DD 5.1, 480p and 1080i in GT 4?

[ManuVlad3.0]

http://img154.exs.cx/img154/2271/gt4jp8ri.jpg

Link (http://www.playstation.jp/scej/title/gt4/main.html)

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DD 5.1, 480p and 1080i in GT 4. This is possible?

[Evil_Cloud]

http://img154.exs.cx/img154/2271/gt4jp8ri.jpg

Link (http://www.playstation.jp/scej/title/gt4/main.html)

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DD 5.1, 480p and 1080i in GT 4. This is possible?

Photo mode maybe, but not in-game. ;)

[cthellis42]

I can't read the text next to 1080i, but assume it might be talking about the Photo modes?

Sound-wise, the last I'd heard was they'd revamped to DPL2, so...

[ManuVlad3.0]

http://img154.exs.cx/img154/2271/gt4jp8ri.jpg

Link (http://www.playstation.jp/scej/title/gt4/main.html)

--------------------------------
DD 5.1, 480p and 1080i in GT 4. This is possible?

Photo mode maybe, but not in-game. ;)

Right.
And DD 5.1? Replay only?

[zurich]

http://img154.exs.cx/img154/2271/gt4jp8ri.jpg

Link (http://www.playstation.jp/scej/title/gt4/main.html)

--------------------------------
DD 5.1, 480p and 1080i in GT 4. This is possible?

Photo mode maybe, but not in-game. ;)

Right.
And DD 5.1? Replay only?

More like cutscene/intro a la MGS2 heh.

[cthellis42]

Right.
And DD 5.1? Replay only?
More like cutscene/intro a la MGS2 heh.
IGN was talking about it as a "gameplay addition" but I think it's something we won't know for sure until the full version actually hits the reviewers proper. Some year... :P

[HappyBread]

Maybe 1080i is supported in game afterall. :o


Found a problem here:
GT4 does not support 1080i during the whole game, when you go back to menu, title screen or map the resolution will return to 480p, high solution only in gaming only.

Someone already complained this will really damage their HDTV.

[cthellis42]

Wait... what? In game they could deliver 1080i but for some reason they fall back to 480p at the TITLE SCREEN?! :shock:

Does not compute...

[PowerK]

Maybe 1080i is supported in game afterall. :o


Found a problem here:
GT4 does not support 1080i during the whole game, when you go back to menu, title screen or map the resolution will return to 480p, high solution only in gaming only.

Someone already complained this will really damage their HDTV.
Not a chance.

[HappyBread]

Confirmed by a second person at GTPlanet. :D

1080i is totaly true. You can choose normal, progressive(480p),
Hivision(1080i) at option menu. Also Splender,Contrast,Shade(Tone),
Darkness can change.

[Qroach]

This doesn't sound right, since when has the PS2 been capable of 1080i res? As far as I recall, it hasn't.

[-tkf-]

This doesn't sound right, since when has the PS2 been capable of 1080i res? As far as I recall, it hasn't.

We need a translation:

http://ruliweb.dreamwiz.com/ruliboard/read.htm?main=ps&table=gr_gt&page=1&num=37207&find =&ftext=&left=

[maskrider]

It is 480p or 1080i in game from what I've read in a Taiwanese forum.

And BTW, it is DPL II, not DD 5.1.

Taiwanese are lucky as they get the game earlier this time, Kaz is in Hong Kong for the GT first sale ceremony (and signing games) and no one sells it earlier than 28/Dec, damn !

[McFly]

I'm speechless! :shock:

GT3 is one of my most played games and now I simple can't wait till I have this one!

Fredi

[thop]

1080i in 10.80 FPS :D

[HappyBread]

http://www.oiln.com/bindata_20041227/board_data/1/7/16762341_1.mpg

http://www.mobile01.com/newsdetail.php?id=1684


I need this game... :cry:

[McFly]

I guess this is the game I will get for both, PS2 and PSP. ;)

http://gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52535&page=7&pp=20

Fredi

[MechanizedDeath]

Doesn't GT3 render internally at a high resolution, like 960p, before downsampling to VGA resolutions? I'm pretty sure Kaz said this during the GT3 development period. The lack of mipmapping made everything a mess and might have provided diminished returns, but I'm pretty sure I read something about that years ago. I'm too lazy to search though, but it was from Kaz Yamauchi. Anyway, Polyphony Digital are coding gods anyway. I hope they get the most powerful hardware to work with next gen, no one'll be able to touch 'em. :) PEACE.

[cthellis42]

This doesn't sound right, since when has the PS2 been capable of 1080i res? As far as I recall, it hasn't.
I thought it was more of a "no developer would want to spend the time and effort to deliver a game at 1080i, which would run inherently slow and be extremely hard to deliver good-looking graphics at playable rates" thing. If they manage to deliver something more meaningful than 1080i in photo more or a cutscene or the like, then perhaps that explains some of the delays!

Need more developer input on the feasability of this, though. Polyphony is a top-notch developer, but that can't deliver what actually can't be done. I could see them striving to deliver a pared-down 1080i version to give players the ability to choose a more fine display with lower-quality grapics/performance if it's within the realms of reason, though. (Question is, will it be "reasonable" for the people who love GT?)

We need a translation:

http://ruliweb.dreamwiz.com/ruliboard/read.htm?main=ps&table=gr_gt&page=1&num=37207&find =&ftext=&left=
Not from BabelFish you don't! Where "Under the picture quality where 1080 I finish a force, clearly large grade the clearness which is sharp this is a possibility of seeing the saw blade which is the possibility of feeling the overwhelming power which is this HD will be only the R246 to this runway inside" is only the beginning! :P :wink:

[Inane_Dork]

Even at 24 bit color and 16 bit depth, a 1080i framebuffer exceeds the PS2's VRAM. It would certainly be impressive if they did this in real-time given that consideration.

I wasn't even aware that the PS2 had an video output capable of 1080i.

[london-boy]

Well i really have to see this to believe it.
Oh wait, the PAL version won't have it anyway...... Errr..... :twisted:

[AlStrong]

It must be for a separate mode... why separate the 480p and 1080i in the text?


...then again, I'm no specialist for the Japanese language. :P

[passerby]

FYI, Dragon Quest 8 supports 1080i as well, and I have the game.

[Li Mu Bai]

FYI, Dragon Quest 8 supports 1080i as well, and I have the game.

I respect you passerby, but I need to know how it was accomplished technically. This is also the first I've heard of DQ8 running in 1080i, despite talking to others who also have the game.

[ysoya]

Even at 24 bit color and 16 bit depth, a 1080i framebuffer exceeds the PS2's VRAM. It would certainly be impressive if they did this in real-time given that consideration.

I wasn't even aware that the PS2 had an video output capable of 1080i.

Horizontal resolution may be around 640, not much as 1920.
With scanline interleaving trick, 1080i = 540p
1080i could be achieved at a little more cost.

[Fafalada]

I wasn't even aware that the PS2 had an video output capable of 1080i.
It does, as well as 1280x1024P - GS was originally designed for settop boxes.

Either way, in-game is out of the question. A 1080i buffer takes 2MB flat even in 16bit.

For normal rendering this gives you only two options - Either run a game single buffered, or without a ZBuffer (neither would work with a 3d game particularly well) and in each case you also have NO textures at all.

So the only alternative to even get a game using textures to run would be a multipass solution which would be swapping parts of the rendering buffer in/out of main memory, but that would render several times slower then normal single pass rendering, and it would also take away a fair share of already limited main memory.

This is how Photo mode works btw(or any other game's hi-res screengrabs you see on the web that are taken from PS2 devkits) - you render multiple smaller resolution blocks and assemble them into high resolution screen somewhere in main memory.


Of course, one could always set the video mode to 1080i, and then either display 640x480 in a small window or use CRT scaling to stretch it to the whole screen, but that would still be 640x480 in the end. :P

[AlStrong]

This is how Photo mode works btw(or any other game's hi-res screengrabs you see on the web that are taken from PS2 devkits) - you render multiple smaller resolution blocks and assemble them into high resolution screen somewhere in main memory.


Kinda like Doom 3 with super high res screenshots. :)

[Cryect]

I have to say I would prefer 720p over 1080i but oh well.

[passerby]

but I need to know how it was accomplished technically. This is also the first I've heard of DQ8 running in 1080i, despite talking to others who also have the game.
Just like people never read the &%$!#@ *$!% manual :P , do people never mess around or check out the settings menu? It's right there - "standard" or "widescreen".

To clarify things I'm not running in widescreen. I use a converter to play games on a lcd monitor. The converter supports 1080i however, so I was able to check that widescreen really worked - everything becomes squeezed-up on the monitor, but there's definitely more scenery.

one could always set the video mode to 1080i, and then either display 640x480 in a small window or use CRT scaling to stretch it to the whole screen, but that would still be 640x480 in the end.
That may our reason there. But since I don't play in widescreen actively I'm not able to compare whether the 1080i mode 'looks lower resolution' compared to 480i.

[Inane_Dork]

Horizontal resolution may be around 640, not much as 1920.
With scanline interleaving trick, 1080i = 540p
1080i could be achieved at a little more cost.Don't you dare call that 1080i, for it's not even close. :P

[passerby]

everything becomes squeezed-up on the monitor, but there's definitely more scenery.
I just described what Faf was describing, right? Render a "squeezed-up" image with more scenery in 640x480, but set the mode to 1080i.

[ultimate_end]

Well all that the text on the playstation.jp page Manuvlad posted says is
"Others: 5.1ch surround correspondence, progressive (480p) output correspondence, Hi-Vision (1080i) output correspondence".
"対応" can also mean "interaction" apparently. But I wouldn't think the "1080i" is referring to anything other than photo-mode though.

What I find interesting however, is that Kazunori Yamauchi said once that GT4 wouldn't have any progressive scan mode, because it looked awful. But now here we have the official japanese website claiming 480p. I guess they must have found a way to get it to look good then? Either that or SCE insisted that the game must have a progressive scan mode, in which case we can look forward to an "awful" looking 480p. Ofcourse, Kazunori could have been lying about it all this time and wanted to surprise us :D.

[Fafalada]

While we're on subject of upscaling - I think 720x480 is the most likely balance act here actually. It has marginally different requirements from regular 640x480P, so game wouldn't need to make any sacrifice for it at all.
It's also one of the two DTV modes that PS2 supports, and when running the game at 60hz, switching to interlaced scanning gives you 720x960, when running in higher video mode like 1080I.
With upscaling, that would make for a reasonable faximile of 1080I, and it would in fact have more pixels on screen then when viewing non-HDTV mode too.

Kinda like Doom 3 with super high res screenshots
Yep, and those also do things like photo mode with extra AA and soft shadows etc.

[ultimate_end]

While we're on subject of upscaling - I think 720x480 is the most likely balance act here actually. It has marginally different requirements from regular 640x480P, so game wouldn't need to make any sacrifice for it at all.
It's also one of the two DTV modes that PS2 supports, and when running the game at 60hz, switching to interlaced scanning gives you 720x960, when running in higher video mode like 1080I.
With upscaling, that would make for a reasonable faximile of 1080I, and it would in fact have more pixels on screen then when viewing non-HDTV mode too.

So you're saying that there is a chance that 480p will look great and there may in fact be a 1080i mode, even if it is sort of cheating in a sense? Sounds good to me, I mean this is the PS2 afterall :D.

[AlStrong]

Is there a mention of transferring these photos to some...usb key/jumpdrive to put onto a computer :?:

That would be awesome. :)

[cthellis42]

Thanks Faf. It was my understanding (from older posts probably including yours ;) ) that getting it workable would be too hard to do it "truly" would produce a pile of suck, and "kludging it" would be too slow and inefficient to be of use. Like, that you could output Qix at 1080i easily, but not anything from the past five years. ;)

My assumption was that it would be able to produce 1080i in Photo mode--since "1080i" is indeed getting bandied about even on official sites--but if it's indeed only that, or a product of some finesse and upscaling, what are so many people getting fooled by?

Ah well... it's the press. Your suggestion (720x480P --> 720x960i, which could then be upscaled or "fit to size" in 1080i) is only a 12.5% increase over 480p (at 60 hertz) so could probably be managed. The question is "how good would it look?" If it comes off well, it would be an interesting thing to see other developers adopt to make the PS2 reasonably more hi-def now that HDTV's are more common. (Not that I'd expect too much unless it were easy, though. The AAA developers will probably be moving to all next-generation high-profile products now, and other projects are less likely to be concerned with anything like that, or want to spend the resources to bring it about.)

Is there a mention of transferring these photos to some...usb key/jumpdrive to put onto a computer :?:
It has been said that the USB port can be used to transfer files to the PC, so on USB drives: probably, since USB drives are recognized in many other forms.

[ultimate_end]

Is there a mention of transferring these photos to some...usb key/jumpdrive to put onto a computer :?:

That would be awesome. :)

Well on the photo mode page of the website, it says that in addition to printing out the photos on a printer, "storage on USB memory is possible".
I don't know exactly what this means, but I'm assuming that it's referring to USB drives etc. It doesn't say any more about it than that unfortunately.

[Fafalada]

but if it's indeed only that, or a product of some finesse and upscaling, what are so many people getting fooled by?
Video mode would still switch to 1080I - which is something you can actually check on your HDTV. You can't check the actual pixel size, but as long as it looks sharper then regular NTSC(which hypothetical 720x960 would), what else is there for a user to assume?

The question is "how good would it look?"
At least 2x vertical resolution, and no flicker filtering - sharper then NTSC obviously - though the lack of filter would make interlacing more evident.
As for how easy it is - for games that already keep a stable 60fps, it really shouldn't be any harder then what they already do on interlaced displays.

[-tkf-]

At least 2x vertical resolution, and no flicker filtering - sharper then NTSC obviously - though the lack of filter would make interlacing more evident.


Hmm i guess my Projector would down convert it to 720P, so gone be the interlace :-)

[maskrider]

Got it.

http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-video-opt.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-audio-opt.jpg

I didn't experience any framerate problem yet on 480p with a lap in the Nurburgring. Played with 1080i for only a minute and no framerate problem yet. 1080i is very clean and sharp.

[-tkf-]

Got it.

I didn't experience any framerate problem yet on 480p with a lap in the Nurburgring. Played with 1080i for only a minute and no framerate problem yet. 1080i is very clean and sharp.

What kind of TV do you have!

Ohhh and just a tiny bit of hate goes your way... :-)

Tell me if you need help with hosting of your Video Files showing 480/1080 :-)

[maskrider]

Got it.

I didn't experience any framerate problem yet on 480p with a lap in the Nurburgring. Played with 1080i for only a minute and no framerate problem yet. 1080i is very clean and sharp.

What kind of TV do you have!

Ohhh and just a tiny bit of hate goes your way... :-)

Tell me if you need help with hosting of your Video Files showing 480/1080 :-)

I use a transcoder with my LCD monitor, which causes a lot of hassles with GT4 as it is fixed at 480i in the menu, it switch mode when goes to start race menu.

I want to make movies on them, but I don't have device capable of capturing at that resolution. Heh !

[-tkf-]

Got it.

I didn't experience any framerate problem yet on 480p with a lap in the Nurburgring. Played with 1080i for only a minute and no framerate problem yet. 1080i is very clean and sharp.

What kind of TV do you have!

Ohhh and just a tiny bit of hate goes your way... :-)

Tell me if you need help with hosting of your Video Files showing 480/1080 :-)

I use a transcoder with my LCD monitor, which causes a lot of hassles with GT4 as it is fixed at 480i in the menu, it switch mode when goes to start race menu.

I want to make movies on them, but I don't have device capable of capturing at that resolution. Heh !

Pretty impressive .-)

Any jumps/problems with Aspect Ratio and 480p/1080i in combination with 16/9

[HappyBread]

Can you try playing online using the LAN mode with Xlink Maskrider?

www.teamxlink.com

[maskrider]

Can you try playing online using the LAN mode with Xlink Maskrider?

www.teamxlink.com

Will try later as I need to go out with my family.

[HappyBread]

Can you try playing online using the LAN mode with Xlink Maskrider?

www.teamxlink.com

Will try later as I need to go out with my family.

Great! I'll look forward to your impressions later. :D

[McFly]

From Maskrider @ GA:

People who likes the sound tracks will love GT4's Music Theatre

http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-musictheater.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-musictheater-menu.jpg

And some screens of the big GT mode map.

http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-gtmode-1.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-gtmode-2.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-gtmode-3.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-gtmode-4.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-gtmode-5.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-gtmode-6.jpg
http://z-o-g.org/imgs/gt4/gt4-gtmode-7.jpg


Fredi

[cthellis42]

Video mode would still switch to 1080I - which is something you can actually check on your HDTV. You can't check the actual pixel size, but as long as it looks sharper then regular NTSC(which hypothetical 720x960 would), what else is there for a user to assume?
Color me confused, but since the dimensions are way off (720x960 versus 1080x1920) wouldn't upscaling bring about some noticable visual warping effects, or include sidebars or the like? Or is it that people would assume it's not widescreen, and that the machine was delivering 1080x1440 (the direct ratio) and not be able finely measure the pixel size?



Maskrider, I think you have some testing to perform! :P :wink:

[-tkf-]

Or is it that people would assume it's not widescreen, and that the machine was delivering 1080x1440 (the direct ratio) and not be able finely measure the pixel size?



Maskrider, I think you have some testing to perform! :P :wink:

Well do you have anamorphic in HD? as far as i know you don't.

[Cryect]

Color me confused, but since the dimensions are way off (720x960 versus 1080x1920) wouldn't upscaling bring about some noticable visual warping effects, or include sidebars or the like? Or is it that people would assume it's not widescreen, and that the machine was delivering 1080x1440 (the direct ratio) and not be able finely measure the pixel size?

Well horizontal resolution doesn't matter since its an analog signal so there would be no sidebars. Also its likely its really 1080i lines being outputted since otherwise a lot of things would complain if it was getting a 960i signal.

Well do you have anamorphic in HD? as far as i know you don't.

Well of course you do and you don't. For analog signals the aspect ratio is whatever the device interprets it as (720p and 1080i are assumed to be 16:9 but most devices will let you adjust of course). If its DVI though the pixels are square though most devices again will let you squash the pixels horizontally.

[AbbA]

http://www.thrillinghill.com/gallery/albums/album217/480p_versus_1080i_2.sized.jpg

[cthellis42]

Bigger images. BIGGER IMAGES!

Oh yes, and lots of high quality video!

GET TO WORK! :wink: :wink: :P

[Iron Tiger]

When I first saw the specs of the PS2, I didn't even think of the 4MB EDRAM as texture memory like everyone else did (including most developers, apparently), but as pure framebuffer. With that amount and the incredible bandwidth, some amazing effects could be pulled off by buffering frames to that, and using the "system memory" (pretty fast, too) for textures, z-buffer, etc. It'd work similarly to Turbo Cache/ Hyper Memory. I think 1080i frames could be done this way, but I don't know about doing it with buffer effects like DoF.

[AbbA]

http://www.capitalautorentalservices.com/gt4.avi ;)

[Citan]

Anybody got a rip of the intro video up yet?

[london-boy]

http://www.thrillinghill.com/gallery/albums/album217/480p_versus_1080i_2.sized.jpg

Seeing the difference between a 480p image and a 1080i one when the pictures are downsampled to 320x240 is not exactly easy. In fact, they just look the same. :twisted:

[Cryect]

Seeing the difference between a 480p image and a 1080i one when the pictures are downsampled to 320x240 is not exactly easy. In fact, they just look the same. :twisted:

Try this
http://www.thrillinghill.com/gallery/albums/album217/480p_versus_1080i_2.jpg

I would have to say it looks like all the textures are about half the res in 1080i at first glance it seems like.

Edit: Oh but all the edges look much nicer though in 1080i

[Fafalada]

I would have to say it looks like all the textures are about half the res in 1080i at first glance it seems like.
Edit: Oh but all the edges look much nicer though in 1080i
Can't say I honestly see any difference in textures.
What I do see though - look closer - horizontal pixel size is the same on both images, resolution only increases vertically, like we speculated.

I'm curious now if they flatout use 640x960I, or some other setting, but it seems pretty safe to say both modes use same size backbuffers.

[-tkf-]

I would have to say it looks like all the textures are about half the res in 1080i at first glance it seems like.
Edit: Oh but all the edges look much nicer though in 1080i
Can't say I honestly see any difference in textures.
What I do see though - look closer - horizontal pixel size is the same on both images, resolution only increases vertically, like we speculated.

I'm curious now if they flatout use 640x960I, or some other setting, but it seems pretty safe to say both modes use same size backbuffers.

Could you explain how this works?

How does a 640x960i scale to a 1920x1080i image within the PS2?

[Crazyace]

TV standards ( analogue ones in particular ) are specced in terms of horizontal and vertical timings and pixel clocks ( normally capped by B/W )

It is pretty simple to set the display hardware for a TV standard such as 720p
or 1080i ( 1080 by 1920 pixels ) but only generate 640 or 960 pixels... the same thing occured with older consoles ( 320 pixels for PS1 and Genesis, 256
pixels for SNES )

As people have said before, if you are generating a 640x480 (480p) framebuffer, it isn't much of a step to generate a 640x540 frame buffer to display with 3x horizontal mag as 1080i.

As many HDTV devices dont actually have horizontal resolutions anywhere near 1920 anyway it's a nice added feature for GT4

[Mintmaster]

Could you explain how this works?

How does a 640x960i scale to a 1920x1080i image within the PS2?
I think he's proposing that the PS2 renders at 640 or 720 pixels across regardless of whether it's in 480p or 1080i mode, but the vertical resolution does increase slightly. 640x1080i would mean a 640x540 image rendered every 60th of a second, and 640x480p would mean a 640x480 image every 60th of a second. Less than 13% fillrate increase, so it's definately possible without lag. It's probably easier to do this than manually scale it.

As for the horizontal scaling, that's not an issue at all. The info is transmitted to the TV in analog scanlines, so basically the TV is doing the scaling. It's just not getting a signal of as high frequency (1920 pix per line) as it could handle.

[Deepak]

And that 5.1 is what? DPLII/DD5.1 or some customised 5.1 sound?

[emacs]

Anybody got a rip of the intro video up yet?

midway down the page over at http://www.hinjang.com/media.html

[maskrider]

Anybody got a rip of the intro video up yet?

midway down the page over at http://www.hinjang.com/media.html

It was ripped by me.

Or
http://www.gamesmediamirror.com/news_1240_en.html

Or
http://www.gtplanet.net/index.php?categoryid=31&p13_fileid=137

[maskrider]

And that 5.1 is what? DPLII/DD5.1 or some customised 5.1 sound?

DPL II for in-game, DD 5.1 for opening movie.

[london-boy]

DPL2 is not 5.1 anyway so that should have been clear.

[max-pain]

Dolby Pro Logic II

http://dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html

[london-boy]

Dolby Pro Logic II

http://dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html

I'm just very skeptical. If it could really provide true 5.1 sound from just 2 sources, it would have been used instead of DD & DTS on DVD movies.

[-tkf-]

It was ripped by me.



Yeah, you have done a fantastic job on this release, a million screenshots/grabs several replays etc etc...

Kudos...

Of course i wouldn't be a internet user if i didn't ask for more :-)

"Ingame" movies for example replays from inside the cars seem to be rare, especially from real racing tracks like LeMans and Nurnburg.

Replays looks amazing but incar shows some of the games dynamics.

In any case, thanks for all the info..

[Cryect]

Dolby Pro Logic II

http://dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html

I'm just very skeptical. If it could really provide true 5.1 sound from just 2 sources, it would have been used instead of DD & DTS on DVD movies.

I used to be skeptical, but it works amazingly well. The crazy part I found was when watching anime it almost always gets the rear voices seperated from front voices so if someone should be talking behind you then you hear it behind you. That amazed pretty early on. It also good at determining what is the music and seperating it to all the channels as well.

Really till you try it's hard to believe it works as well as it does.

Also, I would definately say DD5.1 or DTS is preferred over DPLII but without hardware compression its a little too much for this generation of consoles. And no reason for DVD movies not to use DD5.1 or DTS over DPLII especially considering for the movie theaters they generate a DD5.1 or DTS soundtrack.

[PowerK]

Dolby Pro Logic II

http://dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html

I'm just very skeptical. If it could really provide true 5.1 sound from just 2 sources, it would have been used instead of DD & DTS on DVD movies.
You obviously never heard of Lexicon's Logic7. :)

[london-boy]

Dolby Pro Logic II

http://dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html

I'm just very skeptical. If it could really provide true 5.1 sound from just 2 sources, it would have been used instead of DD & DTS on DVD movies.
You obviously never heard of Lexicon's Logic7. :)

.... No.

[McFly]

You don't have a HDTV TV but a good computer monitor? Look what I found: http://www.sigmacom.co.kr/eng/m1/m1_view.htm?no=5#none

I think about getting one ... just for GT4. ;)

Now the question of course is ... will this work with the PAL version of GT4?

Fredi

[Citan]

Anybody got a rip of the intro video up yet?

midway down the page over at http://www.hinjang.com/media.html

It was ripped by me.



awsomeness


thank you

[Farid]

Now the question of course is ... will this work with the PAL version of GT4?
:lol: Guess!

[marconelly!]

DPL2 is not 5.1 anyway so that should have been clear.
DPL2 is technically 5.0, and the subwoofer is automatically activated whenever there's a bass sound deep enough to be played on it.

Now, don't get me wrong, DPL2 is not perfectly, cleanly digitally separated multichannel sound like DD5.1 or DTS, but it does a damn good job regardless, and you hear a positional sound just like the people who encoded it intended you to.

If you want to go into details, not even DD5.1 or DTS are *perfect* - both use lossy compression.

[emacs]

Anybody got a rip of the intro video up yet?

midway down the page over at http://www.hinjang.com/media.html

It was ripped by me.

Or
http://www.gamesmediamirror.com/news_1240_en.html

Or
http://www.gtplanet.net/index.php?categoryid=31&p13_fileid=137

thanks for your efforts.

one question: was the initial copy taken directly from the demultiplexed pss file or was it done indirectly through your display device (i.e., lcd, plasma or crt)? thanks.

[maskrider]

thanks for your efforts.

one question: was the initial copy taken directly from the demultiplexed pss file or was it done indirectly through your display device (i.e., lcd, plasma or crt)? thanks.

I recorded it off the PS2 S-Video output with my USB MPEG-2 encoder. I didn't read it off the game disc.

[emacs]

thanks for your efforts.

one question: was the initial copy taken directly from the demultiplexed pss file or was it done indirectly through your display device (i.e., lcd, plasma or crt)? thanks.

I recorded it off the PS2 S-Video output with my USB MPEG-2 encoder. I didn't read it off the game disc.

okay, thanks for the info. i asked this because i grabbed the GT3 A-Spec intro directly from the source and was rather surprised it was sampled at 640 x 224 (or was it 244, can't remember exactly, but i do recall it was at some strange aspect ratio). anyway, i'll be getting my NTSC-J copy of GT4 in about a week or so. thanks again for your contributions over at gtplanet.net

[pahcman]

DD5.1 rocks.
Soundstorm rocks Xbox (and PC).
Like someone said, MS over engineered Xbox.
Let hope Sony can get DICE license and Nvidia put Soundstorm2 into PS3 and not SPU3.. :D

[Nappe1]

DD5.1 rocks.
Soundstorm rocks Xbox (and PC).
Like someone said, MS over engineered Xbox.
Let hope Sony can get DICE license and Nvidia put Soundstorm2 into PS3 and not SPU3.. :D


DD 5.1 is okay. But as being lossy, no use of using it in multichannel recordings that have high dynamic range in all channels. the bitrates aren't enough. (72 men symphony orchestra recording from the middle of the instruments, for example.)


and what comes to Dolby Pro Logic 2, it is doward compliant with DPL 1 and the oldest Dolby's surround systems: Dolby Surround. Last one is already more than 20 years old and with Pro Logic, it was pretty much standard even in theathers, before discrete digital channels replaced the old "optical sound" used all way near to begining of movies with audio track.

Surround / Pro Logic / Pr Logic 2 ain't bad, as long as you have correctly set up speakers. (In Surround: 3 speakers (Left, Right, Effect/Rear). In Pro Logic: 4 speakers (Left, Right, Effect and Center). In Pro Logic 2: 5 Speakers (Left, Right, Effect Left, Effect Right and Center). LFE (Low Frequency Effect) is done in all with Low pass filter from combination of two input channels.

Latest add-on to this series is DPL 2 EX, which adds both side speakers, which basically should expand the sound even more. I haven't yet tested this though.

In any case, Dolby Surround was originally planned to be a way to encode 3 channels to 2 analog channels. of course because this is done with Signal Processing (directing certain kind of parts of signal on different speakers) it can't be as exact as using discrete channels. Nowadays, when using discrete channels is become possible (thanks highre compression algorithms and more powerful and cheaper processing units) Pro Logic has been a become way to expand audio fields from sources that were originally just planned to be 2 channels or even mono. (anyone remembers Dolby Stereo?) And that why Dolby has continued developing also this older standard.

[DeathKnight]

Now, don't get me wrong, DPL2 is not perfectly, cleanly digitally separated multichannel sound like DD5.1 or DTS, but it does a damn good job regardless, and you hear a positional sound just like the people who encoded it intended you to.
With a proper setup and good equipment there is a very large disparity between PLII and DD5.1/DTS. IMO PLII really isn't that great at all, and I've had extensive listening time with my setup. PLII doesn't do it for me and I'm definately not impressed no matter how good some people swear it sounds.

[McFly]

The Sauber in the green hell: http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2S8T2IYIU5OHN3POGU3XCD6SZW

:shock:

5:34!

Fredi

[Phil]

maskrider:

thanks for the impressions and media you've supplied! :) I do have one question though - how is the image quality on 480p (or 1080i) compared to GT4Prologue? Is the flickering still as bad or is it less noticable?

thanks in advance!

[maskrider]

maskrider:

thanks for the impressions and media you've supplied! :) I do have one question though - how is the image quality on 480p (or 1080i) compared to GT4Prologue? Is the flickering still as bad or is it less noticable?

thanks in advance!

The bulk of stuffs that I've done are indeed at GTPlanet.net
(e.g. translation of the screens, available cars, etc)

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52733

There is flickering in any mode, looks to me the CRT controller messed up the field orders occassionally, don't know why.

The look of the game has improved over prologue IMHO, I think the release version is a nice cleanup of all the previous released ones.

[-tkf-]

The Sauber in the green hell: http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2S8T2IYIU5OHN3POGU3XCD6SZW

:shock:

5:34!

Fredi

Mirror.. has to be seen:
http://s11.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3QO39247P2VTH1BP997YPOTP8B

Fastest time on the real circiut: 6:11 in a Porsche 956 in 1983.

One thing that is clear from the video, no life was at risk :-)

[Mintmaster]

With a proper setup and good equipment there is a very large disparity between PLII and DD5.1/DTS. IMO PLII really isn't that great at all, and I've had extensive listening time with my setup. PLII doesn't do it for me and I'm definately not impressed no matter how good some people swear it sounds.
I would expect there to be a larger difference on poor equipment, honestly. DD5.1/DTS has 5 (+1) discrete channels encoded, and I don't see why even the cheapest decoder chip would do anything but decode all this information. PLII, however, has some sophisticated algorithms for determining where the sound is coming from, and how to separate it. Poor equipment/setup really shouldn't affect DD5.1 any more than PLII.

As for you not being impressed by PLII, you must be listening to some complicated surround sources (e.g. multiple spatially directed sounds). I was testing my surround setup a few days ago (just got a new reciever), and was scanning DVD's for good examples of directionally localized sound. The PLII decoder was quite close to the DD5.1, much to my surprise.

All things considered, I'm quite impressed with the technology, especially considering how much it enhances our two channel broadcasting infrastructure while still being backwards compatible.

[HappyBread]

The Sauber in the green hell: http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2S8T2IYIU5OHN3POGU3XCD6SZW

:shock:

5:34!

Fredi

Mirror.. has to be seen:
http://s11.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3QO39247P2VTH1BP997YPOTP8B

Fastest time on the real circiut: 6:11 in a Porsche 956 in 1983.

One thing that is clear from the video, no life was at risk :-)

Very fast... with the driving aids on. :( And wasn't that 6:11 done on the track with the extra miles of track?

http://img70.exs.cx/img70/483/nur7ps.jpg

The GT4 track goes right (corner above the start + finish) where as the lap record was set on the full track as the Nurburgring 1000km uses the Formula One pit garages. I could be wrong but it would explain the huge gap in time.

[-tkf-]

And wasn't that 6:11 done on the track with the extra miles of track?




Nope:

Stefan Bellof (D) Porsche 956 1983-05-28, 1000km Rennen 20.832 km, 202.073 km/h,6:11:130

http://nurburgring.de/?rubrik=rekorde&lang=eng

[Coupon]

PLII 5.1 is discreet like DD5.1

Don't confuse Encoded PLII with Non Encoded PLII

Encoded PLII 5.1 takes a true discreete 5.1 sound source and uses some neato matrix/phase/etc processing trickery to make it fit in a high quality 2 channel carrier.

Then, the PLII Decoder reverses the process giving you true 5.1 sound.

It doesn't sound as good as DD5.1 for a few reasons.

1. The matrix/phase/etc processing stuff causes some anomolies even though PLII does a good job at clearing them up.

2. It is more lossy than DD5.1 or DTS.

3. It isn't DD5.1 or DTS

4. Encoded PLII only sounds as good as the encoding process lets it sound.

However, I assume PD and Sony are using the best equipment, processing, engineers, in the world for GT4.

I would expect Encoded PLIIx to sound even better, possibly on par with DD5.1 (MGS3 and a few GameCube games have PLIIx material)
However, a PLIIx reciever can turn DD5.1 into 7.1 so DD is probably still a little better. Except maybe for the stereo rears.


*Edit*
Atleast that is what I understand Encoded PLII, PLI, PLIIx, to be. If this is not the case please clarify! I mean, why else would encoded PL material exists?

[Inane_Dork]

Nevermind.