View Full Version : Anyone put off by PSP and DS unit size?
...and long for something next-geny and smaller like the GBA SP size?
gokickrocks
09-Apr-2005, 12:06
even though i own a psp, i still dont really like the size of it...i wouldnt have minded if the screen would have to be shortened to be the size of an sp
PC-Engine
09-Apr-2005, 13:17
DS and PSP are too big. Give me a single smaller touchscreen maybe 3.7' and a smaller size and I'd be happy. It doesn't need to be as small as SP though. A pack of cards is about right with a bigger screen.
fallguy
10-Apr-2005, 02:04
No way. The WS LCD for the PSP is awesome, and a perfect size for me. Watching movies on a tiny screen is no fun.
My problem isn't so much the size, as the placement of the shoulder buttons because of the size/shape of the PSP. If I have it in my jacket pocket while playing MP3's, if I accidentally hit either shoulder buttons it will either jump to the next song or restart my current one. It's really annoying, I wish the buttons were somehow shielded more, or if the audio player had a way to lock all the buttons.
________
Herbal Vaporizers (http://vaporizer.org/forum/herbal-vaporizers/)
darkblu
10-Apr-2005, 05:25
It's really annoying, I wish the buttons were somehow shielded more, or if the audio player had a way to lock all the buttons.
doesn't the 'hold' position of the power button work?
MrWibble
10-Apr-2005, 15:40
As I'm only stopping in briefly before trying to get past level 94 of Lumines, I suppose I have to say "no".
Some things just *need* a bigger screen - it's all very well playing 2D stuff on a small screen but 3D needs size as well as resolution in order to make out stuff in the distance, etc.
I suppose it could be thinner maybe, and I dare say that in the future when we have some better technology available in the cheap consumer space, we could have a device with the same size screen but thinner and foldable or something.
But I'm exceedingly happy with mine..
PC-Engine
10-Apr-2005, 20:33
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20050325-SonyPSP.jpg
Evolution should be similar in size to that iPAQ. If you turn that PPC sideways and move the controls down and make it a clamshell design it would be perfect IMO.
A big screen isn't necessary for handheld 3D because the devices are held proportionately closer to the eye than TV viewing. This makes the visibility of the pixels greater than on a TV, so rendering quality has to actually be proportionately higher in handheld graphics to achieve the same level of smoothness. This is a big advantage for technology that excels in image qualities like color precision and higher definitions through supersampled anti-aliasing.
fallguy
11-Apr-2005, 00:33
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20050325-SonyPSP.jpg
Evolution should be similar in size to that iPAQ. If you turn that PPC sideways and move the controls down and make it a clamshell design it would be perfect IMO.
You couldnt fit all the buttons, and analog stick on there.
That PDA cannot do what the PSP can, if it did, it would be bigger than it is.
Too bad Nintendo didn't make the DS smaller, the hardware is outdated enough that they may have been able to make something close to SP sized. That would have put sony on the spot, the choice wouldn't be between two handhelds of similar size, it would be between a portable and unobtrusive system versus a more powerful but very obstrusive one.
Blazkowicz
11-Apr-2005, 05:36
The DS is too big while still having small screens, and is quite awkard to hand it when you have to play metroid with the stylus (it literally hurts some of my fingers :shock: )
It's better for wario ware, and for metroid with the thumb thing (too bad you lose precision compared to the stylus, so I haven't played much with it).
I haven't tried the PSP or even seen it, but it seems thinner, you don't have to open it and it just looks like a (bigger) SNES controller with a great screen on it :) ( /edit : lol I don't like this sentence, too many "it' :oops: )
. too bad we don't even really know when it will be released in Europe (pessimistic rumors say in december..)
PC-Engine
11-Apr-2005, 07:52
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20050325-SonyPSP.jpg
Evolution should be similar in size to that iPAQ. If you turn that PPC sideways and move the controls down and make it a clamshell design it would be perfect IMO.
You couldnt fit all the buttons, and analog stick on there.
That PDA cannot do what the PSP can, if it did, it would be bigger than it is.
And why couldn't you? I guess you missed the part where I mention clamshell?
Also please explain why a gaming handheld from Nintendo needs to be bigger than that iPAQ in area in order to do what the PSP could do when it's a clamshell design, neglecting the PSP's bigger screen of course? I fail to see your logic.
The PSP is big because it simply has a big screen. It's not big because of its processing capability. :wink:
fallguy
11-Apr-2005, 17:25
Right, because you know all. Sorry, I must have forgotten. :roll:
This is a big advantage for technology that excels in image qualities like color precision and higher definitions through supersampled anti-aliasing.
You crack me up.
the first time I saw / touched a PSP last december, i was astounished how small it was! i was expecting it to be much bigger..
PC-Engine
12-Apr-2005, 05:05
Right, because you know all. Sorry, I must have forgotten. :roll:
I just know more than you and I actually know what I'm talking about. :wink:
archie4oz
12-Apr-2005, 08:25
As I'm only stopping in briefly before trying to get past level 94 of Lumines, I suppose I have to say "no".
What score having you gotten so far? I've hit 102,000, but my g/f is clobbering me @300,000 points so far... Although I can happily still beat her somehow in vs. mode...
Evolution should be similar in size to that iPAQ. If you turn that PPC sideways and move the controls down and make it a clamshell design it would be perfect IMO.
IMO it would be rather thick (and probably a bit heavy). The DS is already clunky large (although comfortable to hold, and has excellent sound from it's speakers). Also, I'd find what would be essentially an enlarged SP a rather uninteresting product vs. the PSP. The DS provides more unique product differentiation from the PSP...
A big screen isn't necessary for handheld 3D because the devices are held proportionately closer to the eye than TV viewing. This makes the visibility of the pixels greater than on a TV, so rendering quality has to actually be proportionately higher in handheld graphics to achieve the same level of smoothness.
Necessary? No. Preferable? Yes. The problem isn't visibility of pixels (although that is part of it (you *do* have simply fewer pixels to work with and are at a more critical viewing distance), the problem becomes one a lack of optimal field of view at the critical viewing distance. The PSP does a pretty bang up job of dealing with this but it's still too small. And going larger would compromise it's portability too much.
This is a big advantage for technology that excels in image qualities like color precision and higher definitions through supersampled anti-aliasing.
Actually I may have to disagree on this as well. Color precision IMO would be towards the back of the list of critical qualities at this point (unless we're talking HDRI which is a bit silly to discuss in this category of hardware). And anti-aliasing IMO also isn't as critical as one might think. On something like the PSP, you're already rendering in the ballpark of 120 ppi (which would similar to rendering 1880x1440 on a 19" LCD), so it's less necessary to anti-alias the scene than it would be if you were rendering at say less than 30 ppi. Texture filtering would play a bigger role in the quality of the rendered scene IMO than either of the facets you mentioned, as well as representing a more difficult challenge to overcome from an engineering standpoint for a handheld devices...
PC-Engine
12-Apr-2005, 08:53
IMO it would be rather thick (and probably a bit heavy). The DS is already clunky large (although comfortable to hold, and has excellent sound from it's speakers). Also, I'd find what would be essentially an enlarged SP a rather uninteresting product vs. the PSP. The DS provides more unique product differentiation from the PSP...
It wouldn't need to be much thicker than a SP, maybe 2-3 mm. The DS is clunky and large, but Evolution could be smaller with a single bigger touch screen. IMO Evolution with a 3.7" 4:3 or 3:2 touch screen, WiFi, SD card compatibillity, mic, analog thumb stick, built-in Pictochat and sized like a pack of cards in a clamshell form factor as more attractive than PSP or DS and that's even before mention of its 3D or gyroscopic capabilites. You'd basically have an iPAQ clamshell with built-in 3D for around $200.
Too bad Nintendo didn't make the DS smaller, the hardware is outdated enough that they may have been able to make something close to SP sized. That would have put sony on the spot, the choice wouldn't be between two handhelds of similar size, it would be between a portable and unobtrusive system versus a more powerful but very obstrusive one.
That wouldn't really be possible because the DS has two screens vertically aligned.
archie4oz:
Necessary? No. Preferable? Yes.
Whether it's preferable or not depends on how it affects the unit's form factor. Bigger/better/faster is always preferable, of course, without considering context.
Color precision IMO would be towards the back of the list of critical qualities at this point
I didn't mean to imply that other image qualities were less important. Color integrity is just as fundamental, and low depth has stood out a little in some PSP games.
And anti-aliasing IMO also isn't as critical as one might think. On something like the PSP, you're already rendering in the ballpark of 120 ppi (which would similar to rendering 1880x1440 on a 19" LCD), so it's less necessary to anti-alias the scene than it would be if you were rendering at say less than 30 ppi.
Qualities for mobile graphics don't get much more critical than scene anti-aliasing. While the small area for mobile displays can give a high concentration of pixels to prevent any roughness in the graphics from showing much, it also means that the graphics are small and of low resolution on an absolute scale and are therefore in need of better definition to maintain the same level of distinctness.
For better visibility of mobile graphics, improved graphics qualities can also help like bigger screens and brighter displays do.
Texture filtering would play a bigger role in the quality of the rendered scene IMO than either of the facets you mentioned, as well as representing a more difficult challenge to overcome from an engineering standpoint for a handheld devices...
Texture filtering is certainly important as well, being another image quality and key factor of advantage to architectures that excel with acceleration for anisotropic, even if it can only be afforded selectively.
fallguy
13-Apr-2005, 08:27
Judging by this poll, it looks like Sony made the right choice in the size of the LCD.
PC-Engine
13-Apr-2005, 11:21
Judging by this poll, it looks like Sony made the right choice in the size of the LCD.
Yeah, I'm sure the 20 people who voted NO for both PSP and DS are representative of the world market for PSP's screen size preference. :lol:
cthellis42
13-Apr-2005, 16:22
I vote "no" for the simple reason that when you get smaller you get more conveniently portable, but you get a LOT more annoying to hold for any length of time and to properly control. Screen size is always good, but frankly what I want are units that are better representatives of the controllers we use to play consoles every day. I liked the initial design of the GBA a lot more than the SP, and like the DS and PSP even more. (Though the DS is more oddly weighted. I'd rather a "clamshell" exist mainly as a slender cover for screen/unit protection.)
I don't simply listen to music on these devices. I don't need a small screen for reference. I don't use them to talk on the phone. I don't use them only in PDA fashion for notetaking or scrolling through my personal information... I need to hold them in both hands to play games on. That is certainly not a feature that carries over to other devices with different portability concerns. Portable consoles already lose out by not being able to deliver the kind of hand-conforming designs gamepads do, but making them as small as the SP simply compounds the issue. It's easier to carry around, but much more annoying to actually play.
fallguy
13-Apr-2005, 17:05
Judging by this poll, it looks like Sony made the right choice in the size of the LCD.
Yeah, I'm sure the 20 people who voted NO for both PSP and DS are representative of the world market for PSP's screen size preference. :lol:
You could argue that very fact.
Then another fact is, post have been made on other forums, and most people like the screen size.
So as I said, looks like they were right in making it that size. Unless you got some info where more people dont... ?
PC-Engine
13-Apr-2005, 17:21
Just because people like the screen size doesn't mean they wouldn't like a smaller screen to go with a smaller console. :wink: If SONY had made two versions of PSP, one with the standard 4.5" screen and one with a smaller 4" screen that made the PSP smaller and more portable, I think a lot of people would go for the smaller version. I would go as far as to say more than half of the potential consumers would go for the smaller version. A 4" screen is still very big for a portable gaming machine yet it allows a smaller console.
Just because people like the screen size doesn't mean they wouldn't like a smaller screen to go with a smaller console. :wink: If SONY had made two versions of PSP, one with the standard 4.5" screen and one with a smaller 4" screen that made the PSP smaller and more portable, I think a lot of people would go for the smaller version. I would go as far as to say more than half of the potential consumers would go for the smaller version. A 4" screen is still very big for a portable gaming machine yet it allows a smaller console.
If the price was cheaper than it'd probably get more sales.
Just because people like the screen size doesn't mean they wouldn't like a smaller screen to go with a smaller console. :wink: If SONY had made two versions of PSP, one with the standard 4.5" screen and one with a smaller 4" screen that made the PSP smaller and more portable, I think a lot of people would go for the smaller version. I would go as far as to say more than half of the potential consumers would go for the smaller version. A 4" screen is still very big for a portable gaming machine yet it allows a smaller console.
...and yet, the UMD drive still requires a specific (vertical) length, which means that a smaller sized PSP would only be smaller in width, making it more demanding on other units such as the battery and buttons, memorystick bay etc. I think there's a perfect explenation why the PSP is sized as it is... :wink:
coulnd't you make the psp as a clamshell .
I think it would be smaller and look better. IT would only have to be a little longer than the screen right now which would take alot of the length away. It would only be say 4.5 or 4.6 inches wide
PC-Engine
14-Apr-2005, 06:31
Just because people like the screen size doesn't mean they wouldn't like a smaller screen to go with a smaller console. :wink: If SONY had made two versions of PSP, one with the standard 4.5" screen and one with a smaller 4" screen that made the PSP smaller and more portable, I think a lot of people would go for the smaller version. I would go as far as to say more than half of the potential consumers would go for the smaller version. A 4" screen is still very big for a portable gaming machine yet it allows a smaller console.
...and yet, the UMD drive still requires a specific (vertical) length, which means that a smaller sized PSP would only be smaller in width, making it more demanding on other units such as the battery and buttons, memorystick bay etc. I think there's a perfect explenation why the PSP is sized as it is... :wink:
The other parts don't take up that much space as a matter of fact if the screen was smaller but the size was kept the same, there would actually be more empty space on the back side of the unit. The reason why I say more is because there is already empty space back there. :wink:
If the price was cheaper than it'd probably get more sales.
Yes a smaller screen would make the console cheaper too.
rabidrabbit
14-Apr-2005, 08:08
Why is the DS so big? The screens don't take much of the space and there's a lot of empty space below both of the screens. There also seems to be some waste space around the controls.
The DS could have been much more slimmer if they had made the upper part just about the size of the screen. When closed it would cover only the lower screen, not the controls. The lower screen could have been recessed a little so that when closed the upper screen goes into that recession and would be flush with the controls.
Wait I got it
The psp is so big because they want to introduce a new psp later on in its life like they did with the playsation/psone playstation2 /pstwo
Nintendo will release the game boy ds advanced which will also be smaller and come in more colors
Vola !
PC-Engine
14-Apr-2005, 08:31
Why is the DS so big? The screens don't take much of the space and there's a lot of empty space below both of the screens. There also seems to be some waste space around the controls.
The DS could have been much more slimmer if they had made the upper part just about the size of the screen. When closed it would cover only the lower screen, not the controls. The lower screen could have been recessed a little so that when closed the upper screen goes into that recession and would be flush with the controls.
Well it would look really funny if it had that kind of design especially when open. I don't think gamers would like that at all. Also that kind of design wouldn't make the DS smaller, just thinner.
rabidrabbit
14-Apr-2005, 08:46
But getting rid of the wasted space would make it smaller.
And thinner is smaller too, or does it not matter if DS were 5" thick??
I don't think it would look too funny with that design, if done properly.
A thinner upper screen would make it look quite modern and "higher tech" compared to the bulk that is the upper part of DS now.
Certainly the upper screen looks a bit odd now, with the huge speaker spaces on both sides of the small screen (imo).
I think the thickness of the ds is there for a reason. Its so that it can take a beating . I would not want to drop a psp even once , but the ds looks like it can take a couple of drops
PC-Engine
14-Apr-2005, 09:00
But getting rid of the wasted space would make it smaller.
And thinner is smaller too, or does it not matter if DS were 5" thick??
I don't think it would look too funny with that design, if done properly.
A thinner upper screen would make it look quite modern and "higher tech" compared to the bulk that is the upper part of DS now.
Certainly the upper screen looks a bit odd now, with the huge speaker spaces on both sides of the small screen (imo).
Well sure it would be slightly thinner but it would still be wide so there's really not point because it's not any more portable.
fallguy
14-Apr-2005, 09:00
Fact is, more people like the screen, than not. Just admit that fact, and move on.
PC-Engine
14-Apr-2005, 09:20
Fact is, more people like the screen, than not. Just admit that fact, and move on.
I think you should move on since people like various things for various reasons. :lol:
london-boy
14-Apr-2005, 09:32
Well, not to interrupt your bitching about such a useless topic (I mean, really, arguing over.. what is it that you're arguing over again?), but for one i would love to see a PSP "SP" (Try saying that 10 times fast...errr..)
That way the PSPSP would only be as long and wide as the screen, since the buttons would be on the "other side", under the screen, not on the sides. Might be a bit thicker, but it would certainly be more "proportionate" if u know what i mean...
For the record, reducing PSP's screen from 4.3 inches to 4.0 isn't going to significantly reduce costs. In any case, the screen IS by far, for most people, the most impressive feature at first glance. It's glorious, it's PSP's crown jewel, so it makes no sense whatsoever to consider scaling it down.
I'm sure Sony wanted a good balance between screen size and portability, but clearly, a big "wow" factor was the priority. Judging by the final product, and people's reactions to it, I think they achieved what they set out to do.
By itself, that screen is a big part of what sets PSP in a different league from Gameboy this or DS that. In fact, I think one of Sony's goals with the screen was to make it so immediately arresting that it changes people's perceptions of portable entertainment. To - in Sony's words, "take portable video games out of the gaming ghetto" and somewhere entirely different.
Mission accomplished, I'd say.
PC-Engine
14-Apr-2005, 13:23
Well instead of 4" make it 3.8 or 3.9". Anyway I'm not questioning the screen's attention getting power. I'm questioning the size of the console. Given two choices, I think a slighty smaller screen accompanied by a slightly smaller size and slighty lower price would force people to choose between what's more important to them. To some a slighty smaller screen and form factor is a definite advantage. It's like when a person goes to buy a portable DVD player. If they want something small and portable they'll get one with a 6" screen. If OTOH they go with a bigger 8" they'd have to deal with a big bulky player. If the GBA had a bigger backlit screen than the SP, I don't think it would've changed SP's adoption rate much.
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