View Full Version : Tekken 4 realtime cinemas...
crypto1300
25-Sep-2002, 18:49
Has anyone seen the realtime cinemas for the character endings in Tekken 4? At first I thought it was FMV, but after a real hard look it was obvious that it was realtime. I must say that the cinemas are quite impressive, no aliasing, no shimmer & very clean. I even saw what appeared to be bumpmapping on a soldiers helmet.
Just thought I'd share my impressions of the cinemas.
All i remember from the japanese version is the FMV endings.
crypto1300
25-Sep-2002, 19:47
All i remember from the japanese version is the FMV endings.
If you're talking about the "Story Mode" character endings, the US version is not FMV, but is indeed game engine rendered. I never played the Japanese version though.
I only have the JP-version, where the ending cinemas indeed were "offline renders". However, they used the in-game models so a few people thought they were realtime also at the JP release. If the cinemas are the same I strongly doubt Namco has fine-tuned their engine to the point where those are possible to do in realtime. Basically, there was too much shadowing to calculate per frame and too much geometry/textures to hold in memory without loading between cuts.
Got any captures/movies from the US endings?
crypto1300
25-Sep-2002, 22:11
VNZ,
I guess I could've mistaken the FMV endings for game engine cutscenes, but they sure made a good effort to use the game models & similar textures/geometry from the game engine itself. And, if I recall correctly the endings in TTT were definetly done by the game engine.
No, Crypto, I'm pretty sure the endings in TTT were all pre-rendered. :-?
So who's all getting Tekken 4 on Friday? I wasn't going to, but after going back and playing DOA3, VF4, and TTT, I decided that my heart belongs to Tekken... I'm getting it. :lol:
Kolgar
Ozymandis
26-Sep-2002, 00:14
No, Crypto, I'm pretty sure the endings in TTT were all pre-rendered. :-?
So who's all getting Tekken 4 on Friday? I wasn't going to, but after going back and playing DOA3, VF4, and TTT, I decided that my heart belongs to Tekken... I'm getting it. :lol:
Kolgar
How are ya Kolgar?
I'll probably just wait and rent Tekken 4. Too many other games coming out that I want more. Although it's a must-rent as the first (decent) progressive-scan Ps2 game :P
Hi, Ozy. I'm well. Still spending most of my time at the other place. Trader finally gave up and called it quits months ago. :wink:
I'm totally loving this generation of games and systems. My PS2 and Xbox both get a lot of use - there are some great, great games for each of them. My poor Gamecube has been relegated to the spare room, however - not enough games I want to play. (As usual - thanks, Nintendo.)
Anyway, looking forward to Tekken 4. Also the new Need for Speed, Burnout 2, Unreal Championship, and others I can't remember right now. Just wish I had the willpower to hold out until I finish Munch and JSRF.
Kolgar
crypto1300
26-Sep-2002, 00:34
No, Crypto, I'm pretty sure the endings in TTT were all pre-rendered. :-?
So who's all getting Tekken 4 on Friday? I wasn't going to, but after going back and playing DOA3, VF4, and TTT, I decided that my heart belongs to Tekken... I'm getting it. :lol:
Kolgar
Just popped in TTT & I'm almost positive the endings are realtime. Can anyone verify if possible. Although, Tekken 4 endings could probably be pre-rendered as they are extremely clean, but utilizing the game engine style rather than the FMV intro style.
This IS easy to check you know... Just take off the cover, if the DVDROM spins up when the sequence plays then it is FMV. :)
*G*
PS: The PS2:s drive is kinda noisy I've noticed. It could be sufficient to just turn off the sound and listen too.
Yup, the TTT endings are indeed realtime (the fact that they all are staged in in-game scenery is sort of a give-away). Tetsujin's ending are particularly impressive with some 50 Mokujins mimicking his moves, all with shadows (and a bit unsynchronized). Also, they show that both the character models and the backgrounds are much more detailed than its Soul Calibur counterparts - contrary to popular belief. Great game overall. :)
I confirmed that the endings in the US and PAL versions of Tekken 4 are identical to the JP ones, ie prerendered. Can't say I liked them really, with Jin's and Law's as the most notable exceptions.
crypto1300
26-Sep-2002, 02:23
Yup, the TTT endings are indeed realtime (the fact that they all are staged in in-game scenery is sort of a give-away). Tetsujin's ending are particularly impressive with some 50 Mokujins mimicking his moves, all with shadows (and a bit unsynchronized). Also, they show that both the character models and the backgrounds are much more detailed than its Soul Calibur counterparts - contrary to popular belief. Great game overall. :)
I confirmed that the endings in the US and PAL versions of Tekken 4 are identical to the JP ones, ie prerendered. Can't say I liked them really, with Jin's and Law's as the most notable exceptions.
Cool, thanks for not making me think I'm crazy. They really made the Tekken 4 endings seem very realtime like though. Probably to make the gameplay & cinemas flow into one another more fluidly.
Logan Leonhart
26-Sep-2002, 02:35
I´m getting it. I enjoyed TTT quite a bit, and while some reviews made me doubt, I realized that they were just complaining that it didn´t evolve enough, but that it still was a kick-ass game, so I´m still getting it.
crypto1300
26-Sep-2002, 02:44
I´m getting it. I enjoyed TTT quite a bit, and while some reviews made me doubt, I realized that they were just complaining that it didn´t evolve enough, but that it still was a kick-ass game, so I´m still getting it.
I bought Tekken 4, SegaGT 2002, & StarFox lastnight. But, I was only able to get some playtime with Tekken 4. I have to say that I enjoy the game at least as much as TTT & DOA3, which I had bleeding thumbs by the time I was done playing.
Heh, sorry about that. As I remembered it, the TTT end movies were FMV...
Guess I should have played through a different mode last night - the "Tag" game doesn't show end movies.
By the way, you got T4 last night? Must've come out early, hm?
Kolgar
crypto1300
26-Sep-2002, 03:46
Heh, sorry about that. As I remembered it, the TTT end movies were FMV...
Guess I should have played through a different mode last night - the "Tag" game doesn't show end movies.
By the way, you got T4 last night? Must've come out early, hm?
Kolgar
I got it at Software Etc. here in Hawaii. They had tons of 'em.
OT
(Hugs both Kolgar and Ozymandis)
/OT
Aww, thanks, KOF! Good to see ya, man! :P
Just rented Tekken 4 and beat it with Steve. Those are FMV endings. The reason why they look real time is because they're bad FMV :P
btw, the game is atrocious. First Tekken I've ever played, and the last. It's like the game forces itself into mediocrity, as in its not nearly as indepth as Virtua Fighter, but its not button-masher friendly like DOA, thereby sticking it in the middle, badly. I'll take Akira & VF anyday!
zurich
Ha! Sorry you don't like it. Me, it's my game. For some reason, I clearly prefer the Tekken games to VF or DOA. :-?
Ozymandis
12-Oct-2002, 18:49
KOF, Kolgar, you guys should come here more often :D
Logan Leonhart
13-Oct-2002, 22:35
I´ve been playing T4 extensively for the past week, and all I´ve got to say is that it kicks VF4´s sorry ass! T4 is that amazing. Sure, it may have a bit less depth, but it´s so much more fun! It looks amazing (much, much better than VF4), the characters´s movements are much more fluid, the gameplay is very fast, and the music is way better than those annoying electric guitar tracks in VF4. What can I say except that it is much, much better than VF4. 8)
Tekken4 can't be more fluid than VF4. The amount of animation frames employed in VF4 is far higher than both Tekken4 and DOA3. That's why defensive tactics using recovery is far more important in VF4 while Tekken4 relies on all out offensive comboes that are varied depending on the environment.
Of course, Tekken4 has finally turned into a solid fighting game that can now be described as deep. Too bad many Tekken fans still stick to TTT.
As for VF4 looking bad, I guess N@omi2 was little too much for PSX2 to handle. Still, it pushes out mad lighting which is a good thing. I hope VF 4.1 (Evo) comes out in either G^3 and X-box to do full arcade justice.
Of course, I've come to realization great graphics and animation isn't the only thing a good fighting game needs. Street Fighter EX3, while retaining its 2D root, is actually quite solid game with extremely sophisticated fighting engines. And we are talking about first gen PSX2 game that looks worse than Soul Calibur here.
(Kolgar, Ozy, thanks)
Logan Leonhart
14-Oct-2002, 05:46
I wasn´t talking about Frames of animation, what I was refering to was fluidity of gameplay. You know, in VF4 you always have to move so stiltedly, always on the defense and looking for a counter move, either it be a punch, a kick or a sidestep, the problem being that there are many rules that damage potentially fun gameplay.
In T4, you can be VERY offensive, and be able to have a very healthy chance of being the winner, or you can be a very smart defensive player that uses the exact moves to interrupt the other player´s combos with a move. Xiayu is my favorite thus far, she has many stances, defensive and smart offensive moves. I can taunt an oponent with quick punches, a fast combo, or defend and wait for a good opening to unleash a throw.
I just don´t find VF4 to be fun, more like frustrating. There are too many rules for my liking, aerial combat is almost nonexistant (you just can´t reproduce Hwoarang´s amazing tae kwon do moves in a VF game), and it´s just not fun to remember so many moves and rules with that amazingly limited control scheme. Someone needs to tell Yu that we´ve had more than 3 face buttons since the SNES. :)
BTW, I REALLY doubt NAOMI 2´s capabilities had anything to do with the lame-ass, all-around crappy port. It was a rushed PS2 port, and AM2´s first try at coding for the PS2. I mean, T4 looks WAY better than it, and they´re both on the same machine.
If you ask me the largest problem i noticed in vf4 for PS2 was the nasty textures. I am not to sure the PS2 can improve apon the Naomi2 (or even equal it).
Honestly i was never to fond of the VF series. Characters deal far to much damage and the animations run through far to quickly for powerful attacks. Soul Calibur (with the exclusion of some of that BS you can pull with asteroth) seems like a far more appealing engine in that respect. Tekken 4 is great but the combos are generally more difficult to pull off then other fighters. DOA definately needs counter breakers for those "no talent ass clowns" who see it fit to play on the defensive.
Yep, it's all about the fun.
I find Tekken the most fun because I love the offense-heavy gameplay. I also like the over-the-top moves. Realism isn't important for me - after a long day at work, I'm frankly pretty tired of realism. :(
Surprisingly, I like VF4 OK too. It's a hard-hitting fighter, that's for sure. And a good challenge. Too bad about that aliasing though.
DOA3 seemed like tons of fun at first, but... Something's missing. I guess I don't appreciate the character designs as much as the other games. And that end boss - lame!
Kolgar
Logan Leonhart : Now, I get what you mean. Yes, Tekken has been known for sheer joy of pulling off crazy moves. (not necessarily combos, but combos do count too) I think one of the reasons why Tekken is so popular is the amount of follow-ups that can be continued. What I like about Tekken4 is, different follow-ups must be chained depending on the environment (like whether or not there is an obstacle behind you, or whether or not your opponent is falling high or low) Something that was more of a pain in VF3 engine now works extremely well in Tekken4. I guess a lot of people prefer the agile and fast and furious (and...little bit mythical like Street Fighter) fighter than VF where turtling is extremely important, thus may not be seen as flashy to the others. That's fine. While I understand the appealing factors of Tekken4, I still need to point about its flaws. While all out offensive is fine and dandy, in my opinion, it shouldn't be the only Prima Donna of your arsenals. My definition of good fighting game is "Huge risk = huge payoff/ little risk = little payoff" and both DOA and Tekken (also including Soul Calibur which shares much with Tekken) somewhat fails in this area. Yes, unlike DOA2, at least Tekken have decent recovery lag on moves performed, but it's still not enough to punish your opponent whenever they make a silly move. That, IMO, makes it a bit like Marvel vs. Capcom, where you HAVE to go all out offensive in order to win. Also, due to the nature of Tekken's offensive nature, there are unrefined balance issues like infinites and so on. Cheap Tekken players might exploit a bug in order to win, and that may not make everyone happy, not to mention both T4 and SC is button masher friendly. (This...unfortunately exists up to certain extent in VF4 too.) Of course, you cannot have both crazy and cool offensive style along with a good defense. So, I can't really blame Tekken here. Whatever that is, I'd like to rephrase, that Tekken4 has certainly has turned out to be a very solid game that is both easy to get into and deep. That's one of the success factor.
Regarding VF4, it's not uncommon that it is misunderstood by so many people. Mind you, it CAN be intensive and furious just as much as Tekken depending on the people playing. Since this VF4 shares closer ties with VF2, the combos can be amazing to look at as well. Unfortunately, it's a bit hard to do that. Many people "fail" to find "fun" in this series. Myself included. I tried to "love" VF. I bought 32X VF1,Saturn VF2, Dreamcast VF3 to practice to at least like it. Of course, I get whooped by the AI all the time as I quite don't have reflex for judging the timing between offense and defence. While I have currently given up due to my impatience, watching those videos of matches by real VF players pump up my desire to get better. I'm sure you all understand. VF has a steep learning curve. Even though it's easened up a bit in VF4, it's still too technical to enjoy it casually. This is kind of a game where you need to practice and practice in order to be good, and thus truly be able to enjoy the game.
PSX2 VF4 is not a crappy port. The only serious flaw I have noticed is resolution. Textures are quite decent (although still lacking compared to N@omi2) The modelling is almost perfect, and the best of all, the meat of the game, the gameplay is completely intact. While the arcade version of VF4 eats Tekken4 for dinner graphically, the PSX2 port is still not too bad. It's anything but rushed either. AM2 has taken use of texture swapping extensively. Sure it was a hell to them, but they at least pulled it off, although the result was little underwhelming.
Kolgar : At least you'll have to applaud Sega for including a kick ass extra features for VF4. Frankly, I never knew Sega would go that far. :D
Very insightful post, KOF. Thanks.
And yeah, Sega actually blew Namco out of the water with all the extras in VF4. I'm surprised and happy to say that VF4 is my second favorite fighting game behind Tekken 4.
Oh, wait! I still like Tekken Tag a lot, too. :)
Kolgar
I find Tekken the most fun because I love the offense-heavy gameplay. I also like the over-the-top moves. Realism isn't important for me - after a long day at work, I'm frankly pretty tired of realism.
I think what you meant is not offense-heavy gameplay, more like mindless button mashing, which is pretty good to unwind after a long day at work :)
VF where turtling is extremely important
Actually, if you say turtling is extemely important in VF, that's just show your style of play in VF. Turtling is only done in VF, if you don't know any better.
Since this VF4 shares closer ties with VF2
VF4 is still quite lenient in the way moves can be string together compare to VF2 as well as command input is quite lenient compare to VF2. I think Sega, should return this aspect back to VF2, where command accuracy and timing accuracy are very important.
VF1,Saturn VF2, Dreamcast VF3 to practice to at least like it. Of course, I get whooped by the AI all the time as I quite don't have reflex for judging the timing between offense and defence.
You got whooped by the AI ? You must be kidding. Even on hardest difficulty with CPU life bars set to max and yours set to min, its pretty easy to beat the CPU.
VF is easy, if you managed to blocked successfuly opponent attack most moves can be counter with PK, if opponent missed attack completely throw, simple enough huh ? you can win with PK and throws alone against CPU.
But that's boring, what you want to do is get your opponent to a condition where they are predictable. When you can do that, than you start to know what you are doing.
Higher level player and Button masher, can't be condition. That's where reflex can be useful. Knowing your opponent is also useful. But these two are quite hard, its easier if you take initiative from the beginning.
Even though it's easened up a bit in VF4, it's still too technical to enjoy it casually.
Keep it that way, the game is not supposed to be enjoyed casually. But seriously I only spend about $20 in arcade, on VF1 first time I played it, and it was pretty fun already.
But, Frankly, I am growing tired of VF and fighting games in general, after more than a decade playing alot of fighting games, I am just started to grow tired of them all. I think I am going to take a break from them until VF5 :)
You know you are playing too much videogames, when every videogames you play felt like they are in slow motion, which makes them ridiculously easy.
V3,
How's VF Evo? How do the two new guys play? And how much did they change Akira? :D
OT: I ran across SC II in a local arcade here. I thought it was still in test in Japan!! Anyways, its a WICKED game. Felt a little bit too much like SC I (which isnt bad really), and the stages are still bland, but the game was much fun.
zurich
Evo is great. They change everyone quite abit. Goh is the more interesting and more popular of the two. Honestly I rather AM2 put in back Taka than putting Burn in there.
Akira, change quite abit, new moves, that's long overdue, he moves more like a Hakkyokuken practicioners now, than a stiff looking brick. Everyone moves changes abit, they all look more natural now.
They probably need a few rivision, to get everything right, since they change quite alot of things in this refresh, compare to previous ones.
I am playing Samba De Amigo, and Keyboard Mania, abit more than fighting games or racing games at the moment. For some reasons getting perfect score in those games is more satisfying than keeping winning streak in fighting games.
Mr. Angry Pants
15-Oct-2002, 07:53
I really wish Sega would bring VF4 Evo to the Xbox. Textures were the only serious flaw in the PS2 port, and the Xbox is a texture-zilla.
I'd like fighting options on the Xbox besides DOA3 and Capcom vs. SNK 2. I don't consider the Kakuto Chojin an option, since the game sounds worse and worse with every update.
Hey, V3. Nice post. I guess you corrected me on a several account. Ok, whether you intended this or not, you gave me an encouragement to take on AI and whoop it the other way around. (Pai is tough though)
I used to be bored of 2D fighting games after Street Fighter2. Thank goodness King of Fighters is here to stay. I bet online vs. match will rejuvinate your desire to enjoy fighting games again.
BoddoZerg
15-Oct-2002, 19:56
What's the point of depth and skill in a fighting game?
If I wanted a deep counter system and gameplay that requires a lot of skill, I'd go play Starcraft or something. When I play a fighting game, the two factors I look for are how cool it looks, and the stress-relieving fun of mashing buttons non-stop and watching absurdly powerful combos come out of nowhere. (If an infinite amount of monkeys mashed on an infinite amount of PS2 controllers, they'd win every game with a Shinku Hadoken...)
Thus, Tekken and DoA are both fun, as is MvC, while VF is less appealing to me.
Tagrineth
15-Oct-2002, 20:30
Four words for you all:
Super Smash Bros.: Melée :D
What's the point of depth and skill in a fighting game?
If I wanted a deep counter system and gameplay that requires a lot of skill, I'd go play Starcraft or something. When I play a fighting game, the two factors I look for are how cool it looks, and the stress-relieving fun of mashing buttons non-stop and watching absurdly powerful combos come out of nowhere. (If an infinite amount of monkeys mashed on an infinite amount of PS2 controllers, they'd win every game with a Shinku Hadoken...)
Thus, Tekken and DoA are both fun, as is MvC, while VF is less appealing to me.
So, it's wrong for a fighting game to have a depth while it's ok for other genres? That's a flawed logic. Not that I think Starcraft is a deep RTSS or something. Dark Reign2 and Total Annihilation both blow Starcraft away in terms of depth IMO. That's besides the point. Like you said, if there are people that like Starcraft because of depth, there are certainly people who will appreciate Virtua Fighter for its depth. I prefer The King of Fighters over any other 2D fighting games because it has certain depth. (despite King of Fighters having a 16bit graphics on NeoGeo) It's not mindless as MVC, but does not have a steep learning curve like Street Fighter3. A lot of fighting games are actually close to RTSS in a way. You have to anticipate what your opponent is thinking. You can either set up a trap and await for your opponent to fall in. Of course, both of the players need to use variety of tactics. Because once they become predictable, than that's the end of them. My bro can easily punish because he knows I'm too frequent with jump-ins. (not that I always jump or anything.) Regarding Tekken, I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate Tekken4's improved depth over TTT. I know some Tekken fans prefer TTT because of Tekken4's somewhat high learning curve for a Tekken game.
Ozymandis
16-Oct-2002, 01:31
KOF, you have trouble with Pai too?
I'm ashamed to say that my girlfriend beat me like 13 straight times with Pai against my Vanessa a while back :(
Four words for you all:
Super Smash Bros.: Melée :D
Four words for YOU:
Virtual ON: Oratorio Tangram :D
(my favourite fighter)
What's the point of depth and skill in a fighting game?
If I wanted a deep counter system and gameplay that requires a lot of skill, I'd go play Starcraft or something.
VF matches is over in 30 sec, Starcraft is abit longer than that.
When I play a fighting game, the two factors I look for are how cool it looks, and the stress-relieving fun of mashing buttons non-stop and watching absurdly powerful combos come out of nowhere. (If an infinite amount of monkeys mashed on an infinite amount of PS2 controllers, they'd win every game with a Shinku Hadoken...)
Thus, Tekken and DoA are both fun, as is MvC, while VF is less appealing to me.
But I don't see VF is something with depth and skill, VF is alot more simple compare to Tekken, and certainly alot more simple than some of Capcom 2D fighters.
Perhaps, what you means, is that in other figthers, you can achieve so much with so little button mashing. :)
Logan Leonhart
16-Oct-2002, 05:12
KOF, you have trouble with Pai too?
I'm ashamed to say that my girlfriend beat me like 13 straight times with Pai against my Vanessa a while back :(
LOL :lol:
Loser!! :wink:
I would like to say that I would beat you all with Aoi, but I just got tired of fumbling my way through the game :( and ditched it for T4.8)
Ozymandis
16-Oct-2002, 12:25
KOF, you have trouble with Pai too?
I'm ashamed to say that my girlfriend beat me like 13 straight times with Pai against my Vanessa a while back :(
LOL :lol:
Loser!! :wink:
I would like to say that I would beat you all with Aoi, but I just got tired of fumbling my way through the game :( and ditched it for T4.8)
I've never tried playing with Aoi. She seems like she could be formidable in the hands of a skilled player (seems to me like many of the VF characters are like that though).
Logan Leonhart
16-Oct-2002, 20:53
She is a very good character, however, her style is decieving. I played for around 2 weeks, practicing and when I got to the advanced moves I realized most of her advanced techniques were throws...and I´m not that kind of player. :(
I tried Sarah too, but stopped after around 1 week. She felt a bit too fragile for my tastes. I could have mastered her, though.
BTW, something funny about the character models was that the body members were disjointed and it was VERY apparent. You could see that especially in the girls. :P
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