View Full Version : Official M$ Press Release On Rare
DeathKnight
24-Sep-2002, 21:17
http://www.xbox.com/news/0209/rarepressrelease.htm
$375,000,000 deal along with Banjo, Conker, Perfect Dark, and Kameo. First game to be released will be Kameo. Check it out!
RaolinDarksbane
24-Sep-2002, 21:21
Is RARE worth 350,000??? Kameo is that RPG right?
You beat me to it :(
X02: Microsoft Makes Rare Official
Tuesday, September 24, 13:11 | Talon |
In what has to be the biggest announcement today, Microsoft finally officially announced the purchase of U.K-based developer Rare. While ending the long-running rumors of the past, Microsoft revealed the acquisition was for $375 USD and, as of today, Rare will being developing games for Xbox. Moreover, Microsoft now has the rights to such titles as: Kameo, Conker, Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct, Banjo Kazooie, Jet Force Gemini, Blast Corps, Saber Corps, and many other Rare titles.
Speaking on the announcement made today at the X02 event in Seville, Spain, was Chris Stamper, chairman and technical director of Rare: "Our mission at Rare has always been to make the industry's best games for the widest possible audience. Teaming with Microsoft gives us the best opportunity to accomplish this goal. Microsoft's dedication and commitment to game creators, research and development, and to gaming innovation made them the obvious partner to take Rare into the future."
In addition to the announcement release, a video showing the event in motion was posted online. Check out the official announcement clip below.
http://www.xbox.com/cms/asx/news/rareannouncement-0001-Hi.asx (cheesy)
zurich
Cool! Something interesting...
"Kameo," is expected to reach store shelves next spring. Also under development is the highly anticipated sequel to "Perfect Dark." The company is expecting to develop at least five games over the next two years in a variety of genres, including racing, shooters and platformers.
Rodéric
24-Sep-2002, 21:55
let's see what will happen.
Too bad we don't have any insight infos about Rare, I bet a few peoples will leave, and most of the time, it's the best guys which leave the first.
(They can find a job/create a firm more easily)
I've seen a few firm buyout, and it often go wrong.
Yay, now we finally know everything.
I hope Kameo is as good as I think it's going to be, and I hope that they don't make it "darker" for Xbox.
I suspect that Rare will be exactly the same way they've always been, sans Nintendo licenses. This is a good thing.
Thank goodness that Sony didn't buy Rare! High-end graphics have always been their forte, and IMHO, PS2 doesn't cut it. I got SFA today, and it rocks. Amazing graphics, great gameplay.. high production value. Rare = t3h win!
Ingenu,
Sounds to me like plenty of people are happy with the change at Rare.
Well, apparently the quotes we got from certain Rare employees last time were not exactly indicative of the general company sentiment as a whole. Several other guys emailed us shortly after that news item went up to let us know, for the most part, things are pretty peachy over there afterall. It seems the programmers have yet to start their murderous rampage through the hallowed halls of Twycross, hellbent on destroying all the swans named Bill. Shame, in a way.
The following are opinions from inside Rare. Check it out:
"Hi guys, love the site. I noticed your piece on 'Inside Rare'. Not sure who was upset but I thought it would only be fair to give my own thoughts, and perhaps those of some others here. We're actually excited by the new direction Rare is taking and look forward to designing on a new system. Keep in touch."
"Personally I think it's the best time since I began working at Rare, and the future (whatever it is) is going to be truly amazing. But then you will just have to wait and see."
"Despite the mass of rumors shooting around...no one quite knows what we can do with this console that we just could not manage on the Gamecube - but you bloody will soon enough!! we'll all be able to do some outrageously stupid things now - such as finally complete this damned shrimping simulator."
So there you have it. If even half of Rare is this excited about a new direction for the company, I'm extremely optimistic. We may find this move acts as a reinvigorating catalyst for creativity. Shrimping, indeed.
http://www.rarenet.com/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=34
Ozymandis
24-Sep-2002, 22:04
Maybe they'll be able to keep the magic 30 frames per second now :D
marconelly!
24-Sep-2002, 22:09
Sounds to me like plenty of people are happy with the change at Rare.
Rare team meeting:
director: Who was sending those negative comments to Rarenet again?
*cricket chirping*
director: Now, send some more comments while I'm here. Thank you.
:)
oooh, MS got the rights to JFG. I hope this means we can expect a sequel.
Ozymandis
24-Sep-2002, 23:40
zurich, that news item quote that you posted, where is that from?
DeathKnight
24-Sep-2002, 23:52
PlanetXbox (http://www.planetxbox.com)
Ozymandis
25-Sep-2002, 00:02
Thanks.
Tiberius
25-Sep-2002, 00:05
Yay, now we finally know everything.
I hope Kameo is as good as I think it's going to be, and I hope that they don't make it "darker" for Xbox.
I suspect that Rare will be exactly the same way they've always been, sans Nintendo licenses. This is a good thing.
Thank goodness that Sony didn't buy Rare! High-end graphics have always been their forte, and IMHO, PS2 doesn't cut it. I got SFA today, and it rocks. Amazing graphics, great gameplay.. high production value. Rare = t3h win!
yeah sure rare need a xbox to do that :
http://www.rareware.com/html/kameo/shots.html
You can download a video clip of Kameo running on xbox here.
ftp://209.164.21.30/pub/kameo/kameo_sep02.mov
As far as i can tell, Rare hasn't lost a thing these days. This is a pretty impressive looking title. Just like starfox.
Thats Kameo? Ehhh..
Looks like their fur rendering technique got a little botched in the GC -> Xbox transition.
I have a feeling that Rare was hard pressed to show _something_ on the Xbox, and this is what they showed. :-?
Time cures all..
zurich
They are using the same technique but I don't think they wanted the thin fur effect...
Maybe they'll be able to keep the magic 30 frames per second now
Most of Rare's games struggled like that on N64.. but if you're referring to SFA's framerate.. it's 60fps.
For the most part, anyway. I've noticed some minor slowdown mostly when turning the view. Lots of stuff to render.
SFA = gorgeous. The Xbox, being somewhat faster than the 'Cube, should be a great place for Rare to show off.
Just give 'em time. BTW, I'm not sure.. but I think those Kameo shots are early and on the Xbox. As I said, give 'em time.
bas1975
25-Sep-2002, 02:26
Nintendo owns the rights to Killer Instinct. That news quote is the first I've heard of Rare getting the rights to it. None of the official announcements mention KI, and unless Nintendo sold the rights, Rare doesn't have them.
As far as I know, Nintendo had the rights to most of the other franchises involved in the deal. So it is apparent that Nintendo is selling franchises as part of the deal.
I'd like to issue a BIG thank you to all of the people who through thinly veiled insults at me when I questioned their assertion that Nintendo "owns" the company that trademarked Perfect Dark et al. and MS wouldn't get them.
Thanks again! :roll:
Steve Dave Part Deux
25-Sep-2002, 04:28
You can't SELL what you don't OWN.
bas1975, that news quote is from the offical press release. Killer intstinct went along with Rare to MS.
Johnny Awesome
25-Sep-2002, 05:25
Huge coup for MS. I thought it was a good idea BEFORE I played SFA. Now that I've played 2 hours of SFA, I think this was a brilliant move by MS. Rare is going to bring some huge cash to MS.
So was that order of crow on the way or not? ;)
Have you guys seen the new design of Ms Dark for PD0 ? shocking. If PD0 is a prequel to PD than Ms Dark should look younger, I hope Rare change PD to look more like RE or SH3 than what it is, at the moment.
Geeforcer
25-Sep-2002, 06:46
Must... not... say... must... hold... can't....
OWNED!
Yeah, you know who you are so no names will be named. Yeah, that's right: you, who said that Stamper brothers where leaving, you who said MS would not be getting Perfect Dark, Blast Corps, Banjo-Kazooie, and KIller Instinct in the extremly unlikely event should this deal happen, you who said that it will not happen, period.
Face it, you underestiamted MS, big time.
Hehe, this thread is entertaining, the hype and mis-information is running wild!
Our mission at Rare has always been to make the industry's best games for the widest possible audience. Teaming with Microsoft gives us the best opportunity to accomplish this goal
This was quite funny :) Surely teaming up with Sony or even better someone who would allow third party status like Activision would give them a far bigger audience then MS can on XBox.
Rare team meeting:
director: Who was sending those negative comments to Rarenet again?
*cricket chirping*
director: Now, send some more comments while I'm here. Thank you
Exactly what I was thinking :)
oooh, MS got the rights to JFG. I hope this means we can expect a sequel.
Killer Instinct
Where is the official announcement on that or any of the other games mentioned? (appart from the obvious ones that MS announced, PD, Conker, Banjo and Kameo). AFAICS MS did not get any of the other licences mentioned. I think MS would have mentioned them if they had them.
I'd like to issue a BIG thank you to all of the people who through thinly veiled insults at me when I questioned their assertion that Nintendo "owns" the company that trademarked Perfect Dark et al. and MS wouldn't get them.
Nintendo do own the company that trademarked Perfect Dark and all the rest, that does not stop MS getting some of these games if Nintendo chose to sell them.
It's been shown, and even half admited by a RareWare employee, that Nintendo own the rights to these games. It apears that Nintendo have sold some rights to MS to go along with the RareWare deal, but there is no info to suggest they have gotten any of the other games mentioned (Killer Instinct ect)
Even if people deny that Nintendo own Rare LTD 100% (the company that allot of those games are registered too), which is a silly thing to do considering the facts, you still cannot deny that Nintendo own (directly) allot of the games that Planet XBox claims MS will now get. Killer Instinct, for instance, is one of the games mentioned that is trademarked in Nintendo of America's name!
bas1975, that news quote is from the offical press release. Killer intstinct went along with Rare to MS.
Didn't you actually read the official press release?, it never mentioned those games. Even the RareWare trailer on the XBox official site only shows characters from the 4 games MS mentioned, Kameo, Conker, Perfect Dark and Banjo.
That bit at Planet XBox was purely of there own making AFAICS and is in no way official.. its all just assumptions from poor journalists AFAICS
To be honest I find it very unlikely that Nintendo, with few exclusive fighting games, would sell a biggish fighting licences like Killer Instinct, or that they'd sell as many licences as Planet XBox suggests. Yeah most of them aren't big licences, but I still doubt it. I'll doubt it no-longer though if we actually get something official rather then the king of the XBox fan-boy sites (Planet XBox).
Yeah, you know who you are so no names will be named. Yeah, that's right: you, who said that Stamper brothers where leaving
People on both sides of the argument said that.
you who said MS would not be getting Perfect Dark, Blast Corps, Banjo-Kazooie, and KIller Instinct in the extremly unlikely event should this deal happen,
I'm starting to agree with CaptainHowdy here, your only seeing what you want to see. AFAICS he didn't ever say MS won't get any of these games (although as of yet we have no real info saying they have got games like Blast Corps and Killer Instinct) he said IF they did get them they would have to buy them from Nintendo, how was he wrong then?
Unless I'm remembering wrong?.. maybe you should quote his exact words?
cybamerc
25-Sep-2002, 12:07
Nintendo sold everything but the original Nintendo franchises and related properties (Diddy Kong etc.).
Anyway, Kameo looks like ass and so does the new Joanna Dark character art.
Nintendo sold everything but the original Nintendo franchises and related properties (Diddy Kong etc.).
Strange that MS didn't mention them, do you have a link to this info BTW?
Where is the official announcement on that or any of the other games mentioned? (appart from the obvious ones that MS announced, PD, Conker, Banjo and Kameo). AFAICS MS did not get any of the other licences mentioned. I think MS would have mentioned them if they had them. The only people that have said MS got those games is PlanetXBox, looks like another case of assuming that RareWare own those games from some poor journalists.
Teasy, perhaps it wasn't in the press release, I could swear I read that elsewhere. Anyway, did you even bother to check to see if you are correct? Fyi Planet Xbox isn't the only website reporting this. I actually read it somewhere esle. I even just found a quote from IGN's article on this:
"IGN has confirmation that Microsoft will now own all of the intellectual properties previously owned by Rare including Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie, Jet Force Gemini, Conker, Killer Instinct, Blast Corps and Sabre Wulf."
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/371/371977p1.html
They say they got CONFIRMATION, so I'm going to believe them until I hear otherwise.
Nintendo do own the company that trademarked Perfect Dark and all the rest, that does not stop MS getting some of these games if Nintendo chose to sell them.
As I wrote above, IGN has confirmation that they got those titles. So it looks like MS got more than "some" of them.
... but AFAICS all PlanetXBox was doing was listing any RareWare game they could think of because they think that just because RareWare made the games they own the rights to the name, of course, they don't.
I think you may be wrong on that. They must have gotten that information elsewhere.
you still cannot deny that Nintendo own (directly) allot of the games that Planet XBox claims MS will now get. Killer Instinct, for instance, is one of the games mentioned that is trademarked in Nintendo of America's name!
Teasy, as far as we know MS/Rare owns these titles now. IGn got confirmation on this.
No it isn't, didn't you actually read the official press release?, it never mentioned those games. Even the RareWare trailer on the XBox official site only shows characters from the 4 games MS mentioned, Kameo, Conker, Perfect Dark and Banjo.
I read the the information elsewhere. Either way IGN GOT confirmation that these titles were included in the deal. So it wasn't just that Planet Xbox was making things up as you assume.
I'll doubt it no-longer though if we actually get something official rather then the king of the XBox fan-boy sites (Planet XBox).
What makes you think MS are going to officially say anything about titles they aren't working on games for?
You mean Quincy?
The RUMOR said the stampers were leaving or going to retire. You didn't deny that was happening and even agreed that was happeneing, so if you want to point blame teasy, fingers are pointing at everyone.
I'm starting to agree with CaptainHowdy here, your only seeing what you want to see. AFAICS he didn't ever say MS won't get any of these games (although as of yet we have no real info saying they have got games like Blast Corps and Killer Instinct) he said IF they did get them they would have to buy them from Nintendo, how was he wrong then?
You can agree with captainhowdy all you want. I wouldn't say it looks good on you. So who am I or others here going to believe? IGN who says they got confirmation and MS/Rare really have these games? Or some people in a forum that haven't gotten a single thing right about what's going on? Hmmm, I wonder....
cybamerc
25-Sep-2002, 12:36
It's been mentioned various places. Here's one article from Steven Kent: http://www.msnbc.com/news/812540.asp?0dm=C21AT
Cyrbermerc,
Anyway, Kameo looks like ass and so does the new Joanna Dark character art.
Did you even see the video clip of the game running? it looks like a typical rare game, really, really good. I personally like the new Joanna dark character. I noticed right away what was influencing the character design. An old comic book called gen-13.
Anyway, the character is going to be much more marketable the way it is now. Just watch, I can bet there will be a perfect dark cartoon down the road. Computer animated perhaps.
I still think banjo kazooie is the most faggy character ever, but everthing else looks great.
Confirmation from IGN XBox?.. hmmm.
I actually would have almost believed this quote from them if it hadn't included the part I highlighted.
"IGN has confirmation that Microsoft will now own all of the intellectual properties previously owned by Rare including Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie, Jet Force Gemini, Conker, Killer Instinct, Blast Corps and Sabre Wulf."
RareWare never owned those, we already know this. Although I suppose maybe IGN got confirmation that MS will own these licences now but just didn't realise that MS bought them from Nintendo.. so I suppose this quote can still be correct in that MS now own these licences. Still they can't be digging too deep if they still think that MS own these licences (if they indeed do) because they bought RareWare and not because they bought them from Nintendo.
If this is true then the only thing I disagree with here (when I say that I mean I disagree with what Nintendo has done) is Nintendo selling Killer Instinct. GameCube has very little in the exclusive fighting genre and they've sold the licence to a relatively big fighting game? I mean I didn't like KI much myself, but its still a well(ish) known fighting game.
I think you may be wrong on that. They must have gotten that information elsewhere.
I could be wrong on that yeah, its just the way it looked that's all.
Teasy, as far as we know MS/Rare owns these titles now. IGn got confirmation on this
I wasn't talking about what MS may have bought from Nintendo, that comment was directed at people that think that MS did not need to buy any of these titles from Nintendo. You and I both agree that whatever titles MS have with RareWare they bought from Nintendo, so we have nothing to argue about in this instance.
What makes you think MS are going to officially say anything about titles they aren't working on games for?
Yes that could be a reason that MS didn't mention any of these titles, if they did indeed get them. However all I was saying there is I will not just believe this info with nothing official, or even close, backing it up, certainly not some quote from Planet XBox. The IGN quote (al be it IGN XBox) has almost persuaded me that its true though.
The RUMOR said the stampers were leaving or going to retire. You didn't deny that was happening and even agreed that was happeneing, so if you want to point blame teasy, fingers are pointing at everyone.
Relax, my point was everyone at that time was saying the Stampers were leaving, people on both sides of the argument. If you want to say what you just said to anyone say it to Geeforcer because he seems to think that CaptainHowdy was the only person saying that the Stampers were leaving.
I've changed that comment already BTW, so it doesn't look like I'm taking a swipe at you (you mustn't have seen the change before posting).
You can agree with captainhowdy all you want. I wouldn't say it looks good on you. So who am I or others here going to believe? IGN who says they got confirmation and MS/Rare really have these games? Or some people in a forum that haven't gotten a single thing right about what's going on? Hmmm, I wonder....
What are you talking about?.. I'm agreeing with him that Geforcer is only seeing what he wants to see with regard to what CaptainHowdy has said in the past. As in AFAIK CaptainHowdy did not say that MS would not get any of these licences, he only said that IF they get the licences they will have bought them from Nintendo and not gotten them simply because they bought RareWare. I didn't even say anything about MS not getting these licences in that comment.
BTW.. you seem to be failing to realise here that I did not see any IGN quotes before making the comment you just replied to. I do not have a time machine Quincy ok.
And finally, AFAIKS I got one thing very much right here, so did CaptainHowdy in the earlier threads too, something you originally got wrong AFAIR. That Nintendo own/owned the licences for (I'm still not 100% convinced that MS got anything more then those 4 games) all the games that RareWare worked on.
cybamerc
I don't suppose you could point out the part, in that article you linked, where it mentions all those games going to MS could you? Its just that its soo big and I can't be bothered to read it at college. If not I'll just read it later instead and comment then.
Rodéric
25-Sep-2002, 14:03
where can I find rare promo movie ?
don't want to install Windows MP7.1 just to get it from Xbox.com, and can't get the one on rareware.com...
any link ?
Guys, Enuf about IP's. MS has got them and frankly they can have them. The XB needs som color. It'll brighten up all of those games with dark grays, browns and etc.
Yeah most of them aren't big licences, but I still doubt it. I'll doubt it no-longer though if we actually get something official rather then the king of the XBox fan-boy sites (Planet XBox).
Teasy, They might not be big licenses anymore compared to Nintendo's "Game Giants" but they will/should quickly become the XB biggest. It really needs them. Halo being the exception.
BTW, PGC is reporting that Rare will still be making GBA games for Nintendo. WOW! How strange. But a great move for Nintendo to at least retain a relationship with Rare hhmmmm. Odd but nice if this is true.
cybamerc
25-Sep-2002, 14:04
Qroach:
> Did you even see the video clip of the game running?
Yes. It looks like crap. The game doesn't look interesting at all and the art is atrocious. I didn't like the way it looked at E3 2001 but Rare has actually succeeded in making it look even worse.
Technically it's also pretty underwhelming which is hardly a surprise considering how long it took Rare to make SFA look like a next gen title. Anyone hoping that Kameo will see similar improvement by its release next spring are fooling themselves... unless of course Rare follows its usual practice and delays the game.
> Just watch, I can bet there will be a perfect dark cartoon down the road.
Nintendo announced plans for a movie and tv series a while back. I wonder what will happen with that now.
Teasy:
A bit lazy are we?
"We kept [the rights to] Killer Instinct, Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, and a number of other character sets that were not a part of Nintendo,"said Hochberg. "That includes Battletoads, Blast Corps, and Perfect Dark."
Goldni:
> BTW, PGC is reporting that Rare will still be making GBA games for
> Nintendo. WOW! How strange.
Not really... M$ is a registered GBA developer and also released some GBC titles.
Teasy:
A bit lazy are we?
When it comes to reading through a large page of PR, especially when I'm tired and stressed (at college trying to work my way through this C++ course) yeah I am lazy. But as I said I would have read it later if you hadn't wanted to point it out to me.
Johnny Awesome
25-Sep-2002, 14:43
I love Kameo, including the art direction. It was my Gamecube game of the show at E3 2001. I'm looking forward to it next Spring, only on Xbox.
Confirmation from IGN XBox?.. hmmm.
Hmm, so what. Not to mention that cybermerc posted a link that confirmed it again. Who's your source for saying this "isn't" the case?
RareWare never owned those, we already know this.
They own them now and that's all that really matters. I could really careless about who once owned them and who didn't anymore. There was obviously some sort of conflict on this since we saw many things trademarked under differnt names.
I could be wrong on that yeah, its just the way it looked that's all.
It didn't look like that to me, but that's my take on it.
so we have nothing to argue about in this instance.
ok fine... i guess you weren't clear enough earlier. i thought you meant somthing else.
However all I was saying there is I will not just believe this info with nothing official, or even close, backing it up, certainly not some quote from Planet XBox. The IGN quote (al be it IGN XBox) has almost persuaded me that its true though.
Well, the quote from the heads of Rare should be enough to push you over the top. Convinced now?
I've changed that comment already BTW, so it doesn't look like I'm taking a swipe at you (you mustn't have seen the change before posting).
no i actually didn't.
I'm agreeing with him that Geforcer is only seeing what he wants to see with regard to what CaptainHowdy has said in the past. As in AFAIK CaptainHowdy did not say that MS would not get any of these licences, he only said that IF they get the licences they will have bought them from Nintendo and not gotten them simply because they bought RareWare. I didn't even say anything about MS not getting these licences in that comment.
Well I too remrmber what captainhowdy said. let's just say that i don't agree with you on this point and leave it at that.
BTW.. you seem to be failing to realise here that I did not see any IGN quotes before making the comment you just replied to. I do not have a time machine Quincy ok.
Ok, no time machine, well you must have though I had one when you tried to say that i was "wrong" in Rare going multiplatform when Activision was the lead company for the purchase. You couldn't seem to understand that the deal changed when they struck a deal with MS.
(I'm still not 100% convinced that MS got anything more then those 4 games) all the games that RareWare worked on.
You need to read the entire article cybermerc posted. If you're not convinced after that then nothing will help you.
Ozymandis
25-Sep-2002, 17:20
Kameo looks good to me. I only read up on this game a couple of months ago, but the pic on the back of my Cube box looked pretty cool :P
We need more RPGs on Xbox, so when that game comes out, it'll help fill the void a little. I just hope they improve the Gamecube-quality visuals :oops:
:evil:
Get a grip. I couldn't care less that Rare is MS owned now, and on XBox. Why? Because I'm getting a f*cking XBox for Christmas to go along with my Cube.
Geez people. Buy the consoles you want to play games on. Enough with this fanboy sh*t.... :roll:
Hmm, so what. Not to mention that cybermerc posted a link that confirmed it again. Who's your source for saying this "isn't" the case?
Firstly, don't try to tell me that you would believe IGN Cube on something like this, because you most deffinately would not. Secondly, once again, I do not have a time machine. I did not see the comment Cybamerc was refering to until after the post you just replied too, is this so hard to grasp?
They own them now and that's all that really matters. I could really careless about who once owned them and who didn't anymore. There was obviously some sort of conflict on this since we saw many things trademarked under differnt names.
I really don't think your reading my comments very thoroughly at all, you just seem to want to argue. The point of that comment, the one you missed completely, was to cast doubt on the knowledge of the person that wrote that IGN quote. Not that it matters now, but it did at the time.
ok fine... i guess you weren't clear enough earlier. i thought you meant somthing else.
I was absolutely clear, evidently you simply do not read things thoroughly enough before replying.
Well, the quote from the heads of Rare should be enough to push you over the top. Convinced now?
Absoltely I do believe that MS acquired these licences from Nintendo:
Killer Instinct, Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, Battletoads, Blast Corps, Perfect Dark, Kameo
Ok, no time machine, well you must have though I had one when you tried to say that i was "wrong" in Rare going multiplatform when Activision was the lead company for the purchase. You couldn't seem to understand that the deal changed when they struck a deal with MS.
I said you posted about one Rare rumour on this forum a while ago, and no matter what anyone else's opinion was it was "going to happen", and it never happened. Wether it was going to happen and then fell appart, as you now say, or not is irrelivent, it still didn't happen did it. No time machine envolved there.
Ozy
We need more RPGs on Xbox, so when that game comes out, it'll help fill the void a little.
When do you think that will be though? Not before 2004 IMO.
I just hope they improve the Gamecube-quality visuals
What exactly is a GameCube visual? You mean you hope they improve the visuals, which aren't exactly great for PS2 never mind GameCube.
Ozymandis
25-Sep-2002, 19:29
Ozy
We need more RPGs on Xbox, so when that game comes out, it'll help fill the void a little.
When do you think that will be though? Not before 2004 IMO.
I just hope they improve the Gamecube-quality visuals
What exactly is a GameCube visual? You mean you hope they improve the visuals, which aren't exactly great for PS2 never mind GameCube.
Actually Kameo is announced by Microsoft as being in 2003. I think it will be released in the first six months of the year, probably towards May or June.
And by Gamecube-quality visuals I mean exactly that. Lots of flat-shading, high poly models but no bump-mapping, mediocre texturing, etc etc. Looks like the average Gamecube game.
Actually Kameo is announced by Microsoft as being in 2003. I think it will be released in the first six months of the year, probably towards May or June.
Kameo is scheduled for a fall 2003 release, now unless I'm wrong fall means around September right? So at earliest its looking like late 2003, don't you think it'll be delayed at least once given RareWare's past delays?
And by Gamecube-quality visuals I mean exactly that. Lots of flat-shading, high poly models but no bump-mapping, mediocre texturing, etc etc
So what console was Rogue Leader made on then?.. was it not GameCube? What about all the other great looking games on GameCube?, were they all infact made on XBox? This is typical of your usual blinkered Nintendo fan baiting. You really do have a nasty tendency to troll sometimes.
Kameo looks like a average to poor GameCube game, allot worse then RareWare's only finished GameCube game (SFA) and far worse then many other gameCube games.
Looks like the average Gamecube game
So the average looking XBox game has loads of bump mapping and great high res textures?.. get a grip man.
Tagrineth
25-Sep-2002, 20:32
And by Gamecube-quality visuals I mean exactly that. Lots of flat-shading, high poly models but no bump-mapping, mediocre texturing, etc etc. Looks like the average Gamecube game.
...sounds like PS2 to me. GCN's *STRONG POINT* is its texturing...
Magnum PI
25-Sep-2002, 21:09
And by Gamecube-quality visuals I mean exactly that. Lots of flat-shading, high poly models but no bump-mapping, mediocre texturing, etc etc. Looks like the average Gamecube game.
...sounds like PS2 to me. GCN's *STRONG POINT* is its texturing...
and PS2 *STRONG POINT* being poly thoughput.. (IMHO)
and i don't think you can see a lot a bump mapping on PS2.
Firstly, don't try to tell me that you would believe IGN Cube on something like this, because you most deffinately would not. Secondly, once again, I do not have a time machine.
If they reported it along with other websites, then yes. you seemed to jump to conclusions without really looking to be certain Imo.
I really don't think your reading my comments very thoroughly at all, you just seem to want to argue. The point of that comment, the one you missed completely, was to cast doubt on the knowledge of the person that wrote that IGN quote. Not that it matters now, but it did at the time.
i'm the one that seems to want to argue? hardly, your defending you postion with you now know is not correct. Why bother? unless all you wan tot do is argue. No, i'm reading your comments, i just wish you quit flip flopping all the time. Anyway, your "point" was total waste of time. You were trying to discredit the IGN article/quote by using a section of the article that didn't realy matter. That much was obvious to see.
I was absolutely clear, evidently you simply do not read things thoroughly enough before replying.
Riight. Whatever...
Absoltely I do believe that MS acquired these licences from Nintendo:
Good for you. It's about time ;)
I said you posted about one Rare rumour on this forum a while ago, and no matter what anyone else's opinion was it was "going to happen", and it never happened. Wether it was going to happen and then fell appart, as you now say, or not is irrelivent, it still didn't happen did it. No time machine envolved there.
When I said "it was going to happen", that was referring to Rare splitting off from Nintendo.
Teasy,
Kameo looks like a average to poor GameCube game, allot worse then RareWare's only finished GameCube game (SFA) and far worse then many other gameCube games.
Put your nintendo pom poms away for a while. :roll: that comment is pathetic.
Tagrineth
25-Sep-2002, 22:04
And by Gamecube-quality visuals I mean exactly that. Lots of flat-shading, high poly models but no bump-mapping, mediocre texturing, etc etc. Looks like the average Gamecube game.
...sounds like PS2 to me. GCN's *STRONG POINT* is its texturing...
and PS2 *STRONG POINT* being poly thoughput.. (IMHO)
and i don't think you can see a lot a bump mapping on PS2.
Precisely what I meant...
Ozy, whatcha talkin' bout anywho? :P
DemoCoder
25-Sep-2002, 22:23
Isn't it amazing how people who were lavishly praising Rare a year ago when they were defending the GC have now completely changed their story? First it was that Nintendo would never let Rare go. In fact, they must not let them go! (why?) Later followed by, well, Rare sucked anyway and hasn't been making good games, so it's no big loss.
And remember the common GC story, about how Rare games don't look the best, but they are fun to play? Now the same "graphics aren't everything people" are bashing upcoming Rare titles for how they look.
I wonder how far back the search archives go in this forum. :)
If Factor 5 or Sega went MS exclusive, you'd see the same irrationalism "they sucked anyway, no big loss, etc"
Can't GC boys afford to buy more then one console? Most gamer friends I know own atleast 2 or 3, and usually more, like a DreamCast as well.
IMO
Kameo does look a bit underwhelming for an xbox game, and i think the GC version looks better at this point
i wonder how long they took to port that for the video?
but i like the new look of Joanna Dark :)
-aneep-
Ozymandis
25-Sep-2002, 23:44
And by Gamecube-quality visuals I mean exactly that. Lots of flat-shading, high poly models but no bump-mapping, mediocre texturing, etc etc. Looks like the average Gamecube game.
...sounds like PS2 to me. GCN's *STRONG POINT* is its texturing...
Gamecube's texturing is nice in theory. In practice, it hasn't produced too much of note. Rogue Leader has nice textures, and Eternal Darkness has *some* nice textures. Not sure about Star Fox, but I've heard good things there too. Overall though, Cube games haven't had the kind of texturing that I'd expect.
I've thought about this a bit. It might very well be that the art style of most of the exclusive games tends towards a very flat look. The console is definitely capable of doing some nice texturing. Look at the bumpmapped water in SMS and Pikmin, or the snow textures on Hoth in Rogue Leader. And then you see this kind of texturing in the actual games:
http://images.nintendo.com/nintendo/contents/gamepage/gamecontent/images/m/mariosunshine715_gcn_ss2.jpg
http://images.nintendo.com/nintendo/contents/gamepage/gamecontent/images/l/luigismansion_gcn_ss5.jpg
Is it possible that developers are just trying to cram all of the textures in the texture cache?
Jesus christ, even have many sites have confirmed (mostly via talking to the Stamper Bros themselves at X02) about the acquisition of the franchises there are STILL Nintendo fanboys running around stating that it doesn't make any sense since MS bought "Rareware" only (got a link to that, btw?), and "Rare Limited" owned the other franchises.
Reality check....
Either way, MS has them now. Get over it.
After getting deep into SFA and seeing most of Rare's next-gen technology in action, I can say a few things.
A. The fur-shading in those new Kameo shots = s**t compared to SFA's. Give them time. :)
B. The GCN is capable of more than SMS shows at 30fps, given what's possible in SFA at 60fps.
C. The texturing in the game is above-average but there's no detail-textures (a layman's term for those textures in Halo/Unreal that get ultra-detailed when you're close) With the exception of that, the game seems to reach Xbox-level visuals consistently.
D. Rare = t3h kickass. What they do with the GameCube in graphics and animation is stunning. Once again, I'll agree that Xbox is more powerful than GCN.. but games like SFA, Metroid, and Rogue Leader show that it's a minimal difference.
Hmm, maybe developers aren't utlizing the texture cache correctly and trashing it. Maybe it is simply art direction. Whatever it is, I wouldn't blame it on the hardware because I think it is obvious that it is capable of some nice texturing.
Anywho, Kameo looks nice, although I wouldn't say it looks any nicer than it did on GC. Given some time though, I am sure Rareware will come out with some very nice games on XBox.
*crosses fingers for a JFG sequel*
DeathKnight
26-Sep-2002, 03:25
The Stamper brothers revealed that the footage of Kameo shown in the X02 trailer was from two and a half weeks' worth of work.
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2881605,00.html
Some other interesting info is in there as well.
Yeah I'm really into SFA and it's textures really look as good as anything on Xbox or GC in some areas (the underworld powerup ones). But you can still see the N64 like textures in some areas too. The lighting is great as is the water. The shadows have been shaped up since the demo but still arent as nice and dynamic as Conker's.
The fur is the most impressive thing by far. This game realls is the first game to use fur shading. Crash really doesnt count. SFA fur was shown and announced way before Crash's and of course Rare being Rare delayed it 9 months. What's neat about the fur is the different kinds of fur. For example, Krystal's is nice and fluffy (fine). SFA and Peppy's is rougher looking. And the Mammoths fur looks different. The grass looks nice too. SFA really shows what the Gamecube can do. And it's really just the beginning. Overall SFA is a nice game. I'd say 8.9/10 as of now.
After getting deep into SFA and seeing most of Rare's next-gen technology in action, I can say a few things.
Most people know this but its worth repeating:
A good deal of the development, especially the closing development on SFA, was actually done by Nintendo engineers. Nintendo not only rescued the title (originally called Dinosaur planet) but they put a serious amount of money and GC know how into finishing that title off.
Without Nintendo's guiding hand who knows where rare will waunder off to now?
C. The texturing in the game is above-average but there's no detail-textures (a layman's term for those textures in Halo/Unreal that get ultra-detailed when you're close) With the exception of that, the game seems to reach Xbox-level visuals consistently.
Not all xbox games are at Xbox level 8)
The fact is, at the current time, the GC has very few exclusive titles (that could show off the power of the GC) and a lot of multi platform titles. Add the fact that Nintendo does not to seem to put priority on the same technical features that you could find on some xbox games (like bump mapping).
Anyway, the xbox is more powerful than the GC. That is what you can do when you can allow to lose billions of $ on a console, a luxury that Nintendo has not.
Quincy
If they reported it along with other websites, then yes. you seemed to jump to conclusions without really looking to be certain Imo.
As far as I was aware two sites were reporting it, Planet XBox and IGN XBox. If so many sites had reported it then I would have expected you to pick a more reputable one then IGN XBox, that was my opinion at the time. I looked around at different sites and saw no mention of this story and so my scepticism stayed, especially with the IGN writers obvious lack of knowledge, until I saw something more believable. Apparently though you would just like me to believe every rumour I hear before its even confirmed.
i'm the one that seems to want to argue? hardly, your defending you postion with you now know is not correct. Why bother? unless all you wan tot do is argue.
No I'm not, I just said that I would believe that MS had bought those licences after I actually got some evidence of that. What I'm defending is my right to be sceptical of something until I actually see evidence.. what exactly is your problem with that?
No, i'm reading your comments, i just wish you quit flip flopping all the time. Anyway, your "point" was total waste of time. You were trying to discredit the IGN article/quote by using a section of the article that didn't realy matter. That much was obvious to see.
Firstly no your not reading them thoroughly enough, that much is obvious from your constant mis-understandings. Secondly it did matter at the time to a degree, because if they don't even know that Nintendo owned these games then they may just have been assuming MS got these licences along with RareWare. In the end that wasn't the case, but it could very well have been the case.
Riight. Whatever
Don't bother trying to pretend your in the right here, you totally mis-understood what was an obvious comment, there's nothing wrong with that, until you start stubornly blaming me for your mis-understanding.
Good for you. It's about time
On the contrary its exactly the right time, anyone who believed it from reading one IGN XBox article, like you, did so for obvious reasons ;)
When I said "it was going to happen", that was referring to Rare splitting off from Nintendo
Yeah whatever man, you said ALLOT of different things in those threads.
Put your nintendo pom poms away for a while. that comment is pathetic.
Does Ozy also have Nintendo pom poms then?.. because he also thinks its an average looking game. If its an average looking game then that means that it looks far worse then allot of GameCube games. If you'd seen anything of this game a while ago before any of this happened you'd have exactly the same opinion, that its an average looking game, but apparently it gets better when someone sticks an XBox sticker on the box ;)
DemoCoder
I don't know who your talking about, because I know I have not changed my opinion on Rare since quite some time ago. But I find it strange that you focus on any GameCube fans that might have suddenly changed there minds on Rare and mention nothing about all the XBox fans that suddenly think Rare are the bees knee's. For instance there are people here who apparently hated every aspect of Goldeneye and even say it was laughable, but now that this deal has happened all of a sudden they can't weight for Rare's first FPS on XBox... not much sense there.
Ozy
You couldn't have picked a worse, more poorly done pic of SMS then that, look at the brightness of the pic. Although yeah overall the textures in SMS aren't too good, but that's Mario for you.
Glonk
Jesus christ, even have many sites have confirmed (mostly via talking to the Stamper Bros themselves at X02) about the acquisition of the franchises there are STILL Nintendo fanboys running around stating that it doesn't make any sense since MS bought "Rareware" only (got a link to that, btw?), and "Rare Limited" owned the other franchises.
I don't know which world your living in mate, but there is nobody here still saying that MS did not get these licences. I said I would not believe it until I saw evidence, then I saw evidence and said I believe it. In fact this is quite funny, because your actually the only person here that still doesn't believe that Nintendo owned all these franchises, not RareWare LTD, and so MS bought them from Nintendo and did not get them free with RareWare. As for proof, here is a financial report (below). It shows that at that time, before the deal with MS, RareWare limited were 49% owned by Nintendo, but Rare Limited, a seperate company is owned 100% by Nintendo, as is Rare Inc, Rare Toys and Games Inc and Rare Acquisition Inc. Therefore RareWare Limited down not own Rare Limited or Rare Inc ect.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/report/financialstatements_5-30-02.pdf
I think that's the right one, I can't see it at College for some reason.
If so many sites had reported it then I would have expected you to pick a more reputable one then IGN XBox, that was my opinion at the time.
Fine, that's was your opinion, no matter how wrong it was. Anyway, if this was a story on IGN cube you woul have no doubt believed it, and one section of the gaming site is NOT more reliable than the other.
I looked around at different sites and saw no mention of this story and so my scepticism stayed, especially with the IGN writers obvious lack of knowledge, until I saw something more believable. Apparently though you would just like me to believe every rumour I hear before its even confirmed.
it looked to me like you only looked at one website since all you did was complain about planet xbox and calling them fanboi's. It wasn't a RUMOR Teasy, and your attempt to try and discredit the writter on something irrelevant in his article, was just a waste of time. You know you were wrong so i don't see the point in you defending that.
No I'm not, I just said that I would believe that MS had bought those licences after I actually got some evidence of that. What I'm defending is my right to be sceptical of something until I actually see evidence.. what exactly is your problem with that?
You can call it being skeptical, but i call it just being ignorant. IGN said they confirmed it and you still didn't believe it. So obviously IGN must be lying or had it wrong because in YOUR eyes it didn't make sense. you keep saying you wanted evidence to prove they really got those game licenses, yet you don't have ANY evidence to believe otherwise.
Firstly no your not reading them thoroughly enough, that much is obvious from your constant mis-understandings.
It's more like you don't know what you're trying to say, or what you are saying doesn't make sense. Which is pretty common from you. When you say stuff like, Rare isn't anything like they once were, they have been going down hill for years. Even though you always include starfox adventures on your list of must have GC titles. Then when starfox comes out and is really good, you claim this is a MUCH better game then the other projects they are working on because nintendo helped them, yet you continue to forget how nintendo helped them with those N64 games when they were going "down hill" in your opinion. That's flip flopping in typical teasy style
Secondly it did matter at the time to a degree, because if they don't even know that Nintendo owned these games then they may just have been assuming MS got these licences along with RareWare. In the end that wasn't the case, but it could very well have been the case.
In the end you don't really know what happend, do you? Here's a clue, did Nintendo own battletoads? Obvisouly not So some games came over in the deal with RARE. So shut up about it already, it's over. The deal happened, and they got the games they wanted, now get on with your life.
On the contrary its exactly the right time, anyone who believed it from reading one IGN XBox article, like you, did so for obvious reasons
I told you alreayd, but you continue NTO to listen. I read that info elsewhere, and just came across it again at IGn after reading your BS post. How many times to I have to explain that. Either way, your excuse for not believing IGN when they say they confirmed it, is nothing more that typical fanboi BS. you didn't believe it, becuase you didn't want to believe it. you jumped to conclusions, so don't try and make it seem like it was just skepticism. It wasn't IMO. I can also say that arguing with me about is going to solve nothing, becuase nothing you say will change my opinion on it.
Yeah whatever man, you said ALLOT of different things in those threads.
yeah a lot of things you can't seem to rember correctly.
Does Ozy also have Nintendo pom poms then?..
No, ozy doesn't have to like a build of the game that only took two weeks to get running on Xbox if he doesn't want to. He also didn't try to claim that the game looks far worse than many GC games and a lot worse then the "last finshed GC game". That's pom pom waving and complete BS.
Bryanb
A good deal of the development, especially the closing development on SFA, was actually done by Nintendo engineers. Nintendo not only rescued the title (originally called Dinosaur planet) but they put a serious amount of money and GC know how into finishing that title off.
This isn't true at all. The game was started and completed entirely at Rare. They didn't hand any of the devleopment over to nintendo engineers. My god, some of you will think of any excuse to make it seem like this company won't survive or can't make a great game title with out Nintendo.
I love Rare. They are among the top coders in the world (along with Factor 5, Bungie, ID, imo). They will be just fine on the Xbox. They will be successful. To what degree remains to be seen. I really dont see them reaching the audience that they did on Nintendo systems..at least not as big of one.
I personally hate the 'kiddizing' of Kameo and Joanna Dark ( think XIII). That move puzzles me with the XB skewed to PC gamers who are into 'older' type games. I'm sure they are trying to 'pull' some Nintendo fans over to XB. But Rare will be fine as will MS (everywhere but Japan). And Nintendo will be keep rolling with the punches as well. It's gonna be neat to see what surprises they have in store as far as developement partners. It's a ton of $$ cheaper to make the deals they are making. It's faster and easier development times. It's profitable for both parties involved. It free's up Nintendo's internal teams to be able to develope lots of games in a shorter amount of time. And besides, Who wouldnt want to work for Nintendo on one of thier worldwide popular franchises? ..oh.. Rare.
EDIT: I can truly say that I'll miss Conker and Banjo the most. The rest MS can have (especially if they go the path the artwork shows). There again I'm interested in any new original games they may show. Also interested in who left and who stayed at Rare as a result of this. Can't wait to see any new Free Radicals this may have created.
cybamerc
26-Sep-2002, 14:55
Ozymandis:
> We need more RPGs on Xbox, so when that game comes out, it'll help
> fill the void a little.
Calling it an RPG is streching it a little...
> I just hope they improve the Gamecube-quality visuals
Please... you sad troll.
SFA from the same company looks significantly better in every aspect. Textures are better, lighting is better, fur shading is better, art direction is better and poly counts are higher. That's not to say that the gfx won't improve (you're stuck with the art though) but considering how slow Rare is (took them 1.5 years to make SFA look decent) there's no way in hell it's not going to look like ass if the spring 2003 release date holds.
Qroach:
> that comment is pathetic.
How was his comment pathetic? Kameo doesn't look good. If you can't admit that I'd say the one who ought to put his pom poms away is you.
How was his comment pathetic? Kameo doesn't look good. If you can't admit that I'd say the one who ought to put his pom poms away is you.
What's pathetic is the thought that this game looks worse then other GC titles or even the notion that this title won't look good wihtout nintendo's help. anyone that says the game looks worse now then it did on GC is simply being fanish. It's the same game.
They only have been working on porting it for two weeks, and after seeing the video clip, it certainly isn't looking any worse than starfox (which looks good IMO). Don't think that I don't consider you to be a pom pom waver too.
Fine, that's was your opinion, no matter how wrong it was. Anyway, if this was a story on IGN cube you woul have no doubt believed it, and one section of the gaming site is NOT more reliable than the other.
Actually no I would not have believed it from IGN Cube either if the article had been as vague and uninformed as the IGN XBox one. I would have brought up the same questions as I did for the IGN XBox article.
it looked to me like you only looked at one website since all you did was complain about planet xbox and calling them fanboi's.
I didn't call Planet XBox fanboy's, I said there article was a poor one with no actual conformation at all, just there own opinions. Also I mentioned them because they were the source posted on this thread. What do you want?, me to mention one of the other sites I looked at that I could not find any of this info on?.. your really making no sense at all here.
It wasn't a RUMOR Teasy
Until I saw actual conformation that's exactly what it was. A few people on this forum said something and backed it up with a vague and un-informative article from Planet XBox and I'm supposed to suddenly take that as fact? Yeah as more reliable sources came to view it became apparent that it was true, but I think you'll find that un-confirmed truth is a rumour, because how does anyone know something is true before its confirmed?
and your attempt to try and discredit the writter on something irrelevant in his article, was just a waste of time. You know you were wrong so i don't see the point in you defending that
How many times do I have to say something before it sinks in with you? The article was saying that MS now owned x franchises because they had bought RareWare.. that is wrong and so made the article very suspect, how is that irrelivant? It's irrelivant now obviously, but wasn't at the time.
Of course it turned out to be true that MS got the franchises, but not in the way the guy who wrote the article thought. Which suggests that either he was right by sheer luck or that he did get info to say that MS got the franchises and simply assumed that was because RareWare owned them in the first place. But considering he did not actually give any source for his info I was not sure wether he had gotten any real confirmation or wether he might have just been confusing RareWare with Rare.
And BTW I was not wrong, go back to my posts, I did not say that MS deffinately did not get these franchises. What I did say is that I questioned the validity of the info I was seeing in this thread because it looked to me like the article could have been basing its info on incorrect assumptions. Because of that I would not believe this was the absolute truth until I saw something more solid. I didn't even say for sure that I deffinately thought that the article was wrong, I even questioned my own reasoning on thinking that it was wrong (obviously you ignored that) but still thought that the article wasn't really good enough to be 100% sure the story was true.
You can call it being skeptical, but i call it just being ignorant. IGN said they confirmed it and you still didn't believe it. So obviously IGN must be lying or had it wrong because in YOUR eyes it didn't make sense.
And how did they confirm it?, they didn't even say. How did I know what he meant by confirmed? At the time, for all we know, they could have looked at copyrights, saw that Rare LTD had the rights to the games, confused RareWare LTD with Rare LTD (which they did in that very article) and then that would, to them, have confirmed that MS now had those licences.
you keep saying you wanted evidence to prove they really got those game licenses, yet you don't have ANY evidence to believe otherwise.
Your really not thinking before you type here. Nintendo owned all of those franchises, so until I heard different they still owned them, that is just simple logic. Something is the way you know it to be until you are shown that it has changed. I'll put it this way, just for you. Say you own a car, you park it and go into a pub. A bloke you know, but don't particularly trust, comes in and tells you its not where you parked it. Now what are you going to do?.. remain skeptical about this until you see for sure that its not parked there (after all you know you parked it there) or just believe the bloke on the spot and take the bus home.. after all it might have been stolen.. maybe :) I mean common, this is pathetic, I express some mis-givings about information that has not been confirmed in anyway (at that time, obviously it has been now) and suddenly I'm being unreasonable for doing so.
It's more like you don't know what you're trying to say, or what you are saying doesn't make sense. Which is pretty common from you.
I just wanted to leave it and not bother with this but you won't let it go. Lets look at the comments that started all this shall we.
First Glonk said:
I'd like to issue a BIG thank you to all of the people who through thinly veiled insults at me when I questioned their assertion that Nintendo "owns" the company that trademarked Perfect Dark et al. and MS wouldn't get them.
I then replied with:
Even if people deny that Nintendo own Rare LTD 100% (the company that allot of those games are registered too), which is a silly thing to do considering the facts, you still cannot deny that Nintendo own (directly) allot of the games that Planet XBox claims MS will now get. Killer Instinct, for instance, is one of the games mentioned that is trademarked in Nintendo of America's name!
At that point its clear that I'm arguing with someone on the point that Nintendo did own all of the franchises before they went to MS. How is that not clear?
You then replied with
Teasy, as far as we know MS/Rare owns these titles now. IGn got confirmation on this.
I was perfectly happy to just explain what I meant to you and leave it at that, but then you come along and have the cheek to put the blame for the mis-understanding on me.
When you say stuff like, Rare isn't anything like they once were, they have been going down hill for years. Even though you always include starfox adventures on your list of must have GC titles
So its repeating myself time again now is it?, oh well I've come to expect that several times a post with you.
At first, to me, RareWare were fantastic.. gaming gods, even Nintendo didn't match them. What was this due to?.. one thing, Goldeneye. I played Goldeneye both one player and two player for years, it was my favourite game of all time, a masterpeice. So saying that RareWare are not what they once were does not mean that RareWare are crap, it means they are not what they once were IMO. The problem with RareWare is if they are not absolutely fantastic then its hard to justify the time they spend on games. SFA is apparently a very good game, but for the time it took you need it to be nothing short of exceptional if its going to be worth paying so much money for them.
RareWare had been working on SFA for almost 5 years, also Nintendo did allot of work on SFA. So yes I would have been very suprised if it had turned out as not a very good game and so obviously it would go on my big game list.
Then when starfox comes out and is really good, you claim this is a MUCH better game then the other projects they are working on because nintendo helped them
I've never said that AFAIR, but please feel free to post the quote were I said that.
yet you continue to forget how nintendo helped them with those N64 games when they were going "down hill" in your opinion.
Every game they made on N64 was of a high standard, but I only ever owned Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, and Perfeck Dark was disapointing given how fantastic Goldeneye was. Of course by then they had already lost key members of the team. Nothing else Rare ever made was anywhere near as good as Goldeneye IMO. Still quality though, and I would be suprised if they didn't keep making quality games, but I'm not sure how quickly they'll make them.
In the end you don't really know what happend, do you?
Err, yeah I do, MS bought the licence to all the games RareWare had worked on that did not include characters created directly by Nintendo. Again your totally missing the point, this is not about what I know now, it is about what I knew when I first questioned that article.
Here's a clue, did Nintendo own battletoads? Obvisouly not So some games came over in the deal with RARE
Obviously not?.. how do you know? According to the copyrights for Battle Toads the owner was Rare LTD.. a 100% owned subsidiary of Nintendo.
So shut up about it already, it's over. The deal happened, and they got the games they wanted, now get on with your life.
Oh my, :roll: your the one going on about it, your the one crying and complaining that I didn't immediately believe whatever I'm told. If you get on with your life and stop arguing over my right to be skeptical then I can get on with mine.
I told you alreayd, but you continue NTO to listen. I read that info elsewhere, and just came across it again at IGn after reading your BS post.
Oh yeah of course, you er.. read it somewhere but er.. can't remember where so I'll just have to make do with a link to IGN XBox and a massively vague and un-informed article. Frankly Quincy I would not trust you as far as I could throw you so until I saw a reliable source, like the one Cybamerc gave me, I was not going to believe 100% that the info was true.
Either way, your excuse for not believing IGN when they say they confirmed it, is nothing more that typical fanboi BS. you didn't believe it, becuase you didn't want to believe it. you jumped to conclusions, so don't try and make it seem like it was just skepticism.
I said I would not take it as real evidence due to the fact that it was a dubious article, that is being skeptical not saying outright 100% that the article was wrong. Go on, post a quote from me were I said catagorically that the article was wrong and that MS did not get the franchises mentioned. You can't do it because I said no such thing.
It wasn't IMO. I can also say that arguing with me about is going to solve nothing, becuase nothing you say will change my opinion on it.
I wouldn't expect it too because unfortunately your opinion makes no sense and is based on nothing but blind love of the XBox, its impossible to argue against nonesense. But if you think I'm going to stop arguing so you can feel good about yourself that you won an argument, well sorry its not going to happen.
yeah a lot of things you can't seem to rember correctly.
I don't need to remember, I saw the thread recently. You said many things, like the fact that RareWare just would not go on as an exclusive dev. They had to leave to be third party and if Nintendo would not allow them to be third party the staff would leave and make there own company. Well their desire of being third party must have disapeared rather rapidly as soon as MS made an offer, strange. From wanting to have more control about which console they deved for, and being owned 49% by Nintendo, they went to not caring about making games for more then one console and were 100% owned by MS.
No, ozy doesn't have to like a build of the game that only took two weeks to get running on Xbox if he doesn't want to.
Heh, but I do.. yeah that's logic for you.
He also didn't try to claim that the game looks far worse than many GC games
He said that the game looked average, that means it has to look worse, in his opinion, then many GameCube games (Rogue Leader, SFA to name just two GameCube games that look very nice indeed).
and a lot worse then the "last finshed GC game". That's pom pom waving and complete BS.
So because I think that SFA looks allot better then Kameo I'm "pom pom" waving?, you just have to get a grip you really do.
What's pathetic is the thought that this game looks worse then other GC titles
How is it pathetic to think that Kameo looks worse then other GameCube titles?, it looks worse then Rogue Leader, it looks worse then SFA, it looks worse then Metroid Prime, it looks worse then quite a few GameCube games. Surely your not really trying to tell me that Kameo looks at least equal to the best looking games on GameCube?
or even the notion that this title won't look good wihtout nintendo's help
Who said that?
Don't think that I don't consider you to be a pom pom waver too.
Heh, Cybamerc isn't in your class of pom pom waving Quincy, your in a whole different pom pom waving league to him man.
Johnny Awesome
26-Sep-2002, 17:56
My thoughts:
Cybamerc + Teasy = Nintendo pom pom boys.
Kameo = Great art design + good GCN-quality graphics that will hopefully improve.
QRoach, I admire your patience but this discussion isn't really worth your time. 8)
Johnny Awesome, your a troll mate, as shown by that rather pathetic post. When someone starts posting things like someone = something its not very far away from saying things like L33T and sux ect.
Its also very sad that you admire Quincy simply because you two share a fanatical irrational love of XBox.
Teasy,
No actually I would not have believed it from IGN Cube either if the article had been as vague and uninformed as the IGN XBox one.
Since you couldn't find the quote that proved this was the case in the article cyber pointed out, you must not be reading these articles completely, becuase the IGN article was NOT vauge OR uninformed. They clearly stated that the CONFIRMED the information was true. Also, you argued in the past that IGN cube was more reliable than IGN xbox. So now your saying you were wrong regarding that?
I would have brought up the same questions as I did for the IGN XBox article. Planet GameCube recently reported that MS had gotten Perfect Dark, Banjo ect (the ones MS mentioned in that press release) and I posted on the articles part of the forum asking for actual conformation. Because the article was vague, and I wanted to make sure that they were not simply thinking that RareWare already owned these games. So your wrong there.
I'm not wrong, Teasy YOU were wrong. End of story...
I didn't call Planet XBox fanboi's
(edit: I added the word fanboi since the forum removed the word)
Teasy, yes you did call them that. When you said:
"I'll doubt it no-longer though if we actually get something official rather then the king of the XBox fan-boy sites (Planet XBox)".
Do you remember saying that? This is what I'm talking about when i say you aren't reading things. You haven't even read what you've written.
your really making no sense at all here.
I am? You're the person not making sense here. You don't even know what you've been writting. Not to mention the fact your still arguing something you were clearly wrong about, and trying to back your reasoning with something totally irrelevant.
Until I saw actual conformation that's exactly what it was.
You saw CONFIRMATION on IGN, yet you still didn't believe it.
how does anyone know something is true before its confirmed?
When an actual new website that was at the X02 event reports that they confirmed this information to be true. Then you can, or at least should believe them. You don't have any real reason to doubt them, other than the fact you don't want to.
Again your not reading my comments, how many times do I have to say something before it sinks in with you? The article was saying that MS now owned x franchises because they had bought RareWare.. that is wrong and so makes the article very suspect, how is that irrelivant?
Again, are you blind? I can see exactly why you pointed that out. The only reason you mentioned this as your "reason" for the article being suspect is because YOU don't want to believe it. in your eyes, if other parts of the article sdon't seem accurate, then the entire article is not accurate. As i menitoned before and you still argue, that part of the article isn't relevant to IGN saying they confirmed something to be true!
Of course it turned out to be true that MS got the franchises, but not in the way the guy who wrote the article thought. Which suggests that either he was right by sheer luck or that he did get info to say that MS got the franchises and simply assumed that was because RareWare owned them in the first place.
Yes it turned out to be true, becuase they actually got confirmation at the X02 event that this was the case. "Sheer luck"? omigod, you'll find any excuse to try and not think you were not correct in your intial assumption.
Of course people like you believed it instantly without a thought, because it suits you.
Earth to blind guy, I told you before that i read about it elsewhere. I didn't see it on IGN until you made your rather uninformed post.
And how did they confirm it?
IGN was at the X02 reporting on the entire event. Take a wild guess!
As I said I didn't want to do that as its pretty unimportant, but you just would not let this go...
I'm not the one that won't let this go? do you even know what you are arguing over anymore teasy? you arguing for your stance on something you compeltely had wrong.
So its repeating myself time again now is it?, oh well I've come to expect that several times a post with you.
A comment like this coming from the person still arguing over nothing? very funny :lol:
RareWare had been working on SFA for almost 5 years, also Nintendo did allot of work on SFA. So yes I would have been very suprised if it had turned out as not a very good game and so obviously it would go on my big game list.
They have NOT been working on this game for almost 5 years! where do you get this garbage? This game was once going to be called dinosaur planet before Nintendo wanted them to make it into a starfox game. nintendo didn't help with the programing or art, so other than some of the design changes i doubt they had any mroe invovlement then other projects at Rare.
I've never said that AFAIR, but please feel free to post the quote were I said that.
It was implied.
Still quality though, and I would be suprised if they didn't keep making quality games, but I'm not sure how quickly they'll make them.
That is the first reasonable thing you've said in this thread. I agree.
Err, yeah I do, MS bought the licence to all the games RareWare had worked on that did not include characters created directly by Nintendo. Again your totally missing the point, this is not about what I know now, it is about what I knew when I first questioned that article.
So what about games like battletoads? Nintendo didn't own the rights to that game. how can they sell what they don't own?
Obviously not?.. how do you know? According to the copyrights for Battle Toads the owner was Rare LTD.. a 100% owned subsidiary of Nintendo.
...and what made you think Rare LTD is 100% owned by Nintendo? They didn't own 100% of the shares in teh company. So how could they own everyhing they developed 100%?
Oh my, I really wonder wether you think about what your writting before posting. Your the one going on about it, your the one crying and complaining that I didn't immediately believe whatever I'm told. If you get on with your life and stop arguing over my right to be skeptical then I can get on with mine.
You can tell me to get on with my life, ok fine, I HAVE. It's you that hasn't and it's exactly why you keep bringing up this Rare LTD garbage over and over. Forget about it teasy....
Oh yeah of course, you er.. read it somewhere but er.. can't remember where so I'll just have to make do with a link to IGN XBox and a massively vague and un-informed article. Frankly Quincy I would not trust you as far as I could throw you.
Ha, that's funny, do you really think i care if you would trust me? With your track record, I wouldn't believe a thing you've been saying.
its impossible to argue against nonesense.
Yet you continue on with more nonesense... go figure.
But if you think I'm going to stop arguing so you can feel good about yourself that you won an argument, well sorry its not going to happen.
Oh, LOL, now that comment takes the cake. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. Isn't that smart? :roll:
I don't need to remember, I saw the thread recently. [quote]
Lol, you don't? i'd suggest you start if your going to go about trying to bring points up form the past!
[quote]You said many things, like the fact that RareWare just would not go on as an exclusive dev.
For one thing, the RUMORS said they were going multiplatform. I said they wouldn't go consle exclusive IF they were purchased by Activision.
They had to leave to be third party and if Nintendo would not allow them to be third party the staff would leave and make there own company.
That's what I was told by the ex head of the Leeds Sony office. Why, where did you get your info from? Your little brother?
Well their desire of being third party must have disapeared rather rapidly as soon as MS made an offer, strange. From wanting to have more control about which console they deved for, and being owned 49% by Nintendo, they went to not caring about making games for more then one console and were 100% owned by MS.
I'm not going to go into this again Teasy. You're obviously a little too dense to understand any sort of explanation.
He said that the game looked average, that means it has to look worse, in his opinion, then many GameCube games (Rogue Leader, SFA to name just two GameCube games that look very nice indeed).
In your opinion. great... We all know what yourt opinion is. :roll: all i know is that i wouldn't trust you or your opinion as far as i could throw it ;).
Johhhny, i agree
Teasy,
Its also very sad that you admire Quincy simply because you two share a fanatical irrational love of XBox.
LOl! Funny, how we were arguing about all this before Xbox was even invovled. If anyone here has an "irrational love towards and inanimate object, it's yourself. The way you rabidly defend it, you'd think it was your child.
Btw Teasy, I guess you were wrong about who owned some of the game properties.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/812540.asp?0dm=C11MT
“We kept [the rights to] Killer Instinct, Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, and a number of other character sets that were not a part of Nintendo,†said Hochberg. “That includes Battletoads, Blast Corps, and Perfect Dark.â€
I suspect you won't trust this article, or find some way to discredit the author. Perhaps you want to argue with Hochberg (american co founder of Rare) about who really owned these licenses?
As I said previously I'm sure there was some dispute over who owned what. Nintendo, however didn't OWN everything. The way I see it, if Nintendo really owned anything Rare worked on you would see the Nintendo name on the trademark. The only game that happend for was Diddy Kong racing.
Just for the people interested. Have a look at Dinosaur planet (Star Fox Adventures before it was changed on the N64) looked pretty good for a N64 game.
http://www.mystdrag.com/dinosaurplanet01.mov
Some might recognize some of the stuff in the video...
Geeforcer
26-Sep-2002, 19:47
This discussion is hilarious. The whole arguments of GC crowd regarding who owns rights to what was based on the single link on Nintendo's website that listed how the companies are related to Nintendo. It was posted over and over and over again (and I see Teasy did it yet again here), as an unimpeachable proof that MS is not going to get any licenses out of this deal. The argument went something like this: "Well, this and that was devloped/publisehd by X, and X is a part of Nintendo, hence Nintendo owns this and that." Newsflash: The glorious link to nintendo.com didn't say who owns rights to any of the software in question. Just because someone develops something doesn't mean that they came up with the premise and own rights to it.
Of course people like you believed it instantly without a thought, because it suits you.
LOL - Quincy had evidence to back up his beliefs. You had... nothing, except for massive denial. There is that subtle difference between believing in what suits you while having evidence to back it up and believing (or in this case, not) with 0 evidence to back up your position (save the aforementioned link of glory). So Teasy, do tell: when did IGN Xbox that you worked so hard to discredit posted some outrageous rumor that was 100% false? In other words, what so undermines their credibility in your eyes, besides them posting the news that Teasy does not appreciate? And "uniformed" article? THEY were right, YOU were wrong... so who here is the uninformed one, exactly?
RareWare had been working on SFA for almost 5 years, also Nintendo did allot of work on SFA. So yes I would have been very suprised if it had turned out as not a very good game and so obviously it would go on my big game list.
Link? Magazine reference? ANYTHING?
Just for curiosity, the Microsoft PR just said that Rare games averaged at 1.4M (Ed Fries) and that total sale sof Rare games at 90M ;) (J Allard)
That means, they have released like 60 Million seller (on average) ;)
my god, Rare should have bought Nintendo with all this money.
You should stop with this talk. your messages are so long you are the only one to read it.
Why are u guys still arguing IP's? Who cares? The deal is over. BTW the interview of the Stampers is up....
" We've just reached a point where we changing direction, but we still have a great relationship with them and we still have some Game Boy titles that we'll be delivering for Nintendo. "
Chris Stamper said that. They also said there was no "rift" with Nintendo. No haggles over IP's at all. They even had the deal worked out in less than a day (the IP's part). So alot of people were way wrong on several fronts. They stated that they left Nintendo for a "change in directions"...not because of Nintendo bullying them or telling them what to do. I think they should just come out and say "we could not control our erections after seeing the $$ MS held in front of us"..but oh well..that's not good PR speak..albeit probably some truth to it..haha.
I'm not sure why Nintendo would still let Rare/MS put GBA games out. It's plain the GBA does not need Rare/MS. I just dont see what Nintendo has to gain from that move. Any ideas?
I'm not sure why Nintendo would still let Rare/MS put GBA games out. It's plain the GBA does not need Rare/MS. I just dont see what Nintendo has to gain from that move. Any ideas?
As far as I know, Nintendo has the rights to make the rules for admission on GBA as they will, but they can not change them nor prevent some dev which satisfies the rules from developpping on GBA.
The rules are simple (if I am not wrong): either you are a GBC dev and you can get GBA dev kits, or you have to dev GC games as the same time you develop on GBA.
Square satisfies the second rule, Rare satisfies both rules.
You're not going to see any mention of bad blood between MS/Rare and Nintendo. Airing something like that to the public would no doubt result in some sort of lawsuit. Or, part of the deal would require either side to be quiet about the circumstances behind everything.
You're right though Goldni, arguing baout this IP is a total waste of time considering how the deal has been finalized.
I think nintendo is letting them release games on GBA becuase they will still make money off those games.
cybamerc
26-Sep-2002, 21:08
Qroach:
> What's pathetic is the thought that this game looks worse then other GC
> titles.
It doesn't look worse than the worst looking Cube title but it certainly doesn't look as good as the best. Saying that the gfx are "Gamecube-quality" is simply ridiculous trolling.
> anyone that says the game looks worse now then it did on GC is simply
> being fanish. It's the same game.
Has Kameo changed at all from its original conception on GameCube?
Tim Stamper: It's changed since it was last seen, but it hasn't changed just because it's on Xbox. But all the core gameplay elements are definitely still there.
That's Tim Stamper calling you a moron.
> it certainly isn't looking any worse than starfox
http://www.rareware.com/html/kameo/k_ss/Kameo_ss_24.jpg
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/starfoxad_091302_25.jpg
Sure it isn't...
> Don't think that I don't consider you to be a pom pom waver too.
Right, and you're the very personification of objectivity.
Get over yourself.
Johnny Awesome:
Way to contribute to this thread you sad twit.
Geeforcer:
> It was posted over and over and over again (and I see Teasy did it yet
> again here), as an unimpeachable proof that MS is not going to get any
> licenses out of this deal. The
There's been talk of problems with Nintendo over Banjo-Kazooie. What was that all about?
Ed Fries: That was one of the rumours floating around in the last month, that there was some kind of battle between Nintendo and Microsoft over this IP - it actually couldn't be further from the truth. Everything was very straightforward, what it [Nintendo] wanted and what we wanted, and it was sorted out in less than a day. There were many opportunities where Nintendo could have made this difficult, but it was great about it all the way through.
Nintendo clearly had claims on some of the properties but wasn't interested in them. Now go away.
It doesn't look worse than the worst looking Cube title but it certainly doesn't look as good as the best. Saying that the gfx are "Gamecube-quality" is simply ridiculous trolling.
Why don't you and you anti xbox crew WAIT until the game is finshed? Go, the game is in developement and they just got it running on Xbox. give them a little time, or do you think every game looks polished when it months away?
Quote:
Has Kameo changed at all from its original conception on GameCube?
Tim Stamper: It's changed since it was last seen, but it hasn't changed just because it's on Xbox. But all the core gameplay elements are definitely still there.
That's Tim Stamper calling you a moron.
Whatever cyber. That's tim stamper confirming what I was saying earlier. Did you even notice the part where he says it "hasn't" changed just because it's on Xbox?
cybamerc
26-Sep-2002, 21:39
Qroach:
> Why do you and you anti xbox crew WAIT until the game is finshed?
> hmmm?
Why should we wait? According to you it looks as good as SFA now.
> Go, the game is in developement and they just got it running on Xbox.
I'm not saying Rare can't do better on Xbox. I'm questioning if they can work fast enough to make it look better by spring 2003.
> or do you think every game looks polished when it months away?
I'm not the one saying it looks as good as SFA.
> Did you even notice the part where he says it "hasn't" changed just
> because it's on Xbox?
Did you notice the part where he said it has been changed since it was last shown?
Ozymandis
26-Sep-2002, 22:59
cybamerc, maybe you should relax with all the name-calling. That's just not warranted here.
Ozy
You couldn't have picked a worse, more poorly done pic of SMS then that, look at the brightness of the pic. Although yeah overall the textures in SMS aren't too good, but that's Mario for you.
That's not far removed from how the game looks on my HDTV in progressive-scan. It doesn't look quite that bad, I grant you that, but the texturing really IS that awful :-?
cybamerc
27-Sep-2002, 09:39
Ozymandis:
> cybamerc, maybe you should relax with all the name-calling.
I will once you and your anti Cube crew stop trolling.
> It doesn't look quite that bad, I grant you that, but the texturing really
> IS that awful
Er... no. Lots of detail is missing because of the poor capturing. Granted... the textures are far from hi-res but in general they fit the visual style of the game well.
Ozymandis
27-Sep-2002, 10:00
Ozymandis:
> cybamerc, maybe you should relax with all the name-calling.
I will once you and your anti Cube crew stop trolling.
> It doesn't look quite that bad, I grant you that, but the texturing really
> IS that awful
Er... no. Lots of detail is missing because of the poor capturing. Granted... the textures are far from hi-res but in general they fit the visual style of the game well.
Trolling? Hardly. I give my opinion and I stand behind it in my next posts. I don't consider that trolling. I don't see too much trolling going on here at all, but I DO see you flying off the cuff and insulting other posters :(
And you don't need to tell me how Super Mario Sunshine looks. I've played it at home, and seen 4 of the worlds. The game looks pretty bad. I agree that it's not quite as bad as in the capture (which BTW is Nintendo's own) but it's pretty assy-looking. Especially the textures, excepting the water which does look good.
cybamerc
27-Sep-2002, 10:39
Ozymandis:
> I give my opinion and I stand behind it in my next posts.
It's a ridiculous opinion expressed in an inflammatory way.
> The game looks pretty bad.
Compared to what? As you point out the water looks excellent, you have some truly awesome DOF and motion blur, great particle effects, the goo and paint, projected shadows everywhere (not particularly advanced but still more than you see in most games) cool little touches such as reflections in puddles and windows with moving textures to simulate depth. The draw distance is also pretty damn nice... the fact that you can see other levels miles away is just plain cool.
Don't get me wrong. SMS is neither the best looking nor the most technically advanced game EVAR but saying the game looks bad is just dumb.
BenSkywalker
27-Sep-2002, 15:55
My $.02
Mario looks dated. The water is incredible, DoF is actually a bit annoying, nothing else is impressive on the tech/graphics front. Even their art design was a bit off on this one, there is no binding theme in the architecture despite the entire game being played on one island. Mario was a but underwhelming for a current title and a serious let down for a Mario title(which have always pushed the envelope even in the gfx department). It's still hands down the best platformer ever released, just not much worth talking about on the gfx front.
Kameo doesn't look very good on the visual end right now. It certainly doesn't stand up to SFA in any way, not even the artistry seems to be all the way there yet. It is currently my most highly anticipated XBox title(knocking off KOTOR which is saying a lot from me ;) ), and I have full faith that Rare will deliver yet another great title as they have done time and time again. I expect it will surpass the visuals in both artistry(Kameo simply has a better theme to let artistic style shine) and technical basis by the time it ships. If that will actually be spring of '03..... I'm not holding my breath but certainly not because of MS's involvement. This is Rare we are talking about :)
Ozymandis
27-Sep-2002, 17:22
My $.02
Mario looks dated. The water is incredible, DoF is actually a bit annoying, nothing else is impressive on the tech/graphics front. Even their art design was a bit off on this one, there is no binding theme in the architecture despite the entire game being played on one island. Mario was a but underwhelming for a current title and a serious let down for a Mario title(which have always pushed the envelope even in the gfx department). It's still hands down the best platformer ever released, just not much worth talking about on the gfx front.
That's about how I feel as well. I also felt that the depth-of-field and especially the heat wave effects were extremely annoying. Not as annoying as FLUDD's voice ( :evil: ), but quite annoying.
Actually I pretty much prefer SM64 gameplay-wise too. I'm not too keen on the game's manual camera. Maybe I need more time to get used to it.
I personally hate the 'kiddizing' of Kameo and Joanna Dark ( think XIII). That move puzzles me with the XB skewed to PC gamers who are into 'older' type games. I'm sure they are trying to 'pull' some Nintendo fans over to XB. But Rare will be fine as will MS (everywhere but Japan).
EDIT: I can truly say that I'll miss Conker and Banjo the most. The rest MS can have (especially if they go the path the artwork shows). There again I'm interested in any new original games they may show. Also interested in who left and who stayed at Rare as a result of this. Can't wait to see any new Free Radicals this may have created.
what 'kiddizing'? i see the same kameo as it was on the GC a few years ago (E3 2001?)
maybe the main character's model has been changed though, i remember her being smaller (younger) in the past
i have to dig the E3 videos again
and the new PD look has been rumored since it was in development for GC as well
-aneep-
cybamerc
27-Sep-2002, 22:56
Ozymandis:
> I'm not too keen on the game's manual camera. Maybe I need more
> time to get used to it
It's been a while since I played SM64 but I remember the camera being pretty much the same as in SMS. Personally I like that you can control the camera and I find it rather natural too. What I don't like is the horrible camera AI that will make constant adjustments even after you have moved the camera into a position that you like. Because there is much more to do in SMS it becomes more of a problem than it did in SM64 - plus at the time it was really quite revolutionary.
Personally, I think a combination of a user controlled camera and director controlled camera (certain angles chosen especially for tricky places) would be ideal. They might as well dump the intelligent camera for platformers as we're not quite at the point where the computer can read ones mind.
aneep:
> i see the same kameo as it was on the GC a few years ago (E3 2001?)
The Kameo character design is pretty much the same except that she now has wings. Creature and level design has been changed a lot in general though.
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