong about scaling and other things. If you care to, go ahead and link to something you've said about the xbox. you should read more then. I've commented that live was a failure , i've commented that the hardrive wasn't as usefull as it culd have been though i've said in both cases this generation they will be more important .

I've complained about games sucking on the system . Just go ahead and look. If your going to make an arguement about my bias then look at sega as that is the only company i'm bias for .

Do you honestly think you're aren't biased either pro Nintendo or anti-Sony? I'm bias towards the system that meets my needs . Right now its a nintendo system. Mabye sony will make a handheld with decent battery life and then i will support that more .

As it stands i picked up a psp and do use it . Just not as much as a ds because of its limitations If you think i'm bias because i don't over look the flaws of the psp and am very disapointed in its battery life (though not suprised ) and that i don't think its going to beat the ds like many in this forum claim that i'm bias ?

If so why even say it ? I don't see you claiming that kolgar is bias although all he does is praise it while he detracts from the ds ?

The break down is like this

ds

pros battery life , controls ,

no big deals pda functions , movie functions

negatives graphics

psp

pros , graphics , media stick format

no big deals , mp3 playback , umd movie playback

negatives battery life .

And if I were to bring up the sub-par graphics and screen of the DS? What would you say then? Would you think I was being unfair?

say what you want about the graphics. They aren't as good as the psp.

As for the screens the ds has 2 and one has stylus functions all the while at a cheaper price point
not to mention that while the screens aren't the best the only major advantage the psp screen has is its size and as you freely admit comes with its own draw backs like ghosting .

The simple fact is that your statement is not fact

So your telling me that a portable system is not meant to be taken anywhere ? That its really not a portable system ?

Because portable products are meant to be used when you are not at the house and are in the car or on the go .

But really . You shouldn't go around calling people bias when you clearly have no clue what your talking about .

rabidrabbit

16-May-2005, 05:54

I've owned thePSP now for about three weeks, the first two weeks I mainly listened to music and watched videos from memorystick.
for non UMD functions the battery lasted me well for a day, after I had finished and plugged it back into power it usually still had over 20% battery left, and I used the PSP average watching two 2 h movies and about 2 hour music plus just toying with the xbr.

Now I've got my first UMD game and car adapter.
At weekend I was travelling mainly in a car, had my PSP with me. Battery was 100% when we left.
Played RR during the trip in short (several 15 min - 1h bursts) every now and then (enough to finish the remaining tour of the beginner league, and five or so pro leagues, average 3 tries per track), also tried some music through car stereo (no more than 15 min, as the cheapo cassette adaptor sucked), watched some Memorystick (pr0n)vids too (about 2-3 hours worth of video).

Next morning when we arrived back home (5 am) it still had about 20% juice left (the battery) and I hadn't even plugged in the car adaptor.

So to me, the PSP lasted with a single charge from 2pm to 5am next morning with quite a lot of use.
Remember the PSP is still new toy to me, and it's getting a lot more use now than it will after the novelty has worn off.

Personally, for my lifestyle, I have no complaints about the battery life.

jvd

16-May-2005, 05:57

so you had a car adapater but didn't use it while playing ridge racer in your car ?

That sounds really wrong to me .

But anyway . We went to ithaca and on the trip back coulnd't use the psp because it died on the way there

rabidrabbit

16-May-2005, 06:02

Why should I have used the car adaptor if I still had battery life left?
It's more comfortable to use without an extra cable hanging around.
And the little extra screen brightness really isn't worth it imo.

Well, I did try it once just to check it works (first time I used it). But that was just a couple of minutes.

jvd

16-May-2005, 06:11

how did it work ?

I have a mini fridge plugged into the front .

rabidrabbit

16-May-2005, 06:44

It worked.. like any power charger works.
Not much difference from the home charger really... you plug it in and it starts charging, you can also use the extra screen brightness, the same experience really as with the home charger, except that it's in the car and in my car the adapter socket sucks 'cos it's too loose or something and you must be careful not to move the adapter much after you've managed to make contact :lol:
Oh, and the adapter is some cheapo third party chinese one, has a small blue led indicating power and the plug that goes into PSP is a bit more tighter than the home charger's.
Works as it's supposed to.
Don't know how long it would take to charge from 0-100% with the car adapter, haven't yet tried.

archie4oz

16-May-2005, 07:00

Why ? Because nintendo has a battery life that is decent ? I'm not even talking great as i want more life from it too but its double the battery life of the psp .

That is the battery life that the psp should have had at least .

Who says the battery life for Nintendo is decent? My DS averages between 6-10hrs a charge. That's hardly decent (and like my PSP won't last the duration of most of the flights I take).

If the PSP should be getting 10hrs max, the the DS should be getting upwards of 40hrs, yet it doesn't. The SP isn't exactly stellar either (with the light on)...

For a handheld its a poor choice . Or do you feel the battery life of the nomad , game gear , lynxs , wonder swan were design choices that some felt were fine for them ?

Notice how all these systems were more powerfull than the gameboy and had better graphics yet worse battery life and of course they all failed .

Actually the WSC gets the same battery life (20hrs) as the AGB (and does it one battery rather than two), and the NGPC got twice that...

The GP32 has similar battery performance to the SP and a much better screen and graphics.

Sorta punches holes all over the battery life theory doesn't it?

As for the Lynx and Game Gear, you forget that in their day if you didn't want to spend a fortune on alkalines, you had to run NiCads and your typical consumer grade NiCads had even more abysmal performance compared to equivalent alkalines. Even worse, NiCads were/are notoriously sensitive to irregular duty cycles and typically took 6-18 hours to recharge.

Nowadays many portable electronic devices have LiIon or LiPo batteries which can deliver better performance than the equivalent Alkaline battery (or similar performance in a smaller lighter package). More importantly however, is that LiIon/LiPo batteries are nowhere near as sensitive to irregular duty cycles as NiCads, plus they can typically achieve a 70%-90% charge within 45-90min.

Also, all of the above systems simply didn't provide enough of a product distinction from Nintendo's offerings to give them enough of a competitive edge. (Graphically the GameGear was close though, and the WSC did alright against the AGB at least in Japan).

The PSP aside from it's significant graphical prowess vs. the mainstream competition also happens to have *far* better multimedia capabilities than any of it's competitors as well as offering the ability to accomodate up to 2GB (at current flash densities) of secondary storage without relying on the systems primary content delivery mechanism.

jvd

16-May-2005, 07:24

Actually the WSC gets the same battery life (20hrs) as the AGB (and does it one battery rather than two), and the NGPC got twice that... owning a ngpc and a wonderswan i can tell u i have never gotten battery life close to that . But i get battery life of 12 hours on my gba . My neogeo pocket used to last about 8 hours . I used to play the sonic game all the time . That was a fun unit .

Also my ds has never gotten less than 10 hours off a full charge. Are you sure your charging the unit fully .

see colon

16-May-2005, 08:12

Give it a year or 18 months. When PSP gets down to $149 or $99,
i've never actuly laughed out loud and then typed "LOL" until now. do you really expect sony to chop $100-$150 off hardware they are already loosing money on in the next 12 months? you'll be looking at a $50 price drop at best, and then it'll likely come with the removal of the "value pack" items in north america.

...and future iterations will only get better.
in the future toyota will make a flying car. that doen't make my echo fly. don't judge the PSP by how cool sony is going to make it when it's redesigned. it's only as good as it is now.

I believe necessity should be the mother of invention. You innovate to address real, specific needs - not merely to be different.
necessity is always the mother of invention. if you can't accept the theory that nintendo created the DS because it felt current input meatods were hindering creative games, the accept that nintendo *needed* something to compete against the psp.

Actually the WSC gets the same battery life (20hrs) as the AGB (and does it one battery rather than two), and the NGPC got twice that...
40hrs from a NGPC? i used to play my NGPC at work (40hrs a week) and had to change the batteries at least once a week, usualy twice if i left it running most of the day.

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 14:43

see colon:

I could see Sony dropping PSP by $100 in 18 months, especially if sales are lower than they'd like. (And if all the PSP d00m & gl00m3rs in this forum are correct, Sony may have to. :) )

Anyway - who knows when it will happen, but it will happen. PSP will eventually find itself at a price point that competes with Nintendo's offerings.

Dat's all I'm sayin'.

Teasy

16-May-2005, 14:55

Teasy, I knew I'd hear from you. Let me clarify my position.

I can't say that I want any platform to fail. What's the point of that?

But didn't you actually say that you wanted DS to fail because you didn't think it deserved to sell? Not in this thread but in the past on this forum. Am I completely wrong and mistaking someone elses comments for yours?

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 17:08

I dunno, Teasy. I was wondering about that, too. You see, I'd been fantasizing about Jennifer Garner that day, and she'd already turned me down three times, so I was feeling pretty grumpy.

I'm happy to say, I scored in the end, and all's well that ends well. While I may still not be crazy about the DS's philosophy, I can tell you today that I most certainly do not wish the machine to fail. (Good thing, too, because it's selling like gangbusters.)

Now, happy E3 to you. This is going to be a good one. :P

mckmas8808

16-May-2005, 18:10

I agree Kolger that the PSP will evenually drop to $149, when I couldn't tell you. But when that happens honestly we all know that the DS will probably be sold anywhere between the prices of $79 to $99. So, even when the price of the PSP comes down Nintendo will under cut it with a price cut of there own.

When the price of the PSP hits $149 I might buy my girl one because she has been interested just the price is a little to steep for her. Which is good for Sony because she has always hated handhelds. She never saw the point in having one. She told me with movies and music it makes a little more sense.
________
Marijuana Seed (http://marijuanaseeds.org/)

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 18:31

Yes, that's what I mean - by the time PSP hits $149 or so, its "cool factor" and additional features will open up the market. People who never considered a portable before will wind up buying PSP.

Doesn't matter if Nintendo systems are priced lower - this will be the first time a multimedia fun machine like PSP ever pushed into these lower price ranges, making it affordable and attractive to a much wider audience.

jvd

16-May-2005, 19:39

mckmas8808

16-May-2005, 20:43

Its obvious that you can't compare the multimedia functions on the Ngage to the PSP. So Kolger makes a great point.
________
Honda RA300 (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_RA300)

jvd

16-May-2005, 21:02

Its obvious that you can't compare the multimedia functions on the Ngage to the PSP. So Kolger makes a great point.

Err why not ?

Ngage lets you talk on the phone and listen to music

The psp lets you watch movies on umd and listen to music

Kolgar

16-May-2005, 21:09

Doesn't matter if Nintendo systems are priced lower - this will be the first time a multimedia fun machine like PSP ever pushed into these lower price ranges, making it affordable and attractive to a much wider audience. you can get a ngage qd for 50$

nGage is a non-event. Sony's got the games, they've got the name recognition. There's no comparison.

Seriously, ask most people whether they'd rather have a Nokia nGage or a Sony PSP - even if they have absolutely no friggin idea what you're talking about - I guarantee you they'll tell you the Sony. :wink:

jvd

16-May-2005, 21:34

But that is not what your saying .

You said this will be the first time a multimedia fun machine was ever pushed into these lower price ranges and sadly its already been done by the n-gage which is true .

ALso the ds will have pda functions and a stylus . It also has add ons for videos . At the 150$ price point and while i will amidt that the quality isn't as good as the psp's quality it is done already at a lower price point .

You may end up in 4 years or so they have a 150$ psp vs a 75$ ds + pda functions and for many a cheap pda will be as big of a draw as a cheap umd video player and mp3 play back .

see colon

16-May-2005, 21:49

Ngage lets you talk on the phone and listen to music

The psp lets you watch movies on umd and listen to music
you can watch movies on an ngage as well. they come with real player and there are a few 3rd party ones also.

Seriously, ask most people whether they'd rather have a Nokia nGage or a Sony PSP - even if they have absolutely no friggin idea what you're talking about - I guarantee you they'll tell you the Sony.
what if they are looking for a phone, something to run small java applications on, or something that fits comforibly in your pocket?

Its obvious that you can't compare the multimedia functions on the Ngage to the PSP
you're right. i mean, who would want a multimedia device that supports things like AAC right out of the box so they can play files they purchased from a service like itunes? or a device that supports an common video codec like real? FM radio, who needs that?

the ngage is a more versitile multimedia device. the screen is small giving the PSP a big win in video but i'd give the ngage a lead in audio.

you can get a ngage qd for 50$
where i live they retail for $99.99US for prepaid phone service. i think if you get service though a carrier there is either a $50 rebate or $50 off instantly.

hey69

16-May-2005, 22:59

you guys already claiming a ngage is better then a psp now?

:roll:
oh boy

btw, the ngage QD doesnt have stereo sound , it's MONO
the original ngage you is a monster to hold

ok we get your point, psp sucks now lets move on

mckmas8808

16-May-2005, 23:19

I really respect the ngage as for as a phone with extras. But a handheld console with extras NO.

What I'm trying to say is as far as handhelds go if a person wants a true handheld with extra features the PSP is the obvious way to go. Especially two years from now.
________
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jvd

16-May-2005, 23:37

you guys already claiming a ngage is better then a psp now?

No we are claiming that the ngage was a multimedia handheld device at a low price point before the psp was even out .

You can get a ngage qd for 50$ . That is a phone , flash player , real player , mp3 player and video game unit for 50$ which is the very definition of a multimedia device .

The psp is still at 250$ so thus the psp wont be the first multimedia device at an appealing price .

mech

16-May-2005, 23:56

Guys, have you tried using an n-gage? Seriously?

It's a piece of shit. Video's run at low framerates, you have to turn the unit sideways to see them, they're terribly low res, the colour is shit, the sound output is awful, and you need to BUY a piece of software to get them working on there. Worst of all, the screen is TINY, you can barely see the video.

Comparing the multimedia capabilities of N-Gage to PSP is hilarious. You anti-PSP mob just keep coming up with the most ridiculous arguments.

Why not just get over the fact you don't like PSP and let it be? I don't like DS but you don't see me jumping over every DS thread telling you what a piece of crap it is.

Kolgar

17-May-2005, 00:03

OK, jvd, but what I'm saying is that nobody worth a damn has put these features into a device at that price range. Granted, Sony hasn't yet, either, but until they do, or until somebody else does who people actually care about, it won't mean a thing.

***edit***

Hehehe, I wasn't even aware that nGage is that big a piece of crap. :)

see colon

17-May-2005, 00:07

What I'm trying to say is as far as handhelds go if a person wants a true handheld with extra features the PSP is the obvious way to go. Especially two years from now.
if by handheld you mean "handheld gaming device" i agree with you wholeheartedly. the PSP already has better gaming support than the ngage.

you guys already claiming a ngage is better then a psp now?
at some things, yes. the PSP is a nice device but it isn't the best at everything it does.

btw, the ngage QD doesnt have stereo sound , it's MONO
nor does it have the FM radio or support audio playback out of the box (easily fixed with a 3rd part app, but still lacking stereo sound). while i'm complaining about the QD i'll bring up the lack of a USB port.

the launch of the PSP has created a very polarized environment for handheld gaming. any criticism sparks a lengthy "OMFG he just said the ngage is better" argument. some people claim the PSP isn't competing with the DS because it offers more than gaming and shoots for an older demographic. but if you compare it to another device that targets the same audience with similar features and point out the older device had some features that were superior in some ways you get crucified.

Kolgar

17-May-2005, 00:14

see colon, I guess we can probably agree that nobody has nailed this "portable multimedia fun machine" yet. Not Nokia, not Tapwave, not Sony. But after comparing the devices and the companies who make them, I think the PSP is, for now, the machine with the best shot at bringing us closer to the inevitable time when people walk around with "do-anything" multimedia "Walkmans" in their pockets.

Meantime, I'm diggin' it, too.

see colon

17-May-2005, 00:24

I guess we can probably agree that nobody has nailed this "portable multimedia fun machine" yet.
agreed

I think the PSP is, for now, the machine with the best shot at bringing us closer to the inevitable time when people walk around with "do-anything" multimedia "Walkmans" in their pockets.
i think judging by the offerings so far sony is the company that will bring us closer to the DAMWIYP (Do Anything Multimedia Walkman In Your Pants). the point i was making before was that the PSP is great for gaming, but it's multimedia features lack compared to stand alone devices or even other DAMWIYP's.

some will be quick to point out that the multimedia functions are "free" or "bonus", and that's true. but that just cements the PSP more in the gaming realm than the DAMWIYP realm.

Kolgar

17-May-2005, 02:25

see colon

agreed :)

jvd

17-May-2005, 02:28

No one is arguing that the psp does these things better than the ngage (though with 3rd party apps as said the ngage does some things better )

I would hope that something released 2 years later would do tehse things better .

But I am mearly pointing out that the ngage has already delivered what the psp has at a much lower price point .

In the future another do it all device will come out and upstage the psp. That doesn't take away from what the psp has acomplished . It simply what is . The psp launching after the ngage doesn't take away from the ngage that it was infact the first portable that was able to do all these things

mech

17-May-2005, 03:02

jvd

17-May-2005, 03:22

But I am mearly pointing out that the ngage has already delivered what the psp has at a much lower price point .

No it hasn't. That's like saying that the TNT2 has already delivered what the Geforce 6800 Ultra has at a lower price point.

No that its like saying the r300 has already delivered what the r420 has .

The ngage does all the psp does and more at a lower price point . and has done it 2 years before

see colon

17-May-2005, 03:33

neither analogy realy works, since video cards only have one function (to accelerate video), the the PSP and the NGage have multiple functions.

mech

17-May-2005, 03:47

Okay then.. according to jvd's argument..

The PSOne did everything the PS2 did, and at a lower price point....

My point is, it's about the QUALITY at which it does it. I can get a crappy 17" CRT, and it does "everything" a good quality 24" Dell CRT does, except at a much lower quality.

Do you not understand why your argument is flawed?

see colon

17-May-2005, 04:03

The PSOne did everything the PS2 did, and at a lower price point....

My point is, it's about the QUALITY at which it does it. I can get a crappy 17" CRT, and it does "everything" a good quality 24" Dell CRT does, except at a much lower quality.

Do you not understand why your argument is flawed?
but the ngage plays industry standard AAC's right of of the box. as an audio player it has some capabilities that outpace the PSP. do you understand why your argument is flawed?

furthermore, a psone doesn't do everything a ps2 can do. ps2's play DVD's and has suport for USB devices.

beyond that the psone and ps2 aren't even competing products. they had a 5+ year launch difference and are made by the same company.

and your CRT argument isn't the same either because CRT's only have one purpose (to display images on). CRT's and video cards are pieced of a multimedia system, the PSP and ngage are multimedia systems.

a better analogy would be 2 fax machines. one might have a much higher print quality, while the other's phone handset might have beter sound.

mech

17-May-2005, 04:15

Uh... righto.... if you're going to get that picky...

The N-Gage CAN'T do everything PSP can. It can't read UMDs, it can't filter textures, it can't display as many pixels, it can't display as many colours, it can't use wi-fi, it can't use memory stick duo...

See how pointless this is?

Fax machines... right...

see colon

17-May-2005, 04:27

The N-Gage CAN'T do everything PSP can. It can't read UMDs, it can't filter textures, it can't display as many pixels, it can't display as many colours, it can't use wi-fi, it can't use memory stick duo...
is it that hard for you to admit that the psp isn't perfect? just because something that is older can outdo the psp in certain areas doesn't take away from the areas where the psp excels. nothing i say is going to make you "get it", so i'm giving up.

mech

17-May-2005, 04:45

is it that hard for you to admit that the psp isn't perfect?

Not at all. PSP isn't perfect.

ust because something that is older can outdo the psp in certain areas doesn't take away from the areas where the psp excels.

Not sure what you're talking about here. The only reason I replied to this thread was because of jvd's choice quote:

But I am mearly pointing out that the ngage has already delivered what the psp has at a much lower price point .

Also, in which areas (do you believe) N-Gage has outdone PSP? I'm curious, not trolling. Because I've got an N-Gage (not a QD) and I find the PSP blows the N-Gage away in every area.

Unless you're talking about AAC support... which IMO isn't very flash hot, but I CAN see how some people might want that. I don't know many people who rip to AAC though, and iTunes songs won't play on N-Gage anyway...

Doesn't PSP support ATRAC anyway? Great, so each handheld supports a format that the other doesn't ;)

nothing i say is going to make you "get it", so i'm giving up.

Oh well, guess I won't get a reply to my other questions then :)

Darkflash9999

27-May-2005, 23:04

In America the DS came out in late 2004 I think. Thats when i got my DS the PSP came out in March of 05. Thats when i traded my ds in for a psp. Of Course DS is Outselling PSP it had like a 4 month headstart in the US. And DS games suck, all thats on it is mario :!:

PC-Engine

28-May-2005, 05:48

cthellis42

28-May-2005, 11:30

Goddam it, if people don't stop using "came/coming out before" as the instant excuse-for-not-selling-as-much or reason-it-will-succeed-so-much-more I'm going to slap them with a rubber pancreas.